Arsenal 2016-17: Get Ready For A Xhak-attack

MMS - good summary.

I've argued on several occasions that because the football world is so inherently unequal, supporters will tend to take much more joy from outperforming expectations in relative terms than in making positive achievements in absolute terms - so, for example, a West Ham or Southampton fan may have enjoyed their Top 7 league finishes more than a Celtic fan may have enjoyed winning the Scottish league in relatively disappointing style last season. As an Arsenal fan, expectations are such that I think relative enjoyment basically means the following (would you agree?):

1) Short-term: Decisive home wins or any away wins over good teams we may not have expected to beat at all, or thumping multi-goal wins against lesser teams
2) Medium-term: Going on a lengthy run of good results and good performances with no obviously bad performances mixed in (e.g., something like getting at least 25 points out of a possible 30 in the league, with no bad losses part of that mix)
3) Long-term: Winning a domestic cup, seriously challenging for the Premier League title over the entire season, or reaching the quarterfinals of the Champions League

Saturday's win obviously falls into that first bucket - what a joy to finally break the Chelsea hoodoo in such style (and with Chelsea looking so catastrophically bad). That said, stylistically I think Chelsea was a pretty good matchup for Arsenal as the two teams are currently constructed; as such, I'd like to see the club start moving toward a longer run of medium-term achievement before I get too excited. That result means Arsenal have now won five domestic matches in a row (at Watford, vs. Southampton, at Hull, at Forest, vs. Chelsea) while also drawing at PSG within that run, and next up are eight eminently winnable games:

vs. Basel (Champions League)
at Burnley
vs. Swansea
vs. Ludogorets Razgrad (Champions League)
vs. Middlesbrough
vs. Reading (EFL Cup)
at Sunderland
at Ludogorets Razgrad (Champions League)

If Arsenal can do no worse than winning six and drawing two of those games before the much tougher stretch of vs. Tottenham, at Man Utd and vs. PSG, then I'll start getting excited about longer-term prospects.
 
Incidentally, Coquelin probably couldn't have picked a better time to get injured, at least for the club as a whole. The next eight games are all fixtures where Le Coq's one-dimensional water carrying shouldn't be needed relative to Xhaka's more rounded game; hopefully Wenger can figure out how to live without his security blanket and incorporate Xhaka (and Elneny) into a different midfield structure more suitable to coping with less talented but harder working and better organized teams. If the Koscielny-Mustafi axis is as good as suggested, presumably a player like Coquelin would be less needed in the side anyway?
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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A German journalist from SportsBild is reporting that Ozil has agreed a new contract, which will be announced in mid-October. That would be fantastic news if true.


Unfortunately, Sanchez looks like the tougher nut to crack.
 

lars10

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A German journalist from SportsBild is reporting that Ozil has agreed a new contract, which will be announced in mid-October. That would be fantastic news if true.


Unfortunately, Sanchez looks like the tougher nut to crack.
One thing that was nice to see was Sanchez pointing to the Arsenal emblem after he scored and not his name... Both seem to take pride in playing for Arsenal and hopefully the signings over the summer will strengthen that and show that Arsenal is serious about winning.

Edit: hopefully he also sees the benefit of playing with Ozil
 

JimBoSox9

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Also, is it accurate that Arsenal isn't airing live on US TV today? I see Barca, Man City, and Bayern/Atletico (!!) on in that time slot, but no Gunners.
 

lars10

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Sounds like Ozil will get his #10 next year out of the deal, as well. Sorry, Jack.
I was in London a few weeks ago and got an Ozil #10 jersey made.. Mainly just thinking he deserved it and it's what he plays but also rumblings that he wanted to switch and he plays that for Germany.
 

mikeford

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Definitely seemed like they took the foot off the gas in the 2nd half, which is a bummer, cuz they tore Basel to shreds in the first half.
 

miracleofmidre

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One of the best halves of Arsenal football I've seen in a long time. That was Wengerball nirvana and we should have had 4-5.
That entire first half was beyond beautiful, you can see why Wenger aspires to have his teams play this way and is somewhat stubborn about it. Because when it works, man, it is a sight. The speed of interchange was something else.
 

lars10

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Definitely seemed like they took the foot off the gas in the 2nd half, which is a bummer, cuz they tore Basel to shreds in the first half.
My roommate was at the game and said it looked as though they knew they had another game this week and wanted to take it easy. Are you worried about the away leg? Goal differential?
 

soxfan121

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You can't say enough about Alex Iwobi. From what I can gather, nobody within the organization really rated him that highly as a youth player. He didn't have standout technique, or size, or pace and he never produced a lot of goals or assists. He got a courtesy look in a couple England youth teams, as do a lot of players at top clubs, but didn't really impress as an international either. But he kept progressing through the ranks and it turns out that his best attributes - football intelligence, speed of thought, movement without the ball - were ones that really only would come out fully when given the opportunity to play with other players on that wavelength. Its hard to believe he is only 20-years-old as he looks perfectly comfortable intuitively combining with class players like Ozil, Cazorla, and Sanchez. He is basically everything Oxlade-Chamberlain is not.
This is one of the most interesting things I've read in this forum. I think it points at something very important in player development and also at something frustrating for, and about, fans. The goal of a development program should be to refine the "football intelligence, speed of thought, and movement without the ball" of players. The natural skills - speed, strength, technique - are important, but they pale next to the more intangible skills that fuel greatness. Ozil isn't the fastest guy, or the strongest, but goddamn can that guy see the field, know where his teammates are going, and pick a pass.

