What will D-Dom do before the trade deadline?

Hm, whaddayall think?

  • Stand Pat 1. Go through the season with the roster as it is today until rosters expand

    Votes: 9 4.4%
  • Stand Pat 2. Release Pablo, Peralta and bring up Devers before expansion

    Votes: 55 27.0%
  • Stand Pat 3. BROCK HOLT!!!! to the rescue

    Votes: 18 8.8%
  • Trade for a 3rd baseman

    Votes: 55 27.0%
  • Trade for bullpen help

    Votes: 65 31.9%
  • Trade for starting pitching....EdRod isn't coming back this season....

    Votes: 2 1.0%

  • Total voters
    204

Minneapolis Millers

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Jesus. We're not Steinbrenner's MFYs. Money isn't unlimited. Deal with it.

We need the Killer B's to start killin' it. We need Price and Porcello to remember they're really good. The only injuries we have left to deal with (after getting Nunez) are in the pen. Get an arm and wait for your guys to get it going again. We're not going to buy more bats to replace the ones that are temporarily (we hope) struggling.
 

geoduck no quahog

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Kintzler being made available should help push the price down on relievers with more supply.

I think they are done on offense. I could be wrong but I think Hanley at 1B with Devers DH'ing is the plan. Unless it's something substantially better than what they would produce, which is doubtful.
Hanley is a sucky first baseman. Moreland makes every infielder better. Nunez is a sucky third baseman without the potential upside of Devers. This is why I think the optimal situation (today) is Moreland at first (the designated Marrero), Devers at third (the designated Benintendi) and Ramirez as DH (the designated hitter). I don't see Nunez replacing Moreland as a winning move.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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He's a roughly 2 WAR player. BA and HR totals aren't indicative of actual value. Also, those three arb. years start following him making $13.3M in 2016 and $10.8M in 2017 (he has a player option to turn it into a guaranteed 3 year/$34M contract). He'll likely see arb. awards in the mid-teens all three seasons, maybe topping out in the high teens by the end of it, and that'll come when he's in his early 30's.
Sorry, this isn't accurate. He's already in arbitration. He exercised a contract clause to enter into his first season of arbitration this year. He will be 2nd year arbitration next season.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/american-league/chicago-white-sox/
 

geoduck no quahog

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I'm perplexed you feel this way because it is so far from my impression of Moreland this year. I feel he rarely makes the play on a throw that's off. I'm curious as to what others see.
Yes, me too. Part of my feeling is based on reputation, but - I've watched every Red Sox game this season and for me he passes the eye test, particularly on scoops...and particularly on Bogaertsian throws.

But I'm also curious what others think.
 

JohntheBaptist

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Jesus. We're not Steinbrenner's MFYs. Money isn't unlimited. Deal with it.

We need the Killer B's to start killin' it. We need Price and Porcello to remember they're really good. The only injuries we have left to deal with (after getting Nunez) are in the pen. Get an arm and wait for your guys to get it going again. We're not going to buy more bats to replace the ones that are temporarily (we hope) struggling.
That last part here was a nice Sosh pep talk, but considering this is year one of a window created by trading away the farm, in part to get a pitcher that is giving you one of his precious few career years, are you comfortable in the notion that Ramirez and Moreland will actually contribute something? That this isn't just who Betts, Bradley, Bogaerts, Vazquez, and Leon are, more or less? That someone will step up and actually hit for some power, which the rest of the league is doing at record shattering HR rates? That the obvious upgrade in a trade for a bat wouldn't be worth the bargain basement prices on the market?

If so, why?
 

grimshaw

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Yes, me too. Part of my feeling is based on reputation, but - I've watched every Red Sox game this season and for me he passes the eye test, particularly on scoops...and particularly on Bogaertsian throws.

But I'm also curious what others think.
There is in fact a "scoops" stat and he is tied for 16th. He has 12 in 91 games. Hanley had 19 in 133 games last year. 3rd base was pretty awful with throwing errors early on, so I don't think he's been all that great in that regard. He has been a lot better in other years which is probably part of what led to his good reputation.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=0&season=2017&month=0&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=16,d
 
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Devizier

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I wonder if the Sox might be interested in the Alonso discussions. It's complicated by the fact that the MFYs are already apparently engaged with the Athletics, and that Billy Beane is going to get his pound of flesh in return. But it can't hurt to inquire. The Donaldson trade certainly did not work out for the A's.
 

