The sixers and building a winner

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Cesar Crespo

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Yeah, if Simmons is back there is definitely value there. Good catch. I really can't wait to see Simmons play. If he lives up to the hype and Embiid can stay on the court, they're going to hard to stop.
 

LondonSox

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I think they keep him, until the end of the season and see what the market is. Or just sign him.

But that is wishful thinking perhaps. I think he's improved offensively this season and 3 bigs of Embiid Noel and Holmes is constant rim aggression and both ends. Embiid is physical, Noel is more skill, speed and hands (really good with his hands defensively hence the high steals) and Holmes is effort and aggression.
 

JCizzle

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According to ESPN’s Ramona Shelburne, the Pelicans had offered the same package minus Hield to the 76ers in exchange for Jahlil Okafor
What the hell were they thinking not taking this deal? The Kings are dumb for dumping Cousins for basically nothing, but you have to imagine the Sixers aren't going to get another offer remotely close to this, right?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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What the hell were they thinking not taking this deal? The Kings are dumb for dumping Cousins for basically nothing, but you have to imagine the Sixers aren't going to get another offer remotely close to this, right?
worked out better for Sixers. Next year they are going to get a top-5 pick from the Kings.

And while the offers are being reported as "similar," I suspect the protections on the 1st round draft pick were not.
 

LondonSox

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What the hell were they thinking not taking this deal? The Kings are dumb for dumping Cousins for basically nothing, but you have to imagine the Sixers aren't going to get another offer remotely close to this, right?
Story is that the pick was top 20 protected, ie never happening. So I can understand that.
I'd rather the extra value of the swap pick and 2019 than a long term future late 1st. Esp as you can still move Okafor now.

My first reaction was the same though until I heard the top 20 part.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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They own the 2019 pick, not 2018, so Philly would benefit from any Cousins trade over the next couple seasons. An Okafor trade is more time sensitive.
OK, thought they had 2018 not 2019 so thanks for pointing that out.

But I still think that the Sixers are more happy about the trade that was made than the trade that wasn't made.
 

LondonSox

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It doesn't.

I can survive trading Noel given he clearly wasn't going to pay him as he's an idiot. But keeping Okafor means he's a straight moron.

The team is playing pace, ball movement and the extra pass and great defense. So instead of the athletic defender who is improving offensively keep the slow, non defender, non passer post player.

I'm so pissed
 

Cellar-Door

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It doesn't.

I can survive trading Noel given he clearly wasn't going to pay him as he's an idiot. But keeping Okafor means he's a straight moron.

The team is playing pace, ball movement and the extra pass and great defense. So instead of the athletic defender who is improving offensively keep the slow, non defender, non passer post player.

I'm so pissed
To be fair everything I've seen is that PHI still wants to move Okafor at the draft, they just couldn't get a deal for him at the deadline. It's a clear case of holding out for more, then having the guy's stock fall through the floor on you. He figured if nobody would give him even a late 1st might as well hold him and hope his value rebounds a little (or Magic can be talked into a deal).
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think whoever ends up paying Noel regrets it soon after. They should be looking to get rid of Noel and Okafor. 1 down, 1 to go.
 

LondonSox

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I think whoever ends up paying Noel regrets it soon after. They should be looking to get rid of Noel and Okafor. 1 down, 1 to go.
That's cool I disagree. Young athletic bigs who can rim protect switch onto wings and even guards, are great roll men in the pnr and have the best steals numbers of any young center ever, these guys don't grow on trees.
LEt alone he's improved offensively

61% eFG%
True shooting of 63%
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noelne01.html

119 ofensive rating per 100 and 101 defensive.
Yeah don't sign him. 2 seconds sound good
 

Cellar-Door

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That's cool I disagree. Young athletic bigs who can rim protect switch onto wings and even guards, are great roll men in the pnr and have the best steals numbers of any young center ever, these guys don't grow on trees.
LEt alone he's improved offensively

61% eFG%
True shooting of 63%
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noelne01.html

119 ofensive rating per 100 and 101 defensive.
Yeah don't sign him. 2 seconds sound good
He's played 500 minutes and his offense has basically been almost entirely dunks, his overall offensive game is still best described as "super raw". Listen he has talent, and I love his defense, but he's gonna get paid, he has attitude concerns and he's had a long history of injuries.
I can see the upside, I can also see that he's not a guy I want to pay a ton of money to when I have an incredible young center, and I just drafted a guy with no outside shot #1 overall.
 

LondonSox

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Fair enough. I was more annoyed that losing Noel made keeping okafor more likely to be honest.
It seems clear Colangelo is where you are. So I'm not upset about losing Noel for small return, I personally think that they have more picks than roster spots and there is a chance no one goes nuts for Noel, especially knowing Philly can match and has nothing but cap space, they're well sub the floor with multiple rookies to come.
Would I match a max? maybe but it's easy if the best offer he gets is low and I'd rather have AND a chance to see if Noel and Embiid can play together than a Bogut buyout and 2 seconds. Some people like this wing that came though.

I just wanted okafor gone. Now he's staying and by playing he lowers his value each time!
 

cheech13

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Is Nerlens Noel any better than Spencer Hawes was when Hinkie shipped him out for 2nd round picks? He's better at some things for sure, but it doesn't seem like the new group feels like he's part of the long-term plan.
 