I understand that y'all are down on Oxlade-Chamberlain, but I feel compelled to point out that all the things you laud about Iwobi's development were absent from AOC's development path. Instead of toiling anonymously and building his intangible skills, AOC was forced to play a role in important games - not to quietly develop his game away from the pressure of a role in an important match. Like a prospect rushed to the majors to fill a hole for the big league club, AOC's development was short circuited for expediency at the senior level. Meanwhile Iwobi was never jammed into a round hole so his rough edges were filed down naturally.

Developing young players is hard business. Yet it is one thing that - on the whole - Wenger seems to do better than most other big name coaches.
 

mikeford

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My roommate was at the game and said it looked as though they knew they had another game this week and wanted to take it easy. Are you worried about the away leg? Goal differential?
GD for winning the group. I'd like to have a year where we dont draw Barcelona or Bayern Munich in the damn 1st knockout round.
 

miracleofmidre

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As good as the last two games were this has been bad. Little movement to break down Burnley, and poor execution or decision making when it looks like there might be an opening. So lethargic. Lots of bodies in the box for Burnley but Arsenal is static, in addition to sloppy.

This is going to be a "how did we win that?" game at best. Don't want to contemplate the worst.
 

blueguitar322

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That was another edition of 'the hand of God'. Goal probably shouldn't have counted. Two undeserved points imho.
 

blueguitar322

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What? DM punched in his goal. This was nothing like that.
Fair enough, at least with regard to intent. No way that Kos would have been able to react in time to intentionally punch it in (or avoid the ball). But regardless, the only goal Arsenal scored today was a hand ball.

Don't think the team played very well, but I'm always happy with an away win, even if lucky and undeserved.
 

mikeford

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That's true if the second Arsenal-PSG game also finishes 1-1; on any other drawn scoreline, the team with more away goals would win the head-to-head tiebreaker. So yes, you're right that goal difference across the group could prove relevant...but given how unlikely this scenario is (1-1 at The Emirates vs. PSG and both teams finishing level on points at the end of the group), I don't think trying to run up the score is worth the effort.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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This is one of the most interesting things I've read in this forum. I think it points at something very important in player development and also at something frustrating for, and about, fans. The goal of a development program should be to refine the "football intelligence, speed of thought, and movement without the ball" of players. The natural skills - speed, strength, technique - are important, but they pale next to the more intangible skills that fuel greatness. Ozil isn't the fastest guy, or the strongest, but goddamn can that guy see the field, know where his teammates are going, and pick a pass.

I understand that y'all are down on Oxlade-Chamberlain, but I feel compelled to point out that all the things you laud about Iwobi's development were absent from AOC's development path. Instead of toiling anonymously and building his intangible skills, AOC was forced to play a role in important games - not to quietly develop his game away from the pressure of a role in an important match. Like a prospect rushed to the majors to fill a hole for the big league club, AOC's development was short circuited for expediency at the senior level. Meanwhile Iwobi was never jammed into a round hole so his rough edges were filed down naturally.

Developing young players is hard business. Yet it is one thing that - on the whole - Wenger seems to do better than most other big name coaches.
Sorry, I missed this while traveling. I think you make a very good point about Ox. Its tempting to conclude that he just doesn't have "it" - a football brain hardwired in the right way I guess - but the nature/nurture question is far from clear when it comes to developing those skills and, as you note, he had an unusual development path in which a lot was asked of him very early. In the Pulisic discussion, I brought up the fact that very few players earn minutes at his age in big clubs and InfieldInfidel (I think) noted that Ox was in that category too. Some players make that leap partly because they are extremely precocious from a football IQ perspective - Gotze and Fabregas come to mind - but Ox was basically a kid in terms of his understanding of the game who happened to reside in a grown man's body with elite physical tools at age 18, arriving in a team that badly lacked quality in attack after RVP/Walcott. Then he spent the last five years playing sporadically, getting injured, and clowning around like he had it made. Its impossible to say but I think there is a chance he would have emerged a better player if he had taken a more conventional path.

On a related note, I just came across this interesting article where Iwobi mentions that the club was very close to booting him from the academy at both age 14 and age 16.
 

mikeford

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Ox said in an article today that getting dropped from England gave him a kick in the ass to try harder.

