Arsenal 2016-17: Get Ready For A Xhak-attack

Conigliaro's Potential

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mikeford said:
I would be interested to know exactly WHO Perez scored his goals last season against. If it's only bottom of the table teams like Deportivo, to me that isn't a tremendous indicator that he'll be any good in England, where even the crappiest of teams tend to be decent. Except last year's Villa side, woof.
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I'm pretty sure this was covered in the articles to which I linked - certainly his (Vardy-esque) eight-game scoring streak included goals against Sevilla, Barcelona and Atletico. And in none of those eight games did Deportivo lose, so those weren't garbage-time goals.
 
Time to Mo Vaughn

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Wenger clearly seems to think there's some sort of market inefficiency in waiting until almost the exact end of the transfer window for purchases.
mikeford said:
I think it's more important to talk about the greater depth of the EPL when we're talking about guys from the teams that aren't good in La Liga.

I would be interested to know exactly WHO Perez scored his goals last season against. If it's only bottom of the table teams like Deportivo, to me that isn't a tremendous indicator that he'll be any good in England, where even the crappiest of teams tend to be decent. Except last year's Villa side, woof.
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Well, if you're literate, you'd already know that he scored 3 goals in 7 games against the La Liga top 4, which in a tiny sample size is right about at his season pace against the entire league.
 
miracleofmidre

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Sorry, don't mean to be too literal here, apologies if it comes off that way, but I don't think touting an international defender for Germany is overhyping him. Maybe the Perez/Vardy comparison is premature (though the comparisons I have read are about their trajectories more than anything), but to make this generalized claim about Arsenal fans going overboard seems, well overboard. I am excited by the suite of moves made this offseason, for sure, but I am not hyperbolic about what it means yet, we have to see how all the players adapt and fit in.

It's worth waiting to see how they do over a longer haul before making a reasonable judgment. A little patience on all our parts is wise. That's a heavy lift for us sports fans, typically!
 
lars10

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... He said a possibly slightly better than Vardy.. And probably included in that idea that he's younger and cheaper..but also I think he may have said maybe and slightly to couch what he said. Vardy had a great year last year but he's not exactly Ibra or someone who has put up those seasons season after season... Why all the nitpicking?
 
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lars10

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I think the possible signings are both great upgrades to who they're replacing. That with the other players coming back should really improve the squad.. That and not playing one of the top teams in the league.
 
Infield Infidel

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Yeah, for Vardy and Lucas neither is young and neither was stellar before last season. A non-zero chance they are one-year wonders. Chances are going forward their future is probably between last year's breakout and their previous performance, which is admittedly a wide range.
 
lars10

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Infield Infidel said:
Yeah, for Vardy and Lucas neither is young and neither was stellar before last season. A non-zero chance they are one-year wonders. Chances are going forward their future is probably between last year's breakout and their previous performance, which is admittedly a wide range.
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True. I would also like another striker.. But Vardy shouldn't be the gold standard... If anything he seemed exposed this summer.. Not really effective at the international level and I wonder what he'll do this EPL season... Last year he seemed to finish everything or get a pk... That type of season doesn't seem duplicate-able
 
Conigliaro's Potential

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I wanted Arsenal to buy Vardy back in June. But given the choice between buying Vardy or Lucas, given what I've read about Lucas, I definitely prefer Lucas. It's possible that either or both players may prove to have been one-season wonders, but the hype over Vardy and the scrutiny he'll inevitably face from the media in England would seem to make it more likely that he'll crater. Lucas was purchased by Arsenal, which automatically makes him a target, but very few people know who he is, and the spotlight won't shine on him as brightly - he'll get compared to Giroud, which is different than following up on a season where you were the Football Writers Association Player of the Year in the Premiership.

Does that mean Lucas is a slightly better player than Vardy at the moment? No. I apologize. Do I think Lucas will have a better season than Vardy this year, all things being equal (barring injuries, etc.)? Yes, I do.
 
mikeford

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Good win yesterday. Passing looked much more crisp, at least in the first half.

