2017 Celtics Offseason: News and General Discussion

chilidawg

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It's all a moot point because as others have pointed out there is no way Cleveland is trading Kyrie to Boston (or any other of the top 5 teams in the East, probably) unless they got blown away with a deal.

But, even if they were willing to trade him to the Celtics, I'm stunned that people think trading IT/Crowder/+ would be a good deal for the Celtics. You are getting a similar player to Thomas with one extra year of team control and fewer injury concerns, but you are giving up a major trade piece in Crowder and weakening your wing/frontcourt depth at a point in the offseason where you really have no viable options to replace Crowder's playing time, so that would certainly hurt the Celtics this season and likely would make them worse next year as well.
I see it as Irving being enough of an upgrade over Thomas, plus you have two years as opposed to one. And I think we're plenty deep in wing depth, with Hayward, Morris, Brown and Tatum, not to mention about 3 other rookies. I wouldn't trade Rozier, but would include someone like Nader or Semi. And next year if Thomas doesn't resign, Brown and Tatum improve and we add another lottery pick we most certainly would be a better team having Irving.
 

Cesar Crespo

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It's all a moot point because as others have pointed out there is no way Cleveland is trading Kyrie to Boston (or any other of the top 5 teams in the East, probably) unless they got blown away with a deal.

But, even if they were willing to trade him to the Celtics, I'm stunned that people think trading IT/Crowder/+ would be a good deal for the Celtics. You are getting a similar player to Thomas with one extra year of team control and fewer injury concerns, but you are giving up a major trade piece in Crowder and weakening your wing/frontcourt depth at a point in the offseason where you really have no viable options to replace Crowder's playing time, so that would certainly hurt the Celtics this season and likely would make them worse next year as well.
You can only put 5 players on the court at one time. This would be a move geared toward the playoffs. I think most see Crowder as largely redundant now that we have Hayward, and to a lesser extent Morris. If you trade both Morris and Crowder, then yeah. We'd need to replace one of them.

I'm also not sure just how much trade value Crowder actually has.
 

DourDoerr

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You can only put 5 players on the court at one time. This would be a move geared toward the playoffs. I think most see Crowder as largely redundant now that we have Hayward, and to a lesser extent Morris. If you trade both Morris and Crowder, then yeah. We'd need to replace one of them.

I'm also not sure just how much trade value Crowder actually has.
These are all good points. At this point, the C's should be looking toward making long playoff runs. Irving's gone to the Finals 3 years in a row. That's invaluable experience for a young team.

I'd also point out that for those who give Irving only a slight edge over IT have to take into account that if there isn't a deal (with the caveat that a CLE-BOS deal is a long shot), then you're probably looking to re-sign IT to a max contract. Given his negatives - his size, potential lingering injury, his age and impact it'd have on his set of skills going forward, I don't think he's worth it. Moving him for Irving now allows you to get a return. Otherwise, you might end up with nothing - or at least nothing this valuable. This is 4 quarters for a dollar (depending on the other pieces the C's would have to include).
 
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Devizier

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Last year in the playoffs, Crowder played 13.7% of the Celtics' total minutes.
Bradley, who lead the team in minutes, played 14.8% of the Celtics' total minutes.
Olynyk, also gone, accounted for another 8%.
The scrubs (Gerald Green and the other lesser lights) played another 13.7% of the Celtics' total minutes.

Between all of these players, you have half the team's minutes.

Now let's factor in additions.

Hayward and Bradley, probably a wash.
Assuming normal development, Brown might be expected to put in Olynyk's share in the playoffs.
Tatum covers Brown's limited minutes from last year's playoffs.
Morris -- assuming Detroit usage patterns persist -- put in roughly the same minutes as Crowder.

That still leaves all the scrub minutes, which means Crowder/Morris in place of Jerebko, Johnson, Gerald Green, et al.

