That was then: Celebrating what was

Saints Rest

Saints Rest

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The Hall of Fame remains a skill position Hall for the most part.

I think we would need to see more kickers and punters get in before we see a pure ST like Slater. I think it would be akin to a middle reliever getting in -- he may be the best ever at the position, but he just doesn't impact a game that much.
 
NobodyInteresting

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Just screwing around with some numbers this morning, and apologies (but not really) if this stat has already come up earlier in the thread. These numbers include this regular season but not the current playoffs, and hopefully I did the sums right.

Since 2001 the Patriots have a better winning percentage in the playoffs than any other team has in the regular season. (71% v Steelers 65%). That's also true in the division round (71%) and Superbowl (67%) but not the Championship game (a mere 60%) which is very obviously their Achilles heel.

Since 2001 the Patriots have a better winning percentage in the playoffs than playoff teams have had in the regular season. (71% v 69%, and that 69% is obviously boosted by including the Patriots own regular season results.)
 
tims4wins

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NobodyInteresting said:
Just screwing around with some numbers this morning, and apologies (but not really) if this stat has already come up earlier in the thread. These numbers include this regular season but not the current playoffs, and hopefully I did the sums right.

Since 2001 the Patriots have a better winning percentage in the playoffs than any other team has in the regular season. (71% v Steelers 65%). That's also true in the division round (71%) and Superbowl (67%) but not the Championship game (a mere 60%) which is very obviously their Achilles heel.

Since 2001 the Patriots have a better winning percentage in the playoffs than playoff teams have had in the regular season. (71% v 69%, and that 69% is obviously boosted by including the Patriots own regular season results.)
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That is fantastic stuff, especially the second one.
 
BaseballJones

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I agree with tims4wins....that's great stuff, NobodyInteresting. And to give some detail to it....

From 2001-2016, comparing the Patriots' postseason record to the best other teams' regular season records over that same time span:

Patriots playoff record: 23-9 (.719)
Patriots regular season record: 196-60 (.766)
Colts regular season record: 166-90 (.648)
Broncos regular season record: 153-103 (.598)
Packers regular season record: 162-94 (.633)
Steelers regular season record: 166-89-1 (.648)
Ravens regular season record: 145-111 (.566)
Saints regular season record: 136-120 (.531)
Giants regular season record: 134-122 (.523)

What an incredible run of dominance.
 
lars10

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Saints Rest said:
The Hall of Fame remains a skill position Hall for the most part.

I think we would need to see more kickers and punters get in before we see a pure ST like Slater. I think it would be akin to a middle reliever getting in -- he may be the best ever at the position, but he just doesn't impact a game that much.
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I wonder if any one other player in NFL history has effected field position as much as Slater has over his career. I don't know how you could track it but he is either making a tackle or downing the ball more than any other player I've seen...including his catch at the one on Saturday.
 
Saints Rest

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lars10 said:
I wonder if any one other player in NFL history has effected field position as much as Slater has over his career. I don't know how you could track it but he is either making a tackle or downing the ball more than any other player I've seen...including his catch at the one on Saturday.
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Maybe more than any ST player, but that's just not a lot. Just this past season, Allen had 67 punts that were not touchbacks. That's about 4 per game. Let's say that Slater made the key play, be that a tackle or downing the ball, on half (a generous estimate, I would say), that's two plays per game. Now how much better is he than your average gunner? 3 yards? 5 yards? I'd be shocked if it was that much a difference. So you're talking about a net worth of probably 5-10 yards per game.

By contrast, your typical sack leader is around one sack per game. I'd guess that the average loss of yardage on a sack is in that same 5-10 yard range. So that sack leader, on his sacks alone is worth as much as Slater.

