I'm sure Pomeranz may miss a start or two down the stretch to limit his innings a bit but due to his age and length of career I don't think there is as much of a concern about an innings limit. It's not like he's 2 years out of A ball and 21.
Pitching Targets
- Thread starter nvalvo
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Is it wrong I almost rather have Benintendi and Moncada in the lineup the next five years than win a world series this year?
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according to the scouting report moncada has enough arm / athleticism to play almost anywhere on the diamond, including 3B.
http://soxprospects.com/players/moncada-yoan.htm
http://soxprospects.com/players/moncada-yoan.htm
That´s what i wanted to ask you, as i don´t have much of a clue about the meanings of his season-to-season IP and what that means for the rest of this year going forward. Especially come a possible playoff-time.
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2011/22yo: 119.1 IP, 2012/23yo: 147.1 IP, 2013/24yo: 112.2 IP, 2014/25yo: 115.1 IP, 2015/26yo: 88 IP, 2016/27yo: 111 IP (MinorLeagueStats included)
65 games remaining, should be at least 10*5 IP=160IP for him if he doesn´t get injured. Could that result in trouble or not at all?
Yes, but I get it. The idea of a fully home grown defensive lineup is really enticing.
It's totally age dependent. The working theory is that once a pitcher hits age 26, the pitcher has avoided the "injury nexus" where young pitchers can ruin their arms when they have a big jump in innings. Here's a Fangraphs article about it.
Everyone answered this already, but 99% chance it is 3rd base. Betts, Bradley and NES are most likely our starting OF for the next 5 years barring a trade. Devers probably gets moved to 1st and even in the best possible outcome, he doesn't get significant time in Boston until 2018. I'm more interested in what they do with Travis Shaw/Brock Holt and what kind of value one of them would get in a trade. They could theoretically have roles on the 2017 team even with Moncada and NES starting, but that is assuming they sign no FA and you think Holt/Shaw offer more value to the team off the bench for the team than what they could get in return. I'd guess a league average, cost controlled 3b could return a significant piece, even if it isn't a player the caliber of Chris Sale.
And on a side note, I think Buccholz will make a better MR than Joe Kelly, but I don't trust either one. I'd guess if the sox do make a trade, it's a minor one to shore up the bullpen and that the biggest name the Sox will trade, if any, is the other Basabe whose season (.260/.329/.469) has gone mostly under the radar because of a terrible May. 19 games in July, .373/.448/.640 to follow a .269/.329/.480 June. 1st Half 52 games, 194 At bats (.222/.293/.397) 20bb/64ks, 9/9 in sb, 9 2b, 5 3b, 5 hr.. 2nd Half 25 games, 98 at bats (.337/.400/.612) 10bb/22k 8/10 SB. 8 2b, 3 triples, 5 HRs. Given his power/speed combo, defensive profile and his performance since June, he's the lottery ticket teams would most likely target and probably the best prospect the sox are willing to give up in any move for a MR.
Phil Rogers @philgrogers 2m2 minutes ago
Can say @whitesox love @RedSox CF Andrew Benintendi. He could be the front man in a multi-player Chris Sale trade if talks progress.
Can say @whitesox love @RedSox CF Andrew Benintendi. He could be the front man in a multi-player Chris Sale trade if talks progress.
Heyman concurs, says Red Sox picked him one spot ahead of White Sox chance.
I wonder what the sticking point is? Are the White Sox asking for both Moncada and Benintendi? Or are they going for a top 4 young players other than Moncada (Ben., Swihart, ERod, Devers) and Dealin' Dave is trying to take two of them out and put in lesser prospects?
I just can't help but think that in the end this gets done for the 4 mentioned plus Owens.
I just can't help but think that in the end this gets done for the 4 mentioned plus Owens.
I wouldn't be opposed to trading NES for Sale, it just depends what else would be going back to Chicago. If it was something like NES, Kopech and Ockimey, I'd pull the trigger but I doubt the pale hose would. That is a top 10 prospect, a top 50 prospect, and a fringe top 100-150 prospect. I wouldn't feel comfortable adding much more unless it's filler. If the starting price is NES+Devers, no thanks.
The sticking point would be the price. That is way too steep a price to pay for Sale. All 4 of those guys were top 25-50 prospects in 2015 and still have tremendous value. You'd also like to keep ERod if possible because they are one injury away from starting Clay Buccholz.
Of course the White Sox are asking for both Moncada and Benintendi and probably more. What's more is they have no compelling reason to come down on that asking price, not with Sale under team control for three more years. And Dombrowski really should not be compelled to acquiesce to that price because I can't imagine there's another team that could or would match it and snipe Sale out from underneath him.
I'd guess there's a 99.9999% chance that Chris Sale is still in a White Sox uniform on August 1 (same for Quintana). The White Sox simply have no reason to rush to trade him now.
When did Pomeranz become Strasburg? "Limiting innings" means not pushing into 100+ pitches and a 7th (or 8th) inning......it doesn't mean he's going to skip a start down the stretch of a playoff run while Clay gets the ball and it certainly doesn't mean we are going to Strasburg him. The mere thought of that hurts the brain.
