The off-season

MikeM · Dec 1, 2016

trekfan55 said:
My biggest question is how does this affect the mega FA class for the 2018 season.

Probably will have pretty much zero effect on what the previous outcome would of been anyway. While it certainly effects the ceiling potential involved the new Dodger Tax isn't going to stop them in their tracks from signing a Bryce Harper type if they really want him. They'll chalk up the extra 40 cents on the dollar more then they were already being taxed anyway on the cost of doing business, and in a couple years from now MLB will once again be left feigning surprise that the attempt to implant a cap without actually implanting a hard cap didn't quite play out the way they had envisioned.

It's the lead up to that which gets most effected here imo, as teams look to start cashing out at the deadline before the final year at the latest on some of these guys. This winter and upcoming deadline should be pretty fun in that regard.

RedOctober3829 · Dec 1, 2016

Heyman's latest on the Chris Sale "derby". He lists 5 teams as "separating themselves" one of which is the Red Sox. It's not much in the realm of new information on Sale, but the more his name is out there I would think the chances would increase that at least the White Sox are opening themselves up to trading him.

Superstar White Sox left-hander Chris Sale is on the block, and it appears at least five teams are starting to separate themselves at the forefront of talks: the Nationals, Astros, Red Sox, Rangers and Braves.

That doesn’t mean that any one of these teams is sure to get him, or even that Sale will definitely be traded. In fact, an executive with one of those teams suggests he doesn’t believe Sale is going anywhere. “The asking price is so high it’s hard to imagine he’s getting traded,” says that exec.

Boston is definitely in there pitching, and it should be, though the Red Sox have flown under the radar for once. Red Sox people said their efforts at the deadline were way overplayed, and that may be the case. But while they’ve said the rotation isn’t their current priority, they certainly could use Sale. And there’s no doubt they have the young players to get it done. It was reported here, and elsewhere, that Jackie Bradley was among the pieces the White Sox sought last July, and while giving him up would hurt, Boston could slide Mookie Betts over to center field if need be. They also have two of the more talented young players in the game, in Andrew Benintendi and Yoan Moncada, plus some young pitching pieces such as Eduardo Rodriguez who could round out a package. In play.

http://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/heyman-latest-chris-sale-derby/

chrisfont9 · Dec 1, 2016

trekfan55 said:
My biggest question is how does this affect the mega FA class for the 2018 season.

If Price is a part of that class, then he's opted out. There's your cap room.

grimshaw · Dec 2, 2016

chrisfont9 said:
If Price is a part of that class, then he's opted out. There's your cap room.

I'm wondering if it's a slam dunk if his next few years are like last year. Though, I'm sure he'll be sick of Boston by then if so.

Cesar Crespo · Dec 2, 2016

grimshaw said:
I'm wondering if it's a slam dunk if his next few years are like last year. Though, I'm sure he'll be sick of Boston by then if so.

He pitched 230 innings (led the league) at an ERA+ of 114. If his 2017 and 2018 are the same, I'm guessing he can get more than 4/127 in the winter of 2018. Even at his worst, Price is an above average pitcher who eats tons of innings. The better question is would the Sox try to resign him?

Lose Remerswaal · Dec 2, 2016

Bryan Holaday non-tendered, 1 open spot on the 40 Man Roster

RedOctober3829 · Dec 2, 2016

Heyman says on Tommy Stokke's FanRag podcast that the Red Sox are the best equipped to trade for Sale and that he thinks it's likely he gets dealt this winter.

Minneapolis Millers · Dec 2, 2016

RedOctober3829 said:
Heyman says on Tommy Stokke's FanRag podcast that the Red Sox are the best equipped to trade for Sale and that he thinks it's likely he gets dealt this winter.

I think the Red Sox have a ton of flexibility in the types of packages they could put together to make a deal work. Not many teams have the range of quality we do, from young MLB talent like E-Rod or JBJ to top high minors talent like Moncada to high upside/lower MiLB talent like Devers. We also can offer pitching, catching, and/or power without hurting our MLB roster.

But that said, there are a lot of teams that can put together high value deals that make sense for them and the White Sox. The MFYs have accumulated a ton of prospects. The Rangers still have valuable young chips like Gallo and Profar. Cubs could build deals around Schwarber, Soler or Baez. Just depends on how badly a given team wants Sale.

