That was then: Celebrating what was

edmunddantes

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I think it's the on the field trash talking.

Thus the complaints that the Pats are different than people think. Every so often you'll see it brought up by rival players. I'm pretty sure it's the Pats trash talk with the best of them on the field, but off the field act like boy scouts.The rival teams then feel like they get a raw deal.
 

InstaFace

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From the Snow Bowl oral history, just after the game-tying FG, I enjoyed this bit:
Walter: I look down to try and find the referees, and I look over to see Adam [Vinatieri], and he’s already running with his hands up in the air. “Holy shit, he just made that?” That’s when I told him, “Dude, don’t ever take off running, come on, man.” I’m holding the ball here, I’m kind of a part of this process, and so is Lonie (Paxton), he snapped it. Don’t do this whole soccer thing where you run around and do the airplane. I’m not going to chase you. Come and celebrate.
A lot of the Raiders come off as whiners from that article, or at best are very, very bitter (Gannon being a notable classy exception). I suppose we'd be just as bitter had the reverse happened, as with Ben Dreith or the Knoblauch phantom tag.

There's been a real flood of positive Patriots coverage lately. Hard to square with the siege mentality we've had since Ballghazi.
 
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lexrageorge

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I can understand Woodson's reaction. After all, he made what he thought was the game deciding play, only to have it reversed. Gannon has a good perspective; there were multiple chances for the Raiders to win that game even before the Tuck play, and they couldn't put it away.

Bob Ryan shows himself to be pretty clueless when he attempts to talk about anything other than basketball.
 

Al Zarilla

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Big night for Germaine Wiggins, 10 catches in 13 targets, by far his best as a Patriot. Not sure I ever knew he came from the Jets and went on to Minnesota after the 01/02 season. Fixture on NESN now.

Edit, Snow Game.
 

BaseballJones

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Charles Woodson hit Brady in the helmet on the Tuck Rule play, shouldn't that have been roughing the passer?
Yes. Just as Vrabel's hit to Warner's helmet that helped cause Ty Law's pick six in the Super Bowl.

Sorry, just being real here.
 

Rook05

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A 51-minute read (haven't read it yet)

Holy Tuck
An oral history of the Raiders-Patriots Tuck Rule Game, which 15 years ago forever altered the NFL
That was a great read. The Raider tax covers to the league office is gold.

The Raiders super-fucked up when they booted Gruden after that season.
Totally, but two firsts and two seconds is a pretty great haul. BB aside, I can't imagine many coaches fetching that return today.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Yes. Just as Vrabel's hit to Warner's helmet that helped cause Ty Law's pick six in the Super Bowl.

Sorry, just being real here.
I believe that the hits to the helmet calls back then were much different than today. I don't think it was automatic...so both calls may have been correct. I think the pats had a hit on Gannon's helmet this game, too. I think I saw it while watching America's Game?
 

GregHarris

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The Vrabel hit on Warner happened after the throw, but it probably would be called in today's NFL.
 

BaseballJones

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The Vrabel hit on Warner happened after the throw, but it probably would be called in today's NFL.
Absolutely it would have been called in today's NFL. Hit him right in the head, clear as day. Doesn't matter if it's after the ball was released.
 

GregHarris

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Absolutely it would have been called in today's NFL. Hit him right in the head, clear as day. Doesn't matter if it's after the ball was released.
I was addressing the suggestion that hitting him in the head somehow "helped cause" the TD. The rush and sloppy throw caused it. The hit to the head happened when the ball was in the air.
 

edmunddantes

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I believe that the hits to the helmet calls back then were much different than today. I don't think it was automatic...so both calls may have been correct. I think the pats had a hit on Gannon's helmet this game, too. I think I saw it while watching America's Game?
Yes true, but it's the comeback Pereira used against the Raiders whenever they brought it up (and he was the head of officiating at the time).

He's even quoted in the piece paraphrasing "if you want to nitpick on the tuck rule, than I can nitpick back at you with the uncalled roughing".

Pereira: Anytime I would get a fax after that from the Raiders, it would come with a still photo of Brady with two hands on the ball. All the way through 2009 or 2010. I mean, we’re in 2017, for God’s sake, and I still get, “It was a fumble.” But still photos are nothing. It’s the process of bringing the ball back into the body. If you want to use a still photo, then go ahead and call roughing the passer on Woodson for clubbing at the quarterback’s arm.
 

Rough Carrigan

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Absolutely it would have been called in today's NFL. Hit him right in the head, clear as day. Doesn't matter if it's after the ball was released.
Absolutely it would be called? Cam Newton took a hit to the head on the play where he fumbled early in the Uber Bowl last year but it wasn't called. They're not all called even in times when the NFL is pretending to be deeply concerned about such things.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Great article. Raiders fans who want to engage about whether that was a fumble or not don't deserve a lecture about the Tuck Rule. I get that they and the Raiders players feel that it was BS and its hard to disagree.

