Jaylen Brown - underrated?

DJnVa

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This is for the dreamers out there (highlight reels make everyone look like an all star). Personally, my favorite part is the body language of his teammates. They all seem to love him. The sideline celebrations when he posterizes someone are already at an all-NBA level. He's got some physicality to his game when he chooses to use it and will get a lot stronger. Also, the degree of difficulty on those couple plays where he changes hands in mid-air is off the charts.
I like the play at 3:39 with Lebron on him.
 

cheech13

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The "3&D" moniker was designed for those fringe role players that good teams valued because they could carry a defensive load while occasionally knocking down a corner 3 to prevent themselves from being a total zero on offense (the Bruce Bowen archetype, essentially). That idea, however, has been turned on its head by the changes in the modern pace and space era where 3 point shooting and defensive flexibility are probably the two most desired traits in NBA players. To be a "3&D" guy now is to be a vital piece in the construction of a roster. It's why guys like Allen Crabbe make almost $20 million a year.
 

smastroyin

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The thing I have trouble with is that I really feel the calibration on Jae Crowder is way off. Like, the same people using Jae Crowder as a reference point have vastly different opinions of Jae Crowder.

Also though, I do have to add that Brad Stevens seems to like Crowder fine, plays him a ton of minutes on a ton of different rotations, doesn't have to hide him on any of them (in fact uses him and Bradley/Smart to hide Isaiah). Brad Stevens has no interest in how good the contract is, he is trying win games, not payroll efficiency. The team is better with Crowder on the court, this is backed up by box score statistics, by on/off statistics, and by advanced versions of both.

The point being - whatever you want to say about Brown, let's stop talking about Jae Crowder as some easily achievable insult. The NBA is littered with top 5 picks who were never as good as Crowder has been the past two years.
 

Drocca

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The thing I have trouble with is that I really feel the calibration on Jae Crowder is way off. Like, the same people using Jae Crowder as a reference point have vastly different opinions of Jae Crowder.

Also though, I do have to add that Brad Stevens seems to like Crowder fine, plays him a ton of minutes on a ton of different rotations, doesn't have to hide him on any of them (in fact uses him and Bradley/Smart to hide Isaiah). Brad Stevens has no interest in how good the contract is, he is trying win games, not payroll efficiency. The team is better with Crowder on the court, this is backed up by box score statistics, by on/off statistics, and by advanced versions of both.

The point being - whatever you want to say about Brown, let's stop talking about Jae Crowder as some easily achievable insult. The NBA is littered with top 5 picks who were never as good as Crowder has been the past two years.
This is such a good post and probably gets way too closer than I did at expressing my disbelief about concepts of Jaylen Brown's floor. It has nothing to do with Jaylen Brown, who is fun as shit to watch and I hope becomes a star. The point is that the NBA is filled with really, really great players. Back to the idea of Ben Simmons as a Top 15 forward next year: it's not that I am bagging on Simmons. It's that there those 15 best forwards in the NBA have the experience to get there. It is so rare for a 1st year player or second year player to be at that level by design. It takes a lot of time and development and work to get there.

We are discussing potential and these guys, including Jaylen, have the potential to be stars. That's why they were drafted where they were. The tools are all there. Same with Simmons. But you also have to be realistic about how good NBA players are. They all have the tools as does every G-League player, many overseas players and many players who never sniffed it.

But this is also a larger conversation, I think, about the Celtics as they are now. The question is: when will they truly be able to compete for a Championship. Because they are already at every level right up to that. The facts on the ground have much less to do with the Celtics and much more to do with Lebron James, Steph Curry and Kevin Durant. If we can continue to have a fun, awesome team that is talented enough to be in the tier right underneath GS/Cavs while bringing along young guys with potential then we are in the best shape of any team NOT named GS/Cavs which is an unbelievably awesome place to be as a team. But we also have to be honest with ourselves that these guys may not pan out. They may just become average NBA players because, well, statistically speaking, that's what most guys turn into.
 

tbrown_01923

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Jae has recently (and perhaps unexpectedly) blossomed. He is a much better three point shooter now than when he arrived, which has opened up some of his straight line drives. His bulk allows him some positional flexibility upwards that Jaylen doesn't currently possess, but Jaylen can potentially have positional flexibility downwards - though currently he struggles on D against quick guards. Jae plays more than I would like because our options at the 4/5 are not as good - particularly against more agile lineups.