He'll still have a role.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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You mentioned the Suns and they probably work too if the Cavs are interested in Bledsoe and picks. I can't see the Suns moving Chriss, Booker or Jackson in any deal. I'm also not sure how much Irving would improve the Suns, especially in the west. That's probably still a top 5 pick. The Suns are bad.
Current rumour is that Suns can have Irving for Bledsoe and Josh Jackson. I wouldn't do that if I were the Suns.

Wonder if the Cavs have any interest in Dragan Bender?
 

cheech13

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Current rumour is that Suns can have Irving for Bledsoe and Josh Jackson. I wouldn't do that if I were the Suns.

Wonder if the Cavs have any interest in Dragan Bender?
Suns reportedly offered Bledsoe, Jackson and a future first rounder on draft night for Irving. If that deal is still on the table Cleveland should take it. Maybe they could package that pick with Shumpert and Frye to bring back Carmelo, too.
 

BigSoxFan

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Suns reportedly offered Bledsoe, Jackson and a future first rounder on draft night for Irving. If that deal is still on the table Cleveland should take it. Maybe they could package that pick with Shumpert and Frye to bring back Carmelo, too.
Bledsoe/Jackson/future pick would be a very good return for Kyrie. I mean, that's a trade I would have highly considered even before I knew about Kyrie's intentions.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Suns reportedly offered Bledsoe, Jackson and a future first rounder on draft night for Irving. If that deal is still on the table Cleveland should take it. Maybe they could package that pick with Shumpert and Frye to bring back Carmelo, too.
Boy if I'm LeBron, errr the Cavs I mean, I take that deal in a heartbeat. Josh Jackson is one player from this draft who could be really useful against GSW.
 

slamminsammya

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I think they're still the favorites (I'd never say they "are" making the finals, too many variables). Jackson and Bledsoe is a big defensive upgrade.
Lets not get ahead of ourselves on Jackson. I am personally skeptical about how his defense will play out in the NBA. But pretty much anyone will be ahead of Irving.
 

Devizier

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You could make the argument that a healthy Bledsoe is alone an upgrade for the Cavaliers, given their defensive struggles last season. It's also worth mentioning that Bledsoe has only been healthy for 3 of his 7 seasons in the league.
 

dcmissle

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Current rumour is that Suns can have Irving for Bledsoe and Josh Jackson. I wouldn't do that if I were the Suns.

Wonder if the Cavs have any interest in Dragan Bender?
Lets not get ahead of ourselves on Jackson. I am personally skeptical about how his defense will play out in the NBA. But pretty much anyone will be ahead of Irving.
Let's not. Because at least two sources report that the Suns have told Jackson he is not being dealt for Kyrie.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/07/25/report-suns-inform-josh-jackson-he-will-not-be-part-of-any-kyrie-irving-trade/
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Lets not get ahead of ourselves on Jackson. I am personally skeptical about how his defense will play out in the NBA. But pretty much anyone will be ahead of Irving.
Not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying he won't be adequate? Won't be good? Won't be all-defense?

Jackson is a superb athlete and also has the desire to play defense. He's going to cause a lot of people problems and while he may not be able to stay in front of DSJ or he may not be strong enough to guard every 4, he's going to be at least above-average IMO. Plus, he should very good in transition defense.

He'd be good for the Cavs 'cause they couldn't get any stops against GSW in the games I saw. Yes, sometimes GSW missed but they got pretty much what they wanted against GSW.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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moly99

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Bledsoe and Irving are roughly even statistically, and he is better than Kyrie when healthy. If I were GM of the Cavs I would jump at Bledsoe + Jackson + a pick. That gives them a shot at another ring while also giving them ammunition for a rebuild.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Boy if I'm LeBron, errr the Cavs I mean, I take that deal in a heartbeat. Josh Jackson is one player from this draft who could be really useful against GSW.
Maybe the future playoffs (assuming LeBron stays around which maybe is more likely when Irving is moved). Jackson has the chance to be a very good player but as we saw with Jaylen Brown this past year, even diligent young players with NBA ready skills can still be burned by the sets elite NBA teams run. There were stretches in the playoffs where Stevens had to take Brown off the floor because opposing teams targeted him or broke him down. And aside from the Spurs, Celtics and maybe the Rockets, there are are few teams out there as likely as the Warriors to find and brutally exploit an opponent's weakest link in a youngster who is just learning how to play in the NBA.

