Arsenal 2016-17: Get Ready For A Xhak-attack

Schnerres

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 28, 2009
1,554
Germany
I don´t know that much about each player they have on their roster (like I can´t tell you anything about Elneny or Jenkinson). But did they even improve, although they spend 40mil.pounds?
Incoming: Xhaka, Takuma Asano (21), Rob Holding (20).
Left: Rosicky, Flamini, Arteta, Wellington (each for 0).
Yes, Xhaka is definitely the best of all those players. But the depth might have been better last year, depending on the health of other players (seeing the injuries of the defense just adds to that point).
 

mikeford

woolwich!
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2006
29,540
St John's, NL
I don´t know that much about each player they have on their roster (like I can´t tell you anything about Elneny or Jenkinson). But did they even improve, although they spend 40mil.pounds?
Incoming: Xhaka, Takuma Asano (21), Rob Holding (20).
Left: Rosicky, Flamini, Arteta, Wellington (each for 0).
Yes, Xhaka is definitely the best of all those players. But the depth might have been better last year, depending on the health of other players (seeing the injuries of the defense just adds to that point).
If they improved it was barely. In the face of their competition, they've been lapped though. So in that sense, no they did not.
 

Luis Taint

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2012
5,883
As New England sports fans we've been blessed in the last ten years or so to have owners and management who aren't working against the on field product.

This Transfer window is bullshit. ManU can go out and spend 110 million on Pogba. Arsenal are struggling to come up with half that for Lacazette and Mustafi, two players they desperately need.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
11,620
As New England sports fans we've been blessed in the last ten years or so to have owners and management who aren't working against the on field product.

This Transfer window is bullshit. ManU can go out and spend 110 million on Pogba. Arsenal are struggling to come up with half that for Lacazette and Mustafi, two players they desperately need.
While also not selling Walcott… a player they desperately need to get rid of already… or Ramsey (both players Arsene loves for some reason and he could have sold for millions but has kept consistently to make sure they're almost worthless.
 

fletcherpost

sosh's feckin' poet laureate
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,139
Glasgow, Scotland
I watched a bunch of post match fan interviews on youtube. They are very entertaining...such passion, such bile...but also some fine points being made. Arsenal cut their nose to spite their faces by dallying in the transfer market. Every day now the value on any player they might want goes up, because any team has less time to replace. I can't remember what pundit it was on Sunday who did a wee impression of Arsenal going after a payer but it was along the lines of 'Hi, we're Arsenal, can we have your best player please?'

The Kante to Chelsea and Pogba to Man U deals were initiated early doors. Sure the Pogba deal to time to complete but folks were working on that for weeks. Maybe Arsenal are negotiating right now, but if they're lowballing to save a few quid it's a fool's errand...

I reckon there will be more protests this season. And when Wenger goes, Arsenal will have to choose between a Manager who will happily go along with the business plan, or one who says 'guys i want a shot at winning the title.' Few teams have the resources to challenge. Arsenal do. And i doubt any serious Arsenal fan or football fan takes much stock in their second place finish last season. They fell back late in the season, when they had to get a result, they blew it...it was same old same old.

I actually feel bad for Arsenal fans. They have a lot of working class fans who shell out damn good money. I don't blame the players at all. They do their best. And sure Arsenal are a fine team...but to mount a serious challenge, they are always a couple of players short. I wonder if the Arsenal brand has lost value relative tot he field. I wonder if they calculate that loss, when minding the shillings.
 

Luis Taint

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2012
5,883
Benteke can go to Palace for 32mil, Arsenal trying to find enough WIC coupons to buy 20mil Mustafi.
 

candylandriots

unkempt
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 30, 2004
12,327
Berlin
Benteke can go to Palace for 32mil, Arsenal trying to find enough WIC coupons to buy 20mil Mustafi.
I really want to like Arsenal, really I do. I thought they were going to be "my" team when I started getting into watching the league. But the amount of whining that Arsenal fans do (not just here) while making Champions League every year, and buying players like Alexis Sanchez and Ozil and Cech and Xhaka (just since I've paid attention) makes it awfully hard for me to find too much sympathy. It's not so bad guys. Really. There are supporters of literally hundreds of teams that would trade places with what your team has on and off the pitch.

This is your team's thread, but it is tedious when every other post is about not having this player or that player. Maybe I should ignore it, but you guys are also knowledgeable and have some pretty good analysis that I don't want to miss.

