2016-2017 NC Hoops: Heel Turn

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Did you watch the game last night? The players, at least it appeared to me, were talking amongst themselves in timeouts and ignoring him. I'm surprised he is finishing out the season.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
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22 first half points from "probably the most efficient offense in the country" VA against UNC tonight.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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VA adds 5 more points in the first seven minutes as they continue their offensive assault on the NCAA
Five more minutes + 2 more points for the best (probably) offensive team in the country against the putrid defense of UNC
 

Greg29fan

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That was the fewest points any opponent has scored against the Heels with Roy as the coach. Had been 42 against NC Central a few years ago.
 

rhopkins2323

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Mar 14, 2010
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Big weekend in Chapel Hill. Kevin Knox was at the game and made his official visit. He is a kid UNC needs as they have lost on just about every 5 star recruit the last couple years.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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I agree it's a big recruit. But even with all those five star recruits that we can't land we've done nothing but win the regular season of the hardest conference in America, the ACC tournament and continue to book rooms at the Final Four.

The names on the back of the jersey change and the prestige with which high school recruiting websites hold them in changes but Carolina continues on, it seems, in excellence.
 

DukeSox

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Last two times Duke "booked rooms" they actually won the thing
 

rhopkins2323

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I agree it's a big recruit. But even with all those five star recruits that we can't land we've done nothing but win the regular season of the hardest conference in America, the ACC tournament and continue to book rooms at the Final Four.

The names on the back of the jersey change and the prestige with which high school recruiting websites hold them in changes but Carolina continues on, it seems, in excellence.
Sure, you're right about the winning, but those teams all had top 30ish recruits leading them. After this year, it's not looking great.

2015 class was a total miss and probably cost them a National championship. 2016 is TBD, 2017 isn't good by the rankings as they are brining in 3 guys ranked outside the top 200. That would be 3 straight years of average to below average recruiting classes.

To win the National Championship, you typically need NBA first round picks. Not sure there are any NBA players on UNC next year. You can argue Bradley, but he doesn't have that type of impact on a team....yet.

The lack of studs coming in will catch up to them at some point. Do you really feel good about the roster next year without Hicks, Meeks, and Jackson? I don't know where the points come from. Need huge development leaps from Woods and Bradley.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
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Sure, you're right about the winning, but those teams all had top 30ish recruits leading them. After this year, it's not looking great.

2015 class was a total miss and probably cost them a National championship. 2016 is TBD, 2017 isn't good by the rankings as they are brining in 3 guys ranked outside the top 200. That would be 3 straight years of average to below average recruiting classes.

To win the National Championship, you typically need NBA first round picks. Not sure there are any NBA players on UNC next year. You can argue Bradley, but he doesn't have that type of impact on a team....yet.

The lack of studs coming in will catch up to them at some point. Do you really feel good about the roster next year without Hicks, Meeks, and Jackson? I don't know where the points come from. Need huge development leaps from Woods and Bradley.
I know, I was just trying to spin it all positive.

I'm not going to think about or analyze next year in the heart of this one though.
 

garlan5

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May 13, 2009
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48 in OT for Garlan's "probably most efficient offensive team in the country."
Well statistically they were at the time I made the comment. You may have disagreed because I was using adjusted offensive efficiency. I blame you bastards for the shit show as you clearly jinxed them! Lol. They haven't played as bad as they have this week all year and maybe since 2012. They aren't hitting free throws although yesterday was better until late. Not hitting 3s as usual. The defense has been bad this year compared to what I'm used to. For uva that's what they feed off of and it changes their whole offensive style when they struggle on defense. Also this year Bennett isn't making his normal second half adjustments. In the past they were known to struggle in the first half and pull away in the second. Polar opposite this year. Until this week I was rather surprised how well they were playing as I expected a semi down year. Losing Austin nichols was rough as he was our stop gap until next year.