Per Brown - I am more bullish on his shooting now than I was before the draft. I am also more bullish on his shooting now than I was of Jae's when he first joined the Cs's (maybe because I hadn't seen him much). I am optimistic he can be more valuable than Jae - perhaps in the next 1 or 2 years - but he still needs to improve his play and demonstrate it on a nightly basis.

The league is a grind. Each game is grind. Jae has shown that he is capable over the course of a season. We haven't seen that grind from Jaylen. No matter how likely it is that he is capable, there is a non-zero risk that he doesn't deliver. That is why I am firmly in the Jaylen's floor is not current day Jae - not yet.

Each day we learn more and perspective floors and ceilings change.
 

slamminsammya

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Re the Jae Crowder disconnect - per ESPN's RPM he was the 20th best player in the NBA this year. I am not sure I have him that high but a lot of people around here talk about him like hes just a slight step above some average starter you just plug in to the starting lineup.

20th best IN THE NBA.
 

#classicsquander

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Re the Jae Crowder disconnect - per ESPN's RPM he was the 20th best player in the NBA this year. I am not sure I have him that high but a lot of people around here talk about him like hes just a slight step above some average starter you just plug in to the starting lineup.

20th best IN THE NBA.
I'm sure the folks who would push back would point out that Amir Johnson, who was benched for most of the playoffs, was 22nd in RPM this season.
 

BigSoxFan

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Here's a question:

If Jaylen Brown's peak turns out to be more or less equal to 2016-2017 Jae Crowder, are we:

1) Seriously disappointed
2) Slightly disappointed
3) Content
4) Excited
5) Pumped!

Seems like the answers to this question will range from 2-4 based on this thread.
 

Pxer

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Here's a question:

If Jaylen Brown's peak turns out to be more or less equal to 2016-2017 Jae Crowder, are we:

1) Seriously disappointed
2) Slightly disappointed
3) Content
4) Excited
5) Pumped!

Seems like the answers to this question will range from 2-4 based on this thread.
I think we can not expect it, but still be rather disappointed.
 

bowiac

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I think his median outcome is below Crowder, but I'd still be disappointed. He was the third overall pick. Any non-star outcome is a disappointment, even if it's by far more likely.

I'm a bit troubled by the fact that I can't think of a NBA player like him whose game I like however. I don't like upside comps as a concept, but they're a nice comfort blanket.
 

sezwho

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Here's a question:

If Jaylen Brown's peak turns out to be more or less equal to 2016-2017 Jae Crowder, are we:

1) Seriously disappointed
2) Slightly disappointed
3) Content
4) Excited
5) Pumped!

Seems like the answers to this question will range from 2-4 based on this thread.
I'm actually going with #1. To be clear, I like Jae a lot and think he brings strong defense and toughness as well as making big time baskets from time to time. However, there is absolutely a part of me that will be seriously disappointed if peak JB doesn't end up making an all star game and exceeding 13.9/7.9/2.2
 

ishmael

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I'm actually going with #1. To be clear, I like Jae a lot and think he brings strong defense and toughness as well as making big time baskets from time to time. However, there is absolutely a part of me that will be seriously disappointed if peak JB doesn't end up making an all star game and exceeding 13.9/7.9/2.2
I've gotta agree with sezwho on this one (although I'd say #2, not #1). Jae Crowder came into the league as a guy who could play good positional+man defense and has improved his offensive game each year.

Jaylen -- in his age 20 season -- managed to be a (small) net positive on both ends of the court. He hit the rookie wall around February, but managed to stay strong mentally and rebounded to the point where he earned playoff minutes in a conference finals. With a full summer on the Celtics training/coaching program and another year coming off the bench, he can continue to learn how his skillset translates to the NBA. By the 2018-2019 season, he'll be 22 years old, much more physically developed, and I'd expect him to be a high quality starter.

What I think is very much TBD is whether Jaylen can harness his physical talents to become an elite SF, but that will still take 2-3 more years to determine. Just check out the player development curves of these guys (all of whom came into the league at 19 or 20) for comparison:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/antetgi01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01.html

PS: if you were quoting Jae's counting stats, those numbers were 13.9/5.8/2.2 this year.
 

mauf

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I think his median outcome is below Crowder, but I'd still be disappointed. He was the third overall pick. Any non-star outcome is a disappointment, even if it's by far more likely.

