2016-2017 NC Hoops: Heel Turn

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
True, but there was serious talk about Duke going undefeated. Posters in this thread talked about engraving trophies and printing banners before the first practice.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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Dec 22, 2005
11,740
Before half the team was out 2 months with serious leg injuries, yes i agree
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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Dec 22, 2005
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That was duke's 19th game of the season.

4th game that they have had their top 8 players all actually available to play.

It's still November for this team. But they need to learn quick.
 

hawaiirsn

Member
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Sep 22, 2006
757
Honolulu, HI
I obtained two free guest tickets for Duke game vs NC State on Monday night. Unfortunately guests have to be 18+ (who knows why, maybe because they're standing only) but if any SoSHers are interested in joining me at the game standing in the grad student sections behind the baskets, send me a PM
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
I've seen NC State in person a handful of times this year. They are legitimately garbage.

Against UNC, at UNC, Joel Berry held Dennis Smith to 11 points and six turnovers. It was clear, and has been clear, that while Smith is an excellent talent, he will get destroyed by experienced teams because NC State's coaching sucks, their game plan sucks and the other players that he plays with? They suck. UNC beat NC State, at UNC, by 51 points. It was a great day at the Smith Center but never competitive.

Duke appears to have all of their guys back, expecting the team to come together and turn into that juggernaut DukeSox predicted. I know they had some early season struggles but with the whole team healthy now they are going to be scary.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,740
This game really illuminates that in terms of reputation there is Duke, then the rest of The Conference. NC State, a team going nowhere this season in terms of postseason, got themselves way more hyped up to play Duke than any other teams in the triangle.
 

Greg29fan

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Jul 14, 2005
20,478
NC
I've seen NC State in person a handful of times this year. They are legitimately garbage.

Against UNC, at UNC, Joel Berry held Dennis Smith to 11 points and six turnovers. It was clear, and has been clear, that while Smith is an excellent talent, he will get destroyed by experienced teams because NC State's coaching sucks, their game plan sucks and the other players that he plays with? They suck. UNC beat NC State, at UNC, by 51 points. It was a great day at the Smith Center but never competitive.

Duke appears to have all of their guys back, expecting the team to come together and turn into that juggernaut DukeSox predicted. I know they had some early season struggles but with the whole team healthy now they are going to be scary.
Duke's Achilles heel was, is, and will be, even without Coach K, that they don't have a point guard. For all his foibles, Allen has tried to fit in there and has done all right, but he's not a true PG, and in a league dominated by point guard play (Berry, Perrantes at UVA, Quen Snyder, Smith, even the BC kids), you have to have one.

Duke won with OADs two years ago b/c Tyus Jones was an animal there and made that team run.
 

IdiotKicker

Member
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Nov 21, 2005
10,762
Somerville, MA
PG is definitely an issue, but the lack of any interior defensive presence aside from Jefferson is a problem, their defensive rotations are garbage right now, and they look hideously incapable of just moving the ball on offense right now. Ball stops for 10 seconds every time it goes to Tatum, Kennard looks tired from playing 40 mins a game for the first two months, and Grayson still isn't himself on a consistent basis. It's not particularly pretty right now.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
47,038
This game really illuminates that in terms of reputation there is Duke, then the rest of The Conference. NC State, a team going nowhere this season in terms of postseason, got themselves way more hyped up to play Duke than any other teams in the triangle.
And the Duke teams of the past that were actually good would have slammed them. This Duke team is missing something.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
Great trivia I saw: last time State won at Duke was in 1995 and, just as yesterday, Coach K was not coaching.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,740
Duke appears to have all of their guys back, expecting the team to come together and turn into that juggernaut DukeSox predicted. I know they had some early season struggles but with the whole team healthy now they are going to be scary.
Chase Jeter - an experienced, inside big man - was out with a herniated disk. He would have helped immensely last night defending against NC State's bigs who kept throwing down dunks. So, not quite exactly "whole team healthy".

That said - it feels like there are too many cooks in the kitchen. Tatum is going to be a monster one day (not this year), but is being held back from really having this be his team because of the presence of good vets - Allen and Kennard, Kennard unexpectedly leading the team in scoring. Jefferson and Jones have to play for defense. Then Bolden and Giles have to play minutes. There are just too many weird fitting pieces at different positions/experience levels for a real rotation to have formed, given the coaches have been juggling all of this due to injuries for three months now.

2015 worked because everyone knew it was the three freshmans' team.

2010 worked because everyone knew it was the five junior/seniors' team.

2017 is just an odd mashup of players. Lots of talent but you cant put it all on the floor at once. At some point K needs to just decide on a 5 and go with it. But oh wait he's out due to injury as well...
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
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Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
Great post and points. I actually think the primary difference in the two games is the Pg position. Duke does not really have one or at least one to guard/counter Smith. Smith is going to be an incredible pro and Joel Berry might not even make it in the NBA but right now Berry is a better college basketball player with his experience. He easily bested Smith and attacking him early and getting two fouls on him was a huge part of that.

Duke/Carolina is going to be another two (or three) classic games where we probably split and each game goes down to the wire. Considering how I thought those matchups were going to go in the beginning of the year, I'll take it.

