No move means the player can't be waived or traded without his approval. No trade applies just to trades.
Bruins Free Agency Rumors and News
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
If the Bruins offer arbitration to 2 of their 3 RFA's they can use a secondary buyout window later in the summer (thanks Dom)
I hate buyouts; although Boston can probably survive losing about 1.2 million for 4 years
Craig Button @CraigJButton 48m48 minutes ago
In @NHL free agency you'll hear about offer sheets. Fact:Offer sheets as a means to acquire players has been a massive exercise in futility.
In @NHL free agency you'll hear about offer sheets. Fact:Offer sheets as a means to acquire players has been a massive exercise in futility.
No, but that helps set the market for Krug at a lower price than I had previously thought.
I think Dustin Penner is the only player to sign and offer sheet that wasn't matched. These things are generally an excersise in futility.
I guess threatening an offer sheet has been a tactic that has worked (Kessel, Hamilton, Saad....hmmm there seems to be a common thread among 2 of those players) but I don't think the Bruins can really effectively threaten one right now.
I guess threatening an offer sheet has been a tactic that has worked (Kessel, Hamilton, Saad....hmmm there seems to be a common thread among 2 of those players) but I don't think the Bruins can really effectively threaten one right now.
I'm confused. The biggest need the team has is a top pairing defenseman who can play defense, right? There is not one of those on the FA market? But there are a few RFA's, including this Trouba kid. He's not a stud, but he's a top pairing defense-first defenseman? And the cost is 4 first round picks? Haven't they made 6 first round selections over the past two years? Don't "we" think Sweeney is a bad draft-er? Do they have the cap space?
I defer to you (and cshea) because you obviously know way more about the game, and the team. But this seems... kinda simple to me. Sign Trouba, give up the 4 picks, lock up Krug and Marchand to extensions, and this team is back in Cup contention - right? Sweeney will just fuck up the first round picks anyway, right? I guess the risk is that some of the six guys he already drafted will not develop into the low-cost guys they'll need to fill out the roster while the expensive guys (Trouba, Krug, Marchand) play out their deals.
Can they get back to Cup contention without getting the top pairing defenseman? Does trading a core piece (Krejci?) for that defenseman make the team a Cup contender next season? Or does it shift the need from a top pairing defenseman to a first line center? Like I said, I'm confused. I'll hang up and listen.
Trouba is not a stud... yet. He has a lot of potential and would help normalize the defense a bit (i.e. pushing one of Miller/Quader out of the top 4).
The biggest (and only?) strength of this front office right now is drafting, so giving up 4 first rounders would sting quite a bit, but the amount of draft picks they've made over the last 2 drafts can help alleviate that sting a bit. However, going potentially 4 drafts without the ability to draft first round talent could be one of those long lasting regrets that sets the franchise back 5-10 years down the road.
I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but the past 2 drafts have, generally, been a success.
The biggest (and only?) strength of this front office right now is drafting, so giving up 4 first rounders would sting quite a bit, but the amount of draft picks they've made over the last 2 drafts can help alleviate that sting a bit. However, going potentially 4 drafts without the ability to draft first round talent could be one of those long lasting regrets that sets the franchise back 5-10 years down the road.
I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but the past 2 drafts have, generally, been a success.
Trouba is a legit top 4 right now and is a big heavy D with top 2 upside but hes not that now. It's a significant gamble to give up four first round picks for someone like that and I love this player. About the only thing I like about the Bruins front office right now is their scouting team. There have been some questionable picks but really the only first rounder that looks like a bust since the new scouting team took over in 2013 is Zboril, and he was the scratch consensus pick at that time. 4 first round picks is a dangerous thing to give up when the organization JUST learned the lesson about what a stretch of bad drafting can do to your salary cap.
I love Trouba, but I wouldn't do this.
I love Trouba, but I wouldn't do this.
And just for reference, here's Kirk's take on the last 2 drafts:I'm confused. The biggest need the team has is a top pairing defenseman who can play defense, right? There is not one of those on the FA market? But there are a few RFA's, including this Trouba kid. He's not a stud, but he's a top pairing defense-first defenseman? And the cost is 4 first round picks? Haven't they made 6 first round selections over the past two years? Don't "we" think Sweeney is a bad draft-er? Do they have the cap space?