Edit: added C's to the list.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying he won't be adequate? Won't be good? Won't be all-defense?

Jackson is a superb athlete and also has the desire to play defense. He's going to cause a lot of people problems and while he may not be able to stay in front of DSJ or he may not be strong enough to guard every 4, he's going to be at least above-average IMO. Plus, he should very good in transition defense.

He'd be good for the Cavs 'cause they couldn't get any stops against GSW in the games I saw. Yes, sometimes GSW missed but they got pretty much what they wanted against GSW.
I'll question how any rookie will transition to NBA level defense out of the gate and especially at a championship level but I agree that Jackson absolutely looks like a plus defender in this league once he approaches his mid-twenties. As a rookie he is going to be passable at best which isn't abnormal for any one and done.

Bledsoe and Irving are roughly even statistically, and he is better than Kyrie when healthy. If I were GM of the Cavs I would jump at Bledsoe + Jackson + a pick. That gives them a shot at another ring while also giving them ammunition for a rebuild.
Bledsoe has been my binkie since his UK days and not even I would go this far. Offensively they are similar statistically......while one plays on the fastest paced team in the league whose only other scorer was a 20-year old rookie as Kyrie has been on one of the leagues slowest paced teams two of the past three seasons while he watches half his possessions from the weakside while LeBron has the ball. So really offensively they are not similar at all which doesn't even take into account Kyrie's ability to elevate his game in the playoffs.
 

chilidawg

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I'll question how any rookie will transition to NBA level defense out of the gate and especially at a championship level but I agree that Jackson absolutely looks like a plus defender in this league once he approaches his mid-twenties. As a rookie he is going to be passable at best which isn't abnormal for any one and done.



Bledsoe has been my binkie since his UK days and not even I would go this far. Offensively they are similar statistically......while one plays on the fastest paced team in the league whose only other scorer was a 20-year old rookie as Kyrie has been on one of the leagues slowest paced teams two of the past three seasons while he watches half his possessions from the weakside while LeBron has the ball. So really offensively they are not similar at all which doesn't even take into account Kyrie's ability to elevate his game in the playoffs.
Defensively they're not similar either, which is what makes it a good trade for Cleveland.
 

moly99

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Bledsoe has been my binkie since his UK days and not even I would go this far. Offensively they are similar statistically......while one plays on the fastest paced team in the league whose only other scorer was a 20-year old rookie as Kyrie has been on one of the leagues slowest paced teams two of the past three seasons while he watches half his possessions from the weakside while LeBron has the ball.
Kyrie took more shots than LeBron last year in far fewer minutes, and playing with LeBron should improve his efficiency rather than hurt it. Irving is a better shooter than Bledsoe, but I would argue that is partly due to LeBron rather than despite him. While Bledsoe's TS% has cratered as the Suns have weakened, Kyrie's TS% has improved with the arrival of LeBron.

In any case, even if it is a step down from Kyrie to Bledsoe, it isn't a massive one if Bledsoe can stay healthy. Although that's admittedly a huge "if."
 

nighthob

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Bledsoe's bone on bone in that knee of his. So Jackson and a pick would be necessary to even things out from Cleveland's end. The question is what can they turn Jackson and the pick into. I imagine SG would be high on their list of priorities.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Maybe the future playoffs (assuming LeBron stays around which maybe is more likely when Irving is moved). Jackson has the chance to be a very good player but as we saw with Jaylen Brown this past year, even diligent young players with NBA ready skills can still be burned by the sets elite NBA teams run. There were stretches in the playoffs where Stevens had to take Brown off the floor because opposing teams targeted him or broke him down.
When Brad took JB off the floor, he replaced JB with guys like Jae, Avery, and Smart, each of whom have the reputation as plus defenders.

CLE has no such luxury.

