Pitching Targets

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That seems stupid. I'd think Miller would bring back a decent package what with the years of control left. Of course, if I were the Yankees, I'd be in complete firesale mode.
As hard as it is for the Yankees to admit that they aren't winning anything this year, I don't think they're ready to talk about a several year rebuilding process. Even if they should be. Getting rid of Miller would signal that.
 

jon abbey

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Actually it's pretty smart if Rosenthal is right, as you maximize the value for Chapman and still have a week or so to move Miller if someone blows you away.
 

E5 Yaz

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Actually it's pretty smart if Rosenthal is right, as you maximize the value for Chapman and still have a week or so to move Miller if someone blows you away.
Agreed, and as was said earlier, there's a great chance he's returning as a FA next season
 

YTF

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Been talk about Sale, wondering what it would take to get Jose Quintana. Rodriquez, one of Swihart/Vasquez plus? IF DD acquires another starter someone is going to be displaced. Rodriquez may make the most sense as far as potential and cost control for other teams. Him and a catcher plus also works as far as hanging on to the prospects that The Sox don't want to part with.
 

Rasputin

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Actually it's pretty smart if Rosenthal is right, as you maximize the value for Chapman and still have a week or so to move Miller if someone blows you away.
Two things.

One, being willing to trade Miller if someone blows you away is pretty much the complete opposite of not trading him.

Two, they shouldn't have to be blown away. They should accept the best offer they get on Miller by the deadline. They should accept the best offer they get on Chapman by the deadline. They should accept the best offer they get on Carlos Beltran. I'm not intimately familiar with the Yankee roster but if there is anyone who isn't controlled for several years that anyone is willing to give up real prospects for, the Yankees should do it.

They're mediocre with a farm system that is nothing special. They would be better, sooner, if they dumped major league talent for minor league talent.
 

Devizier

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Actually it's pretty smart if Rosenthal is right, as you maximize the value for Chapman and still have a week or so to move Miller if someone blows you away.
I agree with this; also, it's amazing how quickly the (to me, genuine) character concerns about Chapman evaporated during the midst of a pennant race.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Been talk about Sale, wondering what it would take to get Jose Quintana. Rodriquez, one of Swihart/Vasquez plus? IF DD acquires another starter someone is going to be displaced. Rodriquez may make the most sense as far as potential and cost control for other teams. Him and a catcher plus also works as far as hanging on to the prospects that The Sox don't want to part with.
I think Quintana is less likely to be available. If the White Sox are going to deal one of their incredible young reasonably-priced and controlled starting pitchers, I'd guess Sale is more likely because a.) his return is likely to be somewhat higher for a team in GFIN mode, b.) he is controlled for a year less than Quintana, and at higher cost, and (less likely) c.) Throwback-gate.

Sale is owed something like 42.5MM/3.5 years remaining on his deal, while Quintana is owed around 38MM/4.5. As a result largely of that extra year, Quintana still lands at an impressive #26 (and trending up) on Cameron's trade value list, while Sale, with his admittedly superior track record, is #15 (and trending down). Quintana is essentially tied with Moncada and JBJ, a dozen spots ahead of Benintendi. More relevantly, if the White Sox decided to move him and the Cameron list is relevant, you'd have to expect Benintendi would be likely to be involved, or at least Devers++. EdRo/Swihart feels very light.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Let me throw another name out there (don't think I've seen him in the thread to date): Kelvin Herrera. Having a ridiculous year with 1.65 ERA, 0.85 WHIP, and 54/7 BB/K across 44 IP.

KC is wandering into sell mode, and has a "bonafide closer" in Wade Davis with another year on his contract at $10MM (option, against a $2.5MM buyout). Kelvin has two years of control left, but they're both arb years so that might get relatively pricey.

The more logical move for the Royals is probably to trade Davis, but I think it's worth knocking on the door with interest in Herrera, who would slide nicely into the 8th inning in 2016-17-18. Lines up Ziegler/Kelvin/Kimbrel (as I wouldn't be comfortable relying on Carson Smith).

