SOSH Running Dogs

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
My ITB caused me to miss the Canberra Half three weeks ago and I haven't run in 6. I am doing walk/run/walk run of 3 minutes, 1 minute, 3 minutes on a track but no real running.

Anyway the trail 22km I signed up for last November is in two days and I'm doing it anyway, though I will walk up stairs.

My physio told me I was undoing all my rehab but fuck that guy what does he know.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
Anyone have any tips for a mainly off road ultra? It's 60k and about 11,000+ feet of vertical ascent (over the length of the course). There are rest stations about every 10k and not much support elsewhere over the course (from my understanding). They have a packing list that they require each runner to have while on the course. I've run some full marathons but nothing over this distance. It's primarily trails in some fairly mountainous terrain. By way of training, I ran two fulls in March so I'm hoping my legs will be ok for the distance since those were my longest runs during my training.
Sorry I missed this. I'm doing a trail 22 in a couple days but there are people doing 50 and 100 at the same race and we all have to carry the same shit.

Have you got a pack? I use a Salmon one - http://www.salomon.com/au/sports/running/bags-packs/_r127613 - like most people.

I use the SALOMON ADVANCED SKIN S-LAB 12 SET 2013 BACKPACK.

http://www.ultramarathonrunningstore.com/Salomon-Advanced-Skin-S-Lab-12-Set-Backpack-p/salslab12set.htm

Carries a super lightweight jacket, 3L water (2 on back, two 500ml pouches) and enough room for a range of other stuff like thermal top and map and space blanket, food, phone... standard trail stuff.

They're hardly even noticeable except when the water bladder's half full, it sloshes around. I don't mind it - sets a rythym - but my mate hates it.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
Finished yesterday in 3 hours, 22 minutes.

Lost a bit of time when we got lost on the wrong trail, about 15min, one of those things where the leader of a pack of runners went straight past a relatively poorly marked trail and everyone else dutifully followed.

Was aiming for 3 hours but the 1km of stairs at the end took another 25 minutes to climb. Everyone was literally dragging themselves up the handrails or climbing hands and feet.

The scenery in a World Heritage listed site was stunning.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
Thanks!

It was threatening the whole way but never completely exploded.

On the stairs I (and a lot of others) just cramped up. I was cramped in about 8 places.

Today is difficult! But a great experience.
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
Yay! It always feels extra good to overcome some bullshit setback.
 

Marceline

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2002
6,441
Canton, MA
Finished yesterday in 3 hours, 22 minutes.

Lost a bit of time when we got lost on the wrong trail, about 15min, one of those things where the leader of a pack of runners went straight past a relatively poorly marked trail and everyone else dutifully followed.

Was aiming for 3 hours but the 1km of stairs at the end took another 25 minutes to climb. Everyone was literally dragging themselves up the handrails or climbing hands and feet.

The scenery in a World Heritage listed site was stunning.
That's a really tremendous time considering your injury and the difficulty of the course. Well done!

Your description of the stairs at the end reminds me of the Great Wall Marathon. The last couple miles just dragging ourselves up the stairs - legs were completely shot by that point, so I (and many others) just crawled up on hands and feet or used the "handrail" (actually just a rope) to pull ourselves up.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
That's a really tremendous time considering your injury and the difficulty of the course. Well done!

Your description of the stairs at the end reminds me of the Great Wall Marathon. The last couple miles just dragging ourselves up the stairs - legs were completely shot by that point, so I (and many others) just crawled up on hands and feet or used the "handrail" (actually just a rope) to pull ourselves up.
Yeah. When there was one handrail it was brutal, everyone was just dragging themselves up. When there were, rarely, two handrails it was the best because you pulled yourself and your arms did it all. The worst were when there were no handrails because our legs just didn't work anymore. That's when people were crawling.
 

pedro1918

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
5,139
Map Ref. 41°N 93°W
For the first time in years, the Army-Ten Miler did not sell out in the first 24 hours. Here is the email I just received from the ATM organizers.

Dear Runner:

The Army Ten-Miler race date has been set for October 9th.

The 32nd annual race will begin at the Pentagon and the entry fee is $70 - all ATM proceeds benefit Soldier & Soldier Family MWR Programs.

General Registration presented by General Dynamics is now open - but only 4,000 slots remain.

Visit www.ArmyTenMiler.com for registration links. You may also find a registration confirmation search on ArmyTenMiler.com (under the registration menu) where you can search for a registration to confirm your own or a friends registration status.

If you have already registered - thank you and we look forward to seeing you on October 9. If you have not yet registered, please be advised that registration is nearly full and there is a limited window of time to still register.

