Yoan Moncada to be called up on Friday

Sprowl

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Perhaps because of the title of this thread? As far as the proposal - I like Holt too but it just so happens he had a great day. The next time Brock goes 0-4 and has a bad day in the field then he'll probably be back to advocating Moncada get another chance. Too much kneejerk thinking here.
Hill needs to get some swings, and Miley should be a good matchup for him. Also, Holt is looking a little banged up (diving back to base isn't just a problem for Steven Wright). Furthermore, Holt may be needed to spell Bogaerts at shortstop. Xander has worn down at the plate, and looks like he could use a few days off when tough RHP are on the mound.

Shaw-Hill isn't a great platoon at 3B, but it's not bad, considering the strength of the rest of the lineup. I'd hold Moncada out strictly for pinch-running duty when no base-stealing is required. He may be 21 years old, but his judgment is still a teenager.
 

mwonow

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Perhaps because of the title of this thread? As far as the proposal - I like Holt too but it just so happens he had a great day. The next time Brock goes 0-4 and has a bad day in the field then he'll probably be back to advocating Moncada get another chance. Too much kneejerk thinking here.
Travis Shaw OPS by month: June, .587; July, .818; Aug, .542. Over those 221 ABs, he's got an aggregate OPS of something like .640.

Yoan Moncada's entire ML game log here: 18 official ABs. 4 for his first 10, 0 for his next 8, with eight strikeouts.

Sure, that last 8 ABs is ugly. But it's 8 ABs.

There's some kneejerk thinking here, for sure, but I'm not sure I'm the source.

As a couple of posters have pointed out, this is really a two-part question.

1. Should Shaw stay in the lineup? The answer to this could be 'yes', though I think that this is the equivalent of saying "he ain't much, but he's all we got." If that's the right answer, fine. I think he's clearly worse than Holt, and maybe not better than Hill or Moncada.
2. Should Moncada play? Well, clearly, in a pennant race, the games are each very important. But is there really likely to be a big performance downside to Moncada vs. Shaw (or Hill)? I suppose. I'm just not sure there's a lot of upside to playing Shaw or Hill, though, and I think there could be with Moncada.
 

simplicio

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9 straight Ks now. Guess we'll just have keep getting 9 run leads to get him more ABs. Have to learn to hit breaking stuff sometime, right?
 

kazuneko

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Travis Shaw OPS by month: June, .587; July, .818; Aug, .542. Over those 221 ABs, he's got an aggregate OPS of something like .640.
Considering that Shaw is famously streaky, I think it's also worth noting that his September OPS is 1.101. I'm not a big fan of Farrell, but going with the hot bat of a streaky veteran makes a lot of sense - even when that same veteran struggled in the previous month.

1. Should Shaw stay in the lineup? The answer to this could be 'yes', though I think that this is the equivalent of saying "he ain't much, but he's all we got." If that's the right answer, fine. I think he's clearly worse than Holt, and maybe not better than Hill or Moncada..
Shaw now has 730 major league plate appearances and has a career wOBA of 332. Brock Holt's best season came in 2015 when he put up a wOBA of .322. Fangraphs also rates Holt a subpar defender at 3b (-15 UZR/150 for his career) and Shaw an above-average fielder at the position (+4.4 career UZR/150). I know that you are assuming that Shaw will never break out of his August slump (despite his SSS September performance suggesting otherwise) but the two players career numbers clearly suggest the opposite of your supposition: namely that Holt is clearly worse than Shaw.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Just as valid. Are you going to mess up the development of Shaw or Hill by playing them when they struggle?
It's September and we are in a pennant race......there is no developmental factor right now. Moncada not only has struck out in his last 9 PA's but he looked so overmatched in the first 4 that the results of the next 5 aren't very surprising. He doesn't belong anywhere near a major league playing field right now.
 

mauidano

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It's September and we are in a pennant race......there is no developmental factor right now. Moncada not only has struck out in his last 9 PA's but he looked so overmatched in the first 4 that the results of the next 5 aren't very surprising. He doesn't belong anywhere near a major league playing field right now.
He's still gonna get AB's albeit in mop up situations. He will get opportunites to learn those off speed ML pitches that are kicking his ass. Another example of the differences of AAA and MLB pitchers who can exploit a weakness in your approach.
 