Prospect cost certainly shouldn't have to include any of the remaining big three. Kopech would kind of resemble the Pomeranz trade -- a future prospect (closer to MLB than Espinoza but with a lower ceiling) for 2+ years of an All-Star pitcher. [Of course, resembling the Pomeranz trade might be a reason not to pursue this path -- dealing Espinoza was more palatable precisely because of the presence of Kopech.]

The bullpen may not be the greatest need for the Red Sox once Kimbrel returns, but given the challenges of improving the rotation lengthening the bullpen is another way to go.
 
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Tyrone Biggums

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Let me throw another name out there (don't think I've seen him in the thread to date): Kelvin Herrera. Having a ridiculous year with 1.65 ERA, 0.85 WHIP, and 54/7 BB/K across 44 IP.

KC is wandering into sell mode, and has a "bonafide closer" in Wade Davis with another year on his contract at $10MM (option, against a $2.5MM buyout). Kelvin has two years of control left, but they're both arb years so that might get relatively pricey.

The more logical move for the Royals is probably to trade Davis, but I think it's worth knocking on the door with interest in Herrera, who would slide nicely into the 8th inning in 2016-17-18. Lines up Ziegler/Kelvin/Kimbrel (as I wouldn't be comfortable relying on Carson Smith).

Prospect cost certainly shouldn't have to include any of the remaining big three. Kopech would kind of resemble the Pomeranz trade -- a future prospect (closer to MLB than Espinoza but with a lower ceiling) for 2+ years of an All-Star pitcher. [Of course, resembling the Pomeranz trade might be a reason not to pursue this path -- dealing Espinoza was more palatable precisely because of the presence of Kopech.]

The bullpen may not be the greatest need for the Red Sox once Kimbrel returns, but given the challenges of improving the rotation lengthening the bullpen is another way to go.
What reasoning would the Royals have to trade either player? Even if they are selling the price for either player would be astronomical. Not willing to pay Devers or any of the other big guns for an 8th inning arm.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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What reasoning would the Royals have to trade either player? Even if they are selling the price for either player would be astronomical. Not willing to pay Devers or any of the other big guns for an 8th inning arm.
If they're optimistic about Greg Holland coming back next year, they have some depth to trade from and their farm system is considered subpar (#23 per Keith Law). I think they'd prefer to unload Soria but doubt there'd be much of return for him as he's mediocre and has a lot of money left on his deal. And, as noted above, they'd probably be smarter to move Davis than Herrera...but both those guys have been spitballed in rumors columns like this one: http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/knuckleball-news/defending-champion-royals-considering-selling-pieces-deadline/ [yeah, Jon Heyman, I know], and this one: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/2016-mlb-trade-deadline-rumors-royals-considering-selling-at-trade-deadline/.

I wouldn't include Devers either for bullpen depth ("Prospect cost certainly shouldn't have to include any of the remaining big three"). And the Royals don't need an MLB-ready catcher like Swihart. I threw out the idea of Kopech, although that's obviously a high price too. Not sure if three dimes (Owens/Chavis/Marerro) for a quarter gets you there.
 
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Tyrone Biggums

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If they're optimistic about Greg Holland coming back next year, they have some depth to trade from and their farm system is considered subpar (#23 per Keith Law). I think they'd prefer to unload Soria but doubt there'd be much of return for him as he's mediocre and has a lot of money left on his deal. And, as noted above, they'd probably be smarter to move Davis than Herrera...but both those guys have been spitballed in rumors columns like this one: http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/knuckleball-news/defending-champion-royals-considering-selling-pieces-deadline/ [yeah, Jon Heyman, I know], and this one: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/2016-mlb-trade-deadline-rumors-royals-considering-selling-at-trade-deadline/.

