The Bill Simmons Thread

Kliq

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The Ringer has not 'taken a deep dive' or gone into depth about a single subject during its run. For the reasons behind that, and the business model, check out the thread on the site in this forum.
I largely agree with you, but Kevin Clark's piece last week on the NFL's age problem was the kind of in depth longform piece that the Grantland was known for.
 

ifmanis5

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I've learned more about football in the first 15 minutes of the Lombardi podcast than I have in the last year of watching football on tv
Agreed, he was and is great. Love that point about the difference of calling plays vs. running an offense.
Lombardi and Voulgaris are the two guys Bill found on his own who are very good. How did Bill find Lombardi anyway? I can't remember.
 

kenneycb

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I largely agree with you, but Kevin Clark's piece last week on the NFL's age problem was the kind of in depth longform piece that the Grantland was known for.
Yeah it seems like more have popped up over the last month or so. That one and the Blackmon one come to mind. Not sure if it's one-off things or if they're going to sprinkle in a couple more of these moving forward.
 

WayBackVazquez

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Worst week of ratings by far this Wednesday. So much for the whole "nobody watches TV in the summer," and "he'll spike when the NFL returns" crowd. I doubt they're going to let this debacle continue for much longer.

 

luckiestman

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Worst week of ratings by far this Wednesday. So much for the whole "nobody watches TV in the summer," and "he'll spike when the NFL returns" crowd. I doubt they're going to let this debacle continue for much longer.


What kind of numbers did "real sports" do in the past?
 

kenneycb

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And has been on the air for 20 years. Not saying AGW is a great show, I think it's average and not a crappy way to spend 30 minutes, but Real Sports isn't a good comparison.
 

cromulence

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Anyone watch last night? I happened to catch a very brief part of the Durant/Nas interview, and it was actually pretty interesting, but probably not in a way Simmons would've liked. He tried to do his normal routine where he makes grand assumptions based mostly on his instincts and his ability to decode players' body language, only this time it was to that player's face, and he got shut right down. He told Durant that - according to him - in the playoffs last year, Durant was playing on a higher level, with more "edge", than he ever had before. Durant was basically like "Uh, no, I've played like that every year for a while now." Simmons tried to push back and Durant seemed pretty annoyed, not really challenging Simmons that much but sort of politely rolling his eyes like "OK, whatever you say."
 

The Social Chair

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Durant is always a tough interview. I thought it was smart to have Nas there. Durant seemed more open than he usually does.
 

Drocca

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Last night's show was excellent. It had everything to do with the three guests, but credit to Simmons for mostly staying out of the way and priming them with some excellent questions.

Vince Staples is an incredibly funny, unique dude. I love listening to his weird ass takes on any subject and the accompanying confidence with each position. His rebuke of deflategate was simple and probably the most accurate you'll ever hear ("yeah, he did that but it's not a big deal). And I was dying laughing at his "I'm not going to make a political statement because I don't want to mess with the money."

Nas and Durant were awesome as well. I always love Durant and he had his usual chip, but with a bit more anger and I thought it suited him well. His point about people not caring about him outside of making buckets, so why should he care what others think is a well-worn point, but he made it in sort of a different, understated way that made it feel genuine.

Nas is a legitimate American icon. He makes rooms better when he's in them and this wasn't any different.
 

Drocca

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And the KD/Celtics stuff was really funny. I thought Bill and Durant had a really good back and forth going.
 

8slim

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Glad you all liked it, but you were a substantial chunk of the overall audience.

To be fair, overnight ratings are increasingly less valuable to gauge the performance of a show like this. HBO claims that they see 10X audience of the the live airing if you extend the timeframe out a week and include digital streaming and VOD. I think HBO is inflating that lift a lot, but the overarching point is valid.
 

WayBackVazquez

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What's "a show like this"? HBO executives who greenlit this monstrosity have every reason to exaggerate unverifiable numbers. But all actual evidence (including fewer than 20k Twitter followers of the show's account, and generally fewer than 10k youtube views) points to the fact that nobody's watching.

The numbers only lie when we're talking about Bill's show, I guess.

 
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WayBackVazquez

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Sure it is. We can't compare it to Real Sports; we can't compare it to First Take. Stupid comparison, stupid comparison. What can we compare this special little snowflake and its 150,000 huge fans to?

It is now literally the lowest rated program on HBO, beating out Simmons-produced After the Thrones. It does lower ratings than all 24 hours of ESPN programming, including the 4am SportsCenter and Highly Questionable (which also has four times as many Twitter followers).