Sorry, rant over. You can go back to whatever.
 

fletcherpost

sosh's feckin' poet laureate
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,139
Glasgow, Scotland
I really want to like Arsenal, really I do. I thought they were going to be "my" team when I started getting into watching the league. But the amount of whining that Arsenal fans do (not just here) while making Champions League every year, and buying players like Alexis Sanchez and Ozil and Cech and Xhaka (just since I've paid attention) makes it awfully hard for me to find too much sympathy. It's not so bad guys. Really. There are supporters of literally hundreds of teams that would trade places with what your team has on and off the pitch.

This is your team's thread, but it is tedious when every other post is about not having this player or that player. Maybe I should ignore it, but you guys are also knowledgeable and have some pretty good analysis that I don't want to miss.

Sorry, rant over. You can go back to whatever.
Ah you have much to learn.
 

fletcherpost

sosh's feckin' poet laureate
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,139
Glasgow, Scotland
The world is pretty fuckin miserable these days. One of the small joys of life is the Arsenal fan misery. I can't fathom why anyone would find it tiresome. In fact fan misery in general is a great thing. It's grief without death.

You know Strindberg in his notes for Miss Julie says that it's better to have a character who is from higher up the social ladder as it were, that way the fall is more tragic...i wonder if that's why i have more sympathy for Arsenal fans than Spurs fans, and i barely register a peep for hammers fans. I'm nowt if not malleable.

(Strindberg in an Arsenal thread - point to me. None of youse cunts'll gimme a point.)
 

Luis Taint

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2012
5,883
Congrats to Joel Campbell on his loan to Sporting, maybe he'll get to even play. Meanwhile, Walcott is still here.
 

smokin joe wood

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
835
Xhaka looked good and for periods Chamberlain was the only positive moving forward. So Wenger subs off both and leaves Francis Coquelin in with a yellow...
Walcott continues to flub good chances. He's infuriating to watch.
 

wonderland

New Member
Jul 20, 2005
526
I thought Ox ran out of steam so no issue with that sub. Coquelin should have been subbed off, though. He's regressed since he made his initial mark. I don't think he will see the field much in the near future.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
11,620
Xhaka looked good and for periods Chamberlain was the only positive moving forward. So Wenger subs off both and leaves Francis Coquelin in with a yellow...
Walcott continues to flub good chances. He's infuriating to watch.
What's the reason Walcott has been left on the team? He was cheap years ago but now.. Is it because he's been played to the point that he can't be sold?
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
11,620
I thought Ox ran out of steam so no issue with that sub. Coquelin should have been subbed off, though. He's regressed since he made his initial mark. I don't think he will see the field much in the near future.
Who do they have to replace him?
 

CoRP

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2007
9,457
The Epicenter
Let's all pretend for the next 24 hours that James is going agree to be a Gunner and Wenger is going to outbid Chelsea...
 

Rustjive

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2009
1,048
Interesting tweet by Ornstein here:


This explains a lot, and would be the reason for the haggling over Mustafi. It would leave ~20-27m GBP for a CF afterwards, which is roughly what Lucas Perez is rumored to be coming for.

But even more interesting is Ornstein replying to a now deleted tweet from an 'ITK', GeoffArsenal, saying "They are ready to pull the trigger on 75m for the right CF aside from what they have spent already". This would almost 100% be Griezmann, and what a dream that would be.

 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,345
Philadelphia


Ornstein thinks Mustafi and Perez are both coming to Arsenal.

I have never seen Perez play but he has a pretty interesting story. The downside is that he is almost 28 and never been on a big club. The upside is that he has had a strange, almost Vardyesque meandering career, played CF full time for the first time last year, and many people seem to think he was one of the very best players in La Liga outside the Barca/Rea/Atleti trio. So we'll see I guess.
 

mikeford

woolwich!
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2006
29,540
St John's, NL
But even more interesting is Ornstein replying to a now deleted tweet from an 'ITK', GeoffArsenal, saying "They are ready to pull the trigger on 75m for the right CF aside from what they have spent already". This would almost 100% be Griezmann, and what a dream that would be.
GeoffArsenal is so full of shit it's leaking out of his ears. I can't believe anyone listens to that dope.


Got a good UCL Group draw. I'm sure PSG will take top spot but Arsenal should (key word SHOULD) have no trouble finishing 2nd and then getting eliminated by Barcelona in the first of the knockout rounds.
 
So basically, it looks like Arsenal is going to wind up with a marquee center back and a slightly better version of Vardy (Spanish, non-racist version). Add that to Xhaka and Holding, along with some C-level prospects, and this has suddenly become a decent transfer window. If all of this had been done three weeks ago, I don't think anyone would be on Wenger's case right now, but points in August mean just as much as points in April, and Arsenal have dropped five of them already. (Neither player will be ready for Watford this weekend, either.)

