The 2016 World Series. How the Red Sox helped build this year's champion.

Lose Remerswaal · Oct 20, 2016

I was waiting for the Rich Hill/Josh Reddick portion of the program. Not that I think Reddick would be a step up from our new, young outfield. But Rich Hill in the rotation might have been nice. I mean if we're wishcasting since they had enough starters to begin the year and I'm not sure his numbers would have been better than Wright's

simplicio · Oct 20, 2016

Less of a one that got away situation, but don't leave out Dave Roberts, who's managing the hell out of the Dodgers club in a way that strikes me as pretty Tito-esque.

moondog80 · Oct 20, 2016

The Red Sox weren't in a position to essentially guarantee Rich Hill a slot in the rotation the way the A's were.

KiltedFool · Oct 20, 2016

Mapping all the links between and through the Cubs, Tribe, Sox, Jays and Dodgers would take a map like xkcd tends to make. The number of subplots is ridiculous.

grimshaw · Oct 20, 2016

TimScribble said:
I have this unhealthy obsession reliving decisions of the past. A revisionist's history if you will. Maybe I have a glutton for punishment or maybe I'm one of those people that over analyzes every decision in life, thinking about what I could have done differently. Saying all of that, I can't help but watch the three remaining teams (Cubs, Indians, Dodgers) and think about how the Red Sox had help in creating all these teams.

2016 Los Angeles Dodgers. The team that the Red Sox probably have the smallest impact on is the Dodgers. The heart of the Dodgers line up is their first baseman, Adrian Gonzalez. We're all pretty familiar with how Gonzalez arrived with the Dodgers. The infamous 2012 "Nick Punto" trade unloaded the Red Sox of the financial burden of Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett. But in doing so, the Red Sox created a void at first base that they have struggled to fill since (more on that to come).

Mike Napoli at 1B was a huge contributor to the teams 2013 World Series win for a lot less money and Gonzalez is just an average player at this point in his career. The do over the Sox got as a result was absolutely instrumental as well to that win. That trade was a slam dunk win for the Red Sox, one of the best they've ever had regardless of the fringe guys they got back. I think at this point, the Red Sox contribution is a complete non-factor.

Trading Rizzo was probably the move that bugged me the most. He was tearing up the minors and it was clear he was going to be a monster. Then again - Theo traded him bolstering his future success in Chicago, so really we can't have that one both ways.

Lackey was out of their control no matter what, and they signed Porcello for less money and more prime years in lieu of Lester. I think we need to call that one a wash at this moment, and potentially a long term win. Porcello has his one year gut punch, and the back end of Lester's deal is not likely to end well.

Bottom line, only one of those teams in 2017 will match the one World Series win the Red Sox have since any of these moves, and few can argue they aren't set up for contention for at least the next few years. Their franchise hasn't been in better shape since 2004.

simplicio · Oct 20, 2016

Also, from Spier's newsletter a couple days ago:

Meanwhile, Dodgers third baseman Justin Turner’s homer against Jake Arrieta offered a different sort of reminder. According to multiple major league sources, the Red Sox thought they were on the cusp of signing the third baseman to a minor league deal before the 2014 season, after the Mets had released him. Instead, the Dodgers swooped in late and signed the Southern California native to a one-year, $1 million deal.

In the subsequent three years, Turner has hit .296/.364/.492, quietly emerging as a star. There is a chance that, as a free agent this winter, he will command more than the five-year, $95 million deal that the Red Sox conferred upon Pablo Sandoval after the 2014 season. Of course, had the Red Sox in fact landed Turner, there’s an excellent chance they wouldn’t have been in the market for Sandoval that winter.

That could have had a substantial effect: no '14 Drew, no X at 3b, no Panda, Shaw as backup or trade bait.

nvalvo · Oct 21, 2016

KiltedFool said:
Mapping all the links between and through the Cubs, Tribe, Sox, Jays and Dodgers would take a map like xkcd tends to make. The number of subplots is ridiculous.

Part of this is a thing that always interests me, the way certain FOs seem to have distinctive taste in players, and those tastes can overlap. Some players, of course, are obviously great, and all teams are going to be interested. It's the fringier guys, guys with particular limitations, where this is clear.

The most famous example is that the Twins don't seem to care about strikeout rates for starting pitchers. The stats bear this one out. But more subtly, when the Rays acquired Brad Miller, that seemed retroactively obvious to me. Of course TB wants a low-range shortstop who can't hit for average but has respectable power to play the 1B/LF (Miller sounds kind of like Hanley, now that I type it out). But I would have been shocked if Anaheim or St. Louis had acquired Miller. Cleveland and Oakland have long seemed to like a lot of the same players, although I wonder if that will survive Shapiro moving to Toronto. Pronk would have made a *ton* of sense as an Athletic, right?

I guess what I'm saying is that it's a good thing if your FO is interested in all the same players as successful teams. You can't draw the same thick mesh of relationships between the Tribe, Dodgers, Cubs and... the Diamondbacks, let's say.

Although with Hazen in charge, that will probably change over a few seasons.

trekfan55 · Oct 23, 2016

First off, and it pains me to write this, but Tito is gone after 2011 no matter what happened in the FO.

Second, it is usual and normal for teams to offer "upgrades" to members of other teams' front offices. So the Cubs offered Theo the upgraded job of President of baseball operations. Whether the FO should have "fought for him" or fired LL then and offered Theo his job is the question. But Theo took that chance and I don't blame him.

I am also on board the revisionist history train of signing Beltre, leaving Youks at 1B and eventually bringing up Rizzo. The only quibble I have is that I was informed that the draft picks for losing Beltre netted Swihart and JBJ.

simplicio · Oct 23, 2016

I've always wondered about that last bit- doesn't not having JBJ in the pipeline mean we outbid NY to retain Dreamboat? Yuck.

JimD · Oct 27, 2016

Theo is on record as believing that that executives like him have a 10-year shelf life before it's time to move on. The Cubs were going to get him sooner or later.

Al Zarilla · Nov 2, 2016

Wrong thread.

Lose Remerswaal · Nov 3, 2016

Ringer also forgot Coco and Mike Martinez. Sad.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Nov 3, 2016

TimScribble said:
I remember EV I believe, clamoring for Boston to resign Beltre and keep Youk at 1B. That would have kept Rizzo at Boston. Certainly would be interesting to see how that one played out if it went that route.

IIRC, EV wanted to move Beltre into LF in that scenario, because he wanted to keep Beltre AND trade for Gonzalez.

Which, you know, was crazypants.

bosockboy · Nov 3, 2016

It was neither. He was stumping that Beltre could play SS, move Youk to 3B and trade for Gonzalez.

The 2016 World Series. How the Red Sox helped build this year's champion.

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