After all that I'll eat crow. Not much to say after 4 turd games. This isn't the same team that lost to nova via tip in.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
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I actually think VA will be fine and, like you, I expected a down year. I'm just having fun with you. I think VA has more going for them in the next 3-5 years than Carolina, unfortunately for me.
 

garlan5

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I actually think VA will be fine and, like you, I expected a down year. I'm just having fun with you. I think VA has more going for them in the next 3-5 years than Carolina, unfortunately for me.
From the local uva boards you would think the world is ending. We've heard rumors that Nichols might be given a shot to play next year if he can get his life together. All rumors and you'll never read that in print anywhere. Interesting to hear you think UNC might be trending down. I don't keep up with other teams recruiting like I do uva and I always expect Carolina and Duke to reload every 2 years. The ACC is tremendous right now with so many teams doing well even with down years (to an extent) for Miami, Uva, and ND.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
From the local uva boards you would think the world is ending. We've heard rumors that Nichols might be given a shot to play next year if he can get his life together. All rumors and you'll never read that in print anywhere. Interesting to hear you think UNC might be trending down. I don't keep up with other teams recruiting like I do uva and I always expect Carolina and Duke to reload every 2 years. The ACC is tremendous right now with so many teams doing well even with down years (to an extent) for Miami, Uva, and ND.
We have a huge cloud over the program with the fake classes scandal. Eventually the NCAA is going to levy sanctions and they could be pretty serious. The longer they wait though the easier it is for other teams to easily scare off potential recruits (and I don't blame them). We have primarily been getting recruits in the 50-100 range (by most ranking services) the last couple years and if Knox does not sign then we will continue that trend with the next class. We've been fortunate that a guy like Jackson stayed but beginning next year we will most likely be taking a pretty significant step back with no reloading in sight.
 

uk_sox_fan

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Nov 11, 2006
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As much as I enjoy rooting against the Tar Heels that's a real shame. Far rather watch my team beat a talented team on the court than witness a proud University hobbled by scandal and enter the wilderness. Never understood the schadenfreude that some seem to thrive on when their rival becomes an also-ran for a few years.

On a happier note I just found out that my old team, Duke men's swimming, beat Carolina for the first time since 1939 and the women won for the first time ever. http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=211440391

The rivalry is on!
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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Dec 22, 2005
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witness a proud University hobbled by scandal and enter the wilderness.
How the fuck is this phrased? You make it sound like some external forces caused their problems. It was fucking self inflicted on purpose cheating for decades.

Fuck 'em.
 

uk_sox_fan

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How the fuck is this phrased? You make it sound like some external forces caused their problems. It was fucking self inflicted on purpose cheating for decades.

Fuck 'em.
I know full well they did it to themselves. But the 'they' that did it were the administrators and professors and (likely) coaches. It doesn't include the fans that suffer just as much or more so than they would if the causes were external.

Plus you missed what I said. I wasn't absolving UNC of blame for what they did to themselves - I'm lamenting the fact that soon and for a few years the best rivalry in college basketball will be cheapened. I watch college hoops because I enjoy it. That enjoyment comes from watching them overcome challenges and succeed against supremely talented rivals. I tend not to watch when Duke plays weaker teams early in the season even though it's virtually guaranteed that they'll win because it's not as enjoyable as a tough ACC matchup. If you're honest with yourself you're the same way.
 

JShams

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What kind of world are we living in where you can't tell Rick Pitino he sucks? That is objectively true.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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Dec 22, 2005
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I know full well they did it to themselves. But the 'they' that did it were the administrators and professors and (likely) coaches. It doesn't include the fans that suffer just as much or more so than they would if the causes were external.

Plus you missed what I said. I wasn't absolving UNC of blame for what they did to themselves - I'm lamenting the fact that soon and for a few years the best rivalry in college basketball will be cheapened. I watch college hoops because I enjoy it. That enjoyment comes from watching them overcome challenges and succeed against supremely talented rivals. I tend not to watch when Duke plays weaker teams early in the season even though it's virtually guaranteed that they'll win because it's not as enjoyable as a tough ACC matchup. If you're honest with yourself you're the same way.
I lament the fact that they were cheating for 20 years - that takes away from those decades of games.

