The Bill Simmons Thread

allstonite

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I know this is sour grapes/depression talking, but after those guys spent most of October saying that the election was completely over and "don't be fooled by those who say it's tightening," I really could not care less about their future opinions.
I mostly agree and while I still listened to most of them I only half paid attention.

Also, Jon Lovett would try and turn every episode into his comedy hour and end up cutting everyone off. I liked it much better when it was Favreau and Pfiffer.
 

8slim

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I know this is sour grapes/depression talking, but after those guys spent most of October saying that the election was completely over and "don't be fooled by those who say it's tightening," I really could not care less about their future opinions.
They were just doing their best Axelrod impression. I hope they learned that Hillary isn't Obama.

Regardless it's a blow for The Ringer to lose them, at least from a buzz standpoint. Not sure any other podcast in that network aside from Bill's has made a splash.

I still think he is a talented guy, but I'm wondering if maybe he's realizing that life isn't as easy when you don't have a massive 24/7/365 marketing and traffic referral engine working at your disposal.
 

Marciano490

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Don't they have a new podcast already? I went to hs with Tommy Vietor and he just posted on Facebook about being #1 on iTunes.
 

DourDoerr

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jimbobim

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In an article in the SF Chronicle, they said they were humbled by the election and needed to be less snarky. So they start a new podcast called "Pod Save America," call their media company "Crooked Media," and base it in Los Angeles. Somewhere in Washington, Mitch McConnell smiles.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Obama-White-House-veterans-stake-out-spot-in-10843874.php?cmpid=gsa-sfgate-result
I was going to post something when this was first reported a few days back but I agree think this is dumb. Should've just joined Vox. Obama s got treated with kid/adoring gloves even when he was threatening to jail journos or refusing access. The idea they're going to be ones to follow now is poor vision I'd say.

At least Vox already has a couple years of liberal/technocratic vacuum/audience built rather than starting from scratch. I'm sure they'll be well funded but think it'll be a struggle to get audience.

Just read the article. Pfieffer notably is staying with gofundme. Color me unimpressed to the max. Anyone throwing any significant cash at that lark is foolish
 

gtg807y

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In an article in the SF Chronicle, they said they were humbled by the election and needed to be less snarky. So they start a new podcast called "Pod Save America," call their media company "Crooked Media," and base it in Los Angeles. Somewhere in Washington, Mitch McConnell smiles.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Obama-White-House-veterans-stake-out-spot-in-10843874.php?cmpid=gsa-sfgate-result
Not bringing Lovett along with them would have accomplished this goal. I found I agreed with him often (to my surprise, as we're far apart politically) and he would make good points, but it's completely outweighed by his smug delivery and as allstonite mentioned above, making the pod his comedy hour.
 

JimD

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I know this is sour grapes/depression talking, but after those guys spent most of October saying that the election was completely over and "don't be fooled by those who say it's tightening," I really could not care less about their future opinions.
A few weeks before the election, the four of them went on a kick imploring listeners not to 'bedwet' and get out there and work for Hillary. I'm convinced in hindsight that they knew it wasn't looking good for Clinton but didn't want to panic the faithful. Maybe they were in shock that their nightmare scenario was actually happening, but it certainly doesn't bode well for their credibility.
 

coremiller

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A few weeks before the election, the four of them went on a kick imploring listeners not to 'bedwet' and get out there and work for Hillary. I'm convinced in hindsight that they knew it wasn't looking good for Clinton but didn't want to panic the faithful. Maybe they were in shock that their nightmare scenario was actually happening, but it certainly doesn't bode well for their credibility.
I don't think this is the case at all. Things didn't start getting dicey for Clinton until about 2 weeks before the election, right before the Comey letter (which then accelerated the trend). Clinton peaked in 538's projections on October 17 at 88% with a projected 7 point lead nationally, in the immediate aftermath of the sexual harassment video and the 2nd debate. At that point, an HRC landslide looked about as likely as a Trump victory.
 

DourDoerr

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I was going to post something when this was first reported a few days back but I agree think this is dumb. Should've just joined Vox. Obama s got treated with kid/adoring gloves even when he was threatening to jail journos or refusing access. The idea they're going to be ones to follow now is poor vision I'd say.