Play dropped off dramatically in the 2nd. Fortunately Watford aren't very good.

Now we get international snooze fest.
 
smokin joe wood

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Xhaka looked fantastic. He obviously had some excellent deep balls but his pace passing and the pace on his balls up the wings caused problems all day. Hopefully both he and Elneny can keep Coquelin on the bench.

Does Ramsey start w/ Sanchez and Giroud when everyone is healthy?
 
JimBoSox9

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Between Ramsey, Wilshire, Perez, Giroud, Iwobi, Elneny, Cazorla, Walcott, and Ox, there are three available spots for a given matchday. This presumes any clear "A" squad includes Ozil, Alexis, and Xhaka.

That's sort of an insane amount of permutations. For the first time in awhile, there's a strong possibility that the best base lineup holds more of a 4-4-2 shape than 4-2-3-1, with Perez playing up top underneath Giroud. It's been observed that such balance has been beneficial for both strikers in the past, and the argument is that Perez is enough of a creator at the top of the box, that you don't lose much shifting Ozil into slightly more of a B2B role with only Xhaka behind him in central midfield.

Personally, I'd rather bench Giroud, play Perez as a pure striker ahead of Ozil/Alexis, and see what happens given extended time to build chemistry. In this path Cazorla, Elneny, and Ramsey are your clear B2B possible best options, and Ox, Iwobi, or Ramsey could all be the starting winger opposite Alexis. If everyone's on form, Ramsey and Cazorla's flexibility may make them more valuable as first-team substitutes.

A lot of Ramsey's role seems to depend on what Perez and Elneny show the boss. Wilshire and Walcott are 3rd-stringers whereever they look at this point. But given the narrowness of the competition, I'd expect it to be very hard to see a definitive first-team lineup or formation at all this season. It may be particularly matchup-specific this year, in addition to the usual fitness/form variables.
 
Infield Infidel

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Xhaka had this one jawdropping lifted pass into the left channel. I don't think it led to anything but it could have landed on a dime. He seems to have a real all-around game.

Edit: the pass is at 5:27 in the video below
 
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Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Xhaka had a really great display against Watford, very assured and his passing range is just ridiculous. Having a DM who can hit the balls at 2:20 and 3:35 is a big weapon in the contemporary game, offering the ability to create chances out of nothing and giving opponents a lot of pause when deciding to play a high line.


As far as the team goes, I think if Perez acclimates decently well then we'll see him playing CF but frequently drifting around and switching positions with Sanchez, essentially the role that Walcott has been playing.You get the best out of both Sanchez and Ozil with a mobile CF.

That mainly leaves the other wing, where Wenger likes to have more of a wide playmaker to offset Sanchez, and the CM next to Xhaka, which brings us face-to-face with Wenger's stubbornness and loyalty to his pet projects. IMO, the best options for the wing are Iwobi and, if he stays with us, quite possibly Gnabry (Wilshere also in the mix if he can stay fit for a reasonable amount of time). But I expect to see a maddening amount of Ox in that role. CM is even scarier. We could have a great rotation playing Santi next to Xhaka in games we look to dominate and Elneny next to Xhaka in tougher games and big away matches. But you just know that Ramsey is going to keep getting chances there.

I think Koscielny/Mustafi will be our best CB pairing in years and quite possibly the best in the Premier League once the latter settles and they develop some chemistry. I also am a pretty huge Holding fanboy at this point and really like him as a developmental project and the 3rd or 4th CB.

All in all, I'm pretty happy with the summer business. Its just too bad that we're five points behind our main rivals in substantial part because the team wasn't prepared to start the season.
 
Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Chambers is going on loan to Boro. Karanka is a pretty highly regarded young manager, so that could be a good situation if he is given consistent playing time (no clue about that). In the end, I'm not sure Chambers really has a future with us anyway. His athletic limitations are pretty significant, he is prone to one or two brain farts per game, and its not clear where he fits in with both Mustafi and Holding both very young and clearly ahead of him in the pecking order.