RedOctober3829 · Dec 2, 2016

Minneapolis Millers said:
I think the Red Sox have a ton of flexibility in the types of packages they could put together to make a deal work. Not many teams have the range of quality we do, from young MLB talent like E-Rod or JBJ to top high minors talent like Moncada to high upside/lower MiLB talent like Devers. We also can offer pitching, catching, and/or power without hurting our MLB roster.

But that said, there are a lot of teams that can put together high value deals that make sense for them and the White Sox. The MFYs have accumulated a ton of prospects. The Rangers still have valuable young chips like Gallo and Profar. Cubs could build deals around Schwarber, Soler or Baez. Just depends on how badly a given team wants Sale.

Stokke highlights Houston as a team that could do a deal with Bregman or Springer as the centerpiece.

Tyrone Biggums · Dec 2, 2016

For Sale I would trade Moncada. But not both Benetendi and Moncada. Here is what I would do.

Tier A (Choose One) Benetendi, Moncada
Tier B (Choose Two) Devers Kopich Pomeranz Groome
Tier C Swihart or Vazquez
Tier D Eduardo Rodriguez

Probably wouldn't be enough but that's as far as the team needs to go. No Bradley no players off the actual MLB roster aside from Drew Pomeranz and Rodriguez

Aside from that...Tyson Ross is a very interesting FA.

Mighty Joe Young · Dec 2, 2016

Tyrone Biggums said:
For Sale I would trade Moncada. But not both Benetendi and Moncada. Here is what I would do.

Tier A (Choose One) Benetendi, Moncada
Tier B (Choose Two) Devers Kopich Pomeranz Groome
Tier C Swihart or Vazquez
Tier D Eduardo Rodriguez

Probably wouldn't be enough but that's as far as the team needs to go. No Bradley no players off the actual MLB roster aside from Drew Pomeranz and Rodriguez

Aside from that...Tyson Ross is a very interesting FA.

Man .. that's nuts .. you are suggesting the marginal upgrade (not suggesting it's small .. maybe 2 wins ) from Rodriguez to Sale is worth half the farm system??? Four of our top 10 prospects including #1 or #2?

Geez .. I wouldn't trade that for any player in baseball. I think people are seriously underestimating Eduardo Rodriguez. He has a pretty good chance of a major breakout this year.

BoSoxFink · Dec 2, 2016

BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
Man .. that's nuts .. you are suggesting the marginal upgrade (not suggesting it's small .. maybe 2 wins ) from Rodriguez to Sale is worth half the farm system??? Four of our top 10 prospects including #1 or #2?

Geez .. I wouldn't trade that for any player in baseball. I think people are seriously underestimating Eduardo Rodriguez. He has a pretty good chance of a major breakout this year.

Yea I have to agree. He basically said Moncada, Devers, Swihart and Rodriguez would still not be enough? That's insane to me

Minneapolis Millers · Dec 2, 2016

BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
Man .. that's nuts .. you are suggesting the marginal upgrade (not suggesting it's small .. maybe 2 wins ) from Rodriguez to Sale is worth half the farm system??? Four of our top 10 prospects including #1 or #2?

Geez .. I wouldn't trade that for any player in baseball. I think people are seriously underestimating Eduardo Rodriguez. He has a pretty good chance of a major breakout this year.

Agreed. If pitching is at such a premium, then why are people here treating a young LHP starter who throws mid 90s and has had MLB success as a throw-in to a trade? E-Rod would be the centerpiece, or at least half the haul.

MikeM · Dec 3, 2016

RedOctober3829 said:
Heyman says on Tommy Stokke's FanRag podcast that the Red Sox are the best equipped to trade for Sale and that he thinks it's likely he gets dealt this winter.

Sounds a lot like the Sonny Gray possibility of last winter to me (who I also recall Heyman eventually beating the "great fit to the Red Sox" drum on).

I still think Matt Harvey is the more likely big name SP to get dealt this winter if anybody does go. The Mets could use balance help elsewhere that is not coming in the form of aging/expensive free agents, and post-CBA I'm not sold they would really gain anything by ticking Harvey's clock down further (especially with Boras as his agent) instead of simply cashing in now on his upside appeal in a down market.

Papelbon's Poutine · Dec 3, 2016

All I will say is it's fitting to see Heyman now writing for a site that has the word 'rag' in its title.

Tyrone Biggums · Dec 3, 2016

BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
Man .. that's nuts .. you are suggesting the marginal upgrade (not suggesting it's small .. maybe 2 wins ) from Rodriguez to Sale is worth half the farm system??? Four of our top 10 prospects including #1 or #2?

