2016 Ryder Cup - Hazeltine National GC

E5 Yaz

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18: Paris; 20: Whistling Straits; 22: Rome; 24: Bethpage

President's Cup is in Jersey City in 17
 

TFP

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On 7 now the USA is an 8-some playing alternate shot.

DJ - Kuchar
Spieth - Reed
Holmes - Moore
Sneds - ZJ
 

cshea

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I would tend to agree, but there could be golf ball issues and other unknowns. Also, there are 3 par 5's that are 600+ yards that will be 3-shit holes for pretty much every team anyways. Having a good wedge guy and a good putter could help take advantage of those holes.
 

luckysox

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Sneds and DJ are going to be that sneaky good, underrated team if they are actually out Friday morning. They know how to not hit it 340 yards and still be champions, ZJ is as steady as a golfer gets, Sneds brings a little emotion, and both of them can play with a chip the size of Iowa on their shoulders. I'd put them up against any of the Euro teams.
 

kenneycb

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A Midwestern crowd is going to be a boisterous one for sure. The only crowd that could top it is if it was ever at Bethpage or Shinnecock.
From my dad's recollection, the Boston crowd in 1999 wasn't exactly sewing their mouths shut. I'd think a Midwest crowd, especially in Minnesota, home to the Minnesota Nice, would be a bit tamer.
 

luckysox

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HoLeeCrap did Phil piss off Hal Sutton with the crap about 2004 and the Tiger/Phil pairing: http://www.golfdigest.com/story/hal-sutton-on-phil-mickelsons-ryder-cup-broadside-he-let-his-whole-team-down

Wow. That's a pretty heavy hammer for a past captain to drop 2 days out. Now, Phil's an a-hole, but I am surprised to see a past captain react like that now. I'm surprised he didn't let it go until after the week is thorough. Seems like he just couldn't. We'll see how all of this shakes out for Phil. I thought maybe he was trying to draw attention to himself to let the Spieths and the Dj's off the hook...but this is a bit much.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Frankly I don't see anything wrong with what Phil said. Or with his criticisms of Watson two years ago, but that's another issue. (And no I'm not a Phil fanboy, though I do like him).

As to the issues with Sutton I don't see what difference the logo on the ball makes - high spin vs low spin is the issue - and Phil had been working with Callaway equipment for a month (at least, I highly doubt he wasn't working out with the clubs before he officially switched) so it's not like he bought a new set in the clubhouse before the opening round. And why the hell does Phil need to inform him of what clubs he's playing? Has he checked in with DL3 with what putter he's using this weekend so he can plan accordingly?

At that point in history, I don't know why you'd ever pair them together to begin with. It was the height of their antagonism towards each other and putting the two best (or two of the best) players you have on the same card seems a poor use of resources.

Hal, you got your ass kicked on your home turf and made a couple bad choices. Enjoy the fact your name got in the paper again and stfu.
 

WayBackVazquez

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Colin Montgomerie is like a totally different person as a broadcaster. Funny, self-effacing, insightful and articulate...really a likable presence, and totally at odds with his persona as a player.

Maybe he's just mellowed with age. He was a great story at the Open this year too, I just remembered.
 

luckysox

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Frankly I don't see anything wrong with what Phil said. Or with his criticisms of Watson two years ago, but that's another issue. (And no I'm not a Phil fanboy, though I do like him).

As to the issues with Sutton I don't see what difference the logo on the ball makes - high spin vs low spin is the issue - and Phil had been working with Callaway equipment for a month (at least, I highly doubt he wasn't working out with the clubs before he officially switched) so it's not like he bought a new set in the clubhouse before the opening round. And why the hell does Phil need to inform him of what clubs he's playing? Has he checked in with DL3 with what putter he's using this weekend so he can plan accordingly?

At that point in history, I don't know why you'd ever pair them together to begin with. It was the height of their antagonism towards each other and putting the two best (or two of the best) players you have on the same card seems a poor use of resources.

Hal, you got your ass kicked on your home turf and made a couple bad choices. Enjoy the fact your name got in the paper again and stfu.
Hal definitely looks like a miserable crank after that interview, but Phil also allowed it to seem as if he is not taking responsibility for his losses. I understand his point of view - it takes good strategy AND good play. But not sure this was the time for him to make this specific point about a specific captain who is THERE. Awkward, and fodder for the press. Again, though, maybe that's part of his plan. No one is asking about the pressure eon the rest of the team right now. Everyone is saying it's all on Phil, and maybe that is exactly how he wants it. he knows the pressure and believes he can take it and let the rest of the team play loose.