I wouldn't include Devers either for bullpen depth ("Prospect cost certainly shouldn't have to include any of the remaining big three"). And the Royals don't need an MLB-ready catcher like Swihart. I threw out the idea of Kopech, although that's obviously a high price too. Not sure if three dimes (Owens/Chavis/Marerro) for a quarter gets you there.
If it was just Owens sure. But I have a feeling that if the Sox offered that trio Moore would continue to laugh uncontrollably for 30 minutes before saying no. Kopech is way too much.

Something I read that is interesting...Drew Storen was just DFAed. Granted he's been horrible this year but might be worth kicking the tires on when the alternative is Noe Ramirez.
 

pjheff

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Something I read that is interesting...Drew Storen was just DFAed. Granted he's been horrible this year but might be worth kicking the tires on when the alternative is Noe Ramirez.
If the team were out of contention, Storen would be an interesting rehabilitation project. At the same time, outside of Wright, it's hard to name one pitcher on the staff who has outperformed his pedigree under the tutelage of Farrell and Willis this season. Maybe Pedroia has seen something that can be corrected.
 

In my lifetime

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If the team were out of contention, Storen would be an interesting rehabilitation project. At the same time, outside of Wright, it's hard to name one pitcher on the staff who has outperformed his pedigree under the tutelage of Farrell and Willis this season. Maybe Pedroia has seen something that can be corrected.
Not really that hard ----
Porcello has outperformed expectations of 98% of this board to the point where prior to April, most considered his extension a terrible deal and now it is beginning to look like an under-market deal.

Wright has shattered expectations.

EdRo - looks like he is coming around after recovery from knee issues. But still too early to judge.

Barnes has performed better than most expected

Negatives
Price - underwhelming for an supposed ace.
Clay and Kelly - enough said


Not sure anything much was expected
Hembree
Layne
The AAA fill in 5th starters


Incomplete due to injuries or recently acquired:
Most of the rest of the pen
New pick ups


So I don't think the coaching staff have been miracle workers, I also don't think they have been terrible.
 

pdub

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Brian Bilek, a White Sox reporter, is saying he expects us to have the best offer for Robertson + Quintana. Supposedly LAD is also in the hunt. How does this deal get done without not shipping off at least Benintendi ++? I'm starting to believe Moncada and Groome will be all that's left very soon - if at all.
 

E5 Yaz

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Edit: Double post, apologies! Was getting a 504 error and it resulted in this.
Tip: When you get the 504 Error, just go back to the main page and re-open the thread. Sometimes it takes a moment, but most of the time your post has been recorded
 

soxhop411

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Brian Bilek, a White Sox reporter, is saying he expects us to have the best offer for Robertson + Quintana. Supposedly LAD is also in the hunt. How does this deal get done without not shipping off at least Benintendi ++? I'm starting to believe Moncada and Groome will be all that's left very soon - if at all.
“@BrianBilek_: Source says not to rule out a mega deal with #RedSox acquiring both David Roberston and Jose Quintana. #Dodgers hot on Quintana as well.”


“@BrianBilek_: As reported earlier by @barstoolWSD, this source offered secondary confirmation that #RedSox have serious interest in David Robertson.”

“@BrianBilek_: #RedSox Dave Dombrowksi is living up to his reputation. One in the know expects his offer to best #Dodgers offer in Quintana sweepstakes.”


This guy?
 

OptimusPapi

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Brian Bilek, a White Sox reporter, is saying he expects us to have the best offer for Robertson + Quintana. Supposedly LAD is also in the hunt. How does this deal get done without not shipping off at least Benintendi ++? I'm starting to believe Moncada and Groome will be all that's left very soon - if at all.
Just to be clear I am not a fan of trading Benintendi, but I will play devil's advocate. Suppose we get Quintana and Roberson for something like Bennitendi, Erod, Swihart and some assorted pieces. I am going to guess that DD will want a three day negotiating window to try to extend Quintana. All those pieces for a year and a half of Quintana makes no sense. I am going to also assume DD will go hard after Bautista if Bennitendi is traded. So for the foreseeable future our lineup is:
Betts
Pedroia
Bogey
Bautista
Ramirez
JBJ
Shaw
Moncada
Catcher
Our starting rotation would be:
Price
Quintana
Wright
Porcello
Pomeranz
The bullpen would have:
Smith
Kimbrel
Robertson
Barnes
That is a pretty good team on paper right there. That being said there is too many unknowns in this scenario. Can the Sox extend Quintana? Will they be able to get Bautista or some other suitable left field replacement? Is there realistically anyway this deal can be consummated without including Moncada, Devers and Kopech? I hope this rumor is not true but I guess stranger things have happen.
 