At least Vox already has a couple years of liberal/technocratic vacuum/audience built rather than starting from scratch. I'm sure they'll be well funded but think it'll be a struggle to get audience.

Just read the article. Pfieffer notably is staying with gofundme. Color me unimpressed to the max. Anyone throwing any significant cash at that lark is foolish
Agree on Vox's built-in audience gives it a big head start, although Vox got caught up in the horse race aspects of election too. Also, Ezra Klein's delivery where each sentence sounds like a question even when it's not a question is very problematic.

I'd have a lot more respect for the new venture if the "Keeping..." people lit out for the interior and based themselves there. Mining that area for different voices would be useful.
 

Drocca

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I disagree with it being a bad bet as far as funding goes. (Note: I have never listened to their podcast and have no plans to, I have never read an article on Vox and have no plans to).

Every time a new party comes into power a vacuum opens up where opposition media can make a splash and a lot of money. The digital media landscape is not so sewed up that the winners of the opposition race is necessarily in place. Vox should do well. Holdovers from the Bush years, such as DailyKos and MoveOn, seem like dinosaurs. There's space for a digital venture aimed at bubble-seeking liberals and being earnest, which these folks seem in the interviews I've read, is a positive for their listeners. Add in the cache they bring with their connection to Obama and I would invest in them (and then never listen).
 

luckiestman

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I disagree with it being a bad bet as far as funding goes. (Note: I have never listened to their podcast and have no plans to, I have never read an article on Vox and have no plans to).

Every time a new party comes into power a vacuum opens up where opposition media can make a splash and a lot of money. The digital media landscape is not so sewed up that the winners of the opposition race is necessarily in place. Vox should do well. Holdovers from the Bush years, such as DailyKos and MoveOn, seem like dinosaurs. There's space for a digital venture aimed at bubble-seeking liberals and being earnest, which these folks seem in the interviews I've read, is a positive for their listeners. Add in the cache they bring with their connection to Obama and I would invest in them (and then never listen).

Air America couldn't do it, but the podcast model might do better
 

DourDoerr

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There is space, but listeners have only so much time, so they're going to have to choose and the podcasts mentioned cover the same ground fairly similarly.

I'm surprised that all of them - despite the relatively young age of the hosts - are so reactionary and hesitant. For instance, they fully mocked Trump for his tweets which is fully justified for their content, but they didn't really address how effective tweets are as a tool and how they should be used by POTUS and other candidates. They seemed to defer to "the dignity of the Presidential office" school of thought. Well, that's great if George Will is your audience going forward, but it does little to assess how a presidency will change with tech in the future.
 

jimbobim

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There is space, but listeners have only so much time, so they're going to have to choose and the podcasts mentioned cover the same ground fairly similarly.

I'm surprised that all of them - despite the relatively young age of the hosts - are so reactionary and hesitant. For instance, they fully mocked Trump for his tweets which is fully justified for their content, but they didn't really address how effective tweets are as a tool and how they should be used by POTUS and other candidates. They seemed to defer to "the dignity of the Presidential office" school of thought. Well, that's great if George Will is your audience going forward, but it does little to assess how a presidency will change with tech in the future.


It's even more troubling when you consider how they as part of Obama's team constantly worked to control their message/content/perception via official WH youtube spots photo ops statements and off the record/background meetings to purposely sideline press especially in O's second term. The Donald is going to take their beginning steps and expand them greatly. His rapid fire use of twitter with blunt statements speaks to many Americans and it will be difficult for those who oppose Trump to effectively blunt that communication style when it is further infused with the power of the presidential bully pulpit.
 

Silverdude2167

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The mailbag is back and he starts us off by talking about the QB GOAT for some reason and dings Brady for,

"The Football Gods gave Brady the greatest coach ever and an inconceivably lousy division"
WTF Bill, the lousy division is bullshit and why is he restarting the conversation on this?
 

Number45forever

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You know, I'm not even listening to the latest pod. 30 minutes of comparing football teams to Wire characters and then Jeffrey Ross. I don't fucking care. I'm sure there will be forced laughs and a ton of fluffy bullshit. I'd rather just Lombardi with straight up analysis and then maybe some Joe House/Bill's Dad to preview the playoffs/Pats.
 

johnmd20

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You know, I'm not even listening to the latest pod. 30 minutes of comparing football teams to Wire characters and then Jeffrey Ross. I don't fucking care. I'm sure there will be forced laughs and a ton of fluffy bullshit. I'd rather just Lombardi with straight up analysis and then maybe some Joe House/Bill's Dad to preview the playoffs/Pats.
The Joe Buck interview earlier this week was excellent. I highly recommend that one, Buck was really funny.