I will give you 3 to 1 this show is dead after its 20 episodes. Name the price.
 

johnmd20

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What's "a show like this"? HBO executives who greenlit this monstrosity have every reason to exaggerate unverifiable numbers. But all actual evidence (including fewer than 20k Twitter followers of the show's account, and generally fewer than 10k youtube views) points to the fact that nobody's watching.

The numbers only lie when we're talking about Bill's show, I guess.

Why are you on a mission to pound the ratings into the ground? Yeah, it's gotten off to a slow start and the show will probably fail unless something significant changes. Your point is made.

That said, Simmons has gotten some pretty awesome guests. It's amazing the show is flopping so bad. I enjoy it but it's not must watch TV like, say, John Oliver. Given the choice to listen to a Simmons podcast with House or watch this show, I would choose the podcast. Simmons doesn't look good/comfortable in front of the camera. It's a problem. And he was good on the NBA shows.
 

WayBackVazquez

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Why are you on a mission to pound the ratings into the ground? Yeah, it's gotten off to a slow start and the show will probably fail unless something significant changes. Your point is made.
Schadenfreude, because I find him awful. I'm not trying to hide it.
 

8slim

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What's "a show like this"? HBO executives who greenlit this monstrosity have every reason to exaggerate unverifiable numbers. But all actual evidence (including fewer than 20k Twitter followers of the show's account, and generally fewer than 10k youtube views) points to the fact that nobody's watching.

The numbers only lie when we're talking about Bill's show, I guess.

It's a show that doesn't need to be viewed "live".

Take it easy.
 

johnmd20

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Schadenfreude, because I find him awful. I'm not trying to hide it.
I don't understand but ok.

Back to the show, Vince Staples was hilarious. He is fast and really funny. This week's episode might have been the best of the show's history. It might be too late but HBO doesn't historically give up that fast. I'm sure producing this show isn't that costly, too.
 

kenneycb

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Sure it is. We can't compare it to Real Sports; we can't compare it to First Take. Stupid comparison, stupid comparison. What can we compare this special little snowflake and its 150,000 huge fans to?

It is now literally the lowest rated program on HBO, beating out Simmons-produced After the Thrones. It does lower ratings than all 24 hours of ESPN programming, including the 4am SportsCenter and Highly Questionable (which also has four times as many Twitter followers).

I will give you 3 to 1 this show is dead after its 20 episodes. Name the price.
Compare it to something like E:60 or whatever, not what is basically the 60 Minutes equivalent of sports or daily programs that nobody DVRs and watches later in the week, though I would probably do that with Highly Questionable since LeBetard and Bomani have amazing chemistry and the show is refreshingly anti-hot take. That has nothing to do with anything outside of saying HQ is awesome.

I don't understand why you hate so many things but, no, I don't care enough about AGW to put any degree of money on it. I'm more pointing out where your being stupid. I'm sure you will revisit this without prompting to say you are right because you are, well, you.
 

8slim

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isn't the new TV metric Live +7, and not overnight ratings anymore?
The advertising currency is "C3", which is commercial ratings within 3 days of air. Broadcasters are pushing for C7 or, really, pushing for decoupling of commercial ratings from content ratings entirely and essentially using C+infinity as currency. That's where the marketplace will get to eventually. And it'll include linear TV plus digital streaming.

HBO is an outlier since they don't sell ads. They don't play in the C3 currency, so how they evaluate content performance is really up to them.
 

Bleedred

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He is transcendently awful in front of a camera. And not that interesting otherwise..
This is where I am with Simmons. I found him back in the digital city days when he was ripping CHB, Callahan, et. al., as entitled hacks. I enjoyed his writing immensely for a time. I am incredibly impressed with how he has developed his career and become a smashing success. He deserves all the credit in the world for it.

However, AGW is a terrible show because Bill Simmons is a terrible interviewer. As noted, he has had some pretty fantastic guests, who on their own provide a lot of entertainment. But Bill sucks on camera, at least so far. Worse, it's clear that he has a very hard time veering from his "scripted" questions and rarely riffs with these guys. Think about how great David Letterman was dealing with interviewees both easy (Tom Hanks, Marv Albert) and hard (Crispin Glover, Madonna). I know it's not fair to compare Simmons to Letterman, but it best illustrates what Simmons lacks.