RedOctober3829

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Just to be clear I am not a fan of trading Benintendi, but I will play devil's advocate. Suppose we get Quintana and Roberson for something like Bennitendi, Erod, Swihart and some assorted pieces. I am going to guess that DD will want a three day negotiating window to try to extend Quintana. All those pieces for a year and a half of Quintana makes no sense. I am going to also assume DD will go hard after Bautista if Bennitendi is traded. So for the foreseeable future our lineup is:
Betts
Pedroia
Bogey
Bautista
Ramirez
JBJ
Shaw
Moncada
Catcher
Our starting rotation would be:
Price
Quintana
Wright
Porcello
Pomeranz
The bullpen would have:
Smith
Kimbrel
Robertson
Barnes
That is a pretty good team on paper right there. That being said there is too many unknowns in this scenario. Can the Sox extend Quintana? Will they be able to get Bautista or some other suitable left field replacement? Is there realistically anyway this deal can be consummated without including Moncada, Devers and Kopech? I hope this rumor is not true but I guess stranger things have happen.
Quintana is under team control through the 2020 season. They don't need to extend him.
 

Lavinius

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Quintana is under team control through 2020 ('19 and '20 team option).

I'm all for a trade as long as Moncada and Betts/JBJ/Bogey aren't involved.

Edit: RedOctober quicker on the draw
 

pjheff

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Not really that hard ----
Porcello has outperformed expectations of 98% of this board to the point where prior to April, most considered his extension a terrible deal and now it is beginning to look like an under-market deal.
I didn't say "expectations." I deliberately used the word "pedigree." And while Porcello has undoubtedly pitched better than last year, I don't think that he is appreciably better than he was during his last year in Detroit.

Wright has shattered expectations.
I did use the caveat "outside of Wright" in my post, and I'm not sure how much of his success can be attributed to Farrell or Willis.

EdRo - looks like he is coming around after recovery from knee issues. But still too early to judge.
EdRo is 2-4 with a 6.70 ERA this season with continuing mechanical issues and whispers of pitch tipping. I'd have a hard time making the argument that he has outperformed his pedigree.

Barnes has performed better than most expected
Barnes has pitched well, but he's a former #19 overall draft selection who played college ball and five years later is a 6th-7th inning reliever. I don't see that performance as a big success story for the coaching staff.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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“@BrianBilek_: Source says not to rule out a mega deal with #RedSox acquiring both David Roberston and Jose Quintana. #Dodgers hot on Quintana as well.”


“@BrianBilek_: As reported earlier by @barstoolWSD, this source offered secondary confirmation that #RedSox have serious interest in David Robertson.”

“@BrianBilek_: #RedSox Dave Dombrowksi is living up to his reputation. One in the know expects his offer to best #Dodgers offer in Quintana sweepstakes.”


This guy?
I'm starting to think we will never see AB or Moncada dawn a Red Sox uniform.
 

Marciano490

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Robertson hasn't had his best year, though his numbers aren't as ugly as they look at first glance, being inflated by ugly innings amid stretches of dominance. He's a really high character guy and his wife is a MA native (they met when he played in the CCL ), so I imagine he'd integrate quickly into the team and community.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Well, maybe after they hit free agency
Agreed. And when of course the Sox will have the privledge of paying 30 million a year of course. Those are chips you pony up for JoFer or someone like that. Not for freaking Quintana.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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Agreed. And when of course the Sox will have the privledge of paying 30 million a year of course. Those are chips you pony up for JoFer or someone like that. Not for freaking Quintana.
Given health concerns and control, I'd rather they traded for Quintana over Fernandez, all else being equal.
 

soxhop411

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Robertson hasn't had his best year, though his numbers aren't as ugly as they look at first glance, being inflated by ugly innings amid stretches of dominance. He's a really high character guy and his wife is a MA native (they met when he played in the CCL ), so I imagine he'd integrate quickly into the team and community.

