He's also 29. Revis fell off a cliff at 30. If the financials are comparable, I'll stick with Malcom.
CB Sherman Watch: BB No Longer Interested?
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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Sherman might be favorite non-Patriot in the entire league. I would be positively giddy if he joined our secondary. Some have asked why we would spend so much of the cap on the secondary but I figure that if your pass rush figures to be mediocre (or worse), then you're going to need to pay a premium in the secondary or you'll get roasted. A Sherman for Butler trade clears a potential distraction (of course, it could create more if he starts chirping) and continues to give the Patriots 2 elite corners in a season where they'll be facing a ton of good QBs. It also allows for continued development of Rowe and the Jones' without too much pressure.
A secondary with Gilmore, Sherman, McCourty, and Harmon would probably be the best ball-hawking secondary this franchise has ever had and would be an amazing transition from the days of Kyle Arrington and Sterling Moore.
On the flip side, it would be pretty amazing if Malcolm Butler went to Seattle. He'd have to pick off like 10 passes his first season to win their adoration. They obviously know his skills but they're probably tired of all the Sherman distractions so replacing a top corner with a slightly worse one who won't ruffle any feathers may be attractive.
In the end, I'm not sure Belichick values Sherman enough to make this move vs. just giving money to J-Mac but wouldn't surprise me if he's considering it.
A secondary with Gilmore, Sherman, McCourty, and Harmon would probably be the best ball-hawking secondary this franchise has ever had and would be an amazing transition from the days of Kyle Arrington and Sterling Moore.
On the flip side, it would be pretty amazing if Malcolm Butler went to Seattle. He'd have to pick off like 10 passes his first season to win their adoration. They obviously know his skills but they're probably tired of all the Sherman distractions so replacing a top corner with a slightly worse one who won't ruffle any feathers may be attractive.
In the end, I'm not sure Belichick values Sherman enough to make this move vs. just giving money to J-Mac but wouldn't surprise me if he's considering it.
Butler would be owed about $20 million, Sherman about $26.8. I don't see that as about even, it's 33% more. Plus Butler is younger. I'll grant that Sherman may be a better player, but the money and age thing matter. I wouldn't move down here at all.
Sherman is loved in Seattle. Butler is hated. My diehard-Hawks-fan stepdaughter wants nothing to do with MB.
If those two were swapped, Seattle fans would feel like Sox fans would've felt in the post-2003 off-season if the Sox had traded Johnny Damon, say, for Boone. Except worse.
If those two were swapped, Seattle fans would feel like Sox fans would've felt in the post-2003 off-season if the Sox had traded Johnny Damon, say, for Boone. Except worse.
Good article on Sherman's broken relationship with Carroll and the 'Hawks:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19446657/seattle-seahawks-cornerback-richard-sherman-let-go-problem-nfl-2017
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19446657/seattle-seahawks-cornerback-richard-sherman-let-go-problem-nfl-2017
The Seahawks vaunted defense blew a 10 point fourth quarter lead in that Super Bowl, and the offense then drove them down to the 1 yard line with little time left and gave them an excellent chance to win the game before Butler made an amazing play.
Sherman sounds like a dick.
Sherman sounds like a dick.
My prediction: Sherman will be a Patriot in 2018 after Butler walks.
BB has never been shy about acquiring players who "sound like a dick" (cf. Moss, Dillon, Rodney, Chad 85, Revis).
BB has never been shy about acquiring players who "sound like a dick" (cf. Moss, Dillon, Rodney, Chad 85, Revis).
Totally agree about Sherman. Saying those things and acting on them is the hallmark of a bad teammate. And while I was intrigued by the thought of him coming to Foxboro, these comments make me doubly glad that the result thus far is more Butler.
That said, I don't blame Sherman for being annoyed that Wilson never expressed any remorse whatsoever. He didn't call the play but he in my view bears a portion of the blame. As a teammate, I think I would want to hear something along those lines from him, and hearing him say he would do it again --even though I get that there is an argument for that -- would annoy me. I'm not claiming this is all rational. But I can relate to his reaction inside about his QB as distinguished from his actions.