Please also forward this email to others who you think should be reminded to register.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
Back on the road. My ITB wasn't fully healed so I went back to square one after it. It was weird; I went from 7 days a week to nothing for 10 weeks except that trail run in the middle.

Have a 16k fun run in about 6 weeks, then one of the two Sydney half-marathons a few weeks after that (the world's most boring race except for the fact you run across the Bridge). It was the one I was originally aiming to do as a Full but with the knee thing I'm back about 6 months.

How you guys going?
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
It's not bad when the humidity is low. But a run in 83 degrees with a dew point in the 70s is pretty harsh.
 

MB's Hidden Ball

Member
SoSH Member
My running has come to almost a complete standstill; I try to run no later than 0630 but it's already high 80s with 100% humidity by then so it's just a disaster.

I do move back to the US in a week and I will pick back up then.

Edit: it's 8:38 PM right now; according to my phone app it's 85, 100% humidity and "feels like 107."
 

Marceline

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2002
6,441
Canton, MA
Where are you located MB?

My running has stalled a bit the last few months - I've maintained but not improved. Over the winter I was doing 40 miles/week and lots of speed work. Lately I've been doing 20-25 miles per week and almost all slow running. Work has gotten a bit crazy so I haven't had as much time.

Going to try to kick it back up again and get ready for a half marathon in September. I failed meeting my goal time in the spring (ended up with a 1:41), going to shoot for a 1:36 again and see what happens.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
I won't do a Tough Mudder for a reason, which I'll get to, but it's also worth noting that while you travel 21km and theoretically you're doing a half, you don't run and generally stand around a lot as you trot between the obstacles.

I won't do a TM because I have first hand knowledge (working with Ambulance) of the incredible amount of horrific joint injuries that people suffer and need to be transported to hospital for. I have almost no doubt I would tear my shoulder out of its socket or destroy my knee doing one of those things and never run again or something.
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,548
KPWT
I don't know if it's paranoia or what, but every time I run I feel the ITB pain in my knee, like, just a little bit. It sucks.

Above the knee neoprene straps that press on the band to force it away from the bone in the joint work really well.


If you want to counter your paranoia with obsession, try focusing on balancing the lateral slope throughout your run so each leg travels the same length over the distance of your run. One leg consistently being upslope is supposed to contribute to ITB pain, so move around the road or trail enough to keep it balanced. It probably all nonsense, but it kept me from focusing on how the outside of my knee felt and seemed to help. For the price of crossing the street a few times, it is good mental distraction / reinforcement.

The real solution is a good stretching routine pre and post run, but that shits boring, yo.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
Yeah I've been trying to be committed to the stretching but it's so fucking hard that four days go past and it's like 'oh, shizzle, I haven't stretched.'

Thanks for the post.
 

hawaiirsn

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 22, 2006
757
Honolulu, HI
Anyone here have experience and any advice for training specifically for a downhill marathon? I'm winding myself up into training mode for the Peak to Creek Marathon in North Carolina in late October.

For some background, this will be my 4th marathon, and first non-Honolulu marathon. I've ran Honolulu the last 3 years, my fastest time was 3:21 2 years ago, and this year I went into it in much better shape, hoping to BQ, but after some knee injury flare ups in the last 3 weeks of training I went out in my goal pace but crashed hard and limped in at 3:29.

Anyway, I'm moving to NC for grad school, and ended up finding the Peak to Creek to register for. The complete opposite of Honolulu really- hopefully cool, small, rural, and hopefully fast. I am planning on pushing for BQ time again (I'm 26). My 91 year old grandmother lives right on the Boston course and loves watching every year, so quite I'm motivated to get myself into BQ shape in the next couple of years.

The race profile is very downhill dominant:


Either way, this should be a fun change (25,000 primarily Japanese tourists to a race capped at 300). I am also hopeful that my change in work will help my training regimen. I currently work in the mountains hiking with a heavy pack 4 days a week for long work days. It makes it really difficult to do much weekday training, and while all the hiking keeps my muscles conditioned, obviously a switch to more days of real running will help me, and hopefully wear my body down less in the process.

I'm hoping to find other races to do before and after then in the area (I'll be in Durham but of course will drive for anything good), so if anyone has any suggestions, I'd be thrilled.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

Internet Cowboy, Turbo Accelerator, tOSU Denier
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Has anyone done a tough mudder or any of those type of things? I've been invited and I'm kind of hesitant.