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I wonder if the Sox might be interested in the Alonso discussions. It's complicated by the fact that the MFYs are already apparently engaged with the Athletics, and that Billy Beane is going to get his pound of flesh in return. But it can't hurt to inquire. The Donaldson trade certainly did not work out for the A's.
What in the world does the 2014 Donaldson trade have to do with 30 year old Yonder Alonso, having a career year? Beane has made plenty of trades since then, including this month.
Speaking of Alonso, he scares the crap out of me. I don't know what he's suddenly figured out, but he could regress back into a pumpkin any day now.
 

CurtieLeskanic

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Apr 28, 2014
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I'm perplexed you feel this way because it is so far from my impression of Moreland this year. I feel he rarely makes the play on a throw that's off. I'm curious as to what others see.
From watching Mitch this year he does play like an above average 1B and that's pretty much how the stats shake out. He's been great at the routine plays (98%), very very good with the likely plays (88% while the average is around a 75%). He's top half in the MLB in DRS and UZR but not a world beater status where his lack of offensive production can be completely ignored. I see Mitch being given the month of August to turn his season around before the rosters expand and Sam Travis is given an opportunity to dethrone Mitch. Travis has shown in his short time up here that he can handle MLB pitching. His defense is the key factor in more playing time (if MM cannot get out of his funk). Unfortunately his numbers are creeping towards being eerily similar to his bad offensive numbers in 2016.
 

bosockboy

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Hanley is a sucky first baseman. Moreland makes every infielder better. Nunez is a sucky third baseman without the potential upside of Devers. This is why I think the optimal situation (today) is Moreland at first (the designated Marrero), Devers at third (the designated Benintendi) and Ramirez as DH (the designated hitter). I don't see Nunez replacing Moreland as a winning move.
Sure but can we continue with Moreland's bat?
He's been Cesar Crespo for like a month.
 

MikeM

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The only thing I can conclude here is that Dombrowski didn't want Duda, because a future 7th-inning reliever, which is what the Rays gave up, is something we have an abundance of in our farm system.
This.

It certainly couldn't have been the $$$, since Duda's pro-rate wasn't putting us in estimate danger of going over the LT. This ownership isn't blinking at a couple extra million dollars on the season otherwise.
 

MikeM

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Based on the bats moved so far this deadline it is going to be nowhere near that amount.
The number 6 prospect in baseball is not going to be moved for a non elite expensive first baseman. He's going to be paid well over 10 million in arbitration and is on par with Duda offensively.

Prospects like that get moved for cost controlled starting pitchers. Doubt Groome would be needed either.
I'd be absolutely shocked if they traded Devers period at this point. Given he's one of the few legit middle of the order power prospect types we've had in like forever, with a MLB roster that is all but screaming for one and has the position/s open to boot. He's DD's pure keeper guy imo.

If anything I'd honestly even go as far as to suggest that Xander, in a preemptive strike against the new CBA, has a better chance of being dealt in some crazy shakeup blockbuster then Devers atm (sorry Al Zarilla).
 

streeter88

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I'd be absolutely shocked if they traded Devers period at this point. Given he's one of the few legit middle of the order power prospect types we've had in like forever, with a MLB roster that is all but screaming for one and has the position/s open to boot. He's DD's pure keeper guy imo.
Gawd I hope so. Would be utterly tragic if Devers is traded now, when he is right on the cusp of something really good at a position of great need.
 

Al Zarilla

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I'd be absolutely shocked if they traded Devers period at this point. Given he's one of the few legit middle of the order power prospect types we've had in like forever, with a MLB roster that is all but screaming for one and has the position/s open to boot. He's DD's pure keeper guy imo.

If anything I'd honestly even go as far as to suggest that Xander, in a preemptive strike against the new CBA, has a better chance of being dealt in some crazy shakeup blockbuster then Devers atm (sorry Al Zarilla).
Whoa, how did I get into this? No way I'd want Devers traded (well, everybody has a price but he fills an exact need, actually two, 3B and a power bat). As for Bogey, I think Sox management probably feels he'll bounce back like he has before, so he's the SS for the foreseeable future.
 

MikeM

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Whoa, how did I get into this? No way I'd want Devers traded (well, everybody has a price but he fills an exact need, actually two, 3B and a power bat). As for Bogey, I think Sox management probably feels he'll bounce back like he has before, so he's the SS for the foreseeable future.
Referencing a response you made to me last week in the Gammons thread.

Was also just pointing out there that other then dipping into the B's, with Xander probably making the most overall sense in that respect, I just don't see where else the trade chip on our end that makes a blockbuster even possible would be coming from. It wouldn't be Devers before one of those other guys not named Mookie either imo.

