The September Callup Thread

Rasputin

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It's almost here and there could be some interesting decisions. The Sox have traditionally limited the number of callups when they're in a race so who will it be?

There will be at least one catcher, and Christian Vazquez is the only one in Pawtucket that's on the 40 man, so it'll be him.

I have to think Joe Kelly comes up for the bullpen.

I think it will be an interesting question whether Roenis Elias, Henry Owens, and Brian Johnson come up. I think it will be a less interesting question whether Noe Ramirez and or Sean O'Sullivan come up. Some folks have mentioned Kyle Martin as a bullpen option, but he isn't on the 40 man.

My guess is that Owens comes up, and I think there will be more than that, but I'm not at all sure about any of the others for various reasons.

Elias has been terribad, not even getting lefties out with anything resembling consistency, I question the wisdom of bringing

Brian Johnson up after he missed so much of a season due to anxiety issues. If there's anything that bring it all back up, the pressure of pitching in a big league pennant race might be it. I could very easily be wrong about this.

Noe Ramirez and Sean O'Sullivan just aint that good.

On the other hand, Eduardo Rodriguez and Steven Wright are coming off the DL. Wright will take the spot Henry most recently inhabited. That means Hembree will go back down and I assume he'll come right back up on 9/1. Sure, they could just cut Abad or DL Taz but I doubt they'll do that.

If Rodriguez is going to be used in the bullpen, they might send him down on a "rehab" assignment to get a couple bullpen appearances in before bringing him up.

As far as non catcher position players in Pawtucket I think the candidates are Bryce Brentz, Marco Hernandez, and Deven Marrero and for the life of me, the only argument I can think of against calling them up is that you don't want to call up too many guys. Calling them all up would be four position players and I'm not sure that's too many. We have games in an NL park starting on 9/5.

Vazquez, Henry, Hembree, Brentz, Hernandez might be the extent of it.

But then there's Yoan Moncada.

I think we all want to see him. He's hitting well in AA. He's been playing some third. If he comes up, I suspect he'll be used primarily as a pinch runner with a little action at second or third and maybe an occasional plate appearance. The difference between Papi's speed and Moncada's could easily be the difference between scoring a run and not.
 

Rasputin

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Oh, and if Papelbon is going to pitch this year, he'll want to be with a team before 9/1.
 

joe dokes

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Based solely on what I read about Johnson's anxiety issues, I wonder if getting called up after the Pawtucket season ends with the (explicit or implicit) idea that he wont be in any hi-lev situations (or even pitch at all) would be good for him in some sense. I'm out on a medical limb here, but it would represent, at least symbolically, completion of his comeback from a difficult 365 days and a showing by the team that he's still part of it. (My sense is that he knows that because they treated him well, but still . . . .)

But other than Johnson, I think Ras' list gets it. As shitty as the road trip is, having a giant roster for the 3 games in SD is a nice break.

(Ultimately, I dont think Rodriguez goes to the pen but lets see how things shake out first)
 

grimshaw

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It's almost here and there could be some interesting decisions. The Sox have traditionally limited the number of callups when they're in a race so who will it be?

There will be at least one catcher, and Christian Vazquez is the only one in Pawtucket that's on the 40 man, so it'll be him.
There's the corpse of Ryan Hanigan too, but you may have literally meant in Pawtucket. They could also add him to the 60 day DL if they want another spot. I don't even know if he's better or worse than Holoday at this point.

Here's how I see it, and I don't think 40 man space is an issue this or next year even with 5 guys coming back from the 60 in 2017

Locks: Vazquez (obvious), Noe Ramirez (taking one for the team), Kelly (potential impact arm), Hernandez (to spell Bogaerts two or three times and maybe pinch hit in SD) for sure.

Probably: Elias (if Ramirez isn't available), Moncada (to drink or provide coffee and pinch run. I think Hill will get the veteran treatment over him until the games are meaningless). and Marrero (2b/SS defensive replacement in blow outs only).

Possible: Kyle Martin, Brandon Workman, Brian Johnson. I think Workman is the likelier of the three. He used to be Farrell's binky. Johnson is stretched out, and given what he went through, maybe a move to the pen wouldn't be helpful.