As far as getting targeted, GS was pretty much able to get any shot off at any time since Lue insisted on playing Korver, Deron Williams, and (to a lesser extent), Richard Jefferson. Maybe Lue would have played Jackson for some of Deron Williams' minutes (since for some reason he couldn't bring himself to play Derrick Williams, even though he was the only other guy on the roster who had the length and athleticism to give KD some problems and had shot 40% from 3P over the season).
 

Sam Ray Not

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When Brad took JB off the floor, he replaced JB with guys like Jae, Avery, and Smart, each of whom have the reputation as plus defenders.

CLE has no such luxury.

As far as getting targeted, GS was pretty much able to get any shot off at any time since Lue insisted on playing Korver, Deron Williams, and (to a lesser extent), Richard Jefferson. Maybe Lue would have played Jackson for some of Deron Williams' minutes (since for some reason he couldn't bring himself to play Derrick Williams, even though he was the only other guy on the roster who had the length and athleticism to give KD some problems and had shot 40% from 3P over the season).
And then there's that James guy, who while doing heroic work on offense was pretty much a turnstile defensively all Finals long.

LeBron's dirty little secret is that he's a pretty meh wing defender these days. I mean, he's always rated as a fairly average defender who has been able to turn it up a notch or three in the playoffs; but as he enters his mid-30s that switch will increasingly fail him. I suspect the first signs of age-related decline will be — and have been — more evident on the defensive end than on offense (where his combo of elite hoops IQ, court vision, passing, and handles with vastly improved shooting should age pretty well). If I'm the Cavs I'm already questioning how suited he is to chasing younger, quicker wing players out in space, and wondering when it will make sense to install him as basically a full-time 4 (assuming he even sticks around after this year).

As it stands, the Cavs are a defensive tire fire who over the last couple years — including this Summer — have pretty consistently addressed the problem by adding gasoline. First there was unplayably slow Channing Frye, then last year it was old man Korver and slowpoke Deron; this summer it's been an even older Korver, plus Calderon and Rose. You almost could not handpick a slower, more useless group of defenders. (As you note, Derrick Williams was an attempt to address the problem, but he couldn't find his way off the bench).

Flipping Kyrie for a guy like Bledsoe who can actually defend would no doubt help some. Adding a young, versatile athlete like Josh Jackson to the mix could help too, but as DeJesus notes, rookies are rarely defensive beasts; and one wonders how much Lue would trust him in crunch time, or if as a rookie he'd end up just a younger version of Derrick Williams.

The deal that could have really upgraded their D in a qualitative way (similar to the Warriors cutting loose Landry and Jack to sign Iguodala; or benching Lee for Draymond) was something revolving around Love-for-George — which would have allowed LeBron to fully embrace his defensive destiny as a 4, or even occasionally 5, and was apparently thisclose to a done deal before Kevin Pritchard pulled the plug. I guess we'll never know if David Griffin could have closed that deal had he not been cut. Oh well.

 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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The deal that could have really upgraded their D in a qualitative way (similar to the Warriors cutting loose Landry and Jack to sign Iguodala; or benching Lee for Draymond) was something revolving around Love-for-George — which would have allowed LeBron to fully embrace his defensive destiny as a 4, or even occasionally 5, and was apparently thisclose to a done deal before Kevin Pritchard pulled the plug. I guess we'll never know if David Griffin could have closed that deal had he not been cut. Oh well.
Yeah, the Cavs had a chance to remake themselves this summer. Trading Love for George and Irving for Bledsoe, Jackson, and the #1; resigning Derrick Williams (I'm not sure he couldn't get off the bench but was stapled to the bench by Lue for an unproductive veteran in a way that would have made his mentor, Doc Rivers, proud); and forgetting about Calderon I think would have been an upgrade against GSW.

I mean when a team has to play Iman Shumpert against KD for long stretches, they might want to rethink their roster construction.