Abreu makes sense on the surface in that he shouldn't cost us a Xander type sacrifice, but beyond that I just don't see a good match for us being there given Chicago doesn't seem to be aggressively shopping him around atm (meaning they probably want way more then we'd think he's worth, and Groome+ isn't getting it done).
 

j44thor

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Sure but can we continue with Moreland's bat?
He's been Cesar Crespo for like a month.
I really don't understand why they are treating Moreland like a 10yr vet on the team and giving him so much rope.
He isn't signed beyond this year and his post ASB OPS is .281, not is OBP his OPS.
He is also striking out in over 1/3 of his ABs during that stretch.

Sure it is SSS but the eye test should tell you something is wrong, he hasn't hit a ball hard for a month. We need not only a short term fix but a long term solution at the position since they don't appear to think Sam Travis can give them that.
 

SouthernBoSox

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I really don't understand why they are treating Moreland like a 10yr vet on the team and giving him so much rope.
He isn't signed beyond this year and his post ASB OPS is .281, not is OBP his OPS.
He is also striking out in over 1/3 of his ABs during that stretch.

Sure it is SSS but the eye test should tell you something is wrong, he hasn't hit a ball hard for a month. We need not only a short term fix but a long term solution at the position since they don't appear to think Sam Travis can give them that.
Simply put, there is 0% chance they win the division with this first base production going forward. Period end of story.
 

nighthob

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Any chance that MLB will let Boston assign the DH to the 1B position? Because at this point in time the pitchers hitting would be an upgrade on Moreland. ;)
 

Zososoxfan

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Well, except for the little fact that that's bullcrap.
It's a bit hyperbolic, but not really that far off. If all the question marks start coming up roses (3B production, X, Tendi, etc.), then yeah, this team can support a flailing MM. If things continue trending the way they have the last month, then no, MM will very much be part of the problem that potentially takes the Sox out of the playoffs. It's likely the team picks up the hitting a bit, but it's also possible they don't and if it does improve, not by a huge margin. Replacing Mitchy's bat is the easiest low cost non-committal way to make this team better.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Me too. And it's already happening.
wRC+ by month.
April 133
May 217
June 115
July 104
Since the break 84.

Career 107
And this arc correlates exactly with a reversal of his big flyball approach breakthrough. His GB/FB percentages by month:

GB%/FB%
April 27.5/49.0
May 24.5/57.1
June 28.1/46.9
July 51.0/31.4

Whoops. Whether this means that he's abandoned the flyball approach for some reason, or that pitchers have figured out how to defeat it, who knows, but I don't want that July guy, and if we trade for him, that's presumably who we're getting.
 

chawson

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Do we need a starter now?

Doug Fister should be pronounced done as a major league starter. Besides Brian Johnson's brilliant game against the Mariners, he's been serviceable at best. Hector Velazquez has thrown 12.2 decent innings (FIP -78) since his clunker of a MLB debut against the A's. I wouldn't be psyched to hand him the job but he's our best in-house option. (Every few months I remember that we theoretically employ Roenis Elias, the 2014-15 Mariners version of whom would be perfect for this scenario.)

The Twins are reportedly shopping Jaime Garcia after dropping four straight since they acquired him. He cost them their 14th best prospect, 19-year-old RHP starter Huascar Ynoa.
 

CurtieLeskanic

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Do we need a starter now?

Doug Fister should be pronounced done as a major league starter. Besides Brian Johnson's brilliant game against the Mariners, he's been serviceable at best. Hector Velazquez has thrown 12.2 decent innings (FIP -78) since his clunker of a MLB debut against the A's. I wouldn't be psyched to hand him the job but he's our best in-house option. (Every few months I remember that we theoretically employ Roenis Elias, the 2014-15 Mariners version of whom would be perfect for this scenario.)

The Twins are reportedly shopping Jaime Garcia after dropping four straight since they acquired him. He cost them their 14th best prospect, 19-year-old RHP starter Huascar Ynoa.
I would imagine starting pitcher is now definitely on the radar, though I don't necessarily have the appetite for it. With this news and with the current pieces off the board, I think it's best to stay put and see if this team can win it (yikes).

Get a bullpen arm or possibly Garcia if they're shopping him to build depth, and go for it. Any blockbusters are going to give me a heart attack now, and potential depression in 4 years.
 

DeadlySplitter

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with the 4 days off in 2 weeks after this homestand, if they determine Price's injury isn't that severe they could survive on a 4 man rotation for quite a bit. at the same time you probably want to give guys as many extra days as you can.

they probably had the MRI done hush-hush yesterday to determine the severity and assess the potential need with 3 days to go. I don't think they'll go get a starter but who knows
 

grimshaw

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Do we need a starter now?