Unlikely: Chandler Shepherd (I'd like to see him get a chance, but I haven't heard a word about him organizationally), Brentz (redundant since Young is back) Cuevas, O Sullivan. The latter two are the guys you can call while they're on the beach on 10-1 and ask them to come to work that day if you absolutely need innings. Owens (too squirrelly to move to the pen this late, and too many arms).

They actually don't need a lot of arms since they have 6 starters now and need to move one out of the rotation. They do need a Tazawa buffer so I think 3-4 extra arms at most is all.
 
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Byrdbrain

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0.5 ?
Instead of over/under I assume you mean %, I don't think they will but I'm typically wrong so I'll go with 25%

Edit:In response to JackL
 

grimshaw

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0.5 ?
Instead of over/under I assume you mean %, I don't think they will but I'm typically wrong so I'll go with 25%

Edit:In response to JackL
I actually think it's a bit higher since he's been playing 3B, and I don't think he would be doing that this late in the season if he weren't coming up. Plus Butterfield is one of the best defensive coaches in MLB and probably the extra instruction couldn't hurt.
 
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BaseballJones

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Vazquez, Kelly, Owens, Martin, Hembree, Brentz, and Moncada

With Papelbon being added to the bullpen (I am guessing they sign him), and Wright and Rodriguez also being added off the DL, the Sox will have a ton of options to choose from.

I add Moncada because I am guessing it won't impact his service time in any meaningful way. And he might as well come up and be with the big club, maybe getting some pinch running in there, or in a few spots, some ABs. I can't really see the harm, if the alternative is that he just goes back home and works out. He can do all that with the major league club, plus he might actually be able to help out a little.
 

BuellMiller

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There's the corpse of Ryan Hanigan too, but you may have literally meant in Pawtucket. They could also add him to the 60 day DL if they want another spot. I don't even know if he's better or worse than Holoday at this point.

Here's how I see it, and I don't think 40 man space is an issue this or next year even with 5 guys coming back from the 60 in 2017

Locks: Vazquez (obvious), Noe Ramirez (taking one for the team), Kelly (potential impact arm), Hernandez (to spell Bogaerts two or three times and maybe pinch hit in SD) for sure.

Probably: Elias (if Ramirez isn't available), Moncada (to drink or provide coffee and pinch run. I think Hill will get the veteran treatment over him until the games are meaningless). and Marrero (2b/SS defensive replacement in blow outs only).

Possible: Kyle Martin, Brandon Workman, Brian Johnson. I think Workman is the likelier of the three. He used to be Farrell's binky. Johnson is stretched out, and given what he went through, maybe a move to the pen wouldn't be helpful.

Unlikely: Chandler Shepherd (I'd like to see him get a chance, but I haven't heard a word about him organizationally), Brentz (redundant since Young is back) Cuevas, O Sullivan. The latter two are the guys you can call while they're on the beach on 10-1 and ask them to come to work that day if you absolutely need innings. Owens (too squirrelly to move to the pen this late, and too many arms).

They actually don't need a lot of arms since they have 6 starters now and need to move one out of the rotation. They do need a Tazawa buffer so I think 3-4 extra arms at most is all.

Plus, Workman gives Farrell another batter to use.
 

joe dokes

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Possible: Kyle Martin, Brandon Workman, Brian Johnson. I think Workman is the likelier of the three. He used to be Farrell's binky. Johnson is stretched out, and given what he went through, maybe a move to the pen wouldn't be helpful.
Workman has pitched in 8 minor league games this year; 14 innings. None above AA. I can't imagine how anyone in the organization thinks he's ready to be in the Majors.
 

luckysox

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I think Moncada could out-hit Shaw against righties. Not that he'll get the chance to, but if he had to in a pinch, I bet he'd hit decently enough.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Workman has pitched in 8 minor league games this year; 14 innings. None above AA. I can't imagine how anyone in the organization thinks he's ready to be in the Majors.
Yeah, Workman doesn't even appear like an option for the role of emergency inning eater. Kelly is obvious and while Noe would seem to be as well I'd prefer Johnson who is more stretched out and can get us from the 2nd to the 8th should a starter get shelled early and we're down 8-1. That provides value and a specific role that helps the team......I'm not sure what role Noe would provide, certainly not one that Kelly couldn't. My choices are Kelly and Johnson for the pen.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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Noe is the mop up in a blow out in which the pen crapped the bed and gave up 6 runs.