Giles not being as good as advertised is also a factor for Duke. He's just not 100%.
 

Greg29fan

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Jul 14, 2005
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I would be really surprised if Berry doesn't have productive NBA career like Ray Felton or Ty Lawson. He's quick, he's muscular, he runs the offense very well, he's at 43% from three, and he's even a decent rebounder.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
He's also really suited for the new NBA with his badass eurostep. I agree with you, but I don't think he will be a starter whereas Smith almost certainly will.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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Dec 22, 2005
11,740
Forget Capel, forget Collins (16-4, 5-2 in the Big 10 and never made the tourney), how about WOJO for K's replacement!??!?!???
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
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Jul 15, 2005
36,921
Hingham, MA
Georgia Tech stomped FSU at home last night. Their 2nd double digit win vs. a top 10 team this year. Crazy season, crazy league. Wonder if Duke will ever get it together, or will meander toward a 9-9 / 10-8 type of season.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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Dec 22, 2005
11,740
Look at the schedule - if they don't ASAP, then it's a meander and a season like a couple years ago when Kentucky was an #8 seed and went pretty far ideally
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
36,921
Hingham, MA
Look at the schedule - if they don't ASAP, then it's a meander and a season like a couple years ago when Kentucky was an #8 seed and went pretty far ideally
Yeah I had them around 10-8 before the home loss to State, now I am thinking 9-9

Edit: any word on K's return? It's been 3 weeks but I haven't read anything. What was the original range, 4-6?
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
His first game back will be the first Carolina game. It's as scripted as Grayson's one game suspension.
 

Drocca

darrell foster wallace
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
17,585
Raleigh, NC
Indefinitely?
Well played.

Tonight's game was a lot of fun. The crowd was super into it. I went straight from work and had what I would describe as a burnt orange shirt on and got a little shit for being a VA Tech fan. One of the dudes that was being an ass, asked me at one point "who is that?" when a line was forming to meet a dude.

I just turned and said, "That's Antawn Jamison, VA Tech legend."

Anyway we shot the shit out of the three, passed well, got 20 more shots then them because we crushed the glass. Just a dominant performance in a string of them. Hope it continues.
 

RedOctober3829

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Jul 19, 2005
55,263
deep inside Guido territory
If they lose to WF, is Duke's NCAA spot in jeopardy as they move into the harder portion of their schedule? Their only win over a currently ranked opponent is Florida. Obviously, they still have good opportunities for quality wins against ND, 2 UNC, and FSU. But as of right now, they don't have many quality wins at all.
 
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tims4wins

PN23's replacement
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Jul 15, 2005
36,921
Hingham, MA
If they lose to WF, is Duke's NCAA spot in jeopardy as they move into the harder portion of their schedule? Their only win over a currently ranked opponent is Florida. Obviously, they still have good opportunities for quality wins against ND, 2 UNC, and FSU. But as of right now, they don't have many quality wins at all.
If they keep losing it sure is. Still winless on the road in the conference pending today. They may end up going like 7-11 in conference or something in which case they may well get excluded unless they may a deep run in the ACCT.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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Dec 22, 2005
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It looks like we have found our core 5:

Jefferson
Tatum
Jones
Allen
Kennard

So 4 vets and the freshman who has turned out the best. These 5 have 49 of tonight's 50 shot attempts so far (4 min left in game)
 

IdiotKicker

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Nov 21, 2005
10,762
Somerville, MA
Defense is still a work in progress but offensively there seems to be a little more movement off drive and kick right now, and Kennard is working picks at the top pretty well too.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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Dec 22, 2005
11,740
Defense is going to be the downfall of this UNC team. Can they outscore 6 tournament teams in a row?
 

Greg29fan

Member
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Jul 14, 2005
20,478
NC
Defense is going to be the downfall of this UNC team. Can they outscore 6 tournament teams in a row?
I'm not losing sleep yet; it's a long conference season and there are going to be ups and downs, but it's mine (and Roy's) chief concern. It's the kind of thing that gets you bounced weekend one b/c your shooters go a little cold and you have bad luck or get outworked grabbing offensive rebounds.

Pinson has to stay healthy because he's their best and tallest/longest wing defender, but he seems to have the feet of an 80-year-old man.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
11,740
His first game back will be the first Pitt game. It's as scripted as Grayson's one game suspension.
 

DukeSox

absence hasn't made the heart grow fonder
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Dec 22, 2005
11,740
Why? Recent empirical evidence has shown the two teams are basically the same.
 

rhopkins2323

New Member
Mar 14, 2010
111
Sounds like the Heels and Irish will be playing Sunday instead of tomorrow evening b/c the Orange County water system dropped anchor.

http://www.wral.com/official-water-in-chapel-hill-will-not-be-safe-for-at-least-24-hours/16498975/
Which sort of sucks. Kevin Knox, last recruit that could salvage next years recruiting class, was scheduled to visit this weekend. Now he'll be up the weekend of the 18th vs Virginia.

FWIW, Kentucky and Duke are in on him. FSU as well. His dad played football there and his mother volleyball
 

Greg29fan

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Jul 14, 2005
20,478
NC
Crowd at the Coliseum today was absolutely awesome. They filled it up Carolina Blue and were loud.