Now don't get me wrong; I love Slater, as a player and as a leader (I found it telling in that video about him and his dad that he is the first player -- and second person after BB -- to address the team after every game). And I think he is the best ST cover guy in the NFL, and in the discussion for the GOAT at that role, but it's a tiny role compared to almost any regular offensive or defensive player in the overall context of the game. And it may even be a smaller role than that of punter or kicker.
 
uk_sox_fan

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NobodyInteresting said:
Just screwing around with some numbers this morning, and apologies (but not really) if this stat has already come up earlier in the thread. These numbers include this regular season but not the current playoffs, and hopefully I did the sums right.

Since 2001 the Patriots have a better winning percentage in the playoffs than any other team has in the regular season. (71% v Steelers 65%). That's also true in the division round (71%) and Superbowl (67%) but not the Championship game (a mere 60%) which is very obviously their Achilles heel.

Since 2001 the Patriots have a better winning percentage in the playoffs than playoff teams have had in the regular season. (71% v 69%, and that 69% is obviously boosted by including the Patriots own regular season results.)
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Minor quibble. The Pats' record in Division Round games is 11-2 or 84.6% over that period. I also wouldn't call 6-4 in Conference Championships games an 'Achilles Heel'. A better reflection of what's going on there is that they're 4-1 at home and 2-3 away.
 
Kenny F'ing Powers

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Seriously. I know it's 30 min long, but the editing and production of that piece is really, really good. Like, dusty in here good.

Please watch that shit.
 
InstaFace

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Nice find, KFP. At 18:41, is that Jon Gruden in the background behind BB in a game in 2009? He didn't have a job in football that year, maybe he was there as a guest of Belichick or something. Or a consultant we didn't know about.

edit: also, now I'm late for a meeting. Fucking great. Thanks a lot asshole :)
 
DJnVa

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From that MMQB story:

The head coach of another AFC club tried a similar tactic with his team this season, showing the entire team clips of mistakes by a handful of his best players. One recently paid veteran responded by standing up in front of the room and screaming at the coach.
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weeba

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Ouch.

MATT LIGHT, Patriots left tackle, 2001-11:
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“Bill Belichick had Jimmy Johnson come in and talk to our team one time. He was talking about how you’ve gotta make sure you are doing everything right, but he made a point to say, ‘I coached a lot of characters, but I tell you what, they could get away with a lot as long as they came in there on Sundays and they went out and they performed…’ I remember thinking to myself, Well, no, you actually can’t do that. Afterward I was talking to some guys, mainly offensive linemen, and we joked about showing up late next week to every meeting and see how that goes. I think there’s a certain running back in recent memory that figured out what happens in New England when you don’t show up, no matter how good you are, Mr. [Jonas] Gray. That was a very interesting story to be told to a Belichick-coached team, because we are kind of the opposite of that. I promise you, a Michael Irvin wouldn’t have lasted long on a Belichick-coached team.”
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InstaFace

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Don Buddin's GS said:
Ian O'Connor with another great 'soft piece' on Brady and his BFF Jay Flannelly:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18496231/meet-self-appointed-scout-new-england-patriots-qb-tom-brady-trusts-2016-nfl
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Money quote from that one:

Brady does almost no substantive public talking about his own emotions and thoughts, so it is left to his friends to occasionally crack open some of those windows. They all agree that Brady was railroaded in Deflategate, and that part of his motivation to win another title centers on his desire to settle a score. The accusation and punishment, Shea said in October, "hurt Tommy a lot more than he'll let anyone know."
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And from SI's Receivers article:

Early in that [2007] season the Patriots visited the Cowboys, who at 5–0 also entered without a loss. In the fourth quarter Brady called a play in which one wideout was expected to read the coverage and run one of three possible routes. That player was supposed to be Moss, but Stallworth was in the game instead. And that was a problem. “We’re breaking the huddle, and Brady sees I’m in the game,” says Stallworth, 36. “We’ve both got this Oh, s--- look on our faces because I’ve never practiced this route. So Brady says, ‘Just go deep,’ and the play ends up being a 69-yard touchdown. We literally drew it up in the sand. The guy is amazing.”
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Brady's accuracy on deep routes this season - a much-discussed point of emphasis for his offseason training - has been incredible to behold. I do miss the days when he could just say "fuck it" and toss it up to Randy Moss, who would just about always come down with it. He doesn't have that cushion anymore, he has to be Brees-like in his precision, and in a way that's even more impressive.
 