Still, after all of this and today's quite decent Champions League draw, it's probably time to stop hyperventilating. This is still a frustrating club to support given all of its resources, but most Arsenal fans should feel much better about the team on the pitch this time tomorrow than they did this time yesterday.
GeoffArsenal is so full of shit it's leaking out of his ears. I can't believe anyone listens to that dope.
Didn't the reference to £75m come from Ornstein, not GeoffArsenal?
 

The Gray Eagle

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
16,725
He's not racist, he is over a year younger, and he wants to play for Arsenal.

He also cost 12 million pounds less.

The comparison doesn't even really matter much, since Arsenal preferred Vardy and went for him first. Vardy said no, so we move on and get someone else who could also be good.

At this point, it's either Lucas or no one, so I don't see how anyone can be unhappy with Lucas coming.
 
Explain how Perez is better than Vardy.
How much have you read about Lucas? This is from a Deportivo fan over at the Arsenal Mania forum:
Hello Arsenal lads, here a Deportivo fan. I just signed in to clear some things about Lucas, since it's pretty clear that you don't know the man.

First of all, I keep reading complaints about Lucas score record. Let tell me something, he started playing as a forward last year. Previously he mainly played as a winger, but last year our manager decided to test him as a our main attacking guy and it paid off. Remember that Lucas is a player who scored 17 goals and gave 9 assists for a team that ended 15th in the world's best league.

Next thing, he is very versatile. He can play as a winger, as a main striker or paired with other one. He is very fast and explosive, he has a good shot and (the most important thing) he is a hard worker. He never gives up, he will drive crazy the opposite team's defense trying to force an error so it's possible to steal the ball and create a chance. Just imagine a mix of Vardy and Luis Suarez, he is that kind of player.

Finally, PL teams are really bad at signing players. You are used to sign big and fancy names, to spend millions on overrated players who haven't proved anything yet. But let tell me you something: there are plenty of really good players out there that haven't played for a CL or national team (the only reason Lucas wasn't called was because Del Bosque is an old fart anyways). Lucas was linked to big teams during this transfer window: Sevilla, Villarreal, Leicester, Zenit... and even Barcelona. He is flying to London only because the catalonians signed Alcacer.

So yeah, you are in for a treat. You signed a perfect complement to Alexis, and waaay better than ****ty Giroud.

Congratulations.
Everton wanted to buy him because Steve Walsh is now their scout; Walsh was the guy at Leicester who identified Mahrez and Kante. Then there's this article from Sid Lowe in the Guardian back in January:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/dec/21/lucas-perez-deportivo-de-la-coruna-bebeto-record

Lowe was asked yesterday by Arseblog if Lucas would be a good fit for Arsenal, and he said, "In principle, yes, he should be. Quick, very busy, will get the space he likes, a more open, faster game."

[EDIT: Also, check out this other piece from another Deportivo fan. And for that matter, this summary of Lucas at The Short Fuse.]


So how about not being a miserable git for a few minutes and approaching this with an open mind?
 
Last edited:

Zomp

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 28, 2006
13,942
The Slums of Shaolin
Meh. Mike is a grouchy fucker but you basically pulled "a slightly better version than Vardy" out your ass. Vardy scored 24 goals last year. He was a top 3 striker in the league.
 

mikeford

woolwich!
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2006
29,540
St John's, NL
All I did was ask for an explanation to a baseless claim.

That Deportivo fan thinks La Liga is the best league in the world so I'm not sure I trust his judgement on anything.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

RIP Dernell
SoSH Member
Mar 24, 2008
7,204
Meh. Mike is a grouchy fucker but you basically pulled "a slightly better version than Vardy" out your ass. Vardy scored 24 goals last year. He was a top 3 striker in the league.
To be fair, it looks like he blatantly stole it from the Arsenal forum he quoted.

Poor man's Vardy may not be too bad of a description. I certainly did not catch a single Deportivo game last season, so it's hard to just the impact of strength of team on goals scored. Vardy scored 24 of his team's 68 goals. Lucas scored 17 of his team's 45 in what is certainly a less deep league. Of those he had 3 goals and 2 assists in the 7 games he played against Barca, Real Madrid, Atletico and Villareal (small sample obviously). He's also two years younger than Vardy.
 

miracleofmidre

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 5, 2009
275
Brooklyn NY
This might be a crude piece of math, but why not. City pay 47M quid for Stones. Wenger and Arsenal get a proven 24 year old German international in Mustafi as well as the promising Holding for 37M quid combined. That leaves him 10M to put towards Perez, so for that premium of 7M quid he's got three players of need. That's damn good business, speculatively, without yet knowing how Perez will do. It's not a knock on City, just a bit of perspective on how the assets can be deployed.

