Celtics 16/17 Roster and Assets

lexrageorge

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Danny couldn't turn his rights into a future 2nd round pick? or included him in a trade
Given that he's never played a single minute in the NBA since being drafted 3 years ago, his value was essentially nil. GM's can only squeeze so much blood from from a stone. Teams would much rather keep their future 2nd rounders where hitting on a future Isiah Thomas is still a possibility; there's no such possibility with a Colton Iverson.
 

the1andonly3003

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Given that he's never played a single minute in the NBA since being drafted 3 years ago, his value was essentially nil. GM's can only squeeze so much blood from from a stone. Teams would much rather keep their future 2nd rounders where hitting on a future Isiah Thomas is still a possibility; there's no such possibility with a Colton Iverson.
rights to overseas players are traded all the time as part of bigger trades or salary dumps
 

Koufax

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So what's your point? That Danny didn't try hard enough? That you know more about how to trade fading second-rate overseas players than he does? Or is it merely confirming the obvious - that there weren't any offers out there for him? If Danny and his aides didn't go full bore on capturing value for Colton Iverson, perhaps their attention was focused on more important matters.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Interesting SI story on Chris Johnson, who is a private NBA development coach and works with (among others) Jaylen Brown, Jimmy Butler, and Jeremi Grant (for the 76er fans here). Here's the part on Jaylen:

SI: And you also have a guy like Jaylen Brown, who’s never played a game. What do you end up working on with him?

Johnson: For a kid like Jaylen, it's footwork. Balance. His ability to play off the catch. His ability to get into an attack position and score efficiently off of one and two dribbles. You don't get a bunch of dribbles in the NBA. I also feel like Jaylen has an opportunity to be able to have a deadly mid-post game. Like other big guards—right now Jimmy is really deadly on his mid-post game.

SI: But the footwork is step one.

Johnson: Exactly. We're not trying to get good at everything. We're focused on a couple things, and footwork is the basic that I'm really focused on. That applies in the post, the mid-post, pick-and-roll, the shooting. Once you've got footwork and balance, and ball-handling, you can get anywhere on the floor.

SI: But what about his role on the Celtics? How do you guys plan for something that hasn't happened yet?

Johnson: We break it down. Boston, I don't want to put it all out there, but you know they they drive in the slots. They're a hard slot-driving team. We need him comfortable in the pick-and-roll, whether it's side pick-and-roll, angle pick-and-roll, or slot pick-and-roll. We need him making corner threes. We take the concepts of what Boston already has in place, and I build that into Jaylen's sessions. So by the time he gets to training camp, he's very familiar with not only the positions that they're going to put him in, but he's got moves and counters that will make him more comfortable as an offensive player.

SI: How much are you talking to the Celtics through this process?


Johnson: They came out and spent a whole week with Jaylen and I. And we worked together on his development. [Teams] all come out. Now, that doesn't happen for a guy who's just trying to make a roster. That happens for the elite guys. They'll give you whatever you need to make sure that player is ready.

SI: Were you in touch with Brad Stevens?

Johnson: I've spoken to everybody around Brad, but I haven't seen Brad yet. But me and Jaylen discuss what Brad's told him. And the other coaches came out, so we saw them.

One thing this article points out is hard much hard work goes on for 98% of the NBA. We've often talked about comparing NBA players of the past to current NBA players but there can be no doubt that the training and development process is off the charts different these days.
 

MetSox1

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The Celtics signed, at least for the moment, Damion Lee. Damion spent a grad year at Louisville as he lost a year to red shirt after tearing up his knee at Madison Square Garden playing for Drexel against Arizona as a junior. He's not the fastest guy around, but has a nose for the ball, a good head on his shoulders and his teammates loved him. And a jump shot. Kid can light up the gym from range and was one of the best free throw shooters in the country in college. At 6'5" and again, not that quick, I'm not sure he's a great defensive fit with what Stevens is tyring to do with this squad, but I'll be rooting hard for a guy who is a really good kid.

If i seem invested in an end of the bench possibility, I am. I cover the Drexel team and spent years writing on the best player I've seen wear the jersey. There are regular arguments amongst the older fans than I over Damion or Malik Rose as Drexel's all time best. I did write about Damion's decision to leave a school that would have retired his number as well.