Edit: stupid auto correct.
 

joe dokes

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I think Moncada could out-hit Shaw against righties. Not that he'll get the chance to, but if he had to in a pinch, I bet he'd hit decently enough.
It's not that far-fetched.
Bogaerts eventually pushed Middlebrooks aside at 3B after 50 PAs in 2013 post-season. So goes Moncada over Shaw?
 

grimshaw

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Workman has pitched in 8 minor league games this year; 14 innings. None above AA. I can't imagine how anyone in the organization thinks he's ready to be in the Majors.
I'd buy relative ineffectiveness as the main reason to stay away from him which is part of the reason why I listed him as a possibility only. 8 appearances is a lot for anyone rehabbing. And level really doesn't matter. Guys pitch where there's a roster spot when coming back from injury.
 

SouthernBoSox

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Moncada is not Andrew Benintendi. The approach is significantly different and the swing and miss is very much still a part of his game. You almost knew Benintendi could at worst handle the majors with his approach, but that can't be said of Moncada.

He could come up and hit 4 homers in 3 games... or he could come up and be really really bad. I don't like gambling on the downside with such a promising player.
 

luckysox

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It's not that far-fetched.
Bogaerts eventually pushed Middlebrooks aside at 3B after 50 PAs in 2013 post-season. So goes Moncada over Shaw?
I guess it isn't especially since you have Hill for the other side of the platoon. It would sure piss Shaw off, but he hasn't been too great of late, at least not that I have noticed. It would be interesting to see Moncada get a few chances and run with them - figuratively and literally. If he gets on 1st, you can bet he'll try to get to 2nd, and that's a dynamic that Shaw does not possess. He does possess Shaw's ability to crush one, and his ability may be even better, even at this point in his young career. I still don't expect it to happen, but you're right, it wouldn't be too far fetched.
 

luckysox

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Sure, Moncada could suck, and sure, he strikes out more than Benintendi. So does Shaw. It's worth the risk - he's not going to wilt into a little fragile flower if he sucks. The dude is freaking supremely talented, and that won't go away because he might strike out a bunch in a September call-up from AA.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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With word coming that Moncada is headed to the Arizona Fall League, that would seem to indicate there's little chance he gets a call-up in September.
 

johnnywayback

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I'm for calling up Moncada on 9/1. This team lacks a Quintin Berry type to pinch-run in September and (hopefully) October (where you generally carry one less pitcher and one more bench player for exactly this purpose) -- none of our bench guys (Holaday, Hill, Holt, Young) have that kind of speed, and neither does anybody in Pawtucket. They could go find someone on waivers, I suppose. But if you're in a situation where you run for Ortiz in the 9th to tie the game, and then the spot comes up in the 11th, wouldn't you rather gamble on Moncada's offensive upside over watching someone like Ryan LaMarre take that at-bat?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Noe is the mop up in a blow out in which the pen crapped the bed and gave up 6 runs.

Edit: stupid auto correct.
He really isn't though. Noe hasn't thrown more than 42 pitches in a game all season. We need an inning eater in the 2nd of an 8-1 game he's only getting you through the 4th, maybe the 5th......and we'd be burning 3 others to finish the game. There isn't a role for Noe that Johnson couldn't provide while there is one for Johnson which Noe cannot provide.
 

BaseballJones

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He really isn't though. Noe hasn't thrown more than 42 pitches in a game all season. We need an inning eater in the 2nd of an 8-1 game he's only getting you through the 4th, maybe the 5th......and we'd be burning 3 others to finish the game. There isn't a role for Noe that Johnson couldn't provide while there is one for Johnson which Noe cannot provide.
How much does it cost the Sox to have both here?
 

