Better Fit for the Celtics--George/Hayward or George/Griffin

Eddie Jurak · Jun 28, 2017

George/Hayward, although if not for injury concerns I would say George/Griffin.

bsj · Jun 28, 2017

George Hayward only if we get an extension

Wilco's Last Fan · Jun 28, 2017

YMMV, but even assuming health, if our goal is to compete in the Finals, I worry about playing Griffin & Horford on the floor together against the Warriors' death lineup.

I think Hayward & George gives us the lineup versatility to go "small" (with George at the 4 matched up against Durant) when we need to, while still allowing us to play Hayward-George-Zizic at the 2-3-4 when other teams go big.

Edit: With that said, Griffin and Horford are two excellent passing bigs, and the ball movement could be exceptional.

Minneapolis Millers · Jun 28, 2017

The rumors make it seem as though the team favors Hayward, but who knows what Ainge et al really think? I'm worried about our overall size if it's Hayward, since we'll be losing guys like Johnson, Olynyk, and likely Crowder. That leaves only Horford and the unproven Zizic as 4/5 types, right? Rebounding might not be the end-all-be-all, but you need to keep teams from constantly getting 3rd and 4th shots and play some defense in the paint. Tatum's not going to be up for guarding the 6'9", 235+ lb guys until he fills out.

But Griffin's injury history and mediocre 3 pt shooting are also cause for some concern...

Jed Zeppelin · Jun 28, 2017

Minneapolis Millers said:
The rumors make it seem as though the team favors Hayward, but who knows what Ainge et al really think? I'm worried about our overall size if it's Hayward, since we'll be losing guys like Johnson, Olynyk, and likely Crowder. That leaves only Horford and the unproven Zizic as 4/5 types, right? Rebounding might not be the end-all-be-all, but you need to keep teams from constantly getting 3rd and 4th shots and play some defense in the paint. Tatum's not going to be up for guarding the 6'9", 235+ lb guys until he fills out.

But Griffin's injury history and mediocre 3 pt shooting are also cause for some concern...

Half-joking here, but Jaylen might be. Apparently he said on an Instagram live recently that he's up to 6'8" 237.

Was (Not Wasdin) · Jun 28, 2017

I voted George/Griffin. I'd be willing to take the injury risk for the help up front. Hayward would be a massive boost to the offense, no question (especially when playing at the 2) but like MM above I am concerned about overall size.

smastroyin · Jun 28, 2017

The question is what the Celtics would ask of Griffin? As Jordan's minutes have gone up, Griffin's rebounding percentages are way down, but the Celtics don't have a big rebounding center. Would they want to stick Griffin in the paint like he's 20 years old again? Would his injury bug become better or worse?

Or, would they want him taking more 3's, which is something he finally really only started doing last year? And then, does the size really matter all the much on offense? Probably not. On defense - he probably helps against some bigs, but hurts against smallball lineups. Can he defend athletic 3/4's still?

The thing for me is that Bradley and Crowder are in all probability gone in this scenario. In this case, I think you're going to need Hayward more just to have the most guys possible that you can shift around to defend 2-3-4.

But I'll admit I don't watch the Clippers that much.

DJnVa · Jun 28, 2017

bsj said:
George Hayward only if we get an extension

George was the constant in the questions---are you saying if he gets an extension then you want Hayward, but if not you want Griffin? Why?

wade boggs chicken dinner · Jun 28, 2017

George and Hawyard is the choice for me. Give Brad as many guys who can do a lot of things on offense and defend multiple positions on defense and I'll take my chances.

It would be a testimony to DA's foresight if he managed to get both PG and GH and drafted a top flight defensive PG prospect to have on the bench in certain situations.

JCizzle · Jun 28, 2017

Jed Zeppelin said:
Half-joking here, but Jaylen might be. Apparently he said on an Instagram live recently that he's up to 6'8" 237.

I want Hayward/PG. Health is a big aspect, but I'm also really not worried about having too much swing depth. I think Brad and Danny are totally fine running out lineups of guys ~6'7".

When IT needs a blow: Hayward, Brown, Tatum, George, Horford could cause some serious damage in a year or two.

BigSoxFan · Jun 28, 2017

JCizzle said:
I want Hayward/PG. Health is a big aspect, but I'm also really not worried about having too much swing depth. I think Brad and Danny are totally fine running out lineups of guys ~6'7".

When IT needs a blow: Hayward, Brown, Tatum, George, Horford could cause some serious damage in a year or two.

I bet Stevens always played with 4 medium guys in that Nintendo Ice Hockey game.