Geez .. I wouldn't trade that for any player in baseball. I think people are seriously underestimating Eduardo Rodriguez. He has a pretty good chance of a major breakout this year.

It's really not a marginal upgrade. You have to be realistic if you want a player like Sale. I never said it made much sense BUT this would be the price. If you read the reports that the return has to be higher than Shelby Miller then it starts with Moncada plus. So when looking at it this way right off the bat the ChiSox will be asking for Moncada Kopech Benetendi and probably someone else. Maybe Devers. Obviously not giving up Benetendi and Moncada in any deal.

I could say I only feel comfortable trading Eduardo and Swihart for Sale but that's not realistic. If a trade for Sale occurs and no major leaguers are used outside of Rodriguez then it's going to hurt. Especially when the Astros and that loaded system is involved. Look at the price Pomeranz ran at the deadline. Sure he had more years of control but he's nowhere in the stratosphere of Sale.

As for not trading this package for anyone in baseball? Come on man. Angels would laugh at this offer for Trout.

Does it make sense for the Sox to acquire Sale? That's a whole different argument. I was just offering my view point on what I would be willing to give up push come to shove. But it does probably not make the most sense to blow most of your assets on Chris Sale. For Trout? I would give up that package and not think twice.

E5 Yaz · Dec 3, 2016

You could easily see the Red Sox and White Sox or Red Sox and Tigers hooking up on a megadeal. The Red Sox could easily pull off a Chris Sale-Jose Abreu trade if they’re willing to give up Andrew Benintendi or Yoan Moncada, as well as Jackie Bradley Jr., Eduardo Rodriguez, and Blake Swihart. They could pull off a Miguel Cabrera-Justin Verlander deal with the Tigers if they were willing to include the above players or add Michael Kopech.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/12/03/nick-cafardo-here-are-some-scenarios-that-could-develop-baseball-winter-meetings/xagNgSoNCGhQgTPQgab3MP/story.html

Ah, Nick

the moops · Dec 3, 2016

Probably never a good idea to find perhaps the most lopsided, and critically panned trade of the past decade to make a point.

Shelby Miller cost Swansy, Blair, and Inciarte. A comparable trio from the Sox from a year ago would be what, something like Benintendi, Owens, and Bradley?

Jesus I forgot just how awful that trade was.

I can't believe any team would come anywhere close to a Moncada, Devers, Swihart, Kopech, and Rodriguez deal though.

Minneapolis Millers · Dec 3, 2016

E5 Yaz said:
....Ah, Nick

Well, in fairness, he's right. Those packages would be able to land either of those pairs of players! Of course, we'd be looking for our pitchforks, especially on the Detroit deal.

Question: Would Miggy get his remaining deal on the FA market right now? I'm not so sure.

Also, I remain puzzled over this board's apparent low valuations of our own pitchers. If Boston really is in on Sale, I'd imagine they'd be talking about including E-Rod or (less likely because of the fewer years of control) Pomeranz, in part because we don't need 4 LH starters. But also in part because of their own significant value. So, my question: What are E-Rod and Pom worth? Would people here trade E-Rod for A.Espinoza? I wouldn't. What would a team like Houston give up for E-Rod?

RedOctober3829 · Dec 3, 2016

On to Plan B to replace Ortiz. Buster Olney says Beltran has agreed to sign with Houston.

TimScribble · Dec 3, 2016

StuckOnYouk · Dec 3, 2016

So did we not have interest, or did he not have interest in Boston? How do you not beat that offer? No 1st rounder loss, guy had a very good season last year, switch hitter.
Dammit

DeadlySplitter · Dec 3, 2016

Only 1 year? How?

BoSoxFink · Dec 3, 2016

Maybe I'm wrong, which I probably am, but this has me believing the sox are in big time on Encarnacion. He was rumored to be close to signing with Houston last week and now all of a sudden Houston signs Beltran. If the sox aren't beating that for Beltran I think they have to be in on something bigger.

DeadlySplitter · Dec 3, 2016

^ I 100% agree. Papi also maybe in their ear with "we need some thunder in the DH position" (OK this is probably BS)

RedOctober3829 · Dec 3, 2016

Rumors are that the Yankees are in on EE along with Rangers and Blue Jays. Red Sox probably know the number they need to be at for him. Whether they want to go towards Hanley's deal or higher for him is another story.

