Buddy Ryan Dead at 82

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Jun 28, 2016

When Buddy gets to the Pearly Gates, do you think he tells St Peter "You've got a winner in town!"

Ah who am I kidding, there's no way Buddy's going to heaven.

ifmanis5 · Jun 28, 2016

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
When Buddy gets to the Pearly Gates, do you think he tells St Peter "You've got a winner in town!"

Ah who am I kidding, there's no way Buddy's going to heaven.

It would be appropriate if the Devil had a bounty on him.

Blue Monkey · Jun 28, 2016

BigSoxFan · Jun 28, 2016

Are the Ryan brothers going to dedicate their upcoming 7-9 season to Buddy?

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Jun 28, 2016

That would be an appropriate gesture for a guy with a .500 career record and zero career playoff wins.

Bergs · Jun 28, 2016

Interesting that one of the classiest coaches of all time (Pat Summitt) dies on the same day as one of the least.

Vinho Tinto · Jun 28, 2016

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Jun 28, 2016

Ryan's legacy is an interesting one. His lasting legacy will of course be as DC of the '85 Bears, and of course that's one helluva impressive thing to have as your mark on the game.

But other than that? Meh. He was overall a failure as a head coach. He was more known for style than actual results. .500 record, zero playoff wins, lots of obnoxious things said and done over that time. I mean, yes, the Eagles were an exciting team when he was coaching them but they didn't really accomplish much overall because they kept losing in the playoffs. He ran up the score on the Cowboys, so....yay? He never won a playoff game there, got shitcanned and then punched Gilbride down in Houston as DC (and that team never did anything either). He went to the Cardinals and didn't do shit there.

Even the 46 defense, on which he hung his hat, eventually became obsolete, and in a big way. No wonder it was Marino who cost the Bears an undefeated season, he was exactly the QB who could expose that d's weakness to the crossing patterns and quick releases. And many more QBs today can make those passes. The 46 is deader than Abe Lincoln.

And of course he's blessed us all with his fratboy douchebag blabbermouth overrated asshole sons who have also never really accomplished anything expect garnering attention for themselves.

So meh. I'd be interested in hearing more from Eagles fans, because my outsider's view is that as a head coach, he's one of the most overrated, overhyped guys ever.

Van Everyman · Jun 28, 2016

Edit: didn't load properly on mobile

Otis Foster · Jun 28, 2016

(Old joke)

A musician calls the home of Buddy Rich (famous drummer and noted prick).

Buddy's wife answers.

The caller asks for Buddy.

Wife: "I'm sorry to tell you Buddy died the other day."

Caller: "That's too bad. My condolences."

Next day, musician calls again and asks for Buddy.

Wife: "I think you called yesterday. Buddy's dead."

Musician hangs up.

Next day, musician calls, wife answers, musician asks for Buddy.

Wife (exploding): "This is the third time I've told you. Buddy's dead - why do you keep calling."

Musician: Because I just love to hear you say that."

GregHarris · Jun 28, 2016

The guy was a prick and a totally ineffective head coach, yet was the architect of one of the greatest defenses in NFL history. However, that great D couldn't cover for his massive ego issues, and continued failure at actually running a team. Like SJH said, that 46 quickly became obsolete when the west coast offence turned mainstream. Ryan could not adjust. The very definition of a one trick pony.

Average Reds · Jun 28, 2016

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Ryan's legacy is an interesting one. His lasting legacy will of course be as DC of the '85 Bears, and of course that's one helluva impressive thing to have as your mark on the game.

But other than that? Meh. He was overall a failure as a head coach. He was more known for style than actual results. .500 record, zero playoff wins, lots of obnoxious things said and done over that time. I mean, yes, the Eagles were an exciting team when he was coaching them but they didn't really accomplish much overall because they kept losing in the playoffs. He ran up the score on the Cowboys, so....yay? He never won a playoff game there, got shitcanned and then punched Gilbride down in Houston as DC (and that team never did anything either). He went to the Cardinals and didn't do shit there.

Even the 46 defense, on which he hung his hat, eventually became obsolete, and in a big way. No wonder it was Marino who cost the Bears an undefeated season, he was exactly the QB who could expose that d's weakness to the crossing patterns and quick releases. And many more QBs today can make those passes. The 46 is deader than Abe Lincoln.

And of course he's blessed us all with his fratboy douchebag blabbermouth overrated asshole sons who have also never really accomplished anything expect garnering attention for themselves.

So meh. I'd be interested in hearing more from Eagles fans, because my outsider's view is that as a head coach, he's one of the most overrated, overhyped guys ever.