Doug Fister should be pronounced done as a major league starter. Besides Brian Johnson's brilliant game against the Mariners, he's been serviceable at best. Hector Velazquez has thrown 12.2 decent innings (FIP -78) since his clunker of a MLB debut against the A's. I wouldn't be psyched to hand him the job but he's our best in-house option. (Every few months I remember that we theoretically employ Roenis Elias, the 2014-15 Mariners version of whom would be perfect for this scenario.)

The Twins are reportedly shopping Jaime Garcia after dropping four straight since they acquired him. He cost them their 14th best prospect, 19-year-old RHP starter Huascar Ynoa.
I prefer Velazquez of that group, but think it'll be Johnson tonight. I wouldn't be shocked if Beeks gets added to the 40 man since he's rule 5 eligible this off season. He just pitched the other day, but he could slot in next start.

Garcia is generally not very good, so I hope they don't go that route.
They also have a ton of off days so can skip 5th starters on occasion. I know they want to rest Sale when they can, but this here's a pennant race.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I doubt very much that Price's injury changes Dombrowski's calculus (whatever it may be). He's not going after a starter in the next few days. I mean, is there even one worth pursuing that won't put the team over the luxury tax threshold? I've already seen mention of Verlander and Ervin Santana being out there, but those guys are expensive as hell without even factoring in cost in prospects.
 

chawson

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I doubt very much that Price's injury changes Dombrowski's calculus (whatever it may be). He's not going after a starter in the next few days. I mean, is there even one worth pursuing that won't put the team over the luxury tax threshold? I've already seen mention of Verlander and Ervin Santana being out there, but those guys are expensive as hell without even factoring in cost in prospects.
Fwiw, we'd be on the hook for around $4.55m of Garcia's $12.5m if no money changes hands. Yankees apparently also looking at him.
 

MikeM

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Price going down really hurts this team, and is just going to help highlight some really questionable outside decision making by DD with us poised to take an absolute beating as a deadline losers here.

We need more then a utility spot upgrade. Hope he pulls something out of the hat over the next few days.
 

RIrooter09

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I hope this is subject to change if Price is going to be out long-term.
Do we really want to throw assets at rentals? Even if we replace Price's production, the offense is not good enough to carry this team deep into the playoffs. Improving both the lineup and rotation enough to compete with Houston doesn't seem realistic without completely gutting the system, and we might not have the assets to do it. I say roll with what we have and hope for bounce backs from Xander, Moreland, etc. Missing out on Duda for basically nothing is very frustrating, but perhaps they already knew about Price's injury and are choosing to stand pat.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Price going down really hurts this team, and is just going to help highlight some really questionable outside decision making by DD with us poised to take an absolute beating as a deadline losers here.

We need more then a utility spot upgrade. Hope he pulls something out of the hat over the next few days.
We upgraded 3b with Devers if he sticks around. I wonder if we see Jalen Beeks anytime soon.
 

grimshaw

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If Lance Lynn fell in their lap, I wouldn't kick him off it. Otherwise, I'm fine with them staying pat on the pitching front.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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If Price is seriously hurt (and it wouldn't shock me to see him moved to the 60 day DL on Tuesday or Wednesday and have an announcement of impending TJ surgery later in the week), I don't think buying more pieces is the way to go. You ride it out and hope that internal options emerge and are enough to get you to the playoffs and that you get hot in October.

Replacing Price effectively while also plugging the hole in the bullpen will take them over the threshold this year, and if your second best starter is out for the year, that's just not worth it.

I suppose if Dombrowski is 100% he won't be in on any QO free agents, it's possible to go over, but even then, it would have to be for a pitcher who comes off the payroll since they need to be under when 2018 ends if they are going to take advantage of the stacked class following that season.

I just don't see it.
 

Al Zarilla

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Referencing a response you made to me last week in the Gammons thread.
I meant to say that I think the 4 Bs are pretty much untouchable, and Xander is very close to the other 3 because management has to assume, at 24, 25 next year, he can return to the player that put up a 4.3 fWAR in 2015 and 4.7 in 2016. Plus, if he were gone, there'd be a gaping hole at shortstop. Defensively, Fangraphs has him in the upper half of MLB qualified shortstops, if defense is the beef with him. If it's offense, again, why shouldn't he return to somewhere near the prior two years levels?

If Price is not right for months, or worse, we're in trouble, and I hope DD doesn't trade any of the 4 Bs, or Devers. This could suck bad if you consider we're in a 3 year window thing.
 