For the UMass types, I know that Bruiser Flint's camp likes to blame Damion, and the grad transfer rule, for Bruiser's dismissal from Drexel. I will contend that Bru didn't win with Lee, and had 15 shots to win a conference title. It was well passed time for the school to make a move with the coaching staff, and Damion didn't have a thing to do with that.
 

TheDeuce222

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Other than making the reprehensible choice to go play for Rick Pitino, I liked Lee as a college player a lot. He never looked like an NBA talent to me (not great on defense, struggled badly against good defenses like Virginia and Miami, poor shot selection, bad assist to turnover ratio, etc.) but he seems like a guy who will have a chance to make a boatload of money in Europe and maybe have a chance in the league if he improves on defense and can accept being a role player (definitely a question mark on the latter). Will be interesting to see if Brad gives him a couple minutes in preseason games.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Kevin McHale on Danny Ainge:

“It’s funny because Danny is going about it the right way, he’s not panicking. He’s not going to make a deal just to do something,” McHale said. “He’s got a lot of assets. Believe me, that’s just the opposite [of him]. Danny is one of the most impulsive people I know and I’m just shocked he doesn’t make a trade every week. He’s really a disciplined general manager, which is funny because he’s a very undisciplined person. He’s one of my best friends."
 

HomeRunBaker

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It appears as if he’s still looking to make a deal with the Sixers for Jahlil Okafor, who has been slow to take the court in preseason after having offseason knee surgery, or giving this current roster a shot with Al Horford, Kelly Olynyk and Amir Johnson rotating between the big men spots.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/demarcus-cousins-trade-rumors-kings-celtics-isaiah-thomas/1kqzawxj34g2h1osbei3p50jl0

I've never been fooled by the Cousins talks as I never felt the Kings were looking to move their franchise player but of course Okafor makes a ton of sense on multiple levels......he's cheap and cost-controlled for 3 more years (Ainge loves this shit), ready to contribute immediately to rotation, and should be able to be acquired for relatively little as Colangelo has zero leverage. I felt at the deadline last year that this would get done in the summer but Colangelo choose to play hardball. At some point he HAS to do something with his 3 bigs especially now with Noel calling him out publicly in a contract year so no I don't feel like this deal is dead and won't be until Colangelo plays a hand. I would so much prefer Okafor in our big rotation over Zeller right now and through the spring of 2019 at the same price tag.

 

Jed Zeppelin

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What do you even offer at this point, though? Any Nets pick is a hard pass. YMMV but I feel the same about Smart and Rozier is getting there with his brand of scoring a necessity. What does that leave, future picks + filler, just don't see Philly biting that bullet.

If the ask is anything higher, I'd just as soon wait for Zizic next year.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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What do you even offer at this point, though? Any Nets pick is a hard pass. YMMV but I feel the same about Smart and Rozier is getting there with his brand of scoring a necessity. What does that leave, future picks + filler, just don't see Philly biting that bullet.

If the ask is anything higher, I'd just as soon wait for Zizic next year.
I think you're right. There's probably another team out there willing to give up more than that, so I don't know if Danny will get a deal done with Philly. I'm not willing to give up any Nets pick, either.

I'm having trouble finding an offer PHI would like that isn't 25 cents on the dollar. I don't want to move Smart or Rozier at this point, either, unless it's for a true stud like Cousins. Does Philly do Okafor for Jerebko, '17 C's 1st, '19 LAC 1st? I don't think so. And I don't really want to give up Jerebko's 3 point shooting, something this team really needs.
 

BigSoxFan

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This is a swap year so, barring an unmitigated disaster, Danny only has Brooklyn's pick to dangle. Obviously, the 2017 & 2018 Nets picks are only in play for a star like Cousins. Only way I could see a deal happening is if we trade some non-Nets 2018-2019 picks and a guy like Zizic or Yabusele. Colangeo really is in a bad spot here and we're in a perfect negotiating position.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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Crap, you're right. My offer should've been an '18 C's 1st, not this year's that will be heading to Brooklyn. But I think we're saying the same thing. Good negotiating position, but tough to see Philly biting on that kind of offer. Something like Yabu, Jerebko and a future non-BKL 1st?
 

nighthob

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What do you even offer at this point, though? Any Nets pick is a hard pass. YMMV but I feel the same about Smart and Rozier is getting there with his brand of scoring a necessity. What does that leave, future picks + filler, just don't see Philly biting that bullet.