simplyeric

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InstaFace said:
Brady's accuracy on deep routes this season - a much-discussed point of emphasis for his offseason training - has been incredible to behold. I do miss the days when he could just say "fuck it" and toss it up to Randy Moss, who would just about always come down with it. He doesn't have that cushion anymore, he has to be Brees-like in his precision, and in a way that's even more impressive.
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fuck you.

(just last week I was talking with a coworker about how I can still picture the penultimate pass attempt to Moss in the Scottish Game (the one that shall not be mentioned by name)...and here you are bringing it up again)
 
BaseballJones

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Moss didn't high point that pass. He tried to let it come to him, and as a result, the NYG defender was able to just barely tip it away.

Let's not forget that Brady threw that ball about 70 yards in the air, on a freaking DIME.

It would have gone down as one of the greatest throws in this history of sports had Moss come up with it.

Oh well. Crap.
 
Jed Zeppelin

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simplyeric said:
fuck you.

(just last week I was talking with a coworker about how I can still picture the penultimate pass attempt to Moss in the Scottish Game (the one that shall not be mentioned by name)...and here you are bringing it up again)
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I don't know if you came up with The Scottish Game, but I'm stealing it. Well, at least among semi-cultured friends who would know what the hell I was referencing.
 
simplyeric

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Makes sense why I don't get it.
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out out, damn spot!

Jed Zeppelin said:
I don't know if you came up with The Scottish Game, but I'm stealing it. Well, at least among semi-cultured friends who would know what the hell I was referencing.
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well, I think I did just come up with it. I can't recall seeing it anywhere, but you know how that can be: maybe I read it somewhere and don't remember it. I was trying to decide if I should have called it "The Scottish Bowl" instead...might make more sense that way.
But, until someone tells me otherwise, I'm taking full credit for coming up with it.


I usually use "The Superbowl of Our Discontent", but switched it up this time.
 
Moog

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I have no spur
To prick the sides of my intent, but only
Vaulting ambition, which o'erleaps itself
And falls on the other.
 
Kenny F'ing Powers

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brandonchristensen said:
This is unbelievable.

The sound mix makes such a huge difference. I love BoredFilmGrads work.
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I don't follow most youtube channels, but I spent some time on his yesterday because of this. This was better executed then anything you'll see on NESN or other local channels and felt right at home with much more expensive professionally done documentaries. The way Brady's entire football past was interwoven throughout the latest SBs highs and lows was just really well done.

DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
I am up way past my bedtime and I both hate and, even more, love you for this.
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I don't usually go for this stuff, so the fact that I'll spend 30 minutes at some point later today watching this again and pretending something is in my eye is pretty telling.
 
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8slim

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Making 6 straight conference championship games is utterly remarkable in an era of free agency and the salary cap. The Pats have 11 guys on the roster now that were also on the team when the run began in 2011. As a comparison, the Raiders team that went to a 5th straight conference championship game had 22 players still on the roster from the first year of that run.
 
joe dokes

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Never ever heard that Oakland knew what was coming on the Tuck play:

Eric Allen (Raiders defensive back), to ESPN in 2012: I’m an older guy, so on breaks whenever there was some downtime I would never go to the huddle. I would basically hang out on the sideline. So here’s this young quarterback that comes over and he’s speaking with Charlie Weis, the offensive coordinator at the time, and he says, “We’re going to go three-by-one. We’re going to throw the slant backside.”
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DJnVa

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Silverdude2167 said:
A 51-minute read (haven't read it yet)

Holy Tuck
An oral history of the Raiders-Patriots Tuck Rule Game, which 15 years ago forever altered the NFL
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Fun read.