The players moved for Kimbrel were all blocked in Boston. This was a calculated trade to rid our system of a ton of redundancy while filling a huge need in Boston whether we were going for it or not. They were going to be traded at some point anyway with so spot in CF or SS available for them to play in Boston should they continue to progress.
I always considered that a pitch count. I imagine you can manage innings that way, but if he's at 70 pitches after after 6 innings or 80 after 7 odds are pretty good he'll come out for another inning if the game is in the balance. That said I agree that we're not going to see him get Strasburged.
Er, win? Maybe, but let's face it, the Cubs are loading up for a deep postseason run. Even assuming the Sox can get all the way to the WS, they'd be significant underdogs -- based on the present makeup of the teams. So do you mortgage your future for a slim shot at a title? I don't think it's unreasonable to say no, and I don't see the Sox even contemplating such a thing. What they are rumored to be contemplating, e.g. Sale, is a shot at 2016 and a few additional years as well, and it makes much more sense to sell six seasons of some elite prospects in exchange for a three-year window or what have you.
That would solve the outfield problem and move HOLT back into the Jackofalltrades role, which is a great thing.
Sorry for the flagrant stupidity, but whom does NES stand for? Contextually, it seems to point to Benintendi, but I don't quite get it.
Benintendi. People have taken the bolded as a reason to nickname him "Nintendo". NES...Nintendo Entertainment System.
It's fucking stupid.
I would be happy if the Red Sox traded Benintendi, Kopech (hate to lose him but I would move him for Sale), either B.Johnson or H.Owens, J.Ockimey, and M.Chavis (please take him) for Sale. That kind of trade would really thin out the farm system but at least the Red Sox retain Moncada, Devers, and Groom. Unfortunately, that offer probably isn't good enough for the White Sox. Still, that would be my best offer--I do fear that DD will give up even more.
You wonder if the Red Sox should have avoided Pomeranz and offered the White Sox a package built around two stud prospects: Benintendi and Espinoza.
You wonder if the Red Sox should have avoided Pomeranz and offered the White Sox a package built around two stud prospects: Benintendi and Espinoza.
Not as stupid as using profanity to point out something stupid.
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With the information the Sox had, they undoubtedly realized that Sale was always going to be a long long long shot, and that Pomeranz was going to be a hot commodity at the deadline. If they had made a lame bid for Pomeranz, they likely would have ended up with nothing, or worse, having to contemplate overpaying for Mr Duct Tape from Oakland. Dombrowski has played this well so far.
It's how I learned to spell his name, and I'm guessing a lot of others. Be Nintendo.
It is possible that they could solve the bullpen issues from within. I think LF is a bigger issue than people realize especially with the Red Sox playing so many road games in the second half and inevitably experience a decline in offensive production. Holt just doesn't hit enough to be the starting LF, he has the bat of a utility player.
His name reminds some of "Nintendo." The original grey box system from the 80's was called the Nintendo Entertainment System or NES.
Certainly, and far from stupid. Its actually a fun nickname, and nicknames are a fun part of baseball and its history. Better than ABen. Maybe lighten up RHF.
Seconded.
I have to lighten up? One throw away comment and four responses getting all defensive about it, but I need to lighten up? Sheesh.
It's already been reported by Heyman that Hahn is looking for 5 "top prospects" in negotiations for Sale. We can probably take that to mean "Five young, cost controlled players who aren't too far away and have significant upside" so players like Benintendi, Swihart, Eduardo Rodriguez, Kopech, etc. The only two relevant questions are 1) Is Hahn really only willing to accept an overpay? or 2) Is Dombrowki willing to offer and overpay to get Sale?
I suspect the answers are "Yes" and "No" respectively, but we'll see soon enough. Personally, I'd rather offer slightly less and get Quintana for one more year of control, but I'm not convinced Hahn is looking at Quintana as a less valuable asset.
Speier during the game yesterday, hypothesis that Hahn is going to want one piece that is major league ready. Specifically he was referring to one of the B's. So the question might be are you willing to give up Moncada/AB plus one of the B's plus assorted prospects.
I think AB is actually major league ready. Can't hurt to give him a shot right now. Team needs an offensive injection with these close games.
Maybe I'm missing something but I can't see anything about their respective careers that would suggest that Quintana is as valuable an asset as Sale.
If he really wants one of the Bs plus big time prospects, he's not serious about trading him. Because that's about as realistic as offering Brian Johnson, Bryce Brentz, and Christian Vazquez.
With the extra year of control at even less money?
Sale: 3.5 years, roughly 42 million.
Quintana: 4.5 years, roughly 40 million.
Here's what they look like since the start of the 2013 season:
Is Sale better in a vacuum? Absolutely. But when you factor in salary and years of control, I think you can make a case for Quintana, especially if the price in trade chips is a little lower. If it's a difference between including both Benintendi and Devers for Sale or Benintendi and a lesser prospect (with the rest of the packages being the same), I'd much prefer to do that.
My addition says 20 WAR for Sale, but I guess Quintana is better than I thought.
So if the salaries and control make them so comparable, and you think that Hahn sees it that way, then why do you think that the trade chips will be lower for Quintana?