And even then Duke had a better head to head record. I can only imagine what a one sided thing it would have been had UNC-CH not been cheating the whole time.

You can tell all of this is getting under the skin of those poor innocent UNC-CH fans when they curse out the coach of a team that has had the nerve to actually win a national championship this decade!!

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18745266/fan-ejected-north-carolina-tar-heels-home-game-exchange-louisville-cardinals-coach-rick-pitino
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
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I'm going to be hoarse tomorrow. The crowd was really great tonight (obviously except for that asshole which I only heard about on the drive home listening to the postgame).

Our defense was, again, spectacular. Hicks still needs to stop making stupid fouls. It dumbfounds me that he is still doing this as a Senior. Bradley played ridiculously good post-D in his absence though.

Every time Louisville made a run Theo made a play. He had a cross-over to gorgeous acrobatic layup that will probably be the 2nd best play on Sportscenter tonight (if they still do that). I assume the first will be from a game further north.
 

Greg29fan

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I'm going to be hoarse tomorrow. The crowd was really great tonight (obviously except for that asshole which I only heard about on the drive home listening to the postgame).
All he said was Pitino sucks according to local news. I can't believe Rick flipped out like that when he has to hear things a trillion times worse in Lexington every other year.
 

rhopkins2323

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Mar 14, 2010
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I lament the fact that they were cheating for 20 years - that takes away from those decades of games.

And even then Duke had a better head to head record. I can only imagine what a one sided thing it would have been had UNC-CH not been cheating the whole time.

You can tell all of this is getting under the skin of those poor innocent UNC-CH fans when they curse out the coach of a team that has had the nerve to actually win a national championship this decade!!

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18745266/fan-ejected-north-carolina-tar-heels-home-game-exchange-louisville-cardinals-coach-rick-pitino
I can't tell if you're serious or half kidding. But if cheating and bad ethics upset you, you shouldn't follow college sports. Take how bad and how often you believe cheating occurs and multiply that number by 100. Your good old Dukies may not have had fake classes, but you can be assured they aren't squeaky clean
 
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Greg29fan

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If you guys want to rehash the fucking scandal, or try to distract from Duke losing tonight, there's a thread for it.
 

heavyde050

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Nov 17, 2006
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I lament the fact that they were cheating for 20 years - that takes away from those decades of games.

And even then Duke had a better head to head record. I can only imagine what a one sided thing it would have been had UNC-CH not been cheating the whole time.

You can tell all of this is getting under the skin of those poor innocent UNC-CH fans when they curse out the coach of a team that has had the nerve to actually win a national championship this decade!!

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18745266/fan-ejected-north-carolina-tar-heels-home-game-exchange-louisville-cardinals-coach-rick-pitino
Duke may not have a cheating scandal like UNC in its history but give me a break on taking the high road.
Duke let Kyrie Irving into its university and say what you want about college athletes but that guy thinks the earth is flat in 2017. There is no way he was making the grade at Duke on his own.
That is what major universities will make concessions for star athletes: to win.
What UNC did was super wrong but I am sure some degree of that type of stuff happens at most major universities.
So even if what UNC did was so bad for 20 years it isn't like the other universities weren't also taking some lesser liberties with the rules.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
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He said "Pitino, you suck." according to ESPN reporting. We were not far from where it occurred and I didn't see anything. But there was a dude setting up a trampoline/chair stunt that I was far more interested in at the moment.
 

BigSoxFan

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He said "Pitino, you suck." according to ESPN reporting. We were not far from where it occurred and I didn't see anything. But there was a dude setting up a trampoline/chair stunt that I was far more interested in at the moment.
Man, I was hoping for an Italian restaurant reference. That's disappointing.
 

Greg29fan

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Been a real treat watching Justin Jackson become the player he's become. He put in the hard work refining his shot and him and the Heels are reaping the reward.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Yep, and a big road win today. Now got to turn around and play at VA Monday night.