If the ask is anything higher, I'd just as soon wait for Zizic next year.
I know HRB loves him, but has there ever been a credible rumor that Boston was interested in Okafor for his own sake? The only real smoke I ever saw was during the Butler talks last February, but that was a three team deal. The minute the Bulls said no Boston stopped returning Philly's phone calls about trading for him. After that the only other credible rumor was about Philly trying to trade Noel and scraps for #3.

So I'm still not seeing it. There's no way I'd give up anything of value for a backup C that has no real future here.
 

Swedgin

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http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/demarcus-cousins-trade-rumors-kings-celtics-isaiah-thomas/1kqzawxj34g2h1osbei3p50jl0

....but of course Okafor makes a ton of sense on multiple levels......he's cheap and cost-controlled for 3 more years (Ainge loves this shit), ready to contribute immediately to rotation, and should be able to be acquired for relatively little as Colangelo has zero leverage. I felt at the deadline last year that this would get done in the summer but Colangelo choose to play hardball. At some point he HAS to do something with his 3 bigs especially now with Noel calling him out publicly in a contract year so no I don't feel like this deal is dead and won't be until Colangelo plays a hand. I would so much prefer Okafor in our big rotation over Zeller right now and through the spring of 2019 at the same price tag.
i get why Noel is pissed being a RFA, but have hard a time seeing Conlangelo doing anything in the short to near term, given that as HRB correctly noted, Philly has little leverage now. In light of Simmons injury and Embid's minutes limit, there will be adequate playing time for Noel, Embid, Saric and Okafor. Seems like the smart course would be to give it time to 1) see how the various combinations can fit together (or not), 2) allow Okafor and/or Noel a chance to build some trade value through their play and 3) have some comfort level that Embid can stay healthy.
 

BigSoxFan

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Crap, you're right. My offer should've been an '18 C's 1st, not this year's that will be heading to Brooklyn. But I think we're saying the same thing. Good negotiating position, but tough to see Philly biting on that kind of offer. Something like Yabu, Jerebko and a future non-BKL 1st?
That's the kind of pupu platter deal I would offer. A lot of people will forget about Yabu and Zizic when discussing potential Celtics deals. I think both players could be solid rotational bigs in the NBA.
 

Swedgin

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That's the kind of pupu platter deal I would offer. A lot of people will forget about Yabu and Zizic when discussing potential Celtics deals. I think both players could be solid rotational bigs in the NBA.
The Sixers need shooting right? We've got just the guys. Young, Hunter and the Celts 2018 first. How can Colangelo say no?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Borderline hagiography w.r.t JBrown (who needs a nickname BTW) here: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2670842-boston-celtics-insider-the-jaylen-brown-train-is-about-to-leave-the-station Key quote:

“I don’t think he’s built to be a role guy for 15 years. I think he has the skill, the ability and the gift to be a star player at some point,” {former coach} Martin said.

“I would say, at this stage—and again, it’s just hard because you don’t want to put stuff out there and say ‘OK, he’s that’—but one of the greatest to ever play the game is Dominique Wilkins. ... A lot of resemblances there, the athleticism, the way they attack the rim, and, again, Dominique went on to become one of the greatest to ever play the game, so I don’t want to put that level of pressure on him, but he’s in a ballpark with that type of talent.”
giggle.
 

BigSoxFan

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Maybe he meant the Celtics version of Dominique? Jokes aside, I'm very bullish on this kid. You can tell the maturity is beyond his years and obviously the physical skill is immense.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Maybe he meant the Celtics version of Dominique? Jokes aside, I'm very bullish on this kid. You can tell the maturity is beyond his years and obviously the physical skill is immense.
It's a fair comp at the same stage of their careers. Dominique had many flaws when he entered the league which was two years later than Jaylen is entering. He didn't defend, couldn't pass, and had a questionable at best jumper. What he could do was score the ball and was an athletic freak.....Jaylen possesses many of Dominique's attributes at the same age so the upside is clearly there. It is of course how he develops his basketball skills that will determine whether he becomes Dominique, Kedrick Brown, or at which level in between.
 