I'm a bit troubled by the fact that I can't think of a NBA player like him whose game I like however. I don't like upside comps as a concept, but they're a nice comfort blanket.
Not Jimmy Butler?

I think Jaylen is a better raw athlete than Butler, so there's an outside chance he'll become a true franchise guy, but a great second banana in the mold of Butler seems like a good 80th percentile projection for Jaylen. (Of course, you think about these things more analytically than I do, so I won't be surprised if you can identify a couple reasons why I'm clearly wrong.)
 

DJnVa

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I've gotta agree with sezwho on this one (although I'd say #2, not #1). Jae Crowder came into the league as a guy who could play good positional+man defense and has improved his offensive game each year.

Jaylen -- in his age 20 season -- managed to be a (small) net positive on both ends of the court. He hit the rookie wall around February, but managed to stay strong mentally and rebounded to the point where he earned playoff minutes in a conference finals.
How are you defining rookie wall? His minutes went up and he had 2 of his better shooting months towards end of season.
 

tbrown_01923

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I think JB had a midseason slump in the february time frame. Probably not the rookie wall, as he was able to recover...
 

LondonSox

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First half .427/.304/.721
2nd half .494/.379/.605

His 3PA doubled in the 2nd half too (1.3 to 2.6). He had the same amount of FTA but he got worse as the season went along from the line.
Yes but he shot 0.455 in February
Otherwise it's pretty unclear there was an improvement. Hence the comment it could have been a hot streak.
In march he shot even more and his percentage went back to 0.325. I think we don't know yet
 

DJnVa

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Yes but he shot 0.455 in February
Otherwise it's pretty unclear there was an improvement. Hence the comment it could have been a hot streak.
In march he shot even more and his percentage went back to 0.325. I think we don't know yet
It's only unclear because for some reason you want to it be

OCT: .000
NOV: .333
DEC: .308
JAN: .263
MAR: .325
APR: .375

Completely forgetting February (because he was too good or something), MAR and APR were 2 of his best 3 months, and he was shooting more.

That's an improvement. By definition.

Adding FEB back in, and it looks even better.
 

Cesar Crespo

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He has a point with sample size though. I brought it up more so to point out how Jaylen's FT shooting went to shit as the season went along, but that's an even slightly smaller sample size. I'd take an educated guess that there is also far less variance in FT % from month to month/year to year than 3 point shooting.

Jimmy Butler is all over the place with his 3 point shooting. And we have Marcus Smart who looked like he would be passable at one point.

To highlight this fact, if Jaylen goes 40-135 .296 instead of 46-135 .341, we are talking about how he has to desperately improve his shot as .296 isn't cutting it. If you include his 5-23 in the postseason, Jaylen was at 51-158 .323.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Interestingly enough, if you add Marcus Smart's postseason numbers, he comes out to a career .300 shooter. He is 43/118 .364 in the playoffs from beyond the arc. 11/32 .344 last year, 29/73 .397 this year. He was 18/61 .295 inside the arch from the playoffs this year. Dreadful.
 

JCizzle

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Interestingly enough, if you add Marcus Smart's postseason numbers, he comes out to a career .300 shooter. He is 43/118 .364 in the playoffs from beyond the arc. 11/32 .344 last year, 29/73 .397 this year. He was 18/61 .295 inside the arch from the playoffs this year. Dreadful.
Yeah, this is my concern with Marcus. People seem to want him to drive more, but he's not athletic enough to get to the rim and finish. He gets gobbled up over and over again. He's such a weird, unique player.
 

#classicsquander

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To highlight this fact, if Jaylen goes 40-135 .296 instead of 46-135 .341, we are talking about how he has to desperately improve his shot as .296 isn't cutting it. If you include his 5-23 in the postseason, Jaylen was at 51-158 .323.
And if he went 36 for 102 instead of 30 for 102 at Cal, he would have shot 35% from three in college. I feel like this cuts both ways, doesn't it? He doesn't seem comparable to Smart because Jaylen has good form on his jumper and shot well from 3 in high school. I'm not super concerned about his ability as a shooter, I expect he will improve.

Really, it's his shitty ball handling that is more concerning for his development.
 