I don't dislike Phil or like him - I'm sort of agnostic on Phil. He's got an ego the size of the planet, but so do half these guys, and he can back up the ego with his play, and has for a long time. He's also funny and the other guys love him at these events. I hope he can go out and play well and throw 3 or so points up. I hope they win so he can have his moment and they can build on this year. because if he doesn't and they don't, it's going to be hard to watch. He's going to get eviscerated.
 

johnmd20

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Hal definitely looks like a miserable crank after that interview, but Phil also allowed it to seem as if he is not taking responsibility for his losses. I understand his point of view - it takes good strategy AND good play. But not sure this was the time for him to make this specific point about a specific captain who is THERE. Awkward, and fodder for the press. Again, though, maybe that's part of his plan. No one is asking about the pressure eon the rest of the team right now. Everyone is saying it's all on Phil, and maybe that is exactly how he wants it. he knows the pressure and believes he can take it and let the rest of the team play loose.

I don't dislike Phil or like him - I'm sort of agnostic on Phil. He's got an ego the size of the planet, but so do half these guys, and he can back up the ego with his play, and has for a long time. He's also funny and the other guys love him at these events. I hope he can go out and play well and throw 3 or so points up. I hope they win so he can have his moment and they can build on this year. because if he doesn't and they don't, it's going to be hard to watch. He's going to get eviscerated.
And there is a chance this is Phil's last Ryder Cup. He's going to be 48 in 2018 and there aren't too many Ryder Cup players even above the age of 40. So Phil is bringing it and going out in either a blaze of glory or embarrassment. If that pressure is what it takes for Phil to play his best, I'm all for it.

Nothing bothers me more than remembering him clapping after Justin Rose drained a 60 (?) foot putt on a Sunday where the Americans thought the 2012 Ryder Cup was locked up in their favor. You don't applaud an opponent's amazing play. The Warriors didn't applaud Lebron when he made the block. The Yankees didn't applaud Dave Roberts stealing a base.
 

Zomp

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Bah. Its golf. The competition is supposed to be friendly and gentlemanly. There are a lot of things that bother me about Figjam. Applauding one of the best pressure putts in history isn't one of them.
 

cshea

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Yeah, I didn't have a problem with that either. That's the culture of golf. You acknowledge good shots, even those made by your opponent. There was nothing to be done there other than tip your hat to Rose for making an impossible putt.

FWIW, Mickelson apparently appologized today for the Hal Sutton comments. I didn't really have a problem with those comments either, he was asked a question, answered truthfully using an example to illustrate his point.
 

johnmd20

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Bah. Its golf. The competition is supposed to be friendly and gentlemanly. There are a lot of things that bother me about Figjam. Applauding one of the best pressure putts in history isn't one of them.
Garbage. Rose wouldn't have been applauding Mickelson if he did the same thing. That's one of the problems with the US team in the Ryder Cup. They play it like an exhibition and the results follow.

When Novak Djokivic(sic) smashes an ace, does Federer applaud? When David Ortiz hits a home run off Bentences, does Bentences applaud? I don't see how a golf match is any different than those.
 

luckysox

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Talk on TGC this morning was that Phil spoke to Sutton personally and apologized to him, saying he did not intend for the comments to come off as they did. They were talking about Sutton taking his ball and going home from the rest of the weekend, which means the story wouldn't go away. We got Phil with a large mouth and small filter (or no common sense - he was rightish, but the timing is questionable) and Sutton with the thinnest skin in the history of 12 years ago former captains. Anyway, well done taking the spotlight glare away from the Willet boys.
 

TFP

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Europe just went off the first tee. First 8 are doing alternate shot then the last 4 playing best ball.

Rose - Stenson
McIlroy - Sullivan

Westwood - Garcia
Kaymer - Willett

Fitzpatrick
Pieters
Wood
Cabrera Bello
 

Average Reds

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Frankly I don't see anything wrong with what Phil said. Or with his criticisms of Watson two years ago, but that's another issue. (And no I'm not a Phil fanboy, though I do like him).