Edit: clarity
 

Revkeith

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Guest-dependent is the best way to describe Simmons' podcasts now. The Cousin Sal segments are pretty funny, and even though Bill is a "basketball guy", for some reason he's way more entertaining when he's just being simple about his analysis. When he's talking NBA, seems like he's trying to be more detailed, and it doesn't work.

For comparison, I've started to listen to the Tony Kornheiser podcast, and even though he focuses on Washington DC subjects for half of it, I find him more entertaining than Simmons.
 

Auger34

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I used to be a HUGE Simmons fan. The Book of Basketball was a great book and I still enjoy his NBA opinions..however, does anyone still really enjoy him or call themselves a huge fan of his? I still listen to his podcasts out of habit but I find myself more annoyed with how awful of an interviewer he is and just how hellbent he is on never being wrong about anything. (Good example of this is the most recent podcast with Cousin Sal. Bill clearly says that the Panthers now stink at running the ball and how last week it was 2 yards a pop every time and he's really worried about it. Sal stops him and goes, "Wait, Whittaker ran 16 times for 100 yards how is that 2 yards a pop?" Bill then stammers and goes "Uhhh...I mean next week")
Basically, I have a lot of fondness for the old Simmons and listen because of that. I don't know how anyone could like the current version
 

ifmanis5

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Not only are the ratings bad but the show isn't generating any kind of buzz or water cooler moments. Other than the Affleck rant I don't see anyone online or otherwise generating the kind of momentum that Oliver got out of the gate or that Sam Bee and a few others get. HBO can probably stomach bad ratings for a year or two but I'm sure they were counting on the kind of online support and attention that they are not getting right now.
 

gtg807y

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Bill had a great idea when he put Joe House and Geoff Shackelford together for golf podcast. His idea to actually go on that podcast and give his golf takes was not so great.

To elaborate: his takes through 5 minutes - a semiserious rant that Tiger should be on the team, Davis Love is a bad captain because Bill finds him boring, Jordan Spieth is as just a dicey a choice as Tiger would have been because this Masters may have broke him (though Spieth got on via points).
 

johnmd20

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Bill had a great idea when he put Joe House and Geoff Shackelford together for golf podcast. His idea to actually go on that podcast and give his golf takes was not so great.

To elaborate: his takes through 5 minutes - a semiserious rant that Tiger should be on the team, Davis Love is a bad captain because Bill finds him boring, Jordan Spieth is as just a dicey a choice as Tiger would have been because this Masters may have broke him (though Spieth got on via points).
He ultimately reached the point where he said he wasn't even remotely serious about Tiger but I am with you, Simmons didn't make that podcast better in any way. He added nothing, which means he was worth less than nothing b/c it was a waste of time.

That said, his Cousin Sal podcasts are always so funny and so enjoyable to listen to.

Those Any Given Wednesday ratings are abysmal. I actually think Burfict Strangers, only playing at Marathon Oil gas stations, gets better ratings.
 

WayBackVazquez

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I watched the YouTube mailbag segment because I couldn't believe he was really doing a mailbag segment. He answered letters that may literally be leftovers from his column ten years ago. He actually discussed Teen Wolf. And there seems to be a small studio audience now? Or at least they've added a live mic to record the giggles of the camera crew and assorted sycophants. Didn't he make kind of a big deal that he wouldn't be doing this?

The most interesting part of this show will be his post-mortem to see who he blames for its failure.
 

Number45forever

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He needs to stay out of the ShackHouse pod. Joe and Shackleford are great together, especially as they've become more familiar. Bill doesn't understand golf at all and virtually everything he says is refutable with common sense, logic or some fact he's oblivious to.
 

gtg807y

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He ultimately reached the point where he said he wasn't even remotely serious about Tiger but I am with you, Simmons didn't make that podcast better in any way. He added nothing, which means he was worth less than nothing b/c it was a waste of time.
Which is exactly why it was doubly annoying, since it took time away from two other massive golf topics, Arnie's passing and the Ryder Cup. Instead we get 20 minutes of Bill's "This is not specifically catered to me, here's how to fix that" take, Golf Version.

I think it was last week's Friday Rollin with House where he said he'd be coming on to talk Ryder Cup, and you knew EXACTLY what he'd be bringing to the table.
 