Cesar Crespo

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And if he went 36 for 102 instead of 30 for 102 at Cal, he would have shot 35% from three in college. I feel like this cuts both ways, doesn't it? He doesn't seem comparable to Smart because Jaylen has good form on his jumper and shot well from 3 in high school. I'm not super concerned about his ability as a shooter, I expect he will improve.

Really, it's his shitty ball handling that is more concerning for his development.
It does work both ways. That's the point. I'm saying we don't really know whether he's improved as a 3 point shooter or not. The signs are encouraging from 3, not so encouraging from free. You'd like his handles and FT shooting to improve because he looks like a player who could get to the line 7+ times a game.
 

#classicsquander

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It does work both ways. That's the point. I'm saying we don't really know whether he's improved as a 3 point shooter or not. The signs are encouraging from 3, not so encouraging from free. You'd like his handles and FT shooting to improve because he looks like a player who could get to the line 7+ times a game.
It's harder for me to get a sense of his free throw shooting upside. Jae Crowder shot .683 from the line in college and has turned himself into a pretty good free throw shooter. I believe Brown shot around 70% from the line in high school. I guess I'm not sure it matters that much if he's a 70% shooter or an 80% shooter from the line if he gets to the line 7+ times a game.

I was under the impression that the scrutiny of his free throw shooting was because of the belief that it correlates with 3 point shooting success. After his rookie season, I don't share those concerns.
 

the moops

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I'm not sure we should expect Brown to be able to get to the line 7+ times a game. Only 6 players did that last year, 4 the year before.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I was under the impression that the scrutiny of his free throw shooting was because of the belief that it correlates with 3 point shooting success. After his rookie season, I don't share those concerns.

Yeah, for most people that's probably the case. I just thought his FT shooting got noticeably worse as the season went along. 70% is ok, anything above 75% would be wonderful. 60% is Rajon Rondo redux. He did slightly bounce from .602 in the 2nd half to .667 in the playoffs but SSS and all.
 

DJnVa

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Yeah, for most people that's probably the case. I just thought his FT shooting got noticeably worse as the season went along. 70% is ok, anything above 75% would be wonderful. 60% is Rajon Rondo redux. He did slightly bounce from .602 in the 2nd half to .667 in the playoffs but SSS and all.
In baseball I know we have numbers that say when a certain stat is no longer SSS---do we have that in hoops?
 

#classicsquander

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I'm not sure we should expect Brown to be able to get to the line 7+ times a game. Only 6 players did that last year, 4 the year before.
I think you're right. My point was that his free throw percentage won't matter much if he becomes the type of player who gets to the line with that kind of frequency. That said, if he can develop his handle, I see no reason to think he can't get to the line 4-6 times a game given his explosiveness around the basket.
 

Cesar Crespo

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DannyDarwinism

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FT rate was one of his stand-out stats at Cal too. With his strength, body control, and first step he should continue to excel at getting to the line, and hopefully, finishing in traffic. His anemic steal rate and poor A/TO (again following his college trend) are still concerning to me, but if he really tightens up his handle he's gonna have a nice arsenal for creating his own shot.
 

bowiac

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Not Jimmy Butler?

I think Jaylen is a better raw athlete than Butler, so there's an outside chance he'll become a true franchise guy, but a great second banana in the mold of Butler seems like a good 80th percentile projection for Jaylen. (Of course, you think about these things more analytically than I do, so I won't be surprised if you can identify a couple reasons why I'm clearly wrong.)
My main issue with the Butler comparison is Brown's passing. Butler's a tough guy to compare to, since he developed so much at a relatively late age, so almost everyone can be compared with him and come out looking good, but Brown hasn't really shown much in that department yet. It's a pretty key part of Butler's value that Brown looks to be missing.
 

cheech13

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The Jimmy Butler comparisons are so lazy. A lot of wing players have similar numbers in their first few seasons, but almost none of them end up as good as Butler.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yeah, this is my concern with Marcus. People seem to want him to drive more, but he's not athletic enough to get to the rim and finish. He gets gobbled up over and over again. He's such a weird, unique player.
This was my primary concern with him as a Top-3 player on a team coming out of college along with his ability to get to his spot on the floor with the dribble against quicker starting 1's. He got into the paint not by his athleticism which could translate but instead by bullying 6-1 175 lb guards from TCU and Iowa State to angles in the paint creating havoc. His 3-point shooting has remained remarkably "consistent" as he was at 30% in each of his OSU seasons as well.