Cellar-Door

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i get why Noel is pissed being a RFA, but have hard a time seeing Conlangelo doing anything in the short to near term, given that as HRB correctly noted, Philly has little leverage now. In light of Simmons injury and Embid's minutes limit, there will be adequate playing time for Noel, Embid, Saric and Okafor. Seems like the smart course would be to give it time to 1) see how the various combinations can fit together (or not), 2) allow Okafor and/or Noel a chance to build some trade value through their play and 3) have some comfort level that Embid can stay healthy.
One thing is... How good would Noel have to be to gain the Sixers value? I mean his value drops with every game that a team doesn't get to have him for, if he plays amazingly sure he may build some value, but he's stuck in a rotation where he's likely to get most of his minutes at his second best position, and where he still is a bad fit for most of the guys he'll share the floor with. Also, if one or more of the teams currently interested in Noel falters early they have less incentive to trade for Noel and more to just wait it out and hit him with an offer sheet.
 

Kliq

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Hope to see Bentil back in Portland; looks like something could be there for him as an NBA prospect.

I think the Dominque comparison is just a small step away from Tommy calling Leon Powe Moses Malone. Wilkins was a scoring machine coming out of Georgia with a great offensive game; the one thing every one knew about him was that he could score the basketball. Brown is a different story; his offensive game is still very much a work in progress and we don't even know if that is going to be an elite skill of his; he might end up being more of a defensive/rebounding guy. I get he is a great leaper; but part of Wilkins success was that he was SO much more athletic than the rest of his peers; really only a couple of guys like MJ and Drexler could jump like him. Brown is an elite athlete, no doubt about it; but it is a different era and almost every team employs someone that can jump like Brown.

I'm high on Jaylen too; but I'm not going to compare him to any HoF player. I think DeMar DeRozan is a good upside comparison for him.
 

luckiestman

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Hope to see Bentil back in Portland; looks like something could be there for him as an NBA prospect.

I think the Dominque comparison is just a small step away from Tommy calling Leon Powe Moses Malone. Wilkins was a scoring machine coming out of Georgia with a great offensive game; the one thing every one knew about him was that he could score the basketball. Brown is a different story; his offensive game is still very much a work in progress and we don't even know if that is going to be an elite skill of his; he might end up being more of a defensive/rebounding guy. I get he is a great leaper; but part of Wilkins success was that he was SO much more athletic than the rest of his peers; really only a couple of guys like MJ and Drexler could jump like him. Brown is an elite athlete, no doubt about it; but it is a different era and almost every team employs someone that can jump like Brown.

I'm high on Jaylen too; but I'm not going to compare him to any HoF player. I think DeMar DeRozan is a good upside comparison for him.

Derozan is slight and Jaylen is not. I don't see it. To me Brown looks like Jeff Green off Benzos which isn't that far away from a Dominique comp/ ceiling
 

Kliq

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Derozan is slight and Jaylen is not. I don't see it. To me Brown looks like Jeff Green off Benzos which isn't that far away from a Dominique comp/ ceiling
DeRozan is listed at 6'7" 221 and Brown is listed at 6'7" 225.
 

luckiestman

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DeRozan is listed at 6'7" 221 and Brown is listed at 6'7" 225.

I don't really care about their scale weight. When I watch them play Brown is physically imposing as a 19 year old and Derozan is not. He's s hell of a player, so it's not a knock.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't really care about their scale weight. When I watch them play Brown is physically imposing as a 19 year old and Derozan is not. He's s hell of a player, so it's not a knock.
This is a strange comment to me on DeRozan. He's arguably the strongest and most physical 2-guard in the league and if not he's certainly on the short list of who is.
 

luckiestman

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This is a strange comment to me on DeRozan. He's arguably the strongest and most physical 2-guard in the league and if not he's certainly on the short list of who is.

I don't see what position has to do with it. Yeah, Derozan is bigger and stronger than Aron Afflalo, I don't see what that has to do with anything.

Brown reminds me more of Leonard or Butler who I think are much more physical than Derozan who reminds me more of Kobe.


Edit: I have a feeling this is going to devolve in to semantics. I'm happy with Brown being Dominique or Derozan
 

Captaincoop

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Late to the conversation, but we're comparing Jaylen Brown to Dominique Wilkins? Nique was an explosive scorer from day one in the league,maybe the best pure scorer of the 80's not named Michael Jordan. And in my memory, anyway, he couldn't defend anyone. Brown seems like almost the mirror image of that.