As to the issues with Sutton I don't see what difference the logo on the ball makes - high spin vs low spin is the issue - and Phil had been working with Callaway equipment for a month (at least, I highly doubt he wasn't working out with the clubs before he officially switched) so it's not like he bought a new set in the clubhouse before the opening round. And why the hell does Phil need to inform him of what clubs he's playing? Has he checked in with DL3 with what putter he's using this weekend so he can plan accordingly?

At that point in history, I don't know why you'd ever pair them together to begin with. It was the height of their antagonism towards each other and putting the two best (or two of the best) players you have on the same card seems a poor use of resources.

Hal, you got your ass kicked on your home turf and made a couple bad choices. Enjoy the fact your name got in the paper again and stfu.
If this is what it takes days for him to get up for the competition, that's fine. But let's not pretend that Phil doesn't have an established track record of outsmarting himself on the big stage. (Taking the 3-wood out of the bag before the 2006 US Open arguably cost him the tournament.) And I can't really take his comments seriously about not being able to adjust to Tiger's ball. With his talent he should be able to adjust to any ball you give him within five swings.

The point is that if I'm looking for a strategic genius to help shape the US team, I'm not looking at Mickelson. And his comments need to be understood as a classic case of Phil looking out for Phil.

I will admit that there is always a benefit to making Hal Sutton look like a buffoon, so he's got that going for him.
 

Sliceboy

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The Ryder Cup golf today is some 'Captains Challenge' (?), the real matches start tomorrow. Wonder if the Captains Challenge pairings are a ruse to throw off the other team or real pairings for tomorrow? As for the Boston crowd in '99 I was lucky enough to be there and Colin M. turned around to the crowd on the tee box, waived his club at us, and said 'If any of you wankers say a word on this shot I'll get you all kicked out'. Colin promptly hit it in the woods; the crowd went nuts.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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If this is what it takes days for him to get up for the competition, that's fine. But let's not pretend that Phil doesn't have an established track record of outsmarting himself on the big stage. (Taking the 3-wood out of the bag before the 2006 US Open arguably cost him the tournament.) And I can't really take his comments seriously about not being able to adjust to Tiger's ball. With his talent he should be able to adjust to any ball you give him within five swings.

The point is that if I'm looking for a strategic genius to help shape the US team, I'm not looking at Mickelson. And his comments need to be understood as a classic case of Phil looking out for Phil.

I will admit that there is always a benefit to making Hal Sutton look like a buffoon, so he's got that going for him.
He didn't say he couldn't adjust to the ball, he said that by not having lead time more than 2 days, he had to use his prep time doing that instead of prepping for the course and his normal routine. For someone who relies so much on his short game and his creativity, I can absolutely see the spin rate being a factor he would have to make adjustments to. And if that took away from his normal prep and playing the course then yes, I think Sutton deserves criticism when he could have told them long before that they would be playing together. It certainly doesn't absolve Phil and it certainly comes off as making excuses, but I get the point he was making.

I don't even necessarily think it was calculated, to get himself or the team up for the tournament, I think he was asked a question and answered it honestly. Whether his opinion is correct or not is up for debate, but if his lack of a filter (like this and like with Watson) lead to a change in the way the team is handled, then I'm all for it.
 

TFP

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The Ryder Cup golf today is some 'Captains Challenge' (?), the real matches start tomorrow. Wonder if the Captains Challenge pairings are a ruse to throw off the other team or real pairings for tomorrow? As for the Boston crowd in '99 I was lucky enough to be there and Colin M. turned around to the crowd on the tee box, waived his club at us, and said 'If any of you wankers say a word on this shot I'll get you all kicked out'. Colin promptly hit it in the woods; the crowd went nuts.
Very cool moment just happened on the 8th green.

A loud obnoxious guy in the stands is chanting and then heckles the shit out of Stenson with "silver medal is first loser". Everyone laughs at it because it was well timed, including the european players. Meanwhile Rory and Wood have this downhill breaking 8 foot putt that they can't hit and try like 6 times and nothing, crowd starts giving them a hard time. After they're all done the hole Stenson invites the heckler out of the crowd to try the putt. Crowd goes nuts, rose lays down a $100 next to him on the green. He steps up and fucking DRAINS the putt dead center and the place goes fucking berserk. USA chants break out, guy goes crazy, the European team loved it too. It was a truly awesome moment.
 