One thing about LBJs defense. I mean he's probably lost a quarter of a step since chasing around Tony Parker but he can still be a beast on the defensive end when he has the energy. The problem is that in today's NBA with the pace teams play at, it's virtually impossible to play outstanding perimeter defense and be the focal point on offense for 40 minutes. With all of the switching and the screens, people just have to work too hard on defense these days.
 

RedOctober3829

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Woj on the Irving trade talks

"Several suitors contend there are two teams with the best ability to make deals for Irving: the Suns and Boston Celtics. So far, the Suns are unwilling to include No. 4 overall pick Josh Jackson in a trade, league sources said. The Celtics are monitoring, but it's unclear how aggressive they'll get -- and how motivated the Cavaliers would be to make a deal with their fiercest conference rival."
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20177155/kyrie-irving-trade-talks-show-how-much-teams-including-cleveland-cavaliers-value-him
 

HomeRunBaker

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Woj on the Irving trade talks

"Several suitors contend there are two teams with the best ability to make deals for Irving: the Suns and Boston Celtics. So far, the Suns are unwilling to include No. 4 overall pick Josh Jackson in a trade, league sources said. The Celtics are monitoring, but it's unclear how aggressive they'll get -- and how motivated the Cavaliers would be to make a deal with their fiercest conference rival."
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20177155/kyrie-irving-trade-talks-show-how-much-teams-including-cleveland-cavaliers-value-him
We should get used to hearing the Celtics being on the short list of teams with "best ability to make deals for star xyz" moving forward. I don't see the fit with Kyrie here from our position even though his defensive upgrade on Isaiah in the post-season is significant and certainly don't see Gilbert trading him to the up and coming contender in the East.
 

BigSoxFan

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Woj on the Irving trade talks

"Several suitors contend there are two teams with the best ability to make deals for Irving: the Suns and Boston Celtics. So far, the Suns are unwilling to include No. 4 overall pick Josh Jackson in a trade, league sources said. The Celtics are monitoring, but it's unclear how aggressive they'll get -- and how motivated the Cavaliers would be to make a deal with their fiercest conference rival."
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20177155/kyrie-irving-trade-talks-show-how-much-teams-including-cleveland-cavaliers-value-him
I hope Danny stays active here, if for nothing more than to just drive up the price for the Suns.
 

finnVT

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Err, if he goes to the Suns, I want the price as low as possible. No reason to help the Cavs get better, and the Suns being good should help with at least the LAL/SAC pick, and maybe the MEM one as well.
 

nighthob

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We should get used to hearing the Celtics being on the short list of teams with "best ability to make deals for star xyz" moving forward. I don't see the fit with Kyrie here from our position even though his defensive upgrade on Isaiah in the post-season is significant and certainly don't see Gilbert trading him to the up and coming contender in the East.
I don't think Boston is involved as a destination for Irving, I have a sneaking suspicion their interest is in sending Crowder/whatever to Cleveland to help their win now strategy in exchange for whatever draft picks the Cavs end up with in the exchange.
 

nighthob

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Err, if he goes to the Suns, I want the price as low as possible. No reason to help the Cavs get better, and the Suns being good should help with at least the LAL/SAC pick, and maybe the MEM one as well.
I don't care about the Cavs getting better. Boston isn't beating the LeBroniers. And the party in Cleveland comes to an end next July. So the return that Cleveland gets for James is irrelevant to Boston.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't think Boston is involved as a destination for Irving, I have a sneaking suspicion their interest is in sending Crowder/whatever to Cleveland to help their win now strategy in exchange for whatever draft picks the Cavs end up with in the exchange.
I agree. I'm waiting on the Crowder for draft pick or Crowder/Rozier for one rotational 2-guard (Eric Gordon was suggested on celticsnuts). There was a specific purpose for signing Larkin and the comments from each side indicate that he will be a Celtic along with the one-year guarantee. The roster makeover is almost complete. Kyrie doesn't seem to fit in it even if Cleveland would inexplicably deal him to us.
 