I defer to you (and cshea) because you obviously know way more about the game, and the team. But this seems... kinda simple to me. Sign Trouba, give up the 4 picks, lock up Krug and Marchand to extensions, and this team is back in Cup contention - right? Sweeney will just fuck up the first round picks anyway, right? I guess the risk is that some of the six guys he already drafted will not develop into the low-cost guys they'll need to fill out the roster while the expensive guys (Trouba, Krug, Marchand) play out their deals.
Can they get back to Cup contention without getting the top pairing defenseman? Does trading a core piece (Krejci?) for that defenseman make the team a Cup contender next season? Or does it shift the need from a top pairing defenseman to a first line center? Like I said, I'm confused. I'll hang up and listen.
It's been a mixed back, but they have some very exciting prospects out of the last 2 drafts. The first round is the reason they get lower marks, but they've done a really good job in the later rounds. They reached on 2 guys (Shenyshen/Frederic) in the first round and one of those reaches seems to be working out really well (Shenyshen).
Drafting is not the issue with this front office.
First, thanks for the reply. I'm not a prospect guy, so a better team now is more interesting to me than prospects down the road. If Trouba fills a major need and they can count on picks-already-made to hopefully fill those low-cost 3rd and 4th line slots...why not pull the trigger and get Bergeron (et. al.) another chance a Cup? Worry about the next decade in the next decade. ;-)
Second, draft pick position is based on season results, no? So "Cup contenders" are drafting low - almost in the second round? Are those "first round picks" the same value as high first round picks? I'm a football (draft) guy, so in the sport I know best, a late first rounder is almost equivalent to a second round pick in most years. Hockey is different? I am wrong then. I just read all the stuff about how San Jose fucked the Bruins out of a first round pick by going deep in the playoffs and misinterpreted that as being about the value of the pick instead of.... something else?
Lastly, I get my Bruins information from this forum, talk radio (I know, I know but it's given a weight in the low single digits), and the local papers - if @The Four Peters says it, I take it as gospel. If I'm misrepresenting the opinion of the forum that Sweeney is crap at his job, I apologize. Perhaps I'm taking too literally all the various "reach" comments over Frederic? Maybe I should just read Kirk? Regardless, the idea that Sweeney sucks at his job isn't very hard to find, here. ;-)
ETA: I see "drafting is not the problem" above - and given that, I would do he calculus differently. If they only thing the current FO regime does well is draft, they probably shouldn't give up 4 1sts even if it makes them a more interesting team for me to watch next season.
I wouldn't go as far as saying this regime has drafted well. The jury is very much still out on that. From Pastrnak on, things *look* good, but we'll never know until some of the kids start playing in the NHL. I wouldn't give up the 4 picks for Trouba because I don't believe he alone moves them into contender status. They would need more moves, and shipping away 4 first round picks greatly limits their ability to do so. They would have no picks, so you'd be trading some prospects, while not replenishing this prospects back via the draft.
I'm all for trying to trade for Trouba right now at a more reasonable cost, but the Jets would have the Bruins over a barrel.
I'm all for trying to trade for Trouba right now at a more reasonable cost, but the Jets would have the Bruins over a barrel.
Yeah, stop doing both of the bolded right now. This board is actually pretty good- even most of the reactionary twats have good knowledge of the team and the league. There are some good differences of opinion too, so it creates a nice place to form your own opinion.
Kirk for prospects, Bean is good, I like Joe MacDonald too, although that may not be the most popular opinion.
Sure, the jury is still out, but despite all the bad press they've gotten over Debrusk, Senyshyn and Frederic these past two drafts, this team has created a pretty impressive stockpile out of the draft since 2014.
2014 - Pasta, Donato, Heinen, Bjork
2015 - Zboril, Debrusk, Senyshyn, Carlo, JFK, Lauzon, Vladar (who knows), Gabrielle
2016- McAvoy, Lindgren, Frederic
That is a lot of really good players, especially outside of the first round. You can debate whether or not they should have taken Connor or Barzal in the first round last year forever, but all you need to do is look back to pre 2014 drafts to see how empty and crappy those drafts looked even in their draft +1 years.