If this were a Supreme Court decision, this Eagles fan would join it.

GregHarris · Jun 28, 2016

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
And of course he's blessed us all with his fratboy douchebag blabbermouth overrated asshole sons who have also never really accomplished anything expect garnering attention for themselves.

I was thinking about how Rexy was initially successful in installing that great 46 with a modern update. But after just two years the league adjusted and those AFC Championship game appearances were no more. That Jets D allowed 236, and 304 points in 2009 and 2010 respectively. He's never come close to that type of defense since.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Jun 28, 2016

The 46, like Zed, is dead, man.

Oil Can Dan · Jun 28, 2016

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Ryan's legacy is an interesting one. His lasting legacy will of course be as DC of the '85 Bears, and of course that's one helluva impressive thing to have as your mark on the game.

But other than that? Meh. He was overall a failure as a head coach. He was more known for style than actual results. .500 record, zero playoff wins, lots of obnoxious things said and done over that time. I mean, yes, the Eagles were an exciting team when he was coaching them but they didn't really accomplish much overall because they kept losing in the playoffs. He ran up the score on the Cowboys, so....yay? He never won a playoff game there, got shitcanned and then punched Gilbride down in Houston as DC (and that team never did anything either). He went to the Cardinals and didn't do shit there.

Even the 46 defense, on which he hung his hat, eventually became obsolete, and in a big way. No wonder it was Marino who cost the Bears an undefeated season, he was exactly the QB who could expose that d's weakness to the crossing patterns and quick releases. And many more QBs today can make those passes. The 46 is deader than Abe Lincoln.

And of course he's blessed us all with his fratboy douchebag blabbermouth overrated asshole sons who have also never really accomplished anything expect garnering attention for themselves.

So meh. I'd be interested in hearing more from Eagles fans, because my outsider's view is that as a head coach, he's one of the most overrated, overhyped guys ever.

I was 15 in 1986 when he took over as HC for the Eagles, who were my adopted favorite team. The Eagles were not good at that time, yet Buddy proclaimed that the Eagles would not only win the division in 1986, but would not lose a divisional game. I was in the stands for his first game as Eagles HC @ Washington. They lost 41-14 and the RFK crowd was chanting "Buuuuuuddddddyyyyyy" all throughout the 4th quarter.

I think that's pretty much the Buddy Ryan era in Philly. He brought a shitload of bravado, but the results were....lacking. But that bravado played well in Philly, and those fans loved him for it. They loved him more than they loved Andy Reid, which is crazy when you think about who did more for that franchise. But, that's how it works in Philly.

I too loved Buddy when I was growing up, but I was frustrated that while he could clearly build a good team, he couldn't motivate/coach it in the big games. And his whimsical attitude towards the offensive side of the ball was infuriating. He basically wanted Randall to run around and make three or four plays a game, and then let the defense dominate. Which it did. But had he either outsourced offense to a better offensive mind than Rich Kotite or invested more time and attention to the insanely talented Cunningham then he would have done better as the HC. There's no way that team shouldn't have at least made an NFCC game or two.

It was tough being in a division where the other head coaches were Gibbs, Parcells and Landry/JJ and you've got...Buddy. I think the Philly fans figured that if they weren't going to win the game then at least they'd win the fight afterward. Buddy fit that philosophy perfectly.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Jun 28, 2016

Gee, thoughtless bravado not backed up by the results on the field? Where have I heard that before?

luckiestman · Jun 28, 2016

GregHarris said:
The guy was a prick and a totally ineffective head coach, yet was the architect of one of the greatest defenses in NFL history. However, that great D couldn't cover for his massive ego issues, and continued failure at actually running a team. Like SJH said, that 46 quickly became obsolete when the west coast offence turned mainstream. Ryan could not adjust. The very definition of a one trick pony.

Gibbs had plenty of answers for 46 without running west coast, that's my memory anyway. This shit happened like 25-30 years ago

Spacemans Bong · Jun 28, 2016

He did do a few things besides the 46. He helped coach the Jets defense in Super Bowl III with Walt Michaels, and he was the defensive line coach of the Purple People Eaters, although all those guys were well established by the time Buddy got around (and Gary Larsen was retired by then). On the other hand, those guys all had pretty long careers and maybe he played a hand in that too.

If I was old enough at the time, I probably would have hated him. Especially as I'm sure he held the WCO in contempt. But instead he's one of the bigger characters of my sports childhood. So rest in peace.

Also, it was hard not to soften towards him watching the Bears 30 for 30 and seeing the old man so weakened by all the strokes.

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag · Jun 28, 2016

Wait a second.