Smart is the ideal 3rd guard and an extremely valuable one. Those wanting to make him out to be something he isn't are the ones left disappointed. He's a real good player in this league, a leader, and provides defensive versatility. This man is going to get paid when he comes due.


FT rate was one of his stand-out stats at Cal too. With his strength, body control, and first step he should continue to excel at getting to the line, and hopefully, finishing in traffic. His anemic steal rate and poor A/TO (again following his college trend) are still concerning to me, but if he really tightens up his handle he's gonna have a nice arsenal for creating his own shot.
Herein lays the enormous (imo) difference between how Jaylen and Smart's FT rate translates to this next level. Unlike Smart, Jaylen does possess these translatable athletic skills with his first step and body which still isn't fully developed. These are some of the reasons I projected Jaylen to be a full-time starter/2nd banana while Smart was that of a complementary player (not a dig, only what his skillset projects imo). I don't worry much about Jaylen's A/TO rate as his role in Cal was to score the ball against multiple defenders which by definition leads to less A and more TO.
 
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BigSoxFan

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If anyone is wondering what JB is doing this summer, he's releasing some videos. First installment here.

Thanks for sharing. I have no idea what he'll ultimately accomplish in his career but I'm comforted by the fact that he's taking this much more seriously than most kids his age. I'm expecting a pretty noticeable jump next year.
 

Valek123

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Te'a Cooper stands out in that video, her footwork is insane - makes the other two look sluggish.

Loving how seriously he is taking this off-season, he is critical to the next wave of the Celtics.
 

chilidawg

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Te'a Cooper stands out in that video, her footwork is insane - makes the other two look sluggish.

Loving how seriously he is taking this off-season, he is critical to the next wave of the Celtics.
I only watched the first part of it, and Te'a Cooper (if that's who that was) was insane. Gonna have to pick it up JB.

I'm very bullish on him for next season as well.
 

jmm57

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2nd video went up last week. I really like these

I have no idea how most guys train, but my biggest concern with Jaylen were the reports that he had so many interests outside of basketball, he seems to really be working hard
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Interesting comments from Danny on Jaylen in the video in this link: http://www.csnne.com/video/ainge-we-hang-phone-when-jaylen-brown-comes-trade-talks. Danny really likes Jaylen.

One comment to note. While the question comes from the interviewer, Danny does say that when Jaylen's name comes up in trade talks, it's "pretty close" to an immediate hang-up.

BTW, the video below is pretty cool, particularly since he does it with his left foot.
 

bowiac

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Just to be the turd in the punchbowl, I took a look at players 21 and under since 1992 to post a VORP comparable or worse to Jaylen's this year (-0.6 or worse), to see if any developed into good players.

Only nine of them ever put up a single year with at least 2 VORP later in their careers (comparable to Jae Crowder this year). Those were:

Mo Williams
Jeff Green
J.R. Smith
Smush Parker
Tristan Thompson
Marvin Williams
Troy Murphy
Richard Hamilton
Jamal Crawford

If you loosen the standard to having a BPM of -3.5 or worse and at least 500 minutes, you pick up a few more guys who had productive careers like Reggie Jackson, Jeff Teague, Kenny Anderson, and DeAndre Jordan but overall, it's a pretty bleak list regardless.

Now, this isn't a particularly sound analysis for any number of reasons, including that part of the reason Jaylen's VORP was so bad was that he played a lot - if he'd been worse, he may not have had the minutes to accumulate a bad VORP. It's not great to pick a rigid cutoff like -0.6. Plus there are all the inherent limitations of even the best box-score metrics like VORP. But it's kind of sobering all the same.
 

the moops

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I think we should also list the 20 and younger players, not 21 and younger, for Jaylen doesn't even turn 21 until the very beginning of next season.

And doing that, well, there aren't even that many players in history that were 20 years or younger and played as many minutes as Jaylen did. If we filter by > 1000 minutes (Jaylen was at 1341), you only get 87 players in the history of the game.

If you pick the cutoff of 0.0, you get players like Gordon Hayward, Andrew Wiggins, Shareef Abdur Rahim, Harrison Barnes, Jabari Parker, Rudy Gay.