LondonSox

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Is Nerlens Noel any better than Spencer Hawes was when Hinkie shipped him out for 2nd round picks? He's better at some things for sure, but it doesn't seem like the new group feels like he's part of the long-term plan.
Yes he's better than Hawes and even comparing them makes you look ridiculous
 

LondonSox

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Bottom line the sixers must be convinced that someone would pay more than they would for him. That's fine. If they think someone is going to max him then get whatever I guess.

But if people are so interested paying him so much why was there no interest in a trade?
 

BigSoxFan

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Bottom line the sixers must be convinced that someone would pay more than they would for him. That's fine. If they think someone is going to max him then get whatever I guess.

But if people are so interested paying him so much why was there no interest in a trade?
The bigger question for me is why don't you just wait until the summer and see what his offers are? Are a couple of 2nd rounders and Justin Anderson really worth it?

The Sixers have like $35M in salaries committed next year and are obviously well below the salary cap floor. Embiid is an automax guy if he stays healthy but that bill is a couple years away. Ditto for Simmons but he's several years away. Saric won't be a RFA until 2020. And nobody else on that roster is worth a shit.

No quality FAs are signing in Philly anytime soon with so many other better possible options. I really don't get why you wouldn't just let the market set Noel's value and decide then. I'd rather pay him than some useless Gerald Henderson / Jerryd Bayless types.
 

BigSoxFan

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Yes exactly

And now lots of rumours that Simmons CT scan was bad and he's out for the season.

I'm just going to go drink heavily over here and hate everything.
Yup. Lost season for him. The Sixers have now lost 4 full seasons from their 3 top 6 draft picks since 2013. This franchise is really in a tenuous position. They really need to catch a break and get LA's pick this year. Next year that pick could easily be far less valuable if Magic is able to make some good moves and Russell/Ingram make some strides.
 

bowiac

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Why? PHI will have another lottery pick and possible a second one as well. Next year, they'll start with Embiid, Saric, Simmons, Monk, and someone else and they'll be in the playoff hunt from day 1. What's the problem?
I know Joel Embiid missed two years, and came back as the GOAT, but it's also probably not great for Simmons' development to miss a full year (on top of reinjury risk as Cellar-Door mentions).
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Probably should have used one of those emojis thingies in my original post. Was mostly trying to make London feel better; he's got enough going on.

But on a more serious note, if you go back to the original reports in October, they did speculate he'd be out all year (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/sixers-ben-simmons-undergoes-jones-fracture-surgery-no-timetable-for-return/). KD has the same injury I believe. The Sixers get to stack up even more lottery talent.

It's all just part of the Process. :)
 

TheRooster

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Well this just shows another risk that is part of the process. Some guys aren't able to withstand playing 100 games per year. If you acquire a 3-5 year vet you can be more (but certainly not 100 percent) confident that his body will cooperate.
 

LondonSox

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Do appreciate the effort!
Having read up a bit it seems it's hardest to know a timescale when the player is still growing (as per Embiid and now simmons)

We shall see. I just want him healthy so holding him out seems sensible. It's been a dumb communication and that is supposedly what Hinkie was guilty of
 

LondonSox

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Saric has been playing out of his mind recently. Have to raise my ceiling on him, because he's showing an extended period of play where he's the best player on the team, as a rookie.
 

Cesar Crespo

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They almost made a great comeback tonight but fell a point short. Saric continues to play well and even Okafor had a big game.
 

smastroyin

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This is not surprising given what's gone down to this point. However, the Sixers have finally admitted that Embiid is out indefinitely.

Guess Okafor will be getting a (nother) big chance here.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
Embiid expressed frustration with how this recent knee issue has been handled. I wonder if they are shutting him down to tank/prevent future issues or if there is another serious health issue.
 

smastroyin

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I don't think so. There's a difference between having an overabundance of caution (completely appropriate for them) and outright lying about an injury. I know it's kind of given that people think NBA teams lie all the time about injuries (like the C's with Pierce in 2006) but the league is really trying to stop tanking culture and essentially gifted the GM job to Colangelo, so I can't really see them doing this on purpose now. As well, they are actually sending him for an MRI, so I think they are legitimately worried about structural damage.
 

BigSoxFan

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Embiid expressed frustration with how this recent knee issue has been handled. I wonder if they are shutting him down to tank/prevent future issues or if there is another serious health issue.
I know someone on the inside who has spoken directly with Joel and asked about the knee. There is real concern there - nothing to do with tanking.
 

cheech13

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Joel Embiid played 31 games across his first three seasons in the NBA. Greg Oden, for comparison, played 82.

Somewhat shockingly he's a RFA next summer (2018). I'm guessing he's a max guy just based on potential but I don't envy the GM or owner who has to make that decision.
 

johnmd20

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Joel Embiid played 31 games across his first three seasons in the NBA. Greg Oden, for comparison, played 82.

Somewhat shockingly he's a RFA next summer (2018). I'm guessing he's a max guy just based on potential but I don't envy the GM or owner who has to make that decision.
Joel Embiid is most certainly not a max guy.
 

DJnVa

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Based on his history it's foolhardy to project what he's gonna get. If he plays 35 games next year no one is giving him the max.
 

moondog80

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If he's reasonably healthy next year, Philly gives him he max. What else are they going to do with all that cap space, it's not like they will attract any high quality free agents from other teams.
 

Cesar Crespo

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It will be funny and ironic if/when Dario Saric ends up being their best player to show for all these drafts where they picked in the top 3.
 
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