First off, the fact that the 46 has not stood the test of time is, in no way, shape, or form a reflection on Buddy Ryan's abilities as the architect of one of the most effective defenses ever to be run in the NFL. Football is constantly changing and evolving and he designed the perfect defense for the offenses of that day, for which he should get kudos.

Secondly, while few, if any, in this thread ever felt the sting of Buddy's playoff losses as much as I did, calling him a failure as a coach is laughable. He was one of the greatest judges of horse flesh ever to walk an NFL sideline. The talent he secured for the Birds of Prey defense was fantastic, he knew who would work in his systems. The mistakes that were made in the draft were on the offensive line and were made on "can't miss" picks, unfortunately. The Birds of Prey defense was sick. They were as good as advertised and had Jerome Brown not gotten behind the wheel of a too fast automobile they had a chance to be all-time great. They may have been all-time great anyhow, it has been a while since I have looked at all of the various "era" stats.

Thirdly, Buddy had shit luck. His best team - the '91 team - had its championship hopes blown to smithereens when Bryce Paup landed on Cunningham's leg in the first game of the season. Randall's QB coach, with whom he had a very close relationship, died suddenly after his rookie season of a brain tumor. Randall was so devastated that he told Buddy that he didn't want another QB coach (Buddy obviously shouldn't have respected that decision, but you can see how he would do so), which hampered his development until he got to the Vikings. Chris Carter was an alcoholic when he played for the Eagles despite Buddy pushing him repeatedly to get clean. Jerome Brown dies in a car accident. As I note above, his biggest draft failures were the ones that the pundits went gaga over when they were made. He was working under an owner who was hated by the league, the players and the city.

I'm not a huge fan of the bounties, but his shit-talking was great entertainment and he delivered more times than he didn't.

Buddy Ryan was not a brilliant head coach, but he was very, very far from not being, at least, "pretty darned good." His players loved him (watch the documentary on the '85 Bears.....it is hard to realize that Ditka was actually the coach of that team), his defenses were suffocating, and if he had caught a break or two he may well have been a bigger winner.

Let's not spend this thread acting like bitches because the guy's son has said he would beat our team and then did it a few times in big spots. Ryan was a great football mind and tremendous, tremendous entertainment. He deserves the praise he will get over the next few days.

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag · Jun 28, 2016

Spacemans Bong said:
He did do a few things besides the 46. He helped coach the Jets defense in Super Bowl III with Walt Michaels, and he was the defensive line coach of the Purple People Eaters, although all those guys were well established by the time Buddy got around (and Gary Larsen was retired by then). On the other hand, those guys all had pretty long careers and maybe he played a hand in that too.

If I was old enough at the time, I probably would have hated him. Especially as I'm sure he held the WCO in contempt. But instead he's one of the bigger characters of my sports childhood. So rest in peace.

Also, it was hard not to soften towards him watching the Bears 30 for 30 and seeing the old man so weakened by all the strokes.

He was real early in his career with the Jets which was why I didn't mention that, but you are right on regarding the Purple People Eaters, as well as how tough it was to see him weakened by strokes at the end of his life.

He was also a vet who served in some grueling campaigns in Korea. At one point he came face to face with a North Korean soldier who had his gun drawn on him, only 5-6 feet away. The guy's gun jammed, saving Ryan's life, but he had to look the guy right in the eye as he killed him. Something else to put in the mix.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Jun 28, 2016

Secondly, while few, if any, in this thread ever felt the sting of Buddy's playoff losses as much as I did, calling him a failure as a coach is laughable. He was one of the greatest judges of horse flesh ever to walk an NFL sideline. The talent he secured for the Birds of Prey defense was fantastic, he knew who would work in his systems. The mistakes that were made in the draft were on the offensive line and were made on "can't miss" picks, unfortunately. The Birds of Prey defense was sick. They were as good as advertised and had Jerome Brown not gotten behind the wheel of a too fast automobile they had a chance to be all-time great. They may have been all-time great anyhow, it has been a while since I have looked at all of the various "era" stats.

On one side of the field only.

My point about the 46 was that everyone remembers it, but it never had the lasting impact that the Bill Walsh or Paul Brown innovations did. It was incredibly effective for its time, but it got solved very quickly and doesn't have much of a part to play in today's NFL.

I appreciate your comments, I did say I wanted Eagles fans to chime in.

Oil Can Dan · Jun 28, 2016

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag said:
Wait a second.

First off, the fact that the 46 has not stood the test of time is, in no way, shape, or form a reflection on Buddy Ryan's abilities as the architect of one of the most effective defenses ever to be run in the NFL. Football is constantly changing and evolving and he designed the perfect defense for the offenses of that day, for which he should get kudos.