And, if we just increase it a tad to 0.1 VORP, you get Kobe Bryant and Giannis Antekokounmpo
 

Cesar Crespo

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I'm on the fence with Jaylen. I think he's a bit overrated on the Celtics board but underrated around the league. It's very possible he just stalls or doesn't improve much, and it's possible he becomes a fringe all star. If you were to do a redraft of 2016, Jaylen would come in much lower than 3rd outside of New England.
 

bowiac

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I think we should also list the 20 and younger players, not 21 and younger, for Jaylen doesn't even turn 21 until the very beginning of next season.
This would make the list of success stories smaller, not larger. Your proposed limitation drops the list to 4 players: JR Smith, Tristan Thompson, Marvin Williams, and Jamal Crawford. I was being generous to Jaylen by including the 21 year olds.

If you pick the cutoff of 0.0, you get players like Gordon Hayward, Andrew Wiggins, Shareef Abdur Rahim, Harrison Barnes, Jabari Parker, Rudy Gay.

And, if we just increase it a tad to 0.1 VORP, you get Kobe Bryant and Giannis Antekokounmpo
This is not a minor change. Jaylen was a -4 player by BPM (the rate stat behind VORP). For him to be 0.0 in VORP, he'd need to be league average in BPM, which is a +4 shift. That is huge. That's like saying "if Jaylen had been one of the best rookies in the last 25 years, things would look promising." Okay, sure...but so what. He wasn't.

Again - box score stats aren't everything, but I think it's worth keeping them in mind here just the same.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mo Williams
Jeff Green
J.R. Smith
Smush Parker
Tristan Thompson
Marvin Williams
Troy Murphy
Richard Hamilton
Jamal Crawford
Don't you have to look at the type of player he is? I'd say that most of the guys on this list were role players who did one thing well and they are not comparable to JB at all.

Jeff Green is the closest physical comp and I know if Jaylen ends up with his career we're all going to be disappointed. But just from a numbers standpoint, if JB ends up somewhere around Hamilton or Marvin Williams, he'll at least have made a ton of money over his career.

Marvin Williams is an interesting comp. McDs All-American, drafted 2nd overall; All-rookie 2nd team but never made an All-Star team; for his career so far he is at 53.9 Win Shares and 9.9 VORP (also has been paid nearly $70M in salary); but to me Williams didn't have Jaylen physical upside or to my knowledge his work ethic.

From a non-statistics standpoint one thing I am sure of is that basketball is a game of skill that is limited only by one's physical limitations, basketball IQ, or willingness to pit in the work. To me, JB's tools and work ethic are unquestioned. So perhaps his BBall IQ (has nothing to do with intelligence) will limit his ceiling but I don't have any evidence of that. Very non-analytical statement I know but I am eager to see JB in summer league.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I'm on the fence with Jaylen. I think he's a bit overrated on the Celtics board but underrated around the league. It's very possible he just stalls or doesn't improve much, and it's possible he becomes a fringe all star. If you were to do a redraft of 2016, Jaylen would come in much lower than 3rd outside of New England.
This is surprising to read. Aside from Brogdon, who passes everyone not named Simmons, who else would Jaylen fall behind? I don't see another player from that class who leaps that much to clear the Jaylen hurdle.
 

Smokey Joe

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2001
1,155
Much as I like Jaylen Brown, it shocks me that anyone with any intelligence, let alone someone who attended Berkeley, would give any credence to the "pH balanced water" nonsense that he seems to do in the beginning of Episode 1.... Unless he was being sarcastic, in which case... nevermind.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
This is surprising to read. Aside from Brogdon, who passes everyone not named Simmons, who else would Jaylen fall behind? I don't see another player from that class who leaps that much to clear the Jaylen hurdle.
Some people prefer Ingram, Chriss, Scal, Hield. Quite a few people think JB is trash, honestly. Phoenix/Indiana/Chicago boards think he's basically a minor piece or throw in in a deal.

I don't get how people can look at JB's overall performance and think he really outperformed anyone. He had a few good moments.

They also had those 2 redrafts posted on this board that had Yabu and Zizic ahead of Jaylen.
 

Devizier

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SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,465
Somewhere
I'm on the fence with Jaylen. I think he's a bit overrated on the Celtics board but underrated around the league. It's very possible he just stalls or doesn't improve much, and it's possible he becomes a fringe all star. If you were to do a redraft of 2016, Jaylen would come in much lower than 3rd outside of New England.
Redraft or no, the 2016 class has not been particularly impressive to date.