Bergs

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However, AGW is a terrible show because Bill Simmons is a terrible interviewer. As noted, he has had some pretty fantastic guests, who on their own provide a lot of entertainment. But Bill sucks on camera, at least so far. Worse, it's clear that he has a very hard time veering from his "scripted" questions and rarely riffs with these guys. Think about how great David Letterman was dealing with interviewees both easy (Tom Hanks, Marv Albert) and hard (Crispin Glover, Madonna). I know it's not fair to compare Simmons to Letterman, but it best illustrates what Simmons lacks.
I agree, but I think it's a skill that can be learned, at least to some extent. Jon Stewart was pretty bad on his 1st 2 shows, and there's not too many people who wouldn't call him a great interviewer at this point. Then again, Bill isn't Jon Stewart. Who knows?
 

nattysez

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BSG was VERY insistent with Sal this week that no one outside of LA cares that Vin Scully is retiring. Now, this is absolutely false in SF, where Scully was on the front page of the sports section today and has been discussed fairly often on sports talk radio. And it certainly feels like his retirement is getting notice from baseball lovers throughout the country. Is Simmons at all right about Scully's retirement being of interest only in LA? I suspect not, which means he is remarkably out of touch, but wanted to be sure.
 

WayBackVazquez

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I agree, but I think it's a skill that can be learned, at least to some extent. Jon Stewart was pretty bad on his 1st 2 shows, and there's not too many people who wouldn't call him a great interviewer at this point. Then again, Bill isn't Jon Stewart. Who knows?
What two shows were those? His MTV show was great. He was also 31 when he started as a talk show host, and a longtime performer. Simmons is an awkward 47 year-old man.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I agree, but I think it's a skill that can be learned, at least to some extent. Jon Stewart was pretty bad on his 1st 2 shows, and there's not too many people who wouldn't call him a great interviewer at this point. Then again, Bill isn't Jon Stewart. Who knows?
Jon Stewart was a comedian who spent hours and hours and hours mastering the ability to speak in front of audience and keep them interested. Bill Simmons is a writer who really, really likes "The Larry Sanders Show". Not many people can host a talk show, so the deck was stacked against Simmons from the beginning. But trying to say that Jon Stewart sucked and he got good and apply to Simmons is like comparing Teen Wolf with Teen Wolf 2.

BTW, Jon Stewart was not "pretty bad" on his first two shows. I assume you're talking about the Jon Stewart Show on MTV. Such a hit that it was moved from MTV to syndication after like six months (which is unheard of). Unfortunately it never found an audience and it's widely accepted that it had nothing to do with Stewart's talent (or lack thereof). In the mid to late 90s, Stewart was presumed to be the heir to just about every late night talk show under the sun.
 

joe dokes

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BSG was VERY insistent with Sal this week that no one outside of LA cares that Vin Scully is retiring. Now, this is absolutely false in SF, where Scully was on the front page of the sports section today and has been discussed fairly often on sports talk radio. And it certainly feels like his retirement is getting notice from baseball lovers throughout the country. Is Simmons at all right about Scully's retirement being of interest only in LA? I suspect not, which means he is remarkably out of touch, but wanted to be sure.
Simmons lives in LA so how the hell would he know. It is a big deal to baseball fans everywhere, and likely beyond that. More so to older fans, to be sure, because that's baseball's dominant demographic. Scully started in Connie Mack's last season. Mack was born during the civil war, 1st managed in 1894(!!) and played in 1886 . I can understand a 30-year old steakhead not thinking anything of that, but an intelligent sports fan (or even an intelligent non-sports fan) or one, like Simmons, who pretends to be, would and should understand the significance of that.

He 's pushing 50, and he seems to pride himself in not learning anything new ever except maybe what team Derrick Rose is playing for. I've always believed that intellectual curiosity -- wanting to learn new stuff -- is at least as much of a sign of intelligence as the actual ability to learn it. Sometimes I think Simmons is barely more intelligent than Schilling. The difference is that he was raised wealthier and went to a real college, so he's better at faking it.
 

Kliq

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BSG was VERY insistent with Sal this week that no one outside of LA cares that Vin Scully is retiring. Now, this is absolutely false in SF, where Scully was on the front page of the sports section today and has been discussed fairly often on sports talk radio. And it certainly feels like his retirement is getting notice from baseball lovers throughout the country. Is Simmons at all right about Scully's retirement being of interest only in LA? I suspect not, which means he is remarkably out of touch, but wanted to be sure.
This is a ridiculous post. He wasn't VERY insistent on it not being a big deal, he was just asking if it was relevant outside of LA, which it is. It was a harmless question.
 

joe dokes

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This is a ridiculous post. He wasn't VERY insistent on it not being a big deal, he was just asking if it was relevant outside of LA, which it is. It was a harmless question.
I still think Simmons is a dolt.