StuckOnYouk · Dec 3, 2016

Beltran for 1 year and keeping your 1st is miles ahead of EE for 4 or 5......If Beltran just wants to play down south, understandable but I'd love to here what our approach was on this.

MikeM · Dec 3, 2016

I'm left guessing that maybe a desire to play a little more outfield (in what could be his last season) then Beltran would have here might of played into it? That and he's buying into the "Houston is out there making moves" buzz, which in general players seem to have a tendency to do.

Sucks though because he really was the best visible short term fit and fix. Should be interesting to see how DD responds plan-wise to not getting his guy (assuming it was of course).

johnnywayback · Dec 3, 2016

I would assume that Beltran enjoyed playing in Houston and that we couldn't have gotten him for the same offer they did. And while I certainly would have enjoyed having him for 1/$16m, I don't think I wanted him badly enough to offer him a guaranteed second year (which he may not have wanted anyway) or a vastly bigger number. Oh well. On to Matt Holliday or Steve Pearce or whoever.

RedOctober3829 · Dec 3, 2016

Heyman says no EE for Red Sox.

Mueller Lite · Dec 3, 2016

Yea this is a head scratcher for me. I always thought the range of a 1 year deal for him would be 16-18 mil and for him to get the bottom of that is strange. Maybe he preferred to play for Houston that he left a little money on the table. Now the Red Sox have to bid against Yankees, Blue Jays and a mystery team or two that could get to 5 years and 25 AAV PLUS a 1st round pick. They're really up against the luxury tax threshold.

HangingW/ScottCooper · Dec 3, 2016

I find it hard to believe the Sox couldn't go 1 year/$20 mil for Beltran.

MikeM · Dec 3, 2016

Mueller Lite said:
Yea this is a head scratcher for me. I always thought the range of a 1 year deal for him would be 16-18 mil and for him to get the bottom of that is strange. Maybe he preferred to play for Houston that he left a little money on the table. Now the Red Sox have to bid against Yankees, Blue Jays and a mystery team or two that could get to 5 years and 25 AAV PLUS a 1st round pick. They're really up against the luxury tax threshold.

Beltran has already made over $200m in his career to date, and at 40 looks to have entered the year-to-year mindset stage on how long he intends to keep playing.

At this point an extra million dollars or two was probably never going to be a major piece of the decision equation there.

Papelbon's Poutine · Dec 3, 2016

Perhaps the Sox just weren't as hot and heavy on him as was rumored?

RedOctober3829 · Dec 3, 2016

Sources: #Nationals remain in talks with #WhiteSox on Sale and #Pirates on McCutchen. #RedSox open on Sale, but only at lesser asking price.

Mueller Lite · Dec 3, 2016

Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:
Anyone have a sense of what Holliday is going to get? Keep him out of the field and sign him for a couple years and I'd be interested.

I feel like you could get him for 1 year at 10 mil. I don't think you need to stretch to 2 years in order to get the 38 year old DH. I think he gets 12 mil max. Napoli is a guy who probably gets 2 years and a couple mil more than Holliday. More like 2 years 24-26 mil

soxhop411 · Dec 3, 2016

“@bradfo: When asked what they thought Red Sox Plan B was after Beltran signing, one MLB exec surmised "Sandoval"”

Sandy Leon Trotsky · Dec 3, 2016

Some of the Sale trade proposals are reminding me an awfully lot of the Santana trade talk back in the '07(?) offseason.
Santana and Sale both were/are top notch starters for several seasons in a row with both Lester and EdRod as the Twins/White Sox immediate replacements. Then toss in Ellsbury/Moncada.
I was against that deal as Santana was showing some signs of not being the dominant force he was, similar to Sale while Lester Edrod were still young with limited success but big promise along with some worrisome flaws (Lesters BB rate at the time and EdRods pitch tipping).

Dewey'sCannon · Dec 3, 2016

On Beltran, I tend to agree with others who have noted that his previous tenure and comfort level with Houston may have played an important role (even the Yankees had an advantage over the Sox in that regard). I doubt that they were really outbid on what truly seemed to be their #1 option.

But I don't think this will change their thinking on EE. I think they will keep shopping in the 1-2 yer contract aisle, looking at Napoli, Holliday, etc. But other options could certainly open up if they were to trade JBJ (which I assume would only be part of a blockbuster for an ace or middle-of-the-order bat).

Edit: Trading for VMart still an option also.

And I'm encouraged by Rosenthal's comments - Sox still interested in Sale, but only if the price comes down.