nighthob

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I agree. I'm waiting on the Crowder for draft pick or Crowder/Rozier for one rotational 2-guard (Eric Gordon was suggested on celticsnuts). There was a specific purpose for signing Larkin and the comments from each side indicate that he will be a Celtic along with the one-year guarantee. The roster makeover is almost complete. Kyrie doesn't seem to fit in it even if Cleveland would inexplicably deal him to us.
It would be hilarious if Phoenix gave in on Josh Jackson and Boston sent Crowder/Rozier/whatever to Cleveland for him.
 

the moops

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I hope Danny stays active here, if for nothing more than to just drive up the price for the Suns.
Why do you want the price to go up for the Suns? If anything, you want them to be good (to help with LAL and/or SAC pick), and you want CLE to receive a lesser return (to improve our chances of beating them).
 

BigSoxFan

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Why do you want the price to go up for the Suns? If anything, you want them to be good (to help with LAL and/or SAC pick), and you want CLE to receive a lesser return (to improve our chances of beating them).
Can't I be vindictive and irrational? Sheesh.
 

nighthob

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I don't think Boston is dealing Crowder.
They might not, but he and his agent aren't happy about him being replaced in the starting lineup and being reduced to bench duty. And from Boston's perspective his value will never be higher given that whoever trades for him gets three years of average NBA production at sub-MLE money.
 

JCizzle

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They might not, but he and his agent aren't happy about him being replaced in the starting lineup and being reduced to bench duty. And from Boston's perspective his value will never be higher given that whoever trades for him gets three years of average NBA production at sub-MLE money.
I think he's still going to be the starter. IT/JB/Hayward/Jae/Horford. They'll quickly sub in Baynes on nights where they need the size while keeping Jae happy that he's the starter.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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There was a specific purpose for signing Larkin and the comments from each side indicate that he will be a Celtic along with the one-year guarantee.
I would guess that there are no guarantees that Larkin is going to make the roster. Ainge commented on the 16 guaranteed contracts recently by saying (https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2017/07/26/although-costly-danny-ainge-sees-value-extra-guaranteed-deals/D5k1X9SGjxilZgDOkSRhUO/story):

“It’s not ideal, because some guaranteed money gets thrown out,” Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge said. “But I think it gives us an opportunity to have competition, but also see more players we’ve followed and watched and looked at. And it’s another good indication that ownership is really willing to spend money to give us these luxuries, these opportunities to see more players. It speaks a lot to them as much as anything.”

The article points out that the Cs have had 16 guaranteed contracts the last two years (leading to Perry Jones III and RJ Hunter to be waived prior to the season).

If I were Larkin, I'd be okay with this because I'm going to be able to put some tape together in preseason and then find out very quickly whether I make the team. And if I don't, I have over $1M for a couple of months of NBA-level work and go to the G League where I'd be a free agent and can be picked up by any team, which is more attractive these days since approximately 60 G League players are going to be locked up on 2-way contracts. Or, I could go sign a one-year deal overseas and make about what I would have made with Barcelona.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I think he's still going to be the starter. IT/JB/Hayward/Jae/Horford. They'll quickly sub in Baynes quickly on nights where they need the size while keeping Jae happy that he's the starter.
I agree that Jae will probably be opening day starter but Brad is going to be looking at Morris for extended minutes and given that Brad seems to like to open with two bigs, my preliminary guess is that Morris will be starting more than a few games for the Cs.
 

nighthob

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I think he's still going to be the starter. IT/JB/Hayward/Jae/Horford. They'll quickly sub in Baynes quickly on nights where they need the size while keeping Jae happy that he's the starter.
Crowder's standing reach is average, for a shooting guard (his measurables are the exact same as the 3" shorter Marcus Smart). I'm guess that the average lengthed Morris is going to be starting as he offers more defensive resistance than Crowder over the long haul. They did let both Smart and Crowder play the 4 last year, but only ever in bursts, not for extended play.
 

finnVT

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I think he's still going to be the starter. IT/JB/Hayward/Jae/Horford. They'll quickly sub in Baynes quickly on nights where they need the size while keeping Jae happy that he's the starter.
There's so much flexibility on the roster now that it's really hard to know what the starting 5 is going to look like, but I tend to mostly agree with this. I'd have him as one of the 4 "core" starters (IT/Hayward/Crowder/Horford), with one of Smart/JB/Morris/Baynes as the 5th guy, depending on matchups, etc.