Ale Xander · Jun 28, 2017

If it were not for injury concerns or salarycap reasons/possibilities, but pure fit, Griffin + Hayward. But I realize George is necessary for salary cap machinations. So for injury concerns, Hayward

IT/Rozier/Smart
Brown
Hayward
Griffin
Horford

Tatum 6th man

----
IT/Rozier/Smart
Brown (swing)
Hayward (swing)
George (swing)
Horford

Eddie Jurak · Jun 28, 2017

smastroyin said:
The question is what the Celtics would ask of Griffin? As Jordan's minutes have gone up, Griffin's rebounding percentages are way down, but the Celtics don't have a big rebounding center. Would they want to stick Griffin in the paint like he's 20 years old again? Would his injury bug become better or worse?

Or, would they want him taking more 3's, which is something he finally really only started doing last year? And then, does the size really matter all the much on offense? Probably not. On defense - he probably helps against some bigs, but hurts against smallball lineups. Can he defend athletic 3/4's still?

The thing for me is that Bradley and Crowder are in all probability gone in this scenario. In this case, I think you're going to need Hayward more just to have the most guys possible that you can shift around to defend 2-3-4.

But I'll admit I don't watch the Clippers that much.

What I'd be looking for out of Blake is defensive rebounding (he's a good defensive rebounder whose numbers are hurt by playing next to DJ), playmaking/stretch big role on offense (an area where he is overshadowed by Chris Paul, but he pretty much runs the show for the Clippers when Paul is out).

https://theringer.com/2017-nba-free-agency-blake-griffin-point-guard-eeae6cd3b18d

Blake is one of the best passers, 6-foot-9 or taller, in NBA history. He is one of six current players his height to have a season with an assist rate higher than 25 percent, and one of only 13 players to ever do it. There have just not been many basketball players with his combination of size, speed, and ballhandling and passing ability before, and the best way to utilize him is to have him be the player throwing alley-oops, not catching them. Not only would using Blake as a point guard make him a better player, it would give his team more flexibility when it comes to the types of lineups he could be used in and the players he could be put around.

This is something the Clippers never took full advantage of because of Paul. The Celtics, on the other hand, are better positioned to benefit from it.

That said, I still lean towards preference for Hayward, mostly for injury and personality reasons.

Cesar Crespo · Jun 28, 2017

Horford was at 24.4 this season. That would be an interesting pairing offensively. Jokic was at a ridiculous 28.8%.

Kid T · Jun 28, 2017

Hayward/George for me. In the current NBA, you can never have enough scoring options - especially with 3 pt proficiency. Also, if we are able to land a top 4 pick next year the top rated players are all bigs (with the exception of doncic).

chilidawg · Jun 28, 2017

I'm still skeptical that either outcome is likely, given the difficulty of fitting it all in under the cap in a short window with a number of other bidders, but I'll be very happy to be proven wrong if either outcome happens. I'd lean toward George over Griffin, assuming he signs an extension. More versatile on both ends.

Eddie Jurak · Jun 28, 2017

chilidawg said:
I'm still skeptical that either outcome is likely, given the difficulty of fitting it all in under the cap in a short window with a number of other bidders, but I'll be very happy to be proven wrong if either outcome happens. I'd lean toward George over Griffin, assuming he signs an extension. More versatile on both ends.

I think that's probably right. I have an irrational preference for bigs who can handle the ball and run an offense, which makes me want to say Griffin. But George is probably the better bet.

Kid T · Jun 29, 2017

Not sure if this deserves its' own thread, but would anyone who prefers George/Hayward over George/Griffin change their mind if Griffin were willing to take less money? Let's just assume for sake of argument he is willing to take $25 mil/year. That extra $4 mil/yr would mean you could keep Smart.

Papelbon's Poutine · Jun 29, 2017

For me, no. For two reasons.

1. My preference in Hayward over Griffin is Griffin's injuries history and seeming temperament issues. He misses games every year and has seem to have attitude problems. Attitude problems aren't a deal killer for me, but combined with the injuries, I'd prefer Hayward.

2. You're only keeping Smart for one season, a season they likely aren't getting past GS anyway. He will be overpaid and I'd prefer the Celtics not be the team to do it, especially since they'd be in luxury tax land at that point. Honestly I'd prefer they keep AB between the two of them but that's not likely possible.

moly99 · Jun 29, 2017

If only the team actually had a choice of all three guys . . .

Personally I think we will land either both Hayward and George or neither of them, which would make Griffin the consolation prize.

JCizzle · Jun 29, 2017

Sheer insanity. He should cost significantly less than Butler, not 10x as much.

With that said, posture away dude - can't hurt to ask.

snowmanny · Jun 29, 2017

A lot of teams are going to match that offer, at least during Pritchard's R.E.M. Cycle.

the moops · Jun 29, 2017

Not sure which podcast it was, but they talked about a Brown, Bradley, BOS 2018 pick, LAC pick, and Rozier as a price they would pay for a non renegotiated George

Better Fit for the Celtics--George/Hayward or George/Griffin

What combination fits the Celtics the best?

Paul George/Gordon Hayward

Paul George/Blake Griffin

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