They have similar haircuts, though.
 

the1andonly3003

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Jay King ‏@ByJayKing 3m3 minutes ago
Ainge doesn't think Ben Bentil will land with the Maine Red Claws. Thinks he wants a place with more opportunity.
I am bigly disappointed that the Ben Bentil pick is now wasted. DA spends seasons wheeling and dealing, and ends up using most of the picks this June. The best thing he could have done was send the picks to future years or sell them for cash.

1 "asset" wasted
 

lexrageorge

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I am bigly disappointed that the Ben Bentil pick is now wasted. DA spends seasons wheeling and dealing, and ends up using most of the picks this June. The best thing he could have done was send the picks to future years or sell them for cash.

1 "asset" wasted
I believe this was already discussed back in June. Sometimes there's not much to be done if the market isn't there. May have been a very different story had the C's landed the #1 or #2 pick, but they didn't.
 

nighthob

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Late to the conversation, but we're comparing Jaylen Brown to Dominique Wilkins? Nique was an explosive scorer from day one in the league,maybe the best pure scorer of the 80's not named Michael Jordan. And in my memory, anyway, he couldn't defend anyone. Brown seems like almost the mirror image of that.
I loved Dominique, but people forget that at the age Jaylen is now Dominique was a Georgia freshman. He didn't arrive in the NBA until he was 23. Their physical profiles are similar, so I'm not sure how off the comparison is. We'll know how well he stacks up when he reaches the age that 'Nique was his last year in college. Because then we'll see how Jaylen's game is rounding into shape.
 

the1andonly3003

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I believe this was already discussed back in June. Sometimes there's not much to be done if the market isn't there. May have been a very different story had the C's landed the #1 or #2 pick, but they didn't.
not every assets need be converted into blue chips...there's always the option of selling the pick or trading for a future pick...right now, Celts get nothing
 

mcpickl

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not every assets need be converted into blue chips...there's always the option of selling the pick or trading for a future pick...right now, Celts get nothing
That's usually what the #51 pick in the NBA draft amounts to right?

Being upset that one of the tiny pieces acquired for Jordan Crawford and Marshon Brooks, both currently out of the league, amounted to nothing seems a bit silly.
 

Cellar-Door

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not every assets need be converted into blue chips...there's always the option of selling the pick or trading for a future pick...right now, Celts get nothing
Well there isn't always the option of trading for a future pick. with seconds that aren't near the top of the round. Not a ton of teams are looking to trade a future pick for a pick in the 50s. Maybe they could have gotten cash, but that doesn't really do anything other than get the owner some cash he doesn't really need. I much prefer a team take a swing on a guy in the hope that either they can keep him on the D-League team or as insurance if a trade happens before the cutdown day.
 

Ale Xander

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Celtics sign F Ryan Kelly and are expected to assign him to Portland
(Sorry on mobile can't link)
 

HomeRunBaker

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I am bigly disappointed that the Ben Bentil pick is now wasted. DA spends seasons wheeling and dealing, and ends up using most of the picks this June. The best thing he could have done was send the picks to future years or sell them for cash.

1 "asset" wasted
It wasn't wasted it was used to get a look-see at a college player who suddenly developed into a deadly shooter over one summer and not much else for the price of $250k. Not surprisingly this player wasn't NBA timber.

The only significant contributors to winning NBA teams over the past 60 years drafted at 51 were Kyle Korver and Jim Peterson of the Rockets of the '80s. Very few even sniff the back end of an NBA roster and that "asset" is a very minimal one.
 

pjheff

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The only significant contributors to winning NBA teams over the past 60 years drafted at 51 were Kyle Korver and Jim Peterson of the Rockets of the '80s.
Out of curiosity, were any winning players drafted #17 or #28?
 

luckiestman

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At #17: Shawn Kemp, Jermaine O'Neal, Danny Granger, and Jrue Holiday.

At #28: Tony Parker. After that it's guys like Tiago Splitter, Greivis Vasquez, and Leandro Barbosa.

What an asshole move leaving Sherman Douglas off your 28 list

Edit: that site I linked doesn't have Parker. They messed up. Wonder if that is because Minn forfeited a pick around there
 

TheRooster

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Strong preference for Hunter despite his slight build. If I squint enough, I can see him being an irrational confidence shooter off the bench later this year. Just haven't seen Young make many/any real basketball plays. And the idea that he came in entitled doesn't help either.