MikeM

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I really don't understand why they are treating Moreland like a 10yr vet on the team and giving him so much rope.
He isn't signed beyond this year and his post ASB OPS is .281, not is OBP his OPS.
He is also striking out in over 1/3 of his ABs during that stretch.

Sure it is SSS but the eye test should tell you something is wrong, he hasn't hit a ball hard for a month. We need not only a short term fix but a long term solution at the position since they don't appear to think Sam Travis can give them that.
I've struggled trying to rationalize this lately too.

On one hand I can comprehend the human element likely involved anytime you sit down and negotiate a 1 year contract with an established starting vet. In that some general assurances are probably made on our behalf where the team isn't coming off as some ruthless bottom-line-only cutthroat, and with the long term benefits of mostly living up to that good faith outweighing the short term perspectives that may pop up as a result.

On the other hand the market on firstbaseman was complete crap last winter, and I have a hard time buying in to some of the feel good after-the-fact claims that Moreland might have taken less to sign here. So it's not like he'd have gotten completely screwed there, given how a lot of other guys saw their markets go.
 

tonyarmasjr

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A Sale/Pomeranz/EdRo/Porcello/NotFister rotation is certainly strong enough to go through the regular season. And taking your pick of the hottest or handedness of the middle three for a playoff series lines you up well against anybody. Now, if Porcello sucks or EdRo gets hurt, you're in a tough spot, but that's the case for any team any time. You can't just keep adding quality starting pitchers without replacing somebody. Porcello has been the worst of the top 4, and he's gone through July averaging 7 IP and 2 ER in his 4 starts...with an 0-3 record. Starting pitching isn't an area of need. Even whoever you could find as a rental would only be a slightly marginal upgrade over Velazquez/Johnson/Elias/Beeks/NotFister. It doesn't make any sense to go out and spend assets on another starter, especially if there's the possibility of Price returning.
 

grimshaw

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The thing is - Moreland hadn't really earned much if any cache coming into this season. He has had one season with a WAR over 1 and 1 full season with a wRC+ over league average which happened to be two years ago. I'm willing to bet no team was going to offer him as many at bats as the Red Sox were.

He might bounce back a little, but this is essentially what he has been, more often than not. They don't owe him anything - he was paid market value.
 

tims4wins

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well it would at least help fill the perceived leadership void. On the flip side he is likely to OPS more like 700 going forward
 

BaseballJones

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I hope this is subject to change if Price is going to be out long-term.
I think that unless a decent upgrade comes cheap (which is unlikely), then the best move is to stay the course and ride it out with Sale, Pomeranz, Porcello, Rodriguez, and someone else. It's really the offense that needs significant improvement. I hope they addressed that with Devers, though I don't want to put too much in that basket.

It sure would be nice to have a quality guy in AAA to throw into the mix right about now. Or it would be really nice if Fister was actually decent instead of automatic batting practice.
 

chawson

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I suppose if Dombrowski is 100% he won't be in on any QO free agents, it's possible to go over, but even then, it would have to be for a pitcher who comes off the payroll since they need to be under when 2018 ends if they are going to take advantage of the stacked class following that season.
Barring trades or injury, it's hard to see anyone from that stacked 2018 FA class reasonably fitting on our team. Long-term control over Devers, Bogaerts, Pedroia, and the three outfield Bs blocks a lot of players, and the pitchers are worrisome.

The silver lining of Aaron Judge becoming "the new face of baseball" is that we'll have a better chance of landing Bryce Harper. But if he wants to chase records, he's gonna hit up the bidet's short porch.
 

Rasputin

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If first base puts up a .281 OPS they won't win the division. Period. You wanna put money on it?
1) First base isn't going to put up a .281 OPS.
2) You know it.
3) Even if it did, it wouldn't single-handedly tank the season.
4) You should know that based on third base and first place.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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I doubt the team is considering any moves that will make this applicable for them this year, but this is a fairly large development in the CBA with regard to the luxury tax. It probably rules out Verlander, though, as his salary would make it tougher to keep under that $237M next year if they want to plug other holes in the winter or upgrade a spot (like 1st).

But the penalties really kick in for a team that spends more than $237 million in 2018. Not only will the franchise be hit with a 42.5 percent or 45 percent surcharge tax on top of the competitive balance tax, but the team will also see its first draft pick dropped 10 spots.
Read more at http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/newest-cba-diminish-biggest-spenders-draft-picks/#vcUvIA6SDcKRy4Bg.99
http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/newest-cba-diminish-biggest-spenders-draft-picks/#Jvo8QfgjFIhtxyPV.97

First 6 picks are protected. Penalty applies to your 2nd round pick in that instance. But chance are a team in the top 6 won't have a $237M payroll.