Crowder was almost sneaky good last year-- I say "almost" because I think most people here do appreciate what he did, but I think we still may be underestimating him. By RPM, he was a top 5-6 SF in the league, he was something like 10th among SFs in WS (depending on who you count as a SF), shot nearly 40% from 3, adds a lot of positional versatility, etc, etc. Right now, that looks like a career year, but he's gotten better every year and if he can maintain this level of production on his salary, that's an incredibly valuable asset and hard to replace given that the C's are now over the cap and have some potentially expensive decisions coming up. Especially in a world where guys like Otto Porter are getting max contracts.
 

JCizzle

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Crowder's standing reach is average, for a shooting guard (his measurables are the exact same as the 3" shorter Marcus Smart). I'm guess that the average lengthed Morris is going to be starting as he offers more defensive resistance than Crowder over the long haul. They did let both Smart and Crowder play the 4 last year, but only ever in bursts, not for extended play.
I think it's more for ego than basketball reasons - basically just to prevent the bad blood that you laid out earlier. I think they'd prefer to start him and keep him happy, while also pulling him five minutes into the game if needed for Morris or Baynes. The lineup will probably score a ton though, so it might not be the end of the world to give up some size for the first few min of each game.
 

Eddie Jurak

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They might not, but he and his agent aren't happy about him being replaced in the starting lineup and being reduced to bench duty. And from Boston's perspective his value will never be higher given that whoever trades for him gets three years of average NBA production at sub-MLE money.
I don't think he is being replaced in the starting lineup and reduced to bench duty.
 

nighthob

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I think it's more for ego than basketball reasons - basically just to prevent the bad blood that you laid out earlier.
Boston is not prioritizing Jae Crowder's feelz over winning games. If they cared about his feelings they wouldn't have gone out and signed Hayward. If he's starting it's almost certainly at the SF spot because they feel comfortable with Hayward playing the 2. Crowder is a great 3&D SF on a bargain contract, which has a lot of value around the league. And the less bargain time the new team gets, the less he's worth in trade.
 

JCizzle

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Boston is not prioritizing Jae Crowder's feelz over winning games. If they cared about his feelings they wouldn't have gone out and signed Hayward. If he's starting it's almost certainly at the SF spot because they feel comfortable with Hayward playing the 2. Crowder is a great 3&D SF on a bargain contract, which has a lot of value around the league. And the less bargain time the new team gets, the less he's worth in trade.
Meh, I don't think Brad particularly gives a shit who starts games if it will help prevent chemistry issues. For example, he started Amir twice against the Cavs in the ECF and the guy didn't end up playing ten minutes in either game. In terms of impact on winning games, I think who starts is pretty much meaningless compared to who plays the most and/or who closes out games. That stuff just isn't as flashy.
 

nighthob

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Crowder isn't interested in "starting" and getting Olynyked. What he wants is the time necessary to keep up his production at current levels so that he gets overpaid on his next deal. And the Celtics just no longer have that time for him, especially as his lack of reach makes it tough for them to play him at the 4, and with Brown and Morris now cutting into his time and Tatum and Ojeleye also looking for burn.
 

BigSoxFan

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In season trades are pretty rare but this seems like the potential situation for one since Brad doesn't quite know what he has yet in Tatum, Ojeleye, and Morris. My concern with Crowder is him seeing gradually reduced minutes and then going public with it and hurting his trade value a little bit. You can't let a guy like him dictate things but there is some potential value and getting out in front of it. For now, I'd like to see what a lineup of Horford/Crowder/Hayward/Brown/IT can accomplish. I don't expect Ojeleye to be a real threat for minutes this year and Tatum will probably be handled cautious as well. There are plenty of minutes for Jae right now but that probably won't be the case a year from now.