PS: I get that the Butler play was, of course, a lot about Butler and the Pats coaching...so there's no need to point that out, which inevitably happens when Seattle's contribution to the outcome is discussed.
That said, I don't blame Sherman for being annoyed that Wilson never expressed any remorse whatsoever. He didn't call the play but he in my view bears a portion of the blame. As a teammate, I think I would want to hear something along those lines from him, and hearing him say he would do it again --even though I get that there is an argument for that -- would annoy me. I'm not claiming this is all rational. But I can relate to his reaction inside about his QB as distinguished from his actions.
PS: I get that the Butler play was, of course, a lot about Butler and the Pats coaching...so there's no need to point that out, which inevitably happens when Seattle's contribution to the outcome is discussed.
I agree that nothing in that story would stop BB from acquiring a player who he thought would improve the team and I am sure Sherman would get with the program. There is a lot I like about Sherman but personally I think the finger pointing to the offense is a bad look.
Do you think for a second BB would ever not have enough desks for all the players, coaches, football ops staff, and anyone else who needed to be in a meeting or film session? No desk makes it harder to take notes. No chair makes it harder to sit and concentrate. Poor concentration makes it harder to prepare. No way in hell there aren't enough seats for people. And no way in hell BB lets it get to the point where people are throwing desks instead of working.
Sherman is definitely a dick, but only because Carroll lets him. Do you think BB would bring everyone together to sing Kumbaya if one guy started 2 fights in one practice? Hell no, he'd kick they guy out and then chew him a few new assholes while explaining get with program or start looking for a new team.
And Russell Wilson is overrated and comes across as a complete fake. He's definitely a decent QB, maybe the bottom of the second tier of QBs, top of the third. However the reason he is Super Bowl winning quarterback Russell Wilson is because of his defense. The defense outscored Denver's offense. In the first half. A safety and a pick six. Denver scored a TD and 2pt conversion.
Sherman is a dick, but he's a talented dick who loves football and goes 110% all the time. Who does that sound like? Bill Belichick. Tom Brady. He's Patriots material.
Wilson has always left a bad taste in my mouth. When he was mic'd up for the SB and he came off the field after that pick his attitude was almost like it was a preseason game. It was really weird. And the fact that he had no idea what happened on the pick would be concerning to me as a fan, and even more importantly, as a coach.
I'm not a huge fan of Wilson either, but I'm going to give him a pass for saying "what happened" in the heat of the moment after throwing a tragic (or epic, depending on your perspective) pick 6 in the biggest moment you can possibly imagine. I mean, it was an epic read and break on the ball by Malcolm.
Attributing it to a higher power is IMO a lame way of shirking accountability, but every player is different in terms of how they process failure on the biggest stage and rebound from losses like that. Sherman's competitiveness is obviously a huge part of what makes him great, but if the article is accurate and it's getting in the way of him being a good teammate 2+ years later, that's not healthy and I'd probably take Wilson's approach over Sherman's.
Attributing it to a higher power is IMO a lame way of shirking accountability, but every player is different in terms of how they process failure on the biggest stage and rebound from losses like that. Sherman's competitiveness is obviously a huge part of what makes him great, but if the article is accurate and it's getting in the way of him being a good teammate 2+ years later, that's not healthy and I'd probably take Wilson's approach over Sherman's.
Holy crap, this. Literally all I could think after reading that tidbit was, how the hell does a professional sports franchise not have enough desks for their players? Budget cuts?
Yup. The fans, commentators, and players??? who think that game was about the wrong play call or a poorly executed play - or who think that single play was more about the Seahawks than it was the Patriots - basically
fail an IQ test. Well, maybe that's unfair because Sherman seems like a bright guy, maybe he's trying to deflect attention from the fact - or his brain is just trying to subconsciously deny the fact- that HIS defense got torched by the GOAT. I mean, look how open Edelman is on the go-ahead touchdown, and notice how Edelman was in fact the second (Edit: actually THIRD) most open guy in the frame:
At the goal line in the fourth quarter the Seahawks defense was overmatched, and the Patriots defense made a great play. Fact and fact.
