Red Sox sign Mitch Moreland

Cesar Crespo

Cesar Crespo

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Dec 22, 2002
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grimshaw said:
I just think he's a more expensive version of Travis Shaw who said "Yup, I'm worth about 1yr 5 million. May as well go somewhere I'll win something."

My guess is, the Red Sox think he's better served as a part timer than Shaw at this point of each of their careers.

I'm expecting almost nothing from him, but if he's Moreland from 2015 and Farrell maximizes his strengths, then it's a nice bonus. Otherwise he's a low .obp match up guy who is worth about a half win.

Edited: Moreland's decent year was 2015 not 2014
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Depends on who you think the real Travis Shaw is. If you think he is more like the 2nd half Travis Shaw, Moreland is much better than that guy. He also had a huge reverse split last year that is so out of the norm that it could be hiding decline or hiding improvement depending on how you want to look at it.
 
grimshaw

grimshaw

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bosox79 said:
Depends on who you think the real Travis Shaw is. If you think he is more like the 2nd half Travis Shaw, Moreland is much better than that guy. He also had a huge reverse split last year that is so out of the norm that it could be hiding decline or hiding improvement depending on how you want to look at it.
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I'm going by overall numbers. To this point they are eerily similar, except Moreland doesn't play 3b, so I'm not sure Moreland is an overall upgrade unless Shaw continues his uselessness.

Shaw .312/.442/.734 wRC+ 97
Moreland .315/.438/.733 wRC+98
 
foulkehampshire

foulkehampshire

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grimshaw said:
I'm going by overall numbers. To this point they are eerily similar, except Moreland doesn't play 3b, so I'm not sure Moreland is an overall upgrade unless Shaw continues his uselessness.

Shaw .312/.442/.734 wRC+ 97
Moreland .315/.438/.733 wRC+98
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Slash lines don't paint the entire picture though. Shaw wasn't all that great of a prospect and was a modest player in the upper minors. Perhaps he tapped into more in at the major league level but what he did in late 2015, early 2016 was entirely unexpected. He steadily got worse the more he was exposed at the major league pitching and was unable to make an adjustment. Perhaps he will, he's a more risky bet to replicate that .730 OPS in 2017.
Moreland was a more polished upper minors prospect with some serious power potential. He didn't live up to the expectations, but he's consistently hit RHP with power outside of 2014. As mentioned in other places, he generates elite hard contact and there's reason to think his hitting profile would work in Fenway. I think his chance of being an upgrade over Shaw is more likely than the opposite.
 
Savin Hillbilly

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Certainly Moreland is more of an established commodity. But I don't think we should necessarily conclude from the moves of this week that the Sox are sure Moreland will be better than Shaw. They may just have decided that if replacing Shaw with Moreland would allow them to acquire Tyler Thornburg for an effective price of Dubon + $5M, that would make the team better even if Moreland isn't better than Shaw, and a lot better if he is.
 
grimshaw

grimshaw

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foulkehampshire said:
Slash lines don't paint the entire picture though. Shaw wasn't all that great of a prospect and was a modest player in the upper minors. Perhaps he tapped into more in at the major league level but what he did in late 2015, early 2016 was entirely unexpected. He steadily got worse the more he was exposed at the major league pitching and was unable to make an adjustment. Perhaps he will, he's a more risky bet to replicate that .730 OPS in 2017.
Moreland was a more polished upper minors prospect with some serious power potential. He didn't live up to the expectations, but he's consistently hit RHP with power outside of 2014. As mentioned in other places, he generates elite hard contact and there's reason to think his hitting profile would work in Fenway. I think his chance of being an upgrade over Shaw is more likely than the opposite.
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Moreland was a 17th round pick and Shaw was a 9th. Honestly pedigree doesn't matter at this point. He's had over 2000 PA and basically is what he is.

Here is Steamer's projection for both from the recent fangraphs article comparing the two. http://www.fangraphs.com/projections.aspxpos=all&stats=bat&type=steamer600&team=0&lg=all&players=l29606

That's based on both of them getting 600 at bats. I have no clue of Shaw's actual usage, but that projection includes both of them facing lefties and takes Shaw's corner defense capability into account.
 
foulkehampshire

foulkehampshire

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grimshaw said:
Moreland was a 17th round pick and Shaw was a 9th. Honestly pedigree doesn't matter at this point. He's had over 2000 PA and basically is what he is.

Here is Steamer's projection for both from the recent fangraphs article comparing the two. http://www.fangraphs.com/projections.aspxpos=all&stats=bat&type=steamer600&team=0&lg=all&players=l29606

That's based on both of them getting 600 at bats. I have no clue of Shaw's actual usage, but that projection includes both of them facing lefties and takes Shaw's corner defense capability into account.
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I never said anything about draft pedigree. Moreland was a better minor league player, espcially in AA/AAA.

The 2000 PA's tell do tell us what he his, I agree.
  • He has very, very good opposite field power and most of his flyballs are clustered to RF.
  • Established history of hitting RHP.
  • One of the best defensive 1B since he came into the game
I know the results have been similar so far, but there's plenty of differences in the way they hit. That article tells you nothing of how the change of ballparks might effect future performance.
 
Oppo

Oppo

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Is the Moreland signing official yet?

I'd strongly consider capitalizing on the market and offer EE a high dollar 1 year deal, let him mash in Fenway and hit FA next year without the same draft pick loss to sign
 
Jack Clarks CFP

Jack Clarks CFP

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TheoShmeo said:
And given the apparent need to dump him (Buchholz) now, why they picked up the option in the first place.

I know, 20/20 hindsight is just that, but if Sale was in their sights, and he clearly was, then this domino was always going to file if they succeeded.
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Sale may have been in their sights, but he wasn't in their rotation - at least not yet. Are you saying they should have assumed that they would complete a trade that didn't happen mid-season, and that the Nationals were the front-runners on right up to the last minute?

I would be pissed if they did, personally. If they had lost out on Sale, Buchholz would have been a serviceable option for the rotation. He was available for a slight overpay for a team that doesn't really miss the money and he can now potentially be traded for a mid-level prospect or two to help restock the minors.

His option was an insurance policy that they now don't seem to need to cash; it's that simple. When that happens, you count yourself lucky. You don't bitch about all the premium you paid when you never had a claim.
 
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