Meanwhile, Duke fighting for their lives in Coral Gables.
 

Greg29fan

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And Duke is eliminated from ACC regular season title consideration, meaning UNC is the #1 seed in Brooklyn (God that's weird).
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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Dec 22, 2005
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Really weird to see this. There was a sense, even in this thread, that this was a once in a generation team.
Well the preseason NPOY didn't play today.

K said in the press conference after the Syracuse games he was going to rest players ahead of march even if it meant losses

It's a long season
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Not sure how relevant preseason "awards" are at this point. Duke was also voted preseason favorites the win the conference that Carolina just won...again.
 

DukeSox

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Players not playing because they are hurt is relevant to outcomes
 

tims4wins

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Really weird to see this. There was a sense, even in this thread, that this was a once in a generation team.
Been a very weird and obviously disappointing season. The big 3 freshmen didn't practice much until December. Then Jefferson got hurt. Then the Allen incident. Then the K surgery. Now Allen and Jones are nursing injuries.

Tatum has been mostly as advertised. Bolden will be an NBA player but clearly doesn't have the trust of the staff. And Giles... not even sure what to say at this point. I never saw him at his peak of being a prospect but he barely looks like be belongs on the court most of the time. Will be very interesting to see if he still decides to come out (Bolden too).

Next year they may end up having Allen, Kennard, Giles, and Jackson back, with the possibility of Bolden too. They could be really strong.

But yeah this year was supposed to be fantastic freshman class joining 4 very good veterans in Allen, Kennard, Jones, and Jefferson, so you could see why it was hyped like it was. The freshmen haven't come close to expectations, and the vets have all had injuries save Kennard, and thus they are a good team losing games in a great conference.

I realize K is resting guys for March but I still see a second round loss.
 

BigSoxFan

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Been a very weird and obviously disappointing season. The big 3 freshmen didn't practice much until December. Then Jefferson got hurt. Then the Allen incident. Then the K surgery. Now Allen and Jones are nursing injuries.

Tatum has been mostly as advertised. Bolden will be an NBA player but clearly doesn't have the trust of the staff. And Giles... not even sure what to say at this point. I never saw him at his peak of being a prospect but he barely looks like be belongs on the court most of the time. Will be very interesting to see if he still decides to come out (Bolden too).

Next year they may end up having Allen, Kennard, Giles, and Jackson back, with the possibility of Bolden too. They could be really strong.

But yeah this year was supposed to be fantastic freshman class joining 4 very good veterans in Allen, Kennard, Jones, and Jefferson, so you could see why it was hyped like it was. The freshmen haven't come close to expectations, and the vets have all had injuries save Kennard, and thus they are a good team losing games in a great conference.

I realize K is resting guys for March but I still see a second round loss.
All about matchups. This Duke team is going to make or ruin a lot of brackets. Really wouldn't be surprised with any outcome. Talent is there for a deep run but inconsistency of the team makes them hard to project. I'm thinking an Elite 8 loss sounds about right.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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The Saturday - Monday road trip gets us hard in Virginia and their ridiculous defense combined with a newfound ability to hit threes embarrasses us badly. Will have to beat Duke at home on Saturday to win back-to-back outright ACC regular season titles. Tough loss even if a bit expected with the schedule and VA's needing it so badly.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Yep, terrible all season. What's our best road win? Wake?

It took OT to beat Clemson. State sucks. Pitt is...not great. Boston College is awful. Tulane and Hawaii. That's it. Shit-tay.
 

garlan5

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Kyle Guy has been working hard to get open and he was rewarded tonight. Well us uva fans were. A tough win with a few starters with the flu. I'm surprised with unc and Jackson not being more aggressive. Devon Hall did a job on defense.
 

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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Afternoon plans fell through, quick check of Stub Hub to gauge ticket prices for UNC-Duke and they're $410---a bit too steep to justify. Would have been a fun, last minute solo road trip.