Dwight Howard to Atlanta

DJnVa

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Like I said I don't have a firm opinion. My one thing that has stuck to me is that ever since that injury, he's not the ironman he used to be, especially during his LA year when he was dragged to the game even though he wasn't himself.

Looking at this basketball reference page, I see that his FT% has dropped from the 60s during the first part of his career to the 50s after that. Also, most advanced stats like PER, WS, BPM show a dropoff from his peak in Orlando. Last but not least, his shooting less might be a result of him getting less touches -which is pretty likely a factor thanks to Harden but also it could be because he can't create the same type of shots he used to be able to create.
Gotcha, thanks.

And sure, as a big man who's turned 30 I would say that his numbers falling from his mid-20s peak is perfectly understandable. But him shooting less (while still hitting a good percentage) shows that he understands that his game has changed. If he still wants to get paid like he's 25 and completely healthy then no thanks, but the guy can still play and his rate stats have been pretty damn consistent.
 

reggiecleveland

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If you can close your eyes to the wasted potential, and look at the results you get from the guy, I guess.

If he is getting the money of role playing guy. It all depends on way the coaches feel he will affect the other guys.

I sure don't see him fitting with the tough guy, work ethic, group they have assembled. IT did have problems before coming to Boston, but few doubted he played hard.
 
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moly99

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Dwight Howard has never averaged 15 shots a game in his career, so while he may *want* to do this, he's somehow played 12 seasons in the NBA and never averaged more than 13.4 (and hitting nearly 60% of them) per game.
I meant shots + trips to the free throw line. He gets hacked on a lot of his touches.

And yes, he was obviously unhappy at his share of the offensive load in Houston. I think he clearly wants what he had in Orlando in 2010-2011 and 2011-2012.
 

mauf

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Beyond that, though, he does not want to buy into the team's needs instead of his own. He is a great pick and roll player, but he hates doing it. Instead he wants 15+ shots per game in the low post while his teammates stand around and watch.

And for me that is the concern about signing him, rather than the money. If he agrees to give what he can on defense, set screens and be a roll man then he could be a great fit for a role we are desperate to fill. If he wants to sign in Boston to be the biggest name on the Celtics' marquee then I don't want him on the team.
The knock on Howard in his prime wasn't that he shot too much; it was that he didn't use his physical superiority to dominate on the offensive end and instead deferred to his mostly mediocre teammates. That trait will probably keep him out of Springfield, but it might make for a smooth transition to a second act as a valuable role player. I wouldn't bet $100mm on that, but I'd certainly give him a well-paid, one-year audition.
 

moly99

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The knock on Howard in his prime wasn't that he shot too much; it was that he didn't use his physical superiority to dominate on the offensive end and instead deferred to his mostly mediocre teammates.
Well, many fans may think that but I don't have a problem with what he did with the Magic. They played four out in Orlando with Dwight used to generate open looks for his teammates. And it worked really well. Any system that makes Hedo Turkoglu look like a great player deserves plaudits.
 

Nick Kaufman

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I think it was the opposite. Van Gundy had built an inside outside game, but Howard was complaining he wasn't getting enough touches. No?
 

DJnVa

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While I did speak in a positive manner about Dwight earlier, lock this thread and get Horford.
 

BigSoxFan

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So, about Howard not getting $20M / year...

That was silly talk given the market.
 

moly99

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I think it was the opposite. Van Gundy had built an inside outside game, but Howard was complaining he wasn't getting enough touches. No?
Well, both are true. They had Rashard Lewis at power forward to create more space for Dwight in the post, and the defense collapsing on Dwight meant there was space for guys like Lewis and Turkoglu to hit open threes. All great offenses are built around some kind of "pick your poison" combo.

As for Dwight being unhappy with touches, of course that's true and that's why I would worry about him signing with Boston. Even in Orlando when he was the first option on offense he wanted more touches. Since then he has openly feuded with teammates and coaches.

Hopefully this means that Al Horford wants to sign with Boston. I can't understand why the Hawks would sign Dwight Howard if they still had a chance at re-signing Horford.
 
Well, both are true. They had Rashard Lewis at power forward to create more space for Dwight in the post, and the defense collapsing on Dwight meant there was space for guys like Lewis and Turkoglu to hit open threes. All great offenses are built around some kind of "pick your poison" combo.