Secondly, while few, if any, in this thread ever felt the sting of Buddy's playoff losses as much as I did, calling him a failure as a coach is laughable. He was one of the greatest judges of horse flesh ever to walk an NFL sideline. The talent he secured for the Birds of Prey defense was fantastic, he knew who would work in his systems. The mistakes that were made in the draft were on the offensive line and were made on "can't miss" picks, unfortunately. The Birds of Prey defense was sick. They were as good as advertised and had Jerome Brown not gotten behind the wheel of a too fast automobile they had a chance to be all-time great. They may have been all-time great anyhow, it has been a while since I have looked at all of the various "era" stats.

Thirdly, Buddy had shit luck. His best team - the '91 team - had its championship hopes blown to smithereens when Bryce Paup landed on Cunningham's leg in the first game of the season. Randall's QB coach, with whom he had a very close relationship, died suddenly after his rookie season of a brain tumor. Randall was so devastated that he told Buddy that he didn't want another QB coach (Buddy obviously shouldn't have respected that decision, but you can see how he would do so), which hampered his development until he got to the Vikings. Chris Carter was an alcoholic when he played for the Eagles despite Buddy pushing him repeatedly to get clean. Jerome Brown dies in a car accident. As I note above, his biggest draft failures were the ones that the pundits went gaga over when they were made. He was working under an owner who was hated by the league, the players and the city.

I'm not a huge fan of the bounties, but his shit-talking was great entertainment and he delivered more times than he didn't.

Buddy Ryan was not a brilliant head coach, but he was very, very far from not being, at least, "pretty darned good." His players loved him (watch the documentary on the '85 Bears.....it is hard to realize that Ditka was actually the coach of that team), his defenses were suffocating, and if he had caught a break or two he may well have been a bigger winner.

Let's not spend this thread acting like bitches because the guy's son has said he would beat our team and then did it a few times in big spots. Ryan was a great football mind and tremendous, tremendous entertainment. He deserves the praise he will get over the next few days.

Yammer, great to see you back!

Nit pick, but Buddy was gone by the '91 season. Despite the Kotite factor I will always believe that the '91 Eagles had a great shot at the SB had Randall not blown out his knee in that game.

Another nitpick - Jerome died in 1992 well after Buddy was gone, so not sure how his death was bad luck for Buddy.

And finally I know Buddy pushed Carter to get clean, but he did release him after an 11 TD season. That's not a positive on Buddy's track record no matter what.

Who's your pick for best Eagles HC since Vermeil?

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag · Jun 28, 2016

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
On one side of the field only.

My point about the 46 was that everyone remembers it, but it never had the lasting impact that the Bill Walsh or Paul Brown innovations did. It was incredibly effective for its time, but it got solved very quickly and doesn't have much of a part to play in today's NFL.

I appreciate your comments, I did say I wanted Eagles fans to chime in.

I can't argue with Paul Brown. He was the greatest football mind ever to walk an NFL sideline, using him as the standard is not reasonable. He literally built the foundation for how football organizations would run, how players would prepare, how to scout.....I doubt that there will ever be anyone as impactful to a major sport as Paul Brown was to football. As my late uncle used to say, "I hate Modell much more for firing Paul Brown than I do him taking the fucking team to Baltimore."

But when you talk about Walsh, you are talking about an offensive innovator (whose innovation, btw, came while he was working under Paul Brown....) and the passing rules have gotten looser and looser since he created his concepts. A 46 defense doesn't work, among other reasons, because you can't jam receivers at the line. Hell, you could say that Sid Gillman's concepts are still more in play than the 46 if you wanted to really be picky.

It was a sound innovation and his scheme, combined with his ability to select and motivate the right players for his system made him one of the great defensive minds in NFL history.

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag · Jun 28, 2016

Oil Can Dan said:
Yammer, great to see you back!

Nit pick, but Buddy was gone by the '91 season. Despite the Kotite factor I will always believe that the '91 Eagles had a great shot at the SB had Randall not blown out his knee in that game.

Another nitpick - Jerome died in 1992 well after Buddy was gone, so not sure how his death was bad luck for Buddy.

And finally I know Buddy pushed Carter to get clean, but he did release him after an 11 TD season. That's not a positive on Buddy's track record no matter what.

Who's your pick for best Eagles HC since Vermeil?

You are right, Buddy was gone when both of those things happened. I always consider him to be the coach of the Eagles when I was in college, but of course, he was gone after my sophomore year.