This most likely means Debuchy will stay as RB cover.
 
lars10

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Xhaka had a really great display against Watford, very assured and his passing range is just ridiculous. Having a DM who can hit the balls at 2:20 and 3:35 is a big weapon in the contemporary game, offering the ability to create chances out of nothing and giving opponents a lot of pause when deciding to play a high line.


As far as the team goes, I think if Perez acclimates decently well then we'll see him playing CF but frequently drifting around and switching positions with Sanchez, essentially the role that Walcott has been playing.You get the best out of both Sanchez and Ozil with a mobile CF.

That mainly leaves the other wing, where Wenger likes to have more of a wide playmaker to offset Sanchez, and the CM next to Xhaka, which brings us face-to-face with Wenger's stubbornness and loyalty to his pet projects. IMO, the best options for the wing are Iwobi and, if he stays with us, quite possibly Gnabry (Wilshere also in the mix if he can stay fit for a reasonable amount of time). But I expect to see a maddening amount of Ox in that role. CM is even scarier. We could have a great rotation playing Santi next to Xhaka in games we look to dominate and Elneny next to Xhaka in tougher games and big away matches. But you just know that Ramsey is going to keep getting chances there.

I think Koscielny/Mustafi will be our best CB pairing in years and quite possibly the best in the Premier League once the latter settles and they develop some chemistry. I also am a pretty huge Holding fanboy at this point and really like him as a developmental project and the 3rd or 4th CB.

All in all, I'm pretty happy with the summer business. Its just too bad that we're five points behind our main rivals in substantial part because the team wasn't prepared to start the season.
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What other top team has played two other top teams?

Man City, Man U, Chelsea have all played a fairly easy schedule to this point. Arsenal has only one gimme.

Chelsea - West Ham, Wattford, Burnley
City - Stoke, Sunderland, West Ham
Man U - Bournemouth, Leicester, Hull

Would have been nice though to have the full team ready for the opening game though. But wasn't Wenger's plan always to hold back certain players because of international duty for the first few games?

Arsenal do have the potential though to play with anyone now..and they're deeper than they've been in years...knock wood.
 
Mighty Joe Young

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lars10 said:
What other top team has played two other top teams?

Man City, Man U, Chelsea have all played a fairly easy schedule to this point. Arsenal has only one gimme.

Chelsea - West Ham, Wattford, Burnley
City - Stoke, Sunderland, West Ham
Man U - Bournemouth, Leicester, Hull

Would have been nice though to have the full team ready for the opening game though. But wasn't Wenger's plan always to hold back certain players because of international duty for the first few games?

Arsenal do have the potential though to play with anyone now..and they're deeper than they've been in years...knock wood.
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I respectfully submit that Liverpool's first three games featured two top teams (Arsenal and Spurs) , on the road no less.
 
Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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lars10 said:
What other top team has played two other top teams?

Man City, Man U, Chelsea have all played a fairly easy schedule to this point. Arsenal has only one gimme.

Chelsea - West Ham, Wattford, Burnley
City - Stoke, Sunderland, West Ham
Man U - Bournemouth, Leicester, Hull

Would have been nice though to have the full team ready for the opening game though. But wasn't Wenger's plan always to hold back certain players because of international duty for the first few games?

Arsenal do have the potential though to play with anyone now..and they're deeper than they've been in years...knock wood.
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I agree and its actually worse, as United played Southampton, not Leicester, in their second match.

We're technically five points back but in some kind of schedule-adjusted standings we're probably only 2-3 points behind.
 
Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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The big rumor going around is that Wilshere will go out on loan. Honestly, I'm supportive of that idea as long as a good fit can be found. Wenger doesn't see him as a CM and I don't think he is going to get that much time on the wing given our other options and his rust. I'd love to see what he could do with a run of 30-35 games in La Liga for a club like Valencia or Sevilla.