However, it's irrelevant. Bad calls happen all the time. The fact is, the Raiders failed to stop the Patriots twice more in that game. There are no excuses for that.
 

joe dokes

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Great article. Raiders fans who want to engage about whether that was a fumble or not don't deserve a lecture about the Tuck Rule. I get that they and the Raiders players feel that it was BS and its hard to disagree.

However, it's irrelevant. Bad calls happen all the time. The fact is, the Raiders failed to stop the Patriots twice more in that game. There are no excuses for that.
And neither history nor his teammates are very kind to Frank Middleton.
 

tims4wins

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I will never forget the Raiders driver prior to the Tuck Rule drive. Knowing the Pats needed a stop to get the ball back. Getting so excited on 1st down when they had Garner pinned for a multi-yard loss... and then seeing him escape for a 7 yard gain and feeling so deflated. And then on the 2nd and 3, they gained 2 but it was incredibly close to gaining a first down, to the point where Gumbel/Simms thought they may have gotten it. And then the 3rd down... Seymour taking out the center and Cox cleaning it up. Just an awesome sequence.
 

johnmd20

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Absolutely it would be called? Cam Newton took a hit to the head on the play where he fumbled early in the Uber Bowl last year but it wasn't called. They're not all called even in times when the NFL is pretending to be deeply concerned about such things.
Absolutely would have been called, yes.
 

Al Zarilla

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I will never forget the Raiders driver prior to the Tuck Rule drive. Knowing the Pats needed a stop to get the ball back. Getting so excited on 1st down when they had Garner pinned for a multi-yard loss... and then seeing him escape for a 7 yard gain and feeling so deflated. And then on the 2nd and 3, they gained 2 but it was incredibly close to gaining a first down, to the point where Gumbel/Simms thought they may have gotten it. And then the 3rd down... Seymour taking out the center and Cox cleaning it up. Just an awesome sequence.
Thing is back then with the Pats (and the Sox) we kind of expected things to end poorly. Up to that point in that game the Raiders had overall outplayed us and so it was looking like, if not exactly ho hum, well, here comes another loss for us. From that point on though, it's like the whole thing turned for the Pats, and the Sox maybe somehow came along for the ride. In any case, what a ride!
 

DJnVa

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Yes. Just as Vrabel's hit to Warner's helmet that helped cause Ty Law's pick six in the Super Bowl.

Sorry, just being real here.
Thanks for keeping us honest!!!!


And in the oral history, Pereira mentioned that Woodson should have been called for this.
 

DJnVa

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Great article. Raiders fans who want to engage about whether that was a fumble or not don't deserve a lecture about the Tuck Rule. I get that they and the Raiders players feel that it was BS and its hard to disagree.

However, it's irrelevant. Bad calls happen all the time. The fact is, the Raiders failed to stop the Patriots twice more in that game. There are no excuses for that.
Sure, but it's not a bad call, so I find it easy to disagree--not that I'd be an a-hole about it mind you. It may be a shitty rule (although I understand what they were doing--they didn't want officials trying to guess intent there) but it was applied 100% correctly and no one has every said differently. Once they saw the replays Pereira knew it was not a fumble, the ref in the press box told the Raiders pbp guy it wasn't a fumble, Simms knew it wasn't a fumble, etc.
 

BaseballJones

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Absolutely it would be called? Cam Newton took a hit to the head on the play where he fumbled early in the Uber Bowl last year but it wasn't called. They're not all called even in times when the NFL is pretending to be deeply concerned about such things.
Yeah as soon as I sent that I remembered exactly what you're talking about. Fair point. I'll reduce my claim to "I'm 99% sure it would have been called."
 

GregHarris

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The league was in such an uproar over that rule, the rules committee in a moment of swift clarity eliminated it 12 years later.
 

8slim

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Thing is back then with the Pats (and the Sox) we kind of expected things to end poorly. Up to that point in that game the Raiders had overall outplayed us and so it was looking like, if not exactly ho hum, well, here comes another loss for us. From that point on though, it's like the whole thing turned for the Pats, and the Sox maybe somehow came along for the ride. In any case, what a ride!
Even in the moments where I thought Brady had fumbled I wasn't all that disappointed. That team was predicted to be last in the division. Hell I think Pro Football America had them pegged as the worst team in the league before the season started. Then 9/11. Bledsoe out for weeks. Etc. They played the Rams tough as hell in that regular season loss and didn't lose again. If the season had ended against the Raiders it would have still been a raging success. Everything after the tuck call was gravy. God, what a year that was.
 

BigSoxFan

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Even in the moments where I thought Brady had fumbled I wasn't all that disappointed. That team was predicted to be last in the division. Hell I think Pro Football America had them pegged as the worst team in the league before the season started. Then 9/11. Bledsoe out for weeks. Etc. They played the Rams tough as hell in that regular season loss and didn't lose again. If the season had ended against the Raiders it would have still been a raging success. Everything after the tuck call was gravy. God, what a year that was.
And then they started the next season by kicking the shit out of the Steelers, which include a long TD to superstar Donald Hayes. But they flopped in FA that offseason and the team faltered after which Belichick said "f this" and grabbed Harrison and Colvin. And they really haven't looked back since.
 