Wenger gets stick for the time it took. But maybe time is what it takes for these things to all play out; they must be far more complex than any of us know, for the most part. While it took longer than it ideally should have, past the start of the season and dropped points, they seem to be happening, and these moves are for the longer-term so that perspective must also be considered.*

Time to focus on the games.

*this summer doesn't excuse him last year's transfer window of "Cech plus nobody".
 
Last edited:

teddykgb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
11,025
Chelmsford, MA
Mustafi a "marquee CB" is also a bit of a stretch. These may turn out to be good signings if they happen, but there's certainly a ton of risk involved. That's the market these days and you can say that about anyone. It's strange to berate Arsenal fans for unwarranted optimism but let's not act like they just signed two of the hottest properties in world football either.
 

miracleofmidre

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 5, 2009
275
Brooklyn NY
Mustafi a "marquee CB" is also a bit of a stretch. These may turn out to be good signings if they happen, but there's certainly a ton of risk involved. That's the market these days and you can say that about anyone. It's strange to berate Arsenal fans for unwarranted optimism but let's not act like they just signed two of the hottest properties in world football either.
Not sure where I have seen these players regarded as "two of the hottest properties", so that's a bit of a straw man. Relative to Arsenal's own needs, though, they are pretty important properties.

Risk manifests itself in many ways. Risk is putting 100M into a single player (however fantastic that player is there's the spectre of injury or poor performance), risk is spreading half that amount of money (which is still a LOT of money) across lesser, EPL-unproven players who may not adapt. I think it's a legitimate debate; sometimes I wish that "value" wasn't in multiples but rather the flashy 100M star who seems more sure (who wouldn't want a guy like Pogba and all he can and will do?), sometimes not.

Considering what Arsenal needs (since these signings haven't actually been confirmed I won't say "needed") I am ok with a wider, longer-term view that simultaneously addresses the short-term needs; youth in the defensive core, spine, and perhaps a few goals. But maybe I am brainwashed, too.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,345
Philadelphia
All I did was ask for an explanation to a baseless claim.

That Deportivo fan thinks La Liga is the best league in the world so I'm not sure I trust his judgement on anything.
Well, La Liga teams have won 48 of their last 51 European ties against non-La Liga squads. I'd say that is pretty good.

English fans will talk about the greater depth of the EPL and in some ways they're right. On the other hand, the teams providing that depth can't seem to beat the likes of Astra Giurgiu, so maybe not.
 

teddykgb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
11,025
Chelmsford, MA
Not sure where I have seen these players regarded as "two of the hottest properties", so that's a bit of a straw man. Relative to Arsenal's own needs, though, they are pretty important properties.

Risk manifests itself in many ways. Risk is putting 100M into a single player (however fantastic that player is there's the spectre of injury or poor performance), risk is spreading half that amount of money (which is still a LOT of money) across lesser, EPL-unproven players who may not adapt. I think it's a legitimate debate; sometimes I wish that "value" wasn't in multiples but rather the flashy 100M star who seems more sure (who wouldn't want a guy like Pogba and all he can and will do?), sometimes not.

Considering what Arsenal needs (since these signings haven't actually been confirmed I won't say "needed") I am ok with a wider, longer-term view that simultaneously addresses the short-term needs; youth in the defensive core, spine, and perhaps a few goals. But maybe I am brainwashed, too.
I'm literally quoting from this thread where Mustafi is called precisely what I said and then someone says the new striker is a better version of the striker who ripped the Prem to shreds last season. These are beyond ambitious claims about players.
 
OK, I'm projecting that Lucas might turn out to be a slightly better version of Vardy. You got me. (Damned if you try to be optimistic, damned if you try to be pessimistic.)

As for Mustafi, he plays center back for the reigning World Cup holders, and so can fairly be called "marquee" if not "world class".
 
Last edited:

mikeford

woolwich!
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2006
29,540
St John's, NL
Well, La Liga teams have won 48 of their last 51 European ties against non-La Liga squads. I'd say that is pretty good.

English fans will talk about the greater depth of the EPL and in some ways they're right. On the other hand, the teams providing that depth can't seem to beat the likes of Astra Giurgiu, so maybe not.
I think it's more important to talk about the greater depth of the EPL when we're talking about guys from the teams that aren't good in La Liga.

I would be interested to know exactly WHO Perez scored his goals last season against. If it's only bottom of the table teams like Deportivo, to me that isn't a tremendous indicator that he'll be any good in England, where even the crappiest of teams tend to be decent. Except last year's Villa side, woof.