I also like this move because it may suggest that (a) Wenger is admitting that Ramsey shouldn't play CM and therefore is in the RW mix as well and/or (b) Wenger wants to keep Gnabry and actually give him chances.
 
lars10

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BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
I respectfully submit that Liverpool's first three games featured two top teams (Arsenal and Spurs) , on the road no less.
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I was comparing Arsenal to the teams that were undefeated and thus are 5 points behind.

Edit: at least that was my intent.
 
lars10

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I agree and its actually worse, as United played Southampton, not Leicester, in their second match.

We're technically five points back but in some kind of schedule-adjusted standings we're probably only 2-3 points behind.
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i did that too quickly.. I didn't think Man U had played them yet but then saw them in the results and thought I must've missed it...but should've remembered that was the community shield.
 
Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Rumor is that we will sell Gnabry to Werder Bremen for 8m euro. What a shambles. He may not have done himself many favors at times in his career but Wenger really fucked this one up loaning him to Pulis last year and not extending his contract. He may bust but I can easily see him breaking out with consistent playing time in the Bundelisga and getting sold for 40M in a couple years.
 
mikeford

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Emmanuel Petit slamming Wenger for not opening the coaching door to any of his former Invincibles and saying Patrick Vieira basically hates the guy
 
the1andonly3003

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Wilshire to Bournemouth for season long loan...at least England keeps him developing in the EPL!

I also don't like the Gnarby sale to Werder Bremen...I can see him as the next record fee going to Spurs or City
 
fletcherpost

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the1andonly3003 said:
Wilshire to Bournemouth for season long loan...at least England keeps him 'developing' in the EPL!

I also don't like the Gnarby sale to Werder Bremen...I can see him as the next record fee going to Spurs or City
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I'm reading that first sentence like so...it's mild trolling ay. And everyone got that but me?

Dude should have gone to Celtic, making mincemeat of the Motherwell players would have done well for his confidence and he wouldn't have had to give up the bifters.
 
Schnerres

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the1andonly3003 said:
huh? how does that work?
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I have no idea...They probably were involved in the talks and paid some kind of money already to get the chance to buy him next season, if he´s performing on a consistent level. Bayern also has a need to fill the upcoming Ribery/Robben hole(s), so they want options...

Maybe it´s also a loan, but what I read in the german press, it´s not (loan meaning Bayern bought him and loaned him to Bremen, which would make more sense...). The Gnabry money is a lot for Bremen for an inconsistent player, so they could be happy if they got 10-20% paid by Bayern already(for the option). If he leaves in a year for the same money Bremen had to pay to Arsenal, it would mean he had a great season: win-win-win for everyone - but a looooooong way to go until then.
 
soxfan121

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Top club pressure:

"They say I'm 'L'Homme de Verre'. It means that I'm made of glass," he told the Daily Mail. "It can be painful, on a psychological level. They don't know how much I give every day of my life to try and recover. But hey, what can I do? This is my life story."
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JimBoSox9

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It's early, k?

I do think if him as more ideally a B2B type, especially with Arsenal being so prone to leaving that last midfielder back on a total island. If Elneny is straight-up better at pure defense than Conq, the latter should definitely never see the light of day.
 
blueguitar322

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I'll take a point in Paris any day.

Ospina came up huge. I was right there with others complaining that Cech didn't start, but hard to imagine Cech being any better.

Overall, despite some very ugly moments, I thought the team played fairly well. Statistically, they were just behind PSG in most categories (11 vs 10 shots, 4 vs 3 on target, 9 vs 8 chances created, 52% vs 48% possession) which isn't bad for an away game against the sixth best team in the world by Elo rating.
 
JimBoSox9

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mikeford said:
Thank god we spent 35m on Xhaka to have Arsene not play the guy in the fucking Champions League
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Considering he was held out Saturday and was available as a sub today.....pretty fuckin strange. (Based on a sample size of one game) He's a gamechanger. Fuck, they scored eight minutes after he came on today.
 
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Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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blueguitar322 said:
I'll take a point in Paris any day.