Bowlerman9

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I add Moncada because I am guessing it won't impact his service time in any meaningful way. And he might as well come up and be with the big club, maybe getting some pinch running in there, or in a few spots, some ABs. I can't really see the harm, if the alternative is that he just goes back home and works out. He can do all that with the major league club, plus he might actually be able to help out a little.
There's a chance it doesnt impact his service time, but there's a chance it does.

Right now he has 0 days of service time. If he kills it in AFL and has a monster spring training and shows he is ready for the big leagues, all the team needs to do is keep him in the minors for the first 9-10 days of the season and they will control his rights for a full 6 years after 2017.

If they call him up for the month of September, he earns ~30 days of service time. If the same situation happens (crushes AFL, great spring), now the team needs to keep him in the minors for ~40 days to not lose a year of team control.

If Dombrowski has no plans to use Moncada at all in April/May 2017, then there is no harm in calling him up in September (except for having to use a 40 man roster spot on him all winter). If there is any chance he makes the team out of ST, don't burn the service time now.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I'm for calling up Moncada on 9/1. This team lacks a Quintin Berry type to pinch-run in September and (hopefully) October (where you generally carry one less pitcher and one more bench player for exactly this purpose) -- none of our bench guys (Holaday, Hill, Holt, Young) have that kind of speed, and neither does anybody in Pawtucket. They could go find someone on waivers, I suppose. But if you're in a situation where you run for Ortiz in the 9th to tie the game, and then the spot comes up in the 11th, wouldn't you rather gamble on Moncada's offensive upside over watching someone like Ryan LaMarre take that at-bat?
With Betts, Pedroia, JBJ, Bogaerts, and Benintendi in the lineup, the need for a "Quintin Berry" type seems minimal at best. Holt and Young may not have blazing speed, but they can run well enough to be used in a late game situation to upgrade from Ortiz. I'm not sure the Roberts/Berry role is enough of a reason to add Moncada to the 40-man roster.

As I posted before, Moncada is slated to play in the Arizona Fall League. While that by itself doesn't preclude him from playing in September, it does indicate that the team feels he still has things to work on in his development (otherwise why send him to AZ?). Given that, it's also likely they don't see him as a 25-man guy next April, so why add him to the 40-man now and necessitate using an option next spring when they can leave him right where he is without having to worry about juggling the roster?
 

Soxfan in Fla

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He really isn't though. Noe hasn't thrown more than 42 pitches in a game all season. We need an inning eater in the 2nd of an 8-1 game he's only getting you through the 4th, maybe the 5th......and we'd be burning 3 others to finish the game. There isn't a role for Noe that Johnson couldn't provide while there is one for Johnson which Noe cannot provide.
I'm referring to the games in which the pen blows up in the 7th and 8th and we need someone to mop up the 9th.
 

AB in DC

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Currently on the 40-man roster:

Starting pitchers
Roenis Elias
Brian Johnson
Henry Owens

-> I don't see a downside to bringing up any of them. Owens and Elias have been in the majors several times before, and Johnson seems like a classic example of a prospect ready for a September call-up.

Relievers
William Cuevas
Williams Jerez
Joe Kelly
Noe Ramirez

--> Kelly and Ramirez seem likely. I don't think Cuevas or Jerez are ready.

Position players
Bryce Brentz
Marco Hernandez
Deven Marrero
Christian Vazquez

-> All four are basically locks.


As mentioned, there's only one more open spot on the 40-man roster, which could be filled with someone coming off the 60-day DL (Workman?) or a brand-new addition (Moncada?). I don't think either are likely. In a pinch they could move Hangian to the 60-day DL, but there's no real reason to.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I'm referring to the games in which the pen blows up in the 7th and 8th and we need someone to mop up the 9th.
Ah, that was the disconnect. That is something Kelly or Abad or Tazawa can handle. My Johnson role was to not burn an entire pen early on with 6-7 innings to go in a game we are well behind early.