SpaceMan37

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The most important thing for Moncada right now is getting to spend time with Butterfield. And Chili Davis.
 

soxhop411

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I assume that unless Moncada tears up the AFL he is going to start the season in AAA next year? (For at least a month or two?)
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Then my bad. That surprises me. I'd have thought they'd give him a breather.
They announced he was going to Arizona before there was even a hint of calling him up for September. Given how September has gone thus far, it probably can qualify as a "breather" of sorts.

And yes, regardless of how he plays in the AFL, he's not starting the season next year on the big league roster. I think the only way he does open the season with the Red Sox is if multiple players from among Shaw, Sandoval, Holt, and Ramirez are hurt AND Moncada tears up the Grapefruit League (e.g. the JBJ in 2013 scenario).
 

Cesar Crespo

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They announced he was going to Arizona before there was even a hint of calling him up for September. Given how September has gone thus far, it probably can qualify as a "breather" of sorts.

And yes, regardless of how he plays in the AFL, he's not starting the season next year on the big league roster. I think the only way he does open the season with the Red Sox is if multiple players from among Shaw, Sandoval, Holt, and Ramirez are hurt AND Moncada tears up the Grapefruit League (e.g. the JBJ in 2013 scenario).
Hurt and/or traded.
 

NDame616

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I think the "Will Moncada make the playoff roster as a pinch runner" discussion was put to bed last night, as Farrell opted to PR Hernandez for Ortiz in the 9th
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think the "Will Moncada make the playoff roster as a pinch runner" discussion was put to bed last night, as Farrell opted to PR Hernandez for Ortiz in the 9th
Wasn't it put to bed last week when he entered the game and didn't know how many outs there were?
 

Koufax

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What became evident last night is that last week's gaffe was not forgiven.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I think it really was put to bed before he was even called up.

They brought him up prematurely hoping to catch lightning in a bottle and get a spark at a position that was a black hole in August. He wasn't the lightning they hoped for because he just isn't ready to be a big league player yet. It was a gamble they lost. Now the best thing they can do is let him sit and observe, and maybe get a few innings in a blowout. Then go to the AFL and get some meaningful playing time at a level where he won't be quite so overmatched.
 

Valek123

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I am 100% in agreement Red, the other benefit is for him to see what it takes to be at the next level. Now it's up to him to make the changes necessary to make the leap. Exposure to Pedey, Papi, and the crew alone in a playoff push could be an incredible opportunity for him. He has miles to go in terms of refinement, but the raw tools are clearly evident. He reminds me of Hanley when he first came up honestly.
 

lexrageorge

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What became evident last night is that last week's gaffe was not forgiven.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by forgiven, or if you meant "not forgotten" instead.

If Farrell is actually punishing Moncada by keeping him on the bench a week after a simple baserunning mistake, then Farrell should be fired today. Chris Young made a far more serious and egregious mistake that potentially cost the Sox an out during the 9th inning rally; Young should be sending Hanley a big thank you note today.

Personally, I think Farrell is just using the guys that he has most confidence in right now, and I can fully understand Farrell having more confidence in Hernandez than Moncada pinch running the tying run in the bottom of the 9th against a team fighting for the playoffs. There's more to pinch running than just speed; Moncada is certainly not used to judging the range of major league infielders or the speed of the outfielders.

If the Sox were 15 games ahead or 15 back, it would have been nice to see Moncada get more playing time. But I'm OK with the current situation; there will likely be plenty of playing time for Moncada in spring training and hopefully AAA at the start of 2017.
 

Byrdbrain

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It was later confirmed by the Red Sox, though he was actually sent to Ft. Myers to get ready for the AFL.
I suppose that could technically be home for him at this point but whatever.
 

Plympton91

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Can we try Bobby Dalbec? The current options are just atrocious.

I guess it has to be Holt and hope he can get on one of his streaks.
 

DJnVa

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1 for 5 with 2 Ks, hitting leadoff and playing 3B, in second game.