Patriots acquire Lions OLB Kyle Van Noy

jablo1312

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Quintessential Belichick trade. Time is a flat circle. They worked Van Noy out before the 2014 draft. I assume he'll play on special teams and situationally? Who's getting cut/IR'd here?
 

tims4wins

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Quintessential Belichick trade. Time is a flat circle. They worked Van Noy out before the 2014 draft. I assume he'll play on special teams and situationally? Who's getting cut/IR'd here?
Freeny, right? (Freeny was on IR but they needed depth)
 

genoasalami

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Jeff Risdon ‏@JeffRisdon 2m2 minutes ago
Jeff Risdon Retweeted Vosher

Van Noy suffered from both. I loved him at BYU, loved the pick. He never recovered from falling behind w/ early sports hernia issue

Vosher @vosher
@jeffrisdon Is he just thinking too much, or is the pro game just too fast for him? Didn’t seem to have these issues at BYU. Really too bad.
 

Ale Xander

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Draft disappoinments is the new market inefficiency.

From his wiki:
During the 2011 season, Van Noy was the only FBS Division I player to record a stat in each of the following categories: tackle, tackle for loss, sack, interception, pass breakup, quarterback hurry, fumble recovery, forced fumble, blocked kick and touchdown.

Sounds like ST fodder. Maybe they cut Bolden?

Freeny was IR'ed 10 days ago.
 

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Great read from this June at Pride of Detroit, the Lions' SB Nation page by Andrew Cato, a three part series:

The position Van Noy played at BYU gave him opportunities to gamble and rush upfield without worrying about quite as many other assignments: "they are the primary pass-rushers in that defensive scheme." But Austin’s combination multiple 4-3 defense (I would argue it’s "multiple" between 4-3 varieties: base 4-3 and Stunt 4-3) requires its outside linebackers to bear a heavier burden of non-rush duties.

This is why we’ll concentrate on two main ideas: can Van Noy play smart with proper tackling technique, angles, and scheme discipline, and then does Van Noy display the necessary coverage skills to play linebacker the way Austin’s defense needs him to?
www.prideofdetroit.com/2016/6/14/11880008/next-man-up-kyle-van-noy-part-one
www.prideofdetroit.com/2016/6/17/11943138/next-man-up-kyle-van-noy-part-two
www.prideofdetroit.com/2016/6/20/11971602/next-man-up-kyle-van-noy-part-three

Edit, comp is out from @FieldYates:


More info: the Lions are sending Van Noy and a 7th round pick for a 6th round pick, per source.
 
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rodderick

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Maybe I'm being unfair, but I can't recall one of these types of deals that worked out for the Patriots. Most of the time those high draft picks that you can get on the cheap a year or two later just flat out can't play.
 

tims4wins

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Maybe I'm being unfair, but I can't recall one of these types of deals that worked out for the Patriots. Most of the time those high draft picks that you can get on the cheap a year or two later just flat out can't play.
Akeem Ayers worked out well


Edit: Casillas was a good trade too
 

Dollar

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Maybe I'm being unfair, but I can't recall one of these types of deals that worked out for the Patriots. Most of the time those high draft picks that you can get on the cheap a year or two later just flat out can't play.
On October 21, 2014, the Titans traded Ayers along with a seventh round draft pick in the 2015 NFL Draft to the New England Patriots for a sixth round draft choice.[6] In each of his first two games with New England, Ayers recorded a sack.
Ayers won Super Bowl XLIX with the Patriots after they defeated the Seattle Seahawks 28-24.

Edit: dammit, beaten to it. And does the Talib trade count?
 

FredJones

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If we consider players other than linebackers, Akiem Hicks and Aqib Talib both worked out nicely as well.
 

rodderick

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Casillas, along with a 2015 sixth-round draft pick, was traded to the New England Patriots on October 28, 2014, for the Patriots' 2015 fifth-round draft pick.
So? I was talking about high draft picks that the Patriots bring in on the cheap a couple of years after being given up on by the teams that drafted them. Casillas was undrafted out of college, he isn't the type of acquisition I was talking about.

But thanks for the condescension.
 

rodderick

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If we consider players other than linebackers, Akiem Hicks and Aqib Talib both worked out nicely as well.
Talib was a talented but inconsistent corner with off field issues. He had already shown he could play in the NFL.

I'm talking more about the Mingo, Rowe, Bostic, McClellin type of player, guys that were ighly touted out of college but hadn't really done anything before the Pats came calling. Van Noy is a lot more like these guys than he is like Talib, or even Ayers.
 

tims4wins

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So? I was talking about high draft picks that the Patriots bring in on the cheap a couple of years after being given up on by the teams that drafted them. Casillas was undrafted out of college, he isn't the type of acquisition I was talking about.

But thanks for the condescension.
Ah gotcha I missed the part about high draft picks.
 