Ken Walter was apparently like "Hey man, I can give you more. You need more? I'm available. Just call me, I'm here."

He said:
I can remember so many times where we’d be down 14–0 or 17–0 and before halftime Tom just starts going to everyone on the sideline, “We’re going to win this damn game.”
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It's funny, because that doesn't really appear to have happened all that much. But, you know.
 
m0ckduck

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8slim said:
Making 6 straight conference championship games is utterly remarkable in an era of free agency and the salary cap.
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During the Pats' run, only 3 other teams that participated in a CCG have made it back the next year. So, that's NE 5-for-5, others 3-for-15 in terms of 'returning to the CCG'.

Edit: the fact that one of these 3 non-NE teams to repeat was SF — a complete organizational mess just a few years later — shows you how tenuous the whole thing is
 
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DJnVa

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Gannon:
We were building something special, that was the problem. It’d be like separating Drew Brees and Sean Payton or Aaron Rodgers and Mike McCarthy or Belichick and Brady. I’m not trying to put myself into that category, but we were in the infant stages of doing something unique and special.
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Uh, dude, you were 36 years old and only started 26 more games in your career. Chill a bit.
 
edmunddantes

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If you didn't know better, you'd swear Bob Ryan is a Raiders guy and Rich Gannon was a Patriots guy...

Gannon really does nail it with his thing where he talks about the culture of the older Raiders' players had a belief of "we're getting screwed. Conspiracy all around" excuse making and how it had an effect on the team beyond just the Tuck rule game.
 
Dollar

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DrewDawg said:
Gannon:


Uh, dude, you were 36 years old and only started 26 more games in your career. Chill a bit.
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To be fair to Gannon, he was playing the best football of his career in 2001 and 2002, and played pretty well before a shoulder injury in week 7 of 2003 ended his season and a serious neck injury in week 3 of 2004 ended his career.
 
DJnVa

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Dollar said:
To be fair to Gannon, he was playing the best football of his career in 2001 and 2002, and played pretty well before a shoulder injury in week 7 of 2003 ended his season and a serious neck injury in week 3 of 2004 ended his career.
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Definitely. But he was 36. If it was the "infancy" of something, he wasn't gonna be around to see it grow too old.
 
TheoShmeo

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One thing to celebrate is the extent to which the Pats get under the skin of the Bart Scotts of the world.

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2017/01/18/bart-scott-compares-patriots-to-duke-christian-laettner-dorks/

“They do, but they hate them,” he said. “It’s like fighting a dork, somebody that you hate. I am serious. I am not even trying to be funny. People are like, ‘I hate Christian Laettner.’ Yeah, he was great and talented, but he got under your skin because there was a sense of arrogance.
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No one hated the Pats, called them assholes, compared them to Duke (vomit) or called them dorks until they started winning like this. No one hates the Bills, Browns or other sad sacks.

That the Patriots are as hated as they are is cause for wild celebration. I do not look forward to the day when they are liked again.
 
DJnVa

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TheoShmeo said:
One thing to celebrate is the extent to which the Pats get under the skin of the Bart Scotts of the world.

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2017/01/18/bart-scott-compares-patriots-to-duke-christian-laettner-dorks/


No one hated the Pats, called them assholes, compared them to Duke (vomit) or called them dorks until they started winning like this. No one hates the Bills, Browns or other sad sacks.

That the Patriots are as hated as they are is cause for wild celebration. I do not look forward to the day when they are liked again.
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I think he means "perceived arrogance", because Brady and Belichick are extremely complementary to their opponents about 99.9% of the time. Christ, Earl Thomas (who was "covering" Amendola in Super Bowl when he caught TD) just whined about Brady having an easy road and all that and Brady's response was "Earl is great, hope he gets back on the field soon."
 
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