But Jeffrey Ross was brutal. Every third word was roast. I just don't care. But The Wire comps were enjoyable, as a walk down memory lane. Look, Lombardi isn't a bad guest.
 

Blacken

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I'd have a lot more respect for the new venture if the "Keeping..." people lit out for the interior and based themselves there. Mining that area for different voices would be useful.
And living there would be godawful and apocalyptic. (Is. I just spent a month there.) I wouldn't wish "the interior" on my worst enemy (aside from a Chicago or something, but then liberal elites hurf blurf and the criticism stands), to say nothing of people I actually like. And, uh, Lovett's a gay man. It's gonna be a real bad idea to be gay in the aforementioned banjo country for the next four years, even worse than before.

It's so sad that they won't have your respect because they won't go play cosplay Deliverance. I wonder how they can possibly muddle on.
 

luckiestman

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You know, I'm not even listening to the latest pod. 30 minutes of comparing football teams to Wire characters and then Jeffrey Ross. I don't fucking care. I'm sure there will be forced laughs and a ton of fluffy bullshit. I'd rather just Lombardi with straight up analysis and then maybe some Joe House/Bill's Dad to preview the playoffs/Pats.

Lombardi is great, your loss. Jeff Ross sucks so I skipped that.

Andy Reid as Prop Joe, that's great work by Lombardi.
 

jimbobim

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Lombardi is great, your loss. Jeff Ross sucks so I skipped that.

Andy Reid as Prop Joe, that's great work by Lombardi.
Good to see him recognizing he needs to get back to writing content. The Lombardi/Wire analysis was quality stuff. Didn't listen to the second half either.
 

DourDoerr

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It's so sad that they won't have your respect because they won't go play cosplay Deliverance. I wonder how they can possibly muddle on.
Jesus, is this necessary? And FWIW, "I'd have a lot more respect" doesn't equal zero respect.

As for the body of your post, isn't the idea of a middle America devoid of gays a little outdated? As well as the elitist notion of "banjo country?" It's this kind of opinion that's led to the problems Dems have had in reaching places other than the coasts. I spend a lot of time in rural CA and there were signs - literally - that this election was going to be more problematic than the 1600 hosts perceived.

If their job is to have insight on politics than I'd guess that having a good grasp of the electorate would be a requirement. If living for a time in places as "godawful and apocalyptic" as, say, Ohio, Pennsylvania or Wisconsin is too much to ask, then we'll continue to be uninformed about a large swarth of the country. Sorry, but in LA they'll be in an echo chamber and will continue to fool themselves.

Also, just genuinely curious - why did you put "the interior" in quotes? Is it simply a negative judgement on my choice of words?

Edit-removed complaint
 
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Remagellan

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The mailbag is back and he starts us off by talking about the QB GOAT for some reason and dings Brady for,



WTF Bill, the lousy division is bullshit and why is he restarting the conversation on this?
You know who also played for an all-time great coach and in a division that was similarly lousy for most of his time in it? Joe Montana. Is anyone dinging him for that?
 

luckiestman

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You know who also played for an all-time great coach and in a division that was similarly lousy for most of his time in it? Joe Montana. Is anyone dinging him for that?

Sure, people used to (more the coach and the surrounding talent than the division) when they tried to argue against him as the best all time. These arguments fade with time.

I think the argument can go the other way too. Belichick is definitely an all time coach but all of his success (i.e. SB wins) came with the same great QB. Gibbs won 3 SB with 3 different QBs.
 

Spacemans Bong

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Gibbs won three Super Bowls with three different QBs, which begs the question of how many he woulda won had he been able to develop a great quarterback, something he never did. You can twist this endlessly.

Also, was the NFC West really that bad during Montana's tenure? I guess the Saints and Falcons were pretty bad, but the Rams were usually good and made three NFC title games in the 80s, if I remember correctly.