One of the words you always hear people use about the Patriots is "accountable". When they sucked in 2002, a number of players and coaches said, basically, "we were not accountable enough". To me, it means recognizing where you went wrong, owning your mistake, and fixing it. It starts with Brady, and flows from there. It distills down into "Do Your Job".
There is a fine line though between holding someone accountable and blaming/finger pointing. That article makes it look like Sherman is a finger pointer, and he may be, but it very well may be because of the way Carroll treats Wilson. The accountability isn't there. And maybe Sherman is right, that the team needs that. PFF graded Germain Ifedi as the worst first round pick last year, and one of the worst guards in the league overall. Maybe he should do something on the field before he gets in the face of a guy who has, you know, actually accomplished something in the NFL.
Richard Sherman is a smart dude, who clearly loves football. I think if he ended up here, he'd get with the program pretty quickly.
Holy crap, look how open Gronk is on that play.Yup. The fans, commentators, and players??? who think that game was about the wrong play call or a poorly executed play - or who think that single play was more about the Seahawks than it was the Patriots - basically
fail an IQ test. Well, maybe that's unfair because Sherman seems like a bright guy, maybe he's trying to deflect attention from the fact - or his brain is just trying to subconsciously deny the fact- that HIS defense got torched by the GOAT. I mean, look how open Edelman is on the go-ahead touchdown, and notice how Edelman was in fact the second (Edit: actually THIRD) most open guy in the frame:
At the goal line in the fourth quarter the Seahawks defense was overmatched, and the Patriots defense made a great play. Fact and fact.
I am not very religious but I always assumed that attributing a past event to god's plan was a simple way to close the door on it which strikes me as similar to Belichick's "we're on to Cincinnati" attitude.
If your energy and focus is directed on some thing that has already happened, you are kind of wasting energy. It's not like you can go back in time to change the outcome. If you focus on preparation for future tasks, however, your energy is well spent.
Put that shit in a lock box and move on.
If your energy and focus is directed on some thing that has already happened, you are kind of wasting energy. It's not like you can go back in time to change the outcome. If you focus on preparation for future tasks, however, your energy is well spent.
Put that shit in a lock box and move on.
Yeah, I mostly agree with this. I don't disagree with others that Sherman comes across as a bit asshole-ish but when you dig a little more, it does seem he cares about winning/accountability/etc. He should probably tighten up how frequently he yaps about it, but I could easily see a situation where Sherman on the Patriots would be a win-win. He would probably respect BB right off the bat when he got there.
The genius of BB, one of them anyway, is he seems to know how to deal with players and situations individually rather than falling back on a cliche every time. One story I love is when Milloy complained about a small hotel room for SB 36. Did BB ream him a new one, bench him for practice, joke to the media? No, he swapped rooms with him. Would any other coach do that? It's certainly not the cliched action of an "I'm in charge and you need to get with the program or get out" dictator. Yet it's all of a piece why players respect the hell out of him if not love him.
Then two years later he cut Milloy - bang!
Then two years later he cut Milloy - bang!
FWIW, Sherman (and Marty's brother) have both denied the ESPN story.
http://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2017/05/25/richard-sherman-calls-wickershams-espn-story-a-bunch-of-nonsense/
Not only do I think Sherman would be on board with "Doing His Job" immediately, I think he is dying to be in a situation where, in his own mind, his organization takes football as seriously as he does.
I think he's a dick, I'd gladly take him on my team.
http://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2017/05/25/richard-sherman-calls-wickershams-espn-story-a-bunch-of-nonsense/
Not only do I think Sherman would be on board with "Doing His Job" immediately, I think he is dying to be in a situation where, in his own mind, his organization takes football as seriously as he does.
I think he's a dick, I'd gladly take him on my team.
This is probably a "there are two sides to every story" thing. My guess is that many people in the Seahawks organization think it's waaaay overblown, many think it's absolutely spot on, and still others would be somewhere about the middle.
Regarding Sherman specifically: there are way more than two sides to any person. I really dislike a lot of his public personality, and at the same time respect his passion for football. Without more info, I'd rather he not join the Patriots, but I'm a "in Bill we trust" guy.