Ospina came up huge. I was right there with others complaining that Cech didn't start, but hard to imagine Cech being any better.

Overall, despite some very ugly moments, I thought the team played fairly well. Statistically, they were just behind PSG in most categories (11 vs 10 shots, 4 vs 3 on target, 9 vs 8 chances created, 52% vs 48% possession) which isn't bad for an away game against the sixth best team in the world by Elo rating.
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Statistics can be very deceiving though. PSG had the best chances by far and if Cavani could finish Arsenal could have easily lost 3-1.

In general, I think this team is playing like crap and has simply gotten very lucky in the last two matches. They didn't deserve to beat Southhampton and they didn't really deserve the point tonight either. Sometimes you get more than you deserve, sometimes less, but it tends to even out over the long run and unless this team improves quite a lot a rather harsh reckoning is going to come.

The biggest problems are correctable in the abstract at least:

1. The Koscielny-Mustafi pairing is clearly one of two guys who haven't played together much. Several of the big PSG chances were simply bad CB play and communication. Both are good individual players so one would hope that it could be a good partnership.

2. Ox is just a black hole on the pitch, offering no goal threat and hardly involved in our play. This map sums his contribution up pretty well. Wenger just needs to give it up and let somebody else play who actually can combine with Ozil and Sanchez. You can't have one of your front four offering this little on offense match after match.

 
coremiller

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Statistics can be very deceiving though. PSG had the best chances by far and if Cavani could finish Arsenal could have easily lost 3-1.

In general, I think this team is playing like crap and has simply gotten very lucky in the last two matches. They didn't deserve to beat Southhampton and they didn't really deserve the point tonight either. Sometimes you get more than you deserve, sometimes less, but it tends to even out over the long run and unless this team improves quite a lot a rather harsh reckoning is going to come.

The biggest problems are correctable in the abstract at least:

1. The Koscielny-Mustafi pairing is clearly one of two guys who haven't played together much. Several of the big PSG chances were simply bad CB play and communication. Both are good individual players so one would hope that it could be a good partnership.

2. Ox is just a black hole on the pitch, offering no goal threat and hardly involved in our play. This map sums his contribution up pretty well. Wenger just needs to give it up and let somebody else play who actually can combine with Ozil and Sanchez. You can't have one of your front four offering this little on offense match after match.

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Michael Caley's Expected Goals metric agrees with you that Arsenal were lucky not to get thrashed:

 
mikeford

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The "Alexis alone up top" experiment needs to die a swift and permanent death. We spent the entire match swinging crosses in from the wings for the head of a man who is 5'6" tall.

Alexis is a wonderful player but this is not how you utilize his fuckin skillset.

The fact that Arsene doesn't change the tactics or gameplan seemingly no matter who is actually on the pitch is mindboggling. But what other explanation is there for what we saw in the first half today? They played as if Giroud was in the center but instead its a very short Chilean man.
 
shaggydog2000

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I think it would have been a different game with Xhaka and Giroud in there from the start, with Ox and Le Coq sitting and Alexis moved to wing. It's a long season, but I expect that to be the big game alignment when they can.
 
miracleofmidre

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I would love a longform explanation from Wenger about the starting lineup. Things we don't know, things he's seen in training etc.

My hope is that there's reasoning for his choices. My fear is he doesn't have any.
 
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miracleofmidre said:
I would love a longform explanation from Wenger about the starting lineup. Things we don't know, things he's seen in training etc.

My hope is that there's reasoning for his choices. My fear is he doesn't have any.
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I do not understand this, at all.

One of the best managers of the past two decades - a guy with an enormous amount of success, year-in and year-out - and one of the most lauded tacticians in the game - has "no reasoning for his choices"?

The explanation is really simple (to me): it is September, Wenger knows that the season runs for another 9 months, and squad rotation in early-season matches helps keep the best players fresh for games in March and April.

You really think Wenger is deliberately putting out shitty lineups because he's a fucking moron? In what universe is that a "reasonable" take? Gunner-town, I suppose.
 
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