Dwight Howard to Atlanta

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Split from the Trade Rumors thread...

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Howard would mean rim protection, inside bulk, big rebounds, and temper tantrums... all absent from the 2015-2016 Celtics.
 

Bergs

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I really don't want to be put in a position where I have to root for Dwight Howard.
 

Cellar-Door

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I don't dislike Dwight, he seems like a decent guy who made one bad decision and has gotten screwed by it. He took heat in LA and HOU because fans couldn't blame Kobe and Harden despite both being much bigger contributors to those teams' failures.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Pour some of Mark Blount's finest port out for the lurker formerly known as Brickowski if Dwight ends up here.

Does this help or hurt the Durant sweepstakes?
Well Durant did very publicly call Howard a pussy, but I don't know that on-court shit talking should be taken as anything more than that. Regardless, strong signs today pointing towards Durant staying in OKC.
 

mauf

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Howard on a one-year deal that only costs money would be a coup. He needs to prove himself to be an unselfish player to get the long-term agreement he wants, and the C's would be a much better team in 2016-17 (maybe 3rd best in the East) with a motivated DH protecting the rim.
 

amfox1

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Does this help or hurt the Durant sweepstakes?
It's irrelevant. They won't sign Howard until KD's weekend in Montauk ends. If KD wants to sign in BOS, he'll decide the issue for Danny. If he goes back to OKC, as expected, they may try to get a sense of his feelings toward Howard but most likely they'll push for a 1+1 deal with Howard so that they can jettison Howard next year, if necessary.
 
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Ed Hillel

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I'm ok with Howard for 1-2 years, and could probably be talked into 3. If he comes the same year they banish "hack-a-Xxxxx," even better. He does fill a need that is not easily filled. If they could land Durant, I think that puts them as serious contenders with Howard. A theoretical Thompson/Howard battle in the playoffs would be kind of fun to watch.
 

DJnVa

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I really can't have an opinion until terms are rumored. There are ways this could be pretty decent or pretty fucking horrible.

You're welcome for that contribution.
 

RG33

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Count me on board with Dwight if it is a short term deal. I think he brings a lot of what this teams needs with rebounding and rim protection, and am confident in both Coach Stevens and this roster that he can acclimate himself fine. I would assume (and hope like hell) they don't do anything though until they get final word on what KD is doing though -- that seems pretty obvious.
 

BigSoxFan

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Count me on board with Dwight if it is a short term deal. I think he brings a lot of what this teams needs with rebounding and rim protection, and am confident in both Coach Stevens and this roster that he can acclimate himself fine. I would assume (and hope like hell) they don't do anything though until they get final word on what KD is doing though -- that seems pretty obvious.
My feeling is that Dwight is a Durant Plan B. Either we hit the jackpot and land the Durant/Horford combo or we settle for Howard on a short deal and try again next summer. Not really sure what Plan C would be.
 

Statman

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My feeling is that Dwight is a Durant Plan B. Either we hit the jackpot and land the Durant/Horford combo or we settle for Howard on a short deal and try again next summer. Not really sure what Plan C would be.
Bulpett suggests that Plan C is Timofey Mozgov and Ian Mahinmi . I would puke if we did something that stupid as both players would likely cost us upwards of $10M per season to sign. I'd rather just keep Johnson and take our chances with Mickey and Zizic as his backup.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2016/06/bulpett_celtics_ready_to_make_a_run_at_kevin_durant_al_horford
 

Cellar-Door

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Bulpett suggests that Plan C is Timofey Mozgov and Ian Mahinmi . I would puke if we did something that stupid as both players would likely cost us upwards of $10M per season to sign. I'd rather just keep Johnson and take our chances with Mickey and Zizic as his backup.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2016/06/bulpett_celtics_ready_to_make_a_run_at_kevin_durant_al_horford
Won't be Zizic, he's definitely not coming over it seems (isn't going to be on SL team), but yeah, the thought of paying market for multiple years of either of those guys is distressing.
 

BaseballJones

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I'm not a Howard fan, but he does offer rebounding and rim protection and a physical presence underneath. His decline in scoring can be attributed almost directly to taking fewer shots per game. He shoots at basically 60%.