Syd, I did a 5K in 20:24 yesterday.
Checking in here as I have started running again, but you guys are running distances far greater than I am targeting for the rest of the year. On the plus side though, my resting heart rate is only 11 bpm over where it was two weeks before I ran a marathon in 1999 (largely through jumping rope, but also running), and I am injury free so far. As I progress through the year running will become a bigger part of my training and I will start targeting some fall and spring races. We'll see.

Tough Mudders are great fitness events. Syd is correct, the catastrophic injury rates are very high but I would say - with no evidence to support this - that the bulk of those are probably from folks who are not in appropriate condition for the course. For some bizarre reason the event attracts folks who are 28-40 years old and who have clearly gone to seed in office jobs, but who don't realize it. The place to realize that you are no longer in "I can get back into shape in 3 weeks" shape is on a 5k or 10k course, not on a Tough Mudder.

But if you enter your training in decent shape, and if you are looking for an event that really does help your overall fitness (versus one that improves your running) and if you are getting bored of being in a running-heavy training program, it is a great event. Please note, it is not a race. They lecture you about how your job is to get everyone in your corrall around the course, that if one person doesn't finish then you all fail....and then they have people posted around the course telling you that you are a complete wand if you run out way ahead of your group. This doesn't mean that you are all running as a cluster, but you run in groups of 4-20 people and help and encourage each other at each obstacle. This isn't for everyone, but I enjoyed it and would do it again.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

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Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
The real solution is a good stretching routine pre and post run, but that shits boring, yo.
I thought that the current thinking was not to stretch prior to exercise. I walk for about ten minutes just to warm up, and I do some really stupid looking movements to loosen up my knee, hip and ankles. I should be clear on that though, I only do these if no one I could ever possibly respect is within line of sight of me.
 

pedro1918

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
5,139
Map Ref. 41°N 93°W
So my trusty Garmin is malfunctioning all over the place. It's at least 10 years old and the buttons stick so getting it to start/stop/reset/freeze the bezzle and unfreeze the bezzle is pretty close to impossible. I have also noticed moisture on the inside of the glass so the fact that it kind of fades in and out makes me think the end is near. Does any one know the life span of these things? More importantly, I'd love to hear so recommendations and warnings about a replacement watch. If anyone has a thought I would appreciate it.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,091
So my trusty Garmin is malfunctioning all over the place. It's at least 10 years old and the buttons stick so getting it to start/stop/reset/freeze the bezzle and unfreeze the bezzle is pretty close to impossible. I have also noticed moisture on the inside of the glass so the fact that it kind of fades in and out makes me think the end is near. Does any one know the life span of these things? More importantly, I'd love to hear so recommendations and warnings about a replacement watch. If anyone has a thought I would appreciate it.
10 years seems like a really good run, I got about 4 from mine before replacing.
 

fiskful of dollars

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
2,873
Charlottesville, VA
So my trusty Garmin is malfunctioning all over the place. It's at least 10 years old and the buttons stick so getting it to start/stop/reset/freeze the bezzle and unfreeze the bezzle is pretty close to impossible. I have also noticed moisture on the inside of the glass so the fact that it kind of fades in and out makes me think the end is near. Does any one know the life span of these things? More importantly, I'd love to hear so recommendations and warnings about a replacement watch. If anyone has a thought I would appreciate it.
My wife has a Garmin Forerunner 230 and she loves it. I am more of a triathlete and I have a Garmin Forerunner 920XT. They are amazing devices. If you bike or swim, I'd definitely get the 920XT. If you are primarily interested in running, the 230 is an excellent runner's watch...gives you all the biometric data you could ever want.
 

rbeaud

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
348
Orange, CT
So my trusty Garmin is malfunctioning all over the place. It's at least 10 years old and the buttons stick so getting it to start/stop/reset/freeze the bezzle and unfreeze the bezzle is pretty close to impossible. I have also noticed moisture on the inside of the glass so the fact that it kind of fades in and out makes me think the end is near. Does any one know the life span of these things? More importantly, I'd love to hear so recommendations and warnings about a replacement watch. If anyone has a thought I would appreciate it.
My original Forerunner 305 lasted 7 years, then the battery went. I tried repairing using Lord Google's advice, though didn't seal it properly. Replaced with a refurb from Amazon that lasted 3-4 months before the battery died. I really loved that style and have often thought about sending both to an Ebay-er that repairs Garmins for most any defect ($35 per issue as I recall). However, the 305 is getting long in the teeth for an electronic device no matter how you slice it.