Regarding Sherman specifically: there are way more than two sides to any person. I really dislike a lot of his public personality, and at the same time respect his passion for football. Without more info, I'd rather he not join the Patriots, but I'm a "in Bill we trust" guy.
That is a genius way to handle it, but in the social sense. Milloy presumably wanted the Pats to pay for a nice suite. Instead he feels vaguely like a jerk for making his coach move, while simultaneously having to accept the unstated reproof that his old room was plenty big.
The Seahawks defense definitely deserves some blame for that Super Bowl loss, but they also lost their starting cornerback to a broken leg in the first half and their second best defensive lineman to a concussion in the third quarter.
I completely understand why Sherman is still pissed. What Seahawks player or fan isn't? That was a chance at a dynasty and it ended in such bizarre fashion, but to pin all the blame on Russell Wilson is dumb.
As far as Wilson being a bottom of the second tier quarterback, well, you are smoking crack if you believe that.
I completely understand why Sherman is still pissed. What Seahawks player or fan isn't? That was a chance at a dynasty and it ended in such bizarre fashion, but to pin all the blame on Russell Wilson is dumb.
As far as Wilson being a bottom of the second tier quarterback, well, you are smoking crack if you believe that.
Yeah I see Wilson solidly in the 6th-to-10th ranks of "not elite game-changing talents, but does most everything competently and will occasionally make great plays out of nothing". At least half the teams the league would love to have Russell Wilson, maybe two-thirds. He still might be a little crazy, though.
A "give us your ranking of NFL starting QBs" thread might make for interesting discussion.
A "give us your ranking of NFL starting QBs" thread might make for interesting discussion.
Though not as dumb as Wilson never acknowledging any culpability to his teammates.
We don't know that he hasn't done that. The story says there was some sort of bitchfest about that play on a ledge in Hawaii where Russell had flown everyone to.
Anyway, all of this is interesting. I hope Sherman can find a way to co-exist with the team and have a big season.
"The most important thing at quarterback, and a leader in general, is accountability," he said. "So what happened in Super Bowl 49, I take full responsibility for it."
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/12348398/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-takes-responsibility-super-bowl-xlix-interception
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/12348398/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-takes-responsibility-super-bowl-xlix-interception
Wow, I never noticed how wide open Gronk was on this playYup. The fans, commentators, and players??? who think that game was about the wrong play call or a poorly executed play - or who think that single play was more about the Seahawks than it was the Patriots - basically
fail an IQ test. Well, maybe that's unfair because Sherman seems like a bright guy, maybe he's trying to deflect attention from the fact - or his brain is just trying to subconsciously deny the fact- that HIS defense got torched by the GOAT. I mean, look how open Edelman is on the go-ahead touchdown, and notice how Edelman was in fact the second (Edit: actually THIRD) most open guy in the frame:
At the goal line in the fourth quarter the Seahawks defense was overmatched, and the Patriots defense made a great play. Fact and fact.
I never noticed this. Completely unaccounted for. That said, TB12's whole body was going to Edelman's side before he really gets released.
I think that may have something to do with how bad he thew it the last time he was wide open, same play.
I don't think that necessarily means that he's owned his share of the responsibility for the Butler play to his teammates. That to me seems more like a generic "the buck stops here" for the media.
I don't know if you read the story, but the quote is from a video he posted on the Players Tribune. Now, maybe he said that and the other things quoted from the video for "generic" reasons for the media and the fans -- but refused to say the same to his teammates -- but without proof, I doubt it
I see him about there as well, though more likely in the 8-10 range. Which to me also puts him in the bottom half of the 2nd tier of QBs.
Without derailing the thread, this and Instaface's quote are where I stand. Wilson us than your average QB, but not great/elite. He will win you games but won't carry a team for a season.
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To be a dynasty, don't you need to have a period of sustained championships/excellence? In other words, even if they won that SB they would still need to win a couple more. They haven't been able to pull it together in the years since to even make it back to the SB.
As for Sherman joining the Pats and replacing MB, he's not a FA until 2019 unless the Seahawks cut or trade him. He is also due to make around $11 mil/yr. How much of a haircut will he be willing to accept to join a winner? Also would he be willing to settle for a 1-2 year deal given his age?