Plympton91 · Dec 3, 2016

For Sale I don't see going any further than EdRo, Vazquez, and a throw in. Even that is probably too much if you look at hard data and reasonable projections instead of letting your gut do the negotiating. If that's not enough for the WS, walk away. They don't need to trade Sale and Boston doesn't need to trade for Sale either. Boston has the reigning Cy Young winner and a second perennial contender for the award. Behind them are 4 major league average starters and two guys who are still prospects in Owens and Johnson. I wouldn't spend a minute thinking about upgrading the starting pitching. They're fine there.

PapaSox · Dec 3, 2016

What is it with all the noise from the board about sending JBJ off? How will the Sox replace his defense? Don't tell me Betts cause then you got to fill the hole in RF. The guy had a 29 game hitting streak, hit 26 HR with 87 RBI & 94 runs. These are good numbers to be throwing away. Yeah! he was a tad weak offensively down the stretch but his defense remained as good as you can get.

Trading for Sale-Abreu and throwing in JBJ gives you a hole in CF and adds another DH-1B type in to the mix. Sure Sale would help the rotation but you still have a hole in the OF. Miggy & Verlander gets you the same. Why would the Sox make a trade that creates a hole in the OF and force them to trade or sign a FA to fill it. Sounds like creating a problem where one does not exist.

Now, if you throw J.D in with Miggy & Verlander or Eaton with Sale & Abreu you're talking a trade that adds rather than takes away.

Trading Moncada, Devers, Kopech, Swihart, and Rodriguez for Sale, Abreu & Eaton I can actually stomach.

PapaSox · Dec 3, 2016

Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:
Benintendi is a CF and would move over to replace him.
I don't necessarily endorse trading JBJ, but I think Betts is locked into RF regardless.

I agree Betts should stay locked in RF. If the Sox move Benintendi to CF who takes LF? I think the OF is set and should be left alone. Let's see what Benintendi can do in LF for a full season. The more I think about it the better I like it. This looks like an OF where fly balls go to die.

johnnywayback · Dec 3, 2016

Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:
Benintendi is a CF and would move over to replace him.
I don't necessarily endorse trading JBJ, but I think Betts is locked into RF regardless.

It's not clear that Benintendi would be any better than an average CF. He's never been seen as a plus defender, just potentially capable of holding down CF, and what we saw in the small sample in LF last year was a guy with mediocre instincts and a below-average, if not Ellsburian, arm. So, yes, that would be the plan, but I'd be careful about underestimating the defensive downgrade it would involve.

DeadlySplitter · Dec 3, 2016

JBJ's aggregate offensive numbers are pretty damn good, but there's something to be said that those numbers coming in super hot and super cold streaks hurts his value a bit. *cue sabermetric counterargument*

Saints Rest · Dec 3, 2016

DeadlySplitter said:
JBJ's aggregate offensive numbers are pretty damn good, but there's something to be said that those numbers coming in super hot and super cold streaks hurts his value a bit. *cue sabermetric counterargument*

Not sure if you were trying to be facetious with your asterisk, but that is exactly what the studies suggest: that given two players with similar large sample size stats, the more valuable one is the one who accrues those thru streamlines rather than through steadiness. In this case, the hare beats the tortoise.

Green Monster · Dec 3, 2016

Mets said to be open to trading Granderson and/or Bruce. Given their starting pitching question marks, I wonder if a Buchholz for Bruce deal would make sense. It would be salary neutral. Bruce is no Ortiz but 33HR and 99RBI is not shabby. Could serve as the primary DH or slide into LF if a bigger deal for JBJ/Benny materializes.

Devizier · Dec 3, 2016

Not for nothing, but Beltran is projected for 0.5 WAR (roughly) next year, by two projection systems.

Forty is a tough age to be, and $16-18 million for an old DH is far too much. I'd rather pay for a flier, or at least someone who can play the field.

The off-season

Member

Member

Member

Member

79

Experiencing Furry Panic

Member

Wants you to please think of the Twins fans!

Member

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion

The North remembers

Stripes

has big, douchey shoulders

Wants you to please think of the Twins fans!

Member

Homeland Security

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion

polka king

Member

Wants you to please think of the Twins fans!

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Member

Stripes

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

New Member

Member

Member

Homeland Security

has big, douchey shoulders

Member

New Member

news aggravator

Member

Member

bubble burster

New Member

has big, douchey shoulders

New Member

Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Member