GeorgeCostanza

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Just watched do your job again. Not sufficiently pumpe quite yet. My DVR recorded over XLIX (shame on me for not setting "keep until I delete"), anyone know if that will be airing in the near future?
 

Hoya81

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Just watched do your job again. Not sufficiently pumpe quite yet. My DVR recorded over XLIX (shame on me for not setting "keep until I delete"), anyone know if that will be airing in the near future?
NFL put the whole game on YouTube.
 

Carlos Cowart

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"I think he means "perceived arrogance", because Brady and Belichick are extremely complementary to their opponents about 99.9% of the time."

I'm convinced that if Brady hadn't said "Maybe those guys should learn the rule book" after the Baltimore game he'd have played 16 regular season games this year. But whatever - he won the SB the year he said it and he's going to win it again the year he was punished. So FUCK YOU!
 

dcmissle

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Much of the time -- when game covered by the lead CBS crew or the NBC crew -- my TV is muted.

I don't expect a ballwashing squad. But they also should not be cheerleading for a Patriots defeat.

Sadly, that's part of what is.
 

BigSoxFan

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Much of the time -- when game covered by the lead CBS crew or the NBC crew -- my TV is muted.

I don't expect a ballwashing squad. But they also should not be cheerleading for a Patriots defeat.

Sadly, that's part of what is.
Collinsworth was practically giggling with glee after Kearse's circus catch and was despondent after the Butler INT, almost as if he were a Seahawks fan. It was kind of bizarre.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I didn't feel that at all. He pointed out how much lucky bullshit happened against the Pats in 2 SB losses. We were all thinking it.
 

8slim

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I didn't feel that at all. He pointed out how much lucky bullshit happened against the Pats in 2 SB losses. We were all thinking it.
He spent a great deal of time in the last 5 minutes of the game discussing Deflategate. I don't get upset with almost any announcer ever but I'll never forgive him for that.
 

Oppo

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Thanks for posting the SB video. I hate that the game replays/recaps/commemorative videos cut out the ending when the game still had huge drama in the last 20 sec. Sea penalty and Sea being pussy sore losers never got the attention it deserved.

And that asshole Collinsworth apologizing for Sea being unsportsmanlike.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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Since I was at that game (and the after party, have I mentioned that?) I had never watched the Tv coverage all the way through

Hahahhaha fuck everyone!
 
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BigSoxFan

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I didn't feel that at all. He pointed out how much lucky bullshit happened against the Pats in 2 SB losses. We were all thinking it.
It was more the tone and, yes, I was not in the right frame of mind at the time. But he did sound upset when the Seahawks didn't run the ball.
 

SoxinSeattle

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Collinsworth is looking for and is excited by great plays and great games. If you're looking for it and your team is on the wrong end of a good play it can sound like he is rooting against your team. I promise you he is not. He is genuinely stoked to watch good football. It's his job to get viewers excited.
The deflategate shit however...
 

crossdog

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NFL put the whole game on YouTube.
Rewatched the game and noticed on the very last play, the kneel down, Slater is hugging up with Vareen and not getting in the huddle. Brady snaps at them to get into the huddle.

Classic Brady.
 

Jungleland

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Collinsworth is great and it is an absolute shame TV rights shake out with that team sidelined for the postseason.
 

Hoya81

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Wait, people are complaining about Collinsworth during the Super Bowl? He was almost crying while telling Butlers journey. Jesus, guys
The whole "I asked Tom to look me in the eyes and tell me the truth" riff on DFG pissed off a lot of people.

Edit: I like CC, but that was one of the sillier DFG takes.
 

mwonow

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The whole "I asked Tom to look me in the eyes and tell me the truth" riff on DFG pissed off a lot of people.
Yeah, but - this thread is about what's great about the Pats, not about DFG - we've done that (and done it, and done it, and done it_

Tom Brady, better than ever. Pats on their way to another SB. One more W this year and both TB12 and BB have most-ever SB wins. And as an extra sweetener, a win drops grumpy ol' Don Shula to second place. Make it so!
 

Brand Name

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Moving the Line
Belichick will get most appearances as either a player or coach, at 10, most as a coach alone with 7. Brady will get the most games played, started, and started as a QB with 7 for all of these items. He will also add to his most completions (164) and attempts (247) in the Super Bowl, and passing yards (1605), while probably adding to most TD passes (13).

Should they put in the proper effort for the last 60 of the season: Brady would pass obviously Bradshaw and Montana's 4 for QBs. But he'd also tie Charles Haley's most games with a winning team. Belichick would pass Noll for most as a head coach alone with 5.