TFP

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I have video of it from the crowd once I can upload it to YouTube I will.
 

johnmd20

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That is awesome, gotta be one of the highlights of that guy's life.

Anyway, back to the action. I just listened to the ShackHouse Ryder Cup preview and I've never been more confident about the US' chances. Shack and House both couldn't envision any way the US could win and they were both chomping at the bit to bet Europe.

I'm convinced, the US is going to win. Their team is stacked like it's never been stacked before. They are home. And they are being written off by the geniuses. Raise the Cup fellas.
 

cshea

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FWIW


I'd probably lead off with Spieth/Reed. If they get a lead that should juice the place up. Reed can't do the shhhh thing playing at home, but I'm sure he's got something up his sleeves. ZJ/Sneds I'd put in the middle.

I've been humming the Ryder Cup theme song all day. Let's get this thing going.
 

RedOctober3829

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From my dad's recollection, the Boston crowd in 1999 wasn't exactly sewing their mouths shut. I'd think a Midwest crowd, especially in Minnesota, home to the Minnesota Nice, would be a bit tamer.
The Boston crowd was good but nothing compares to a NY-area golf crowd in rowdiness. I said that about the Midwestern crowd because I'd think there's a lot of nationalism in the Midwest.
 

kenneycb

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The Boston crowd was good but nothing compares to a NY-area golf crowd in rowdiness. I said that about the Midwestern crowd because I'd think there's a lot of nationalism in the Midwest.
Meh, it's not exactly the South. Medinah was probably rowdier than Hazeltine will be. I don't think nationalism is overly crazier in the Northeast compared to the Midwest.
 

TFP

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That matchup on the first tee is going to be electric. I can't wait.
 

Byrdbrain

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Rose/Stenson vs. Spieth/Reed
McIlroy/Sullivan vs. Mickelson/Fowler
Garcia/Kaymer vs. Walker/ZJ
Peters/Westwood vs. DJ/Kuchar
Chamblee, who as has been discussed is a massive db but who knows golf stats, was bagging on the Walker/ZJ pairing. They are ranked 11th and 12th in ball striking and foursomes is all about ball striking. A big deal has been made about DLIII using analytics heavily so I wonder what the reasoning is for that move.
 

WayBackVazquez

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Chamblee, who as has been discussed is a massive db but who knows golf stats, was bagging on the Walker/ZJ pairing. They are ranked 11th and 12th in ball striking and foursomes is all about ball striking. A big deal has been made about DLIII using analytics heavily so I wonder what the reasoning is for that move.
Brandel being Brandel. I don't know why foursomes is "all about ball striking." Seems to me that putts count too, and both Walker and ZJ were top 50 on tour in strokes gained putting. And Zach I think was top 50 in GIR and driving accuracy, too. I think chemistry is more important than any small differences in a particular category (the differences between say Spieth, Mickelson, Walker and Johnson in ball striking are insignificant).
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Chamblee, who as has been discussed is a massive db but who knows golf stats, was bagging on the Walker/ZJ pairing. They are ranked 11th and 12th in ball striking and foursomes is all about ball striking. A big deal has been made about DLIII using analytics heavily so I wonder what the reasoning is for that move.
Why is foursomes "all about ball striking"? Or at least in any way more so than any other format or situation? I'm not seeing his/your point, but I could be missing something. It's been a long week.
 

WayBackVazquez

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Why is foursomes "all about ball striking"? Or at least in any way more so than any other format or situation? I'm not seeing his/your point, but I could be missing something. It's been a long week.
It sounds like a typical little bit of knowledge being a dangerous thing situation. In Chamblee's all-knowing mind, fourball is all about ball striking. Armed with that unshakable truth, it's easy for him to use stats to criticize DL3. Of course, there's no reason to assume the truth of the premise other than Chamblee's ipse dixit. It may be that Davis has decades of statistics that show no meaningful correlation between ball-striking stats and fourball victories. It's even possible that he has other data showing a significant correlation between fourball success and some other stat, say strokes gained putting. Or maybe he doesn't. But we can safely assume that if Brandel had numbers showing that the team with the better average ball-striking stats wins at a high rate, he would've let us know about them.