So far I'd say I haven't noticed a difference.
 

mikeford

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The yin and yang of Theo Walcott on full display this afternoon. Easily could've had 5 goals.

Instead settles for a brace and looking like a total A-hole on the final kick of the game.
 

lars10

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I didn't see the game but isn't it an improvement that at least he had a brace? In the past few years Theo had 5-10 chances and finished none. His two goals today seemed rather strong..seemed to body players off the ball while also using his pace which is a bit new.
 

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Xhaka's ejection was skipped in the highlights I watched. How bad was it? The guy does have a reputation for having a mean streak.
 

Tangled Up In Red

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Xhaka's ejection was skipped in the highlights I watched. How bad was it? The guy does have a reputation for having a mean streak.
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The tackle wasn't outright nasty or injurous, but there wasn't even an illusion to playing the ball. He was a few feet behind the player, the ball was a few feet ahead of player and he made a sliding effort to bring the player down from behind. I have no problem with this being straight red on a) intent and b) lack of excuse or effort to hide intent.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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[Spurs Fan & based only on highlight]
The tackle wasn't outright nasty or injurous, but there wasn't even an illusion to playing the ball. He was a few feet behind the player, the ball was a few feet ahead of player and he made a sliding effort to bring the player down from behind. I have no problem with this being straight red on a) intent and b) lack of excuse or effort to hide intent.
Under what rule would that be a red card? It wasn't dangerous or excessively violent and it didn't deny a goal scoring opportunity. It was just the equivalent of yanking the player back by the shirt - always a yellow, never a red - but he did it with his leg. Awkward and unusual looking, sure. But I'm not sure how it's a red.
 

miracleofmidre

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George Friend, in today's Boro-Watford march, did something quite similar. It wasn't quite as explicit a kick but it was similarly cynical. He wasn't even issued a yellow card.

This wasn't a red by most standards. That said, Wenger not electing to appeal - even as he himself indicates he didn't think it was a red - has got to be a message for Xhaka: cut this shit out, don't leave yourself open to bad judgment by an official.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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That was satisfying. Its been a while since we really just hammered somebody like that.

Since the Leicester draw, we are 9-0-1 in all competitions with 29 goals scored and only 6 conceded. That flatters us a bit, given that we needed last minute winners against Burnley and Southampton and could easily have drawn the Swansea game as well. Nevertheless, its been a pretty good run. We need to take care of business in four more matches we really should win - Boro, Reading (league cup), at Sunderland, away to Ludogorets - then things will get interesting with Spurs, at United, and PSG.
 

wonderland

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Maybe because he's pissed at him for committing that foul and potentially costing his team last game.
 

JimBoSox9

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That was satisfying. Its been a while since we really just hammered somebody like that.

Since the Leicester draw, we are 9-0-1 in all competitions with 29 goals scored and only 6 conceded. That flatters us a bit, given that we needed last minute winners against Burnley and Southampton and could easily have drawn the Swansea game as well. Nevertheless, its been a pretty good run. We need to take care of business in four more matches we really should win - Boro, Reading (league cup), at Sunderland, away to Ludogorets - then things will get interesting with Spurs, at United, and PSG.
Did Arsenal really need to win 6-0 with most of their top lineup playing? If Xhaka is getting banned for the red card, why not start him before he is forced to sit?
I don't know if you can blame Arsne for rolling with something that's finally really working, but all of Santi, Ozil, Sanchez, and maybe Walcott need a match on the bench over the next three games
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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We've has very little Lucas to this point in the season. I really thought he'd be figuring in the starting lin up once he was integrated into the system, but clearly that's not the case and Walcott has actually deserved his run in the starting lineup.

Hopefully a couple quick goals vs Middleborough allows him to jump into the lineup early in the second half.
 

the1andonly3003

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We've has very little Lucas to this point in the season. I really thought he'd be figuring in the starting lin up once he was integrated into the system, but clearly that's not the case and Walcott has actually deserved his run in the starting lineup.

Hopefully a couple quick goals vs Middleborough allows him to jump into the lineup early in the second half.
Xhaka is suspended and Cazorla has an Achilles...everyone else stays in the lineup

I guess we get to see Lucas in the EFL Cup...
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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I'm talking about his inability to get into the lineup period. I really thought he'd be our starting striker 66% of the time with Alexis at his natural position on the wing and less run for Ox and Iwobi.

The results speak for themselves but I've got a bit of a feeling that he's the second coming of Chamakh at the moment.
 

JimBoSox9

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We've has very little Lucas to this point in the season. I really thought he'd be figuring in the starting lin up once he was integrated into the system, but clearly that's not the case and Walcott has actually deserved his run in the starting lineup.

Hopefully a couple quick goals vs Middleborough allows him to jump into the lineup early in the second half.
Iwobi's form is blocking him too, as it would be easy to put Lucas up top and slide Alexis back left.