Also, if we want to talk about breakout political podcasts that get the new paradigms, that's Chapo Trap House all the way.
 

luckiestman

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Gibbs won three Super Bowls with three different QBs, which begs the question of how many he woulda won had he been able to develop a great quarterback, something he never did. You can twist this endlessly.

Also, was the NFC West really that bad during Montana's tenure? I guess the Saints and Falcons were pretty bad, but the Rams were usually good and made three NFC title games in the 80s, if I remember correctly.

Also, if we want to talk about breakout political podcasts that get the new paradigms, that's Chapo Trap House all the way.

It was definitely Joe's fault that LT broke Theisman's fucking leg in half
 

Remagellan

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Also, was the NFC West really that bad during Montana's tenure? I guess the Saints and Falcons were pretty bad, but the Rams were usually good and made three NFC title games in the 80s, if I remember correctly.
The Rams appeared, or should I say disappeared, in two NFC Championship games during the Montana era, losing to the 1985 Bears 24-0 and the 1989 Niners 30-3.

It may be hard to believe now, but that's the same number of times the Rex Ryan and Mark Sanchez-led Jets appeared in conference championship games during the Brady era--with the Jets losing 30-17 to the Colts in 2009 and to the Steelers 24-19 in 2010.

(Those days must seem so long ago to Ryan, Sanchez, and all Jets fans.)
 

Ralphwiggum

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Gibbs was also pretty terrible in his second stint with the Redskins, when he was about as old as BB is right now. The game had passed him by and he could not adjust.

Not to say he's not a great coach, he obviously was. But there has never been a coach in NFL history who has been able to adapt and win in more different ways than Belichick. That goes way beyond having Brady at QB, although he probably doesn't have 4 Super Bowls with someone else at QB.
 

Marciano490

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Gibbs was also pretty terrible in his second stint with the Redskins, when he was about as old as BB is right now. The game had passed him by and he could not adjust.

Not to say he's not a great coach, he obviously was. But there has never been a coach in NFL history who has been able to adapt and win in more different ways than Belichick. That goes way beyond having Brady at QB, although he probably doesn't have 4 Super Bowls with someone else at QB.
It's probably easier to evolve with the game when you don't step away to race cars. Not that I dispute Belichick is the better/greatest coach.
 

luckiestman

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Gibbs was also pretty terrible in his second stint with the Redskins, when he was about as old as BB is right now. The game had passed him by and he could not adjust.

Not to say he's not a great coach, he obviously was. But there has never been a coach in NFL history who has been able to adapt and win in more different ways than Belichick. That goes way beyond having Brady at QB, although he probably doesn't have 4 Super Bowls with someone else at QB.
Gibbs made the playoffs twice in 4 years in his comeback. It wasn't great but it wasn't terrible. He made the playoffs with Todd Collins(who?) the year his best D player was murdered.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Gibbs made the playoffs twice in 4 years in his comeback. It wasn't great but it wasn't terrible. He made the playoffs with Todd Collins(who?) the year his best D player was murdered.
I think he had his two worst records as a head coach (5-11 and 6-10) and one of the payoff years he was 9-7. Overall I'd rate those years pretty poor, particularly relative to his prior success, but YMMV. He's still a great coach, he just couldn't do it at a championship level anymore at that point in this career regardless of who he had at QB.
 

JimD

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The Ringer losing those guys feels important. It has not been a good couple of years for Simmons. He not only better get back to writing, but he better get back to actually writing decent columns.
I don't think he's got it in him. He's become the kind of past-his-shelf-life writer churning out retread columns that Digital City Bill used to skewer mercilessly.

The bigger questions to me are, were 30-for-30 and Grantland an indication of Bill's true talent behind the scenes, or were these mainly possible thanks to ESPN's dollars and reach? How can he break through the noise to make The Ringer a vital presence in the sports media landscape? Can his next new project (whatever it is) generate buzz and build his reputation, or will it merely trade on his past accomplishments?
 

kenneycb

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If anyone wants an entertaining hour between three friends shooting the shit, the Simmons podcast with Schur and Meyers is great. No real analysis but fun to listen to because they only spend about 15 minutes of the hour talking about the game (Meyers is a Steelers fan) and the rest is just entertaining. Didn't realize how SABR Meyers was. Schur is Schur and I can never say a bad thing about KT, especially after finishing the Good Place earlier tonight.