2013-14: 11.3 FGA, 9.0 FTA,18.3 PPG
2014-15: 10.3 FGA, 6.6 FTA, 15.8 PPG
2015-16: 8.5 FGA, 6.7 FTA, 13.7 PPG

If he took 10 FGA a game, that would have ranked him tied for fourth on the team this past season, behind Thomas (16.9), Bradley (13.4), and Crowder (11.1), and tied with Sullinger (10.0). Assuming Sully is gone, Howard basically replaces him. And he's much better than Sullinger is. Yes I know they play different positions. I'm just talking mostly about touches and FGA and production.

And if Howard gets 10 FGA a game, and, say, 7 FTA a game, we're talking about a 15-16 point-per-game scorer on the interior. They haven't had anything like that since KG averaged 15.8 PPG in 2011-12.

Geez, am I talking myself into wanting Dwight Howard on the Celtics???
 

BigSoxFan

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Bulpett suggests that Plan C is Timofey Mozgov and Ian Mahinmi . I would puke if we did something that stupid as both players would likely cost us upwards of $10M per season to sign. I'd rather just keep Johnson and take our chances with Mickey and Zizic as his backup.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2016/06/bulpett_celtics_ready_to_make_a_run_at_kevin_durant_al_horford
Yeah - not interested in guys like that at all. Would rather do nothing and try again in 2017.
 

moondog80

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How much more valuable does Howard become if the league institutes an anti-hacking rule?
 

JCizzle

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Who knows if it carries over, but hasn't he been surprisingly reflective and candid about the need to change moving forward since his interview on TNT a couple months ago? I'm more on board with him now than I was at the trade deadline.
 

E5 Yaz

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When Dwight Howard starts having his free agent meetings on Friday he'll be seeking a contract starting at $24 million a season according to a source.
 

Blacken

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I could see him getting $24 on a one-year deal, but right now his value is pretty low (though IMO recoverable). Then again, there's a lot of cap floating around, so this is all dart-board stuff.
 

Cellar-Door

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I wonder if his value is really low though, or that's just fan nonsense. Based on performance he's one of the better players on the market, and his stats from last season probably undervalue him if the Hack a rules get changed as expected.
 

cardiacs

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Isn't the problem with Howard that his body is broken down and he can't move around or get good position underneath anymore? I don't want any part of him if this is true.
 

Koufax

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On the radio yesterday someone said that other players don't like him; and an unnamed NBA coach was quotes as saying that he'd rather play a team with 4 players on the court than play Dwight Howard.
 

DJnVa

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Isn't the problem with Howard that his body is broken down and he can't move around or get good position underneath anymore? I don't want any part of him if this is true.
I don't know, but his rebounds per 36 minutes were above his career average, he shot better from the floor this past season than any season before, his DRtg per basketballref was higher than ever before, in 2010 he led the NBA in 2P% at .617. He shot better this year (.626), etc. And if the Hack-A-Shaq rules get changed, who knows?

There's a lot to like there if we get past all the "drama".
 

moondog80

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All the concerns about Howard are valid. But Timofey Mozgov just got 64 mil. Joakim Noah -- same age as Howard and just as injury prone, if not moreso -- got 72 mil. So assuming Horford is plan A, what's plan B if not Howard?
 

Koufax

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I'm not informed enough about Howard to have an opinion but the fact that the pay scale just exploded has nothing to do with whether Howard is a good choice for the Celtics. Yes, whoever they sign (if they sign anybody) will appear to be a huge overpay, but that doesn't mean you have to sign someone who would poison the locker room.
 

moondog80

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So then what's the next move if not Howard (and you don't get Horford)?
 

DJnVa

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Mahinmi on a 2-3 year deal - he can pick-and-roll, he can pass, he provides some rim protection and rebounding.
If he doesn't stay in Indy, Mavs might overpay him after losing out on Whiteside.
 

Nick Kaufman

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an unnamed NBA coach was quotes as saying that he'd rather play a team with 4 players on the court than play Dwight Howard.
So Stan Van Gundy is still holding a grudge!

Other than that, I have no firm opinion, but I remember that during his free agency year on Orlando he was having a monster year, until he got injured in a game against the Sixers I believe. I think he hasn't been the same since.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Certainly possible, but he's already played for (and was traded from) DAL.
That was 5 years ago when the Mavericks were losing all of their backcourt depth so trading for Darren Collison was more for roster balance as Collison ended up starting 50 games for them that year. Mahinmi is a far more developed player now than he was back then. The other thing is that Cuban's teams have always spent on big 5's dating back to Erick Dampier, Brendan Haywood, Dalembert, Chandler.....they even signed most heart surgery Eddy Curry a couple years ago.
 