Just gave up back to back HRs in the 9th to blow the save. Perhaps he is hurt.
 

E5 Yaz

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Robertson hasn't had his best year, though his numbers aren't as ugly as they look at first glance, being inflated by ugly innings amid stretches of dominance. He's a really high character guy and his wife is a MA native (they met when he played in the CCL ), so I imagine he'd integrate quickly into the team and community.
Just gave up back to back HRs in the 9th to blow the save. Perhaps he is hurt.
Three solo homers
If they trade a high-level prospect for this, I might not be happy
 

LesterFan

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Robertson is also still owed $25 million over two years after this season. No way they're trading a top prospect for him unless it's part of a bigger deal involving Sale/Quintana.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Robertson had made 18 pitches finishing off a suspended game earlier in teh day. Ventura sending him out again was dumb.
 

Hee Sox Choi

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Fernando Rodney did it earlier this year in May: Rodney recorded saves in both ends of Wednesday's doubleheader against the Cubs, pitching a scoreless inning each time and working around a hit in the latter outing.
 

Hee Sox Choi

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Robertson seems like more of a salary dump than having to pony up any real talent for. A quote from Rotoworld: If the White Sox can find a team to take on his contract ahead of the August 1 trade deadline, they should probably pull the trigger.

16:$11M, 17:$12M, 18:$13M
 

AB in DC

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Something I read that is interesting...Drew Storen was just DFAed. Granted he's been horrible this year but might be worth kicking the tires on when the alternative is Noe Ramirez.
Storen has undeniable talent but he's a total head case. Maybe the change in scenery will do him some good.
 

AB in DC

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Storen's Washington numbers were solid -- FIP around 3.00, WHIP around 1.15 for his last three years. The problem was that he couldn't handle the pressure of being a closer. If he gets his head screwed on straight, he can still be a quality set-up guy.
 

czar

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Storen's Washington numbers were solid -- FIP around 3.00, WHIP around 1.15 for his last three years. The problem was that he couldn't handle the pressure of being a closer. If he gets his head screwed on straight, he can still be a quality set-up guy.
LOLWUT?

Storen career in the 9th inning: 157/39 K/BB, 3.23 ERA, 98 saves.

You must be thinking of someone else.
 

ji oh

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Brian Bilek, a White Sox reporter, is saying he expects us to have the best offer for Robertson + Quintana. Supposedly LAD is also in the hunt. How does this deal get done without not shipping off at least Benintendi ++? I'm starting to believe Moncada and Groome will be all that's left very soon - if at all.
This guy is not a "White Sox reporter." He's a full-time CPA who writes for a blog. https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-bilek-0b577ba7
 

grimshaw

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If taking on Robertson's contract means not having to give up another second tier prospect like Basabe (who I bet starts to creep into the top #100 next year), then I'm ok with it.
Though Basabe may be their most expendable good chip if they don't move Benintendi.
 

Maximus

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DD will be in play for the Quintana and Robertson combo and will stay in play if they decide to move Sale. As we all know the FA market for pitchers is terrible this year so his deadline moves will also strategically impact 2017. Pitchers are clearly the target for now and 2017. If they need to give up Benintendi in this type of deal, they can sign a FA bat. Moncada is the primary untouchable for me with Kopech and Groome not far behind.
 

soxhop411

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“@jaysonst: Clubs talking with Red Sox say they’re still trying to do ”something big.“ But for what high-end starter? Chris Sale? Sonny Gray? Mystery P?”