Ale Xander

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Mike Vrabel was pretty much one of these guys.
Good optimism.
Vrabel had 7 tackles the year before in Pitt then arrived here and had 63. Plus proceeded to have 1.5 INT's the next year.

Patrick Chung is still paying dividends too (Cassel+Vrabel to KC for Chung's draft slot)
 

Super Nomario

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Talib was a talented but inconsistent corner with off field issues. He had already shown he could play in the NFL.

I'm talking more about the Mingo, Rowe, Bostic, McClellin type of player, guys that were ighly touted out of college but hadn't really done anything before the Pats came calling. Van Noy is a lot more like these guys than he is like Talib, or even Ayers.
Yeah, I think these are home run swings with a low percentage chance of working out, but the cost is also minimal. I don't think they should stop trying just because several of them haven't worked out; it's not like it's costing much, and if one or two guys pan out it's going to be worth it.

Van Noy is an interesting guy - he has been slow to key and diagnose, but I also saw him deflect a pass like 30 yards downfield in coverage on T.Y. Hilton, so he's got some skills. He's another guy who is kind of a tweener between a rush linebacker and an off-the-ball guy, which makes him a strange pickup for the Pats, who already have two guys like that who can't get on the field in Mingo and McClellin.
 

Ed Hillel

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I'm talking more about the Mingo, Rowe
Rowe has played the past six quarters and the only time I've seen him/heard his name is when he broke up a pass to AJ Green and drew an OPI flag. I'd say it's a bit early to give up on the guy, especially since he's played well in his limited time.
 

NickEsasky

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I would think so too but there's been too many times where other's trash has become Patriots treasure. Not to this extent, but I'd say they're going to find a role for KVN and he's going to perform well in it.
Yeah just like we were going to turn Mingo into a monster once he got away from Cleveland. Sometimes guys that don't make it big just aren't good enough.
 

j44thor

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I would think so too but there's been too many times where other's trash has become Patriots treasure. Not to this extent, but I'd say they're going to find a role for KVN and he's going to perform well in it.
I have a hard time getting excited about a player that is toolsy but doesn't grasp the mental side of the game. That is not typically a "Patriot player". Jon Bostic an on the offensive side Doug Gabriel stand out as players that didn't work out despite having the physical traits.
 

Stitch01

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Yeah, I think these are home run swings with a low percentage chance of working out, but the cost is also minimal. I don't think they should stop trying just because several of them haven't worked out; it's not like it's costing much, and if one or two guys pan out it's going to be worth it.

Van Noy is an interesting guy - he has been slow to key and diagnose, but I also saw him deflect a pass like 30 yards downfield in coverage on T.Y. Hilton, so he's got some skills. He's another guy who is kind of a tweener between a rush linebacker and an off-the-ball guy, which makes him a strange pickup for the Pats, who already have two guys like that who can't get on the field in Mingo and McClellin.
Yeah the costs for these Mingo, Van Noys, Bostic pieces have been mostly 5th-7th round picks with inherently low probability hit rates. I dont think using them to take swings on guys they liked from past drafts that went in higher rounds is a bad strategy even if it fails most of time (not thinking of guys like Talib or Rowe, those cost more draft capital and are in different categories of moves). My hypothesis is that the Patriots, in some combination, dont generically value the talent in the 5th-7th rounds much more than an undrafted free agents and/or dont think those picks are particularly scarce/hard to acquire if they decide they need a lower round pick on draft day.
 

ifmanis5

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Yeah just like we were going to turn Mingo into a monster once he got away from Cleveland. Sometimes guys that don't make it big just aren't good enough.
Oh come on. Learning a whole new system on the fly, limited snaps and he's still just a rookie. Pretty small sample size to come to a conclusion. Look at how bad Hightower looked when he was rookie. He was 5 steps too slow and behind every play but look at him now. It takes time to learn and time to adjust to the speed of the game.
 

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Mingo was traded for a 5th rounder. His contributions on special teams have likely already well surpassed the median expected return on a 5th round pick.

(Though I suppose to truly know that you'd have to factor in years under team control. But I'd wager on a one season basis Mingo has already contributed more then your average 5th round rookie)
 

InstaFace

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Maybe I'm being unfair, but I can't recall one of these types of deals that worked out for the Patriots. Most of the time those high draft picks that you can get on the cheap a year or two later just flat out can't play.
*cough* Akeem Ayers *cough*
Casillas, along with a 2015 sixth-round draft pick, was traded to the New England Patriots on October 28, 2014, for the Patriots' 2015 fifth-round draft pick.
If we consider players other than linebackers, Akiem Hicks and Aqib Talib both worked out nicely as well.
Mike Vrabel was pretty much one of these guys.
Patrick Chung is still paying dividends too (Cassel+Vrabel to KC for Chung's draft slot)