I think its safe to say they are an above average drafting team at this point and sacrificing all those picks would be disastrous for the long term health of the organization.
2014 - Pasta, Donato, Heinen, Bjork
2015 - Zboril, Debrusk, Senyshyn, Carlo, JFK, Lauzon, Vladar (who knows), Gabrielle
2016- McAvoy, Lindgren, Frederic
That is a lot of really good players, especially outside of the first round. You can debate whether or not they should have taken Connor or Barzal in the first round last year forever, but all you need to do is look back to pre 2014 drafts to see how empty and crappy those drafts looked even in their draft +1 years.
I think its safe to say they are an above average drafting team at this point and sacrificing all those picks would be disastrous for the long term health of the organization.
The problem with giving up the picks is that for one, Trouba realistically does not move the needle all that much for them this season and maybe next until he develops more. Secondly, the cap is going to be an ongoing concern. The only way to maintain a consistent level of competitiveness is to have a regular pipeline of ELC contracts to fill out the roster. Some picks have been head scratchers, but you can reasonably expect to get a few decent NHL roster players out of the 1st round over the next few years. They'd have to hit a very high rate on the later rounds to make up the lack of 1st rounders. I'd rather not mortgage the future so heavily on a move that won't put them over the top as a cup contender.
The prospect pool is certainly light years better now than it was 2 years ago, but there is still a good deal of uncertainty with the kids. I don't think that the current depth would justify moving the 4 picks.
Hey, I put that on a tee for @Myt1 but I doubt he could have crushed it in as few words as you did.
Word. I thought Fluto was worth it, but that's old media thinking on my part. I certainly don't give many of the local football writers at any of the big outlets any credence (except Reiss).
This forum is awesome - I read it every single day, in season and out, and rarely post. Work is boring as hell today, though, and I was legit confused. Thanks to all who've helped make things a bit more clear.
And lastly, thanks for the recommendations on who to follow for legit news and opinion off the board. Very helpful.
Plus they've done decent enough with UDFAs in Acciari, who looks like he could be a cheap 3rd/4th, Vatrano and potentially Czarniak.
There just aren't any RFA's out there that are worth 4 first round picks - if the B's spiral in the next few years, some of those could be top 10 picks.
Unfortunately they traded away their 2nd and 3rd round picks for 2017, so the only RFA offer sheet they can make is the one that involves the 4 first rounders or is under $1.2 million/yr.
(I'm fairly certain the Edmonton pick can't be included as compensation).
I think the only logical way to land a Trouba/Dumba/Lindholm/whoever is via trade. Even so, the price will be steep - likely way too steep.
I thought getting Shattenkirk would require an overpay, but at 27 maybe he's looking like a better deal assuming it would be a trade and sign.
Unfortunately they traded away their 2nd and 3rd round picks for 2017, so the only RFA offer sheet they can make is the one that involves the 4 first rounders or is under $1.2 million/yr.
(I'm fairly certain the Edmonton pick can't be included as compensation).
I think the only logical way to land a Trouba/Dumba/Lindholm/whoever is via trade. Even so, the price will be steep - likely way too steep.
I thought getting Shattenkirk would require an overpay, but at 27 maybe he's looking like a better deal assuming it would be a trade and sign.
I'll confirm. The reason Kessel got traded was because Burke reacquired Toronto's 2nd round pick in 2010. Had he signed Kessel to an offer sheet, the Bruins would have received Toronto's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks in 2010.
For the mobiles, Hagerty saying the other 29 GMs may have threatened Sweeney if he puts Trouba to an offer sheet. Hopefully, that's the end of that nonsense.
By all means, tell us what you're hearing, Haggs - but reporting what Jimmy Murphy makes up or what bcbruin posts doesn't count.
What a great way to weasel out of that "rumor" without saying he made it up. I gotta give him credit for creativity.
Wouldn't the NHLPA have an issue with this type of "threat" when it comes to player compensation?
Murphy is terrible, and Haggs is lazy. It's also Wednesday.
I would assume the price tag on Trouba is absurd, and I don't want Donny Boy to try to pay it. He should just not make trades for a while. Sit this one out, sign some reasonably priced FA and move forward with a rebuilding year. Let's see how these kids play, and continue to draft and develop. I am ok waiting if they actually follow that plan.