How much does it cost the Sox to have both here?
I can't imagine calling up 3 pitchers along with multiple utility guys. 2 would seem to be the absolute max if another pitcher not named Kelly was called up.
 

johnnywayback

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With Betts, Pedroia, JBJ, Bogaerts, and Benintendi in the lineup, the need for a "Quintin Berry" type seems minimal at best. Holt and Young may not have blazing speed, but they can run well enough to be used in a late game situation to upgrade from Ortiz. I'm not sure the Roberts/Berry role is enough of a reason to add Moncada to the 40-man roster.

As I posted before, Moncada is slated to play in the Arizona Fall League. While that by itself doesn't preclude him from playing in September, it does indicate that the team feels he still has things to work on in his development (otherwise why send him to AZ?). Given that, it's also likely they don't see him as a 25-man guy next April, so why add him to the 40-man now and necessitate using an option next spring when they can leave him right where he is without having to worry about juggling the roster?
The issue isn't how many players you might want to pinch-run for, the issue is who pinch-runs when you need a stolen base or someone you're confident can score from first on a double (or from second on a single, or from third on a sac fly). You could use Holt or Young to run for Ortiz, but then you don't have Holt available to play the field or Young available to PH for Shaw or Benintendi against a tough lefty.

The whole reason the "Roberts/Berry role" is a thing is that you have that one extra spot on the post-season bench (because you don't need to carry 12 pitchers in a short series). So even if you think the upgrade from Holt to Moncada as the pinch-runner is marginal (and I think it's way more than that), what is a better use for that spot? Bryce Brentz? Marco Hernandez? A third catcher?

The downside only exists if you think Moncada's is likely to be ready to establish himself as an everyday player earlier than June 2017 or later than April 2020. If it's later, then, yes, having him on the 40-man now is an issue, but then he's not the player we all hope he is anyway, is he? If it's earlier, then, yes, starting his service clock now might mean choosing between having him waste six weeks in the minors or having him hit free agency after 2021 instead of after 2022 -- but even assuming that issue isn't addressed in the next CBA negotiations, it seems like a pretty small price to pay for what I think is a pretty big upgrade to the post-season roster.

To me, it makes too much sense: You bring him up to be a pinch-runner with some rare-for-a-pinch-runner offensive upside now, have him spend the fall and the beginning of 2017 playing 3B everyday and working on his RH swing while you give Sandoval a chance to prove himself, and he's the guy starting sometime mid-season. In that scenario, there's no downside at all.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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The one potential downside is Moncada taking up a 40 man roster spot this winter that could be used to protect someone from Rule V. I don't know if it's really an issue or not. Bringing it up for the more knowledgeable posters to answer.
 

Rasputin

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With word coming that Moncada is headed to the Arizona Fall League, that would seem to indicate there's little chance he gets a call-up in September.
I would think so. I'm sure they can change their mind, but I would think so. Deven Marrero can probably be the pinch runner and if he isn't as exciting as Moncada, he'd be able to go play any infield position if it were necessary.

I don't see any reason to think Noe Ramirez is likely. The pitching staff is currently Abad, Barnes, Buchholz, Hembree, Kimbrel, Pomeranz, Porcello, Rice, Rodriguez, Ross, Tazawa, Ziegler. It will soon expand to include Wright. If you add Joe Kelly and Henry Owens, do you really think you need someone else to mop up the ninth? I don't know about you'se guys, but Henry, Taz, and Abad are already mopup guys in my mind.
 

grimshaw

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The one potential downside is Moncada taking up a 40 man roster spot this winter that could be used to protect someone from Rule V. I don't know if it's really an issue or not. Bringing it up for the more knowledgeable posters to answer.
Ortiz, Tazawa, Koji, Ziegler, Hill and Hanigan are all free agents or gone if you count Ortiz and Hanigan's option declined. Jerez, Cuevas, Noe Ramirez, Holaday, Brentz, O'Sullivan, Marerro are all fungible.

They have to make room for Swihart, Carson Smith, Sandoval, and Workman/Rutledge if they want to. Smith may even start on the 60 day, and Rutledge could be added to the fungible list.

They could get to 32 before losing anyone of substance (31 if you don't consider Sandoval "substance") or signing free agents.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Ortiz, Tazawa, Koji, Ziegler, Hill and Hanigan are all free agents or gone if you count Ortiz and Hanigan's option declined. Jerez, Cuevas, Noe Ramirez, Holaday, Brentz, O'Sullivan, Marerro are all fungible.