HomeRunBaker

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There are only so many dumb teams out there. I'm not convinced Mosgov sets the market. I think he ends up an outlier, and the Lakers are just dumb.
Role playing 5's have ALWAYS gotten paid dating back to Jon Koncak and Jim McIlvaine....I don't see why this summer would be any different.
 

DJnVa

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So Stan Van Gundy is still holding a grudge!

Other than that, I have no firm opinion, but I remember that during his free agency year on Orlando he was having a monster year, until he got injured in a game against the Sixers I believe. I think he hasn't been the same since.
In what way?

His rate stats are actually pretty consistent, which the drop in scoring being attributed to less shooting, but he's shot a higher percentage. His rebounding in HOU per 36 minutes is more than it was in ORL, he's just playing a few less minutes per game. There's no huge drop-off in numbers except he shoots less.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Role playing 5's have ALWAYS gotten paid dating back to Jon Koncak and Jim McIlvaine....I don't see why this summer would be any different.
For sure. I don't doubt 5's like Mahinmi are going to get paid. I just don't think teams are going to look at Mozgov's deal and say "well, Mahinmi's better, so we need to pay him more."
 

HomeRunBaker

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For sure. I don't doubt 5's like Mahinmi are going to get paid. I just don't think teams are going to look at Mozgov's deal and say "well, Mahinmi's better, so we need to pay him more."
Agreed. The market for Ezeli, Biyombo, and Mahinmi seems fairly similar in the Mozgov range. I'd imagine the Zeller and Kardashian's are just a shade below around $10m
 

moly99

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I don't dislike Dwight, he seems like a decent guy who made one bad decision and has gotten screwed by it. He took heat in LA and HOU because fans couldn't blame Kobe and Harden despite both being much bigger contributors to those teams' failures.
Beyond that, though, he does not want to buy into the team's needs instead of his own. He is a great pick and roll player, but he hates doing it. Instead he wants 15+ shots per game in the low post while his teammates stand around and watch.

And for me that is the concern about signing him, rather than the money. If he agrees to give what he can on defense, set screens and be a roll man then he could be a great fit for a role we are desperate to fill. If he wants to sign in Boston to be the biggest name on the Celtics' marquee then I don't want him on the team.
 

DJnVa

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Beyond that, though, he does not want to buy into the team's needs instead of his own. He is a great pick and roll player, but he hates doing it. Instead he wants 15+ shots per game in the low post while his teammates stand around and watch.
Dwight Howard has never averaged 15 shots a game in his career, so while he may *want* to do this, he's somehow played 12 seasons in the NBA and never averaged more than 13.4 (and hitting nearly 60% of them) per game.

In his entire career, he's taken more than 15 shots in a game only 112 times. So, like 10 times a season he does what you claim he wants to do every game.
 

Nick Kaufman

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In what way?

His rate stats are actually pretty consistent, which the drop in scoring being attributed to less shooting, but he's shot a higher percentage. His rebounding in HOU per 36 minutes is more than it was in ORL, he's just playing a few less minutes per game. There's no huge drop-off in numbers except he shoots less.
Like I said I don't have a firm opinion. My one thing that has stuck to me is that ever since that injury, he's not the ironman he used to be, especially during his LA year when he was dragged to the game even though he wasn't himself.

Looking at this basketball reference page, I see that his FT% has dropped from the 60s during the first part of his career to the 50s after that. Also, most advanced stats like PER, WS, BPM show a dropoff from his peak in Orlando. Last but not least, his shooting less might be a result of him getting less touches -which is pretty likely a factor thanks to Harden but also it could be because he can't create the same type of shots he used to be able to create.
 

Cellar-Door

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Beyond that, though, he does not want to buy into the team's needs instead of his own. He is a great pick and roll player, but he hates doing it. Instead he wants 15+ shots per game in the low post while his teammates stand around and watch.

And for me that is the concern about signing him, rather than the money. If he agrees to give what he can on defense, set screens and be a roll man then he could be a great fit for a role we are desperate to fill. If he wants to sign in Boston to be the biggest name on the Celtics' marquee then I don't want him on the team.
I assume that you also didn't want IT? I mean he was a bench guy who shot his way out of two straight locker rooms because he wanted the ball.