Instead, I could see them overpaying Demers or making some other "splashy" (to them, infuriating to us) FA deal and trying to win now while rebuilding.
If I were GM, I would explore a trade centered around Trouba and Krejci. Find a plan to plug the center hole, then try and make the deal. I think there is a potential deal to be had there that allows The Peg to continue to compete for the playoffs, and trade Trouba. I would be scared about what Donny Boy would make that trade look like, but wtf it's summer and I'm bored.
Edit - maybe Backes as a replacement? (I've started googling stuff to make this fake trade work).
I would assume the price tag on Trouba is absurd, and I don't want Donny Boy to try to pay it. He should just not make trades for a while. Sit this one out, sign some reasonably priced FA and move forward with a rebuilding year. Let's see how these kids play, and continue to draft and develop. I am ok waiting if they actually follow that plan.
Instead, I could see them overpaying Demers or making some other "splashy" (to them, infuriating to us) FA deal and trying to win now while rebuilding.
If I were GM, I would explore a trade centered around Trouba and Krejci. Find a plan to plug the center hole, then try and make the deal. I think there is a potential deal to be had there that allows The Peg to continue to compete for the playoffs, and trade Trouba. I would be scared about what Donny Boy would make that trade look like, but wtf it's summer and I'm bored.
Edit - maybe Backes as a replacement? (I've started googling stuff to make this fake trade work).
I haven't really looked into him much, but Tyler Myers might be a more realistic target out of the 'Peg. He's signed for 3 more years at $5.5 AAV and he could be a potential expansion draft casualty if the Jets re-sign Trouba. They've got Byfuglien and Enstrom on NMC's to protect, and then they'd probably go for Trouba over Myers. The forward group is pretty bleh though so they could go the 8 skaters route. Wheeler, Little, Scheifele, Dano are the only obvious players to protect up front. Their prospect pool is deep and should mostly all be exempt.
Expansion draft issues aside, Buffalo's already paid most of Myers contract, similar to Nashville and Weber, so I could see Winnipeg wanting to keep him so long as they're not in a cap crunch or anything.
Friedman discussed the offer-sheet possibility in his 30 Notes that was posted last night. The main points:
- Haggs getting shit on, but Friedman thinks the Bruins "considered" the idea.
- B's tried to move down from 29 and thinks part of the goal there was to try and get back their natural picks.
- Haggs story probably a trial baloon from the B's to pressure Winnipeg. It has worked in the past (Kessel, Saad).
- B's could offer sheet Trouba for 1-year $9.4 million. That would mean Trouba's QO next year is absurd, making it hard for the Jets to match. Of course this could back fire big time so you'd have to have some sort of wink-wink, nudge-nudge long term deal at a lower cap number done with Trouba.
I still don't see it, nor do I do it if I'm the B's. If I'm the Jets, and the Bruins approach me for a trade, I tell the Bruins they have to beat 4-first round picks. The Bruins aren't a credible threat for anything lower than that.
- Haggs getting shit on, but Friedman thinks the Bruins "considered" the idea.
- B's tried to move down from 29 and thinks part of the goal there was to try and get back their natural picks.
- Haggs story probably a trial baloon from the B's to pressure Winnipeg. It has worked in the past (Kessel, Saad).
- B's could offer sheet Trouba for 1-year $9.4 million. That would mean Trouba's QO next year is absurd, making it hard for the Jets to match. Of course this could back fire big time so you'd have to have some sort of wink-wink, nudge-nudge long term deal at a lower cap number done with Trouba.
I still don't see it, nor do I do it if I'm the B's. If I'm the Jets, and the Bruins approach me for a trade, I tell the Bruins they have to beat 4-first round picks. The Bruins aren't a credible threat for anything lower than that.
Can those with more knowledge of the financial aspects tell me why this isn't collusion?
Any idea on money? I'm guessing around $5m per. Maybe they will get him around $4m?
I'd be shocked if it was that low. The Vatanen extension seems about the perfect match.
Holy empty threat Batman! I'll either do all the leg work on a contract offer that he deems reasonable enough to match OR I'll really screw him by rewarding him handsomely with draft picks while sticking myself with a player I don't really want! That'll teach him!