As for Dwight being unhappy with touches, of course that's true and that's why I would worry about him signing with Boston. Even in Orlando when he was the first option on offense he wanted more touches. Since then he has openly feuded with teammates and coaches.

Hopefully this means that Al Horford wants to sign with Boston. I can't understand why the Hawks would sign Dwight Howard if they still had a chance at re-signing Horford.
For Horford to stay in Atlanta, the Hawks probably have to offer five years; Howard is only getting three years. That's your answer. Also, it's not like Horford has thrived in the playoffs for Atlanta; Horford/Millsap has never really looked like a title-winning core, and interior defense plus rebounding has been non-existent in the Budenholzer era. (Go back and check the game threads from the Hawks-Celtics series, or the general summaries of the Hawks-Cavs series, and you'll see a lot more negativity about the idea of the Celtics acquiring Horford than I'm seeing now.)

What is the best coaching environment Howard has ever been in? Probably Stan Van Gundy with the Magic, right? I'm guessing his attitude under Budenholzer, or what it would have been under Stevens, might be a touch better than it was under the likes of McHale or D'Antoni.
 

Ed Hillel

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You won't say that when you see who they sign if they miss out on Horford. Hopefully we never find out.
Maybe, but it could be they are just better punting another season, taking minor strides, and having cap space for next year. It's not the instant payoff everybody wants, but it's really the only way to win big in the NBA.
 

mauf

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Maybe, but it could be they are just better punting another season, taking minor strides, and having cap space for next year. It's not the instant payoff everybody wants, but it's really the only way to win big in the NBA.
Yup. A max-money contract for a guy who isn't a game-changer has the potential to spoil an opportunity to get a real game-changer down the road. I was down with a one-year deal with DH if he wanted to reestablish his value for a richer deal next summer; since that's not what he wanted, I'm glad he's going elsewhere. I'm not interested in Horford unless it's part of landing a marquee guy.
 

moondog80

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Maybe, but it could be they are just better punting another season, taking minor strides, and having cap space for next year. It's not the instant payoff everybody wants, but it's really the only way to win big in the NBA.
And if by next year they still haven't filled the cap space with someone as good as Howard, then what? It's really, really hard to get good players to switch teams in the NBA. I'm not sure they'll have the chance to fill the space with anyone better than Howard in the next three years. Cap space is only helpful when you use it. Hopefully I'm wrong.
 

Bergs

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And if by next year they still haven't filled the cap space with someone as good as Howard, then what? It's really, really hard to get good players to switch teams in the NBA. I'm not sure they'll have the chance to fill the space with anyone better than Howard in the next three years. Cap space is only helpful when you use it. Hopefully I'm wrong.
What your otherwise clever analysis misses is the whole "fuck Dwight Howard" thing.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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And if by next year they still haven't filled the cap space with someone as good as Howard, then what? It's really, really hard to get good players to switch teams in the NBA. I'm not sure they'll have the chance to fill the space with anyone better than Howard in the next three years. Cap space is only helpful when you use it. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Signing mediocre players to expensive deals because you can is a terrible strategy.
 

BigMike

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Several years too late.

Honestly there was a time where Dwight Howard could have owned Atlanta.
 

mauf

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Several years too late.

Honestly there was a time where Dwight Howard could have owned Atlanta.
He's past his prime, but he's in the best situation for his talents that he's had since his peak Orlando days. He can make that Hawks team a lot better by protecting the rim, crashing the boards, and taking advantage of the occasional mismatch in the post -- all stuff that even his diminished self should be able to do, provided he's reasonably healthy.

Of course, his desire and his health are both open questions, which is why I'm glad the C's passed on making a long-term commitment, but this has the potential to be a great move for the Hawks.
 
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He's past his prime, but he's in the best situation for his talents that he's had since his peak Orlando days. He can make that Hawks team a lot better by protecting the rim, crashing the boards, and taking advantage of the occasional mismatch in the post -- all stuff that even his diminished self should be able to do, provided he's reasonably healthy.

Of course, his desire and his health are both open questions, which is why I'm glad the C's passed on making a long-term commitment, but this has the potential to be a great move for the Hawks.
Yep, this is where I am. (As a Hawks fan.)