I wound up getting a Forerunner 910XT at the LL Bean Outlet store. Hopefully it will go a long while before the battery dies. In our family we had/have several 305s & 10s and a 220. All have worked great and provide at least a minimum of data. I like more data, my wife simple pace/time. Frankly, I'm wishing for a newer model (230/920) with integrated heart rate and cadence. Not a fan of the 600 series with touch screen. Friends have complained about "phantom" touches changing settings while running. My wife got the 220 because her 10 died after 4.5 hrs of running, so be aware of that if a long charge is critical.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
I thought that the current thinking was not to stretch prior to exercise. I walk for about ten minutes just to warm up, and I do some really stupid looking movements to loosen up my knee, hip and ankles. I should be clear on that though, I only do these if no one I could ever possibly respect is within line of sight of me.
Stretching is important when used appropriately with warming up. But you're referring to muscle-loosening pre-run/post-run stretching. It's like RBI's and Batting avergae; useless in isolation, still relevant in support of other things.

What Gunfighter is talking about is more like Yoga; every day/night stretching and strengthening routines. I do about 40 minutes of 'stretching' every night which includes using a foam roller and a couple types of rubber bands. Different things to stretch out the IT Band, which is my ongoing issue, the bands to strengthen my glutes which is ultimately what caused the IT issue (and most IT issues) and the foam rolling to keep different muscles pliable and untwist them.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

Internet Cowboy, Turbo Accelerator, tOSU Denier
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Stretching is important when used appropriately with warming up. But you're referring to muscle-loosening pre-run/post-run stretching. It's like RBI's and Batting avergae; useless in isolation, still relevant in support of other things.

What Gunfighter is talking about is more like Yoga; every day/night stretching and strengthening routines. I do about 40 minutes of 'stretching' every night which includes using a foam roller and a couple types of rubber bands. Different things to stretch out the IT Band, which is my ongoing issue, the bands to strengthen my glutes which is ultimately what caused the IT issue (and most IT issues) and the foam rolling to keep different muscles pliable and untwist them.
After reading this I added in 10 minutes with a foam roller in the evening to my stretching routine, focusing on my calves where I have had some issues. Only 3 days in, but I have felt real good since I added it in and have crushed my workouts. Thanks.
 

Gubanich Plague

New Member
Jul 14, 2005
63
After reading this I added in 10 minutes with a foam roller in the evening to my stretching routine, focusing on my calves where I have had some issues. Only 3 days in, but I have felt real good since I added it in and have crushed my workouts. Thanks.
This may or may nor be relevant to your calf issues, but mine come mostly from running on my toes. To prevent this, I (1) buy running shoes with tall heels (2) if that doesn't do the trick, use heel inserts (3) if they still give me trouble, focus on making sure my heel hits the ground first on every step.

It's one of several aches and pains I fight from time to time. I've had to start over running more than a dozen times in the past decade because of a crazy work schedule (3 jobs) and some injuries. I've found that once I build a decent base, my aches and pains get under control pretty quickly. This last time, they all but disappeared by week 3.
 

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag

Internet Cowboy, Turbo Accelerator, tOSU Denier
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
That is excellent advice, but not applicable in my particular case. I moved to a low-impact stride that is heel first and barely gets the feet off the ground over 20 years ago to avoid the other issues I have had with shin splints et al. I was really lucky to know a guy who could coach a running stride very well, all of my long runs have been thanks to him. My calf problems come from all the issues I have had with issues below the hip; torn/weakened ankle ligaments, shin splints and, apparently "something weird with the sheathing." I don't even really know what the last one means, but basically because everything around my calves are weakened the calves bear A huge load when I run.
 

ethangl

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 28, 2007
2,375
Austin
Different things to stretch out the IT Band, which is my ongoing issue, the bands to strengthen my glutes which is ultimately what caused the IT issue (and most IT issues) and the foam rolling to keep different muscles pliable and untwist them.
Seems like you've tried a lot of things, so apologies if you've already mentioned/tried this — are you warming up your hip adductors before you run?

I had ITB trouble after over-training for a half, found a super simple hip routine on YT, and the ITB troubles disappeared. All the other things like stretching, foam rolling and compression above the knee didn't really help.
 

SydneySox

A dash of cool to add the heat
SoSH Member
Sep 19, 2005
15,605
The Eastern Suburbs
Seems like you've tried a lot of things, so apologies if you've already mentioned/tried this — are you warming up your hip adductors before you run?

I had ITB trouble after over-training for a half, found a super simple hip routine on YT, and the ITB troubles disappeared. All the other things like stretching, foam rolling and compression above the knee didn't really help.
Maybe - I'd love to try anything that can help as it's still nagging me.

What do you suggest? Any links?

edit: As in, I do a stretch but if you found one that worked for you I'd love to try it.