They have to make room for Swihart, Carson Smith, Sandoval, and Workman/Rutledge if they want to. Smith may even start on the 60 day, and Rutledge could be added to the fungible list.

They could get to 32 before losing anyone of substance (31 if you don't consider Sandoval "substance") or signing free agents.
Keep in mind that the 60-day DL guys have to be added back at the end of the year. It would appear that for nearly every free agent departure/retirement you list, their spot goes right to Swihart, Smith, Sandoval, Workman, Rutledge (assuming none of them come off before the end of the year, such as Workman). So the major clearing of spots will have to come from non-tendering/DFAing the "fungibles", not all of which they are likely to be in a rush to part ways with.

Considering there are plenty of alternatives for any role that Moncada could fill in September/October, it hardly seems worth adding him to the roster now when it can wait until he's truly ready to be brought up to contribute significantly.
 

Plympton91

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Plus, Workman gives Farrell another batter to use.
When's the last time he ran the bases?

I don't see Owens coming up at all unless Edro or Wright have lingering injuries.

Vazquez becomes the backup catcher, Kelly becomes an important piece of the bullpen, Marerrro for defense and pinch running, Ramirez or maybe Cuevas/Johnson/Owens (of the 4 Johnson is the best, but maybe Noe can get a RH out in the 5th inning for a struggling starter (like Upton last Sunday) to pitch two innings in blowouts, Brentz for emergency outfield depth and a PH for the pitcher against a lefty in the 6th inning in SD or for Vazquez against a lefty late in games, Hernandez should come up because he earned it but Farrell won't use him for some reason so maybe. Not right away.
 

Byrdbrain

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I could see them *not* making room for Sandoval. :)
I assume they give him one more shot to prove he can play but hopefully the recent ARod and Josh Hamilton releases have made the Sox management a bit less reluctant to dump sunk costs if it is determined he just isn't a very good player any more.
 

grimshaw

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Keep in mind that the 60-day DL guys have to be added back at the end of the year. It would appear that for nearly every free agent departure/retirement you list, their spot goes right to Swihart, Smith, Sandoval, Workman, Rutledge (assuming none of them come off before the end of the year, such as Workman). So the major clearing of spots will have to come from non-tendering/DFAing the "fungibles", not all of which they are likely to be in a rush to part ways with.
Didn't realize it was that soon. Good to know.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Not sure but would assume you are correct. Even so, that'd be $2M plus the luxury tax hit for what exactly? And he'd tie up a 40 man slot until they dfa him again next season.
Not to mention that he kinda sucks and would be our backup to the backupnleftfielder.
 

grimshaw

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The only case I could see for Castillo is as a pinch runner if they don't promote Moncada, but that seems kind of silly. As indicated above, they'll have 1st to 3rd guys like Holt, Hernandez (listed as solid average speed), and Marrero. Castillo is faster, but hasn't been a huge base stealer.
 
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E5 Yaz

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Keep in mind, calling up Castillo means putting him (and his contract) back on the 40
 

Sampo Gida

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Crazy thought, but given the bullpen concerns, could Kopech be an answer? Its probably a gamble seeing he is only in A+ and lacks secondary pitches, but 100+ mph fast balls out of the pen could be valuable if he can command it. I know putting him on the 40 man is an issue, but the gamble could have a high payoff, Like I said, its a crazy thought but the pen is rather scary
 

Cesar Crespo

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Crazy thought, but given the bullpen concerns, could Kopech be an answer? Its probably a gamble seeing he is only in A+ and lacks secondary pitches, but 100+ mph fast balls out of the pen could be valuable if he can command it. I know putting him on the 40 man is an issue, but the gamble could have a high payoff, Like I said, its a crazy thought but the pen is rather scary
It was already discussed somewhere on here, maybe the bullpen thread. It's not going to happen.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I'll state again I'd like to see Robby Scott added. Since no one gave me a scouting report, I'm going to scout his stat line and say he would be a good bullpen addition.