My understanding on Carter was that he was forced by Braman and the other folks to let Carter go because Buddy couldn't get Carter clean. Carter did something - showed up for the Dallas game drunk? - that made them think that he was going to implode. He was dropped for his substance problems, not his production, and that sucks.

My pick for best Eagles HC of all time is Andy Reid. I will defer to folks who are pro Greasy Neale though.

Average Reds · Jun 28, 2016

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag said:
You are right, Buddy was gone when both of those things happened. I always consider him to be the coach of the Eagles when I was in college, but of course, he was gone after my sophomore year.

My understanding on Carter was that he was forced by Braman and the other folks to let Carter go because Buddy couldn't get Carter clean. Carter did something - showed up for the Dallas game drunk? - that made them think that he was going to implode. He was dropped for his substance problems, not his production, and that sucks.

My pick for best Eagles HC of all time is Andy Reid. I will defer to folks who are pro Greasy Neale though.

I'm about 10 years older and I felt the sting of those losses as much or more than you did. I also won't deny that Buddy was a great defensive coach. But his contempt for the offensive side of the ball made him fail as a head coach and it has nothing to do with shit luck.

His treatment of Cris Carter is actually one of the few things I actually admire about Buddy as a person. He jettisoned one of his best offensive talents and took tremendous heat for doing so in order to force Carter to get clean. Carter got the message, got clean and went on to have a great career in Minnesota. To this day, he credits Ryan for his success because he was the only one willing to hold him accountable for his actions.

Was (Not Wasdin) · Jun 28, 2016

From a BB press conference in 2012 prior to a Jets game:

A lot of the success that Buddy had with the 46 defense came in the ‘80s when there was a lot of two-back offense. It was one of the things that probably drove the two-back offense out.

In a two-back set, I’d say it was probably a lot cleaner and it always gave you an extra blitzer that was hard for the offense. Even if they seven-man protected on play-action, there was always an eighth guy there somewhere. You didn’t have to bring all eight; if you just brought the right one and they didn’t have him or somebody would have to have two guys and that creates some problems. I think that’s what Buddy really, where the genius of that was; he had by formation a different combination and group of blitzes so depending on what formation you were in, then he ran a blitz that would attack that formation and then when you changed formations, then he would change blitzes. Now, plus the fact [he] had Dan Hampton, Richard Dent, Mike Singletary, [Otis] Wilson, [Wilbur] Marshall, that was a pretty good group there. You could have probably played a lot of things and that defense would have looked pretty good, especially when they put Hampton on the nose. That was pretty un-blockable.

I've read in a couple of places that over the years, BB has used some of the concepts of the 46 defense (I think Nick Saban does at Alabama as well). Pretty sure the blitz that the Pats ran against the Rams in the SB when Law picked off Warner for a TD was based on a 46 formation/concept, Rob Ryan was the linebackers coach on that team.

RSN Diaspora · Jun 28, 2016

Every time I hear Buddy Ryan's name, I think of two things:

1) How close he came to being the Pats' head coach before they decided on Parcells, and;

2) Thomas Boswell's "99 Reasons Why Baseball is Better than Football," where reason #80 is "Blowhard coach Buddy Ryan, who gave himself a grade of A+ for his handling of the Eagles. 'I didn't make any mistakes,' he explained. His 5-10-1 team was 7-9 the year before he came."

terrynever · Jun 28, 2016

Little late to the dance with this: Buddy took a lot of heat for releasing Cris Carter from the Eagles but it was this action that finally got Carter's attention and got him off the nose candy. Carter was forever grateful and will show some fake emotion today.

Oil Can Dan · Jun 28, 2016

I mean, that's super awesome for Chris Carter but not so much for the Philadelphia Eagles. Yay I guess?

Oil Can Dan · Jun 28, 2016

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag said:
You are right, Buddy was gone when both of those things happened. I always consider him to be the coach of the Eagles when I was in college, but of course, he was gone after my sophomore year.

My understanding on Carter was that he was forced by Braman and the other folks to let Carter go because Buddy couldn't get Carter clean. Carter did something - showed up for the Dallas game drunk? - that made them think that he was going to implode. He was dropped for his substance problems, not his production, and that sucks.

My pick for best Eagles HC of all time is Andy Reid. I will defer to folks who are pro Greasy Neale though.

I am jealous that you've been able to black out Rick Kotite.

I did not know that about Braman behing behind Carter's release. Maybe the "all he does is catch TD passes" comment was a subliminal shot at Braman then?

RG33 · Jun 28, 2016

I think the guy had a great run as a DC, was clearly overmatched as an HC of a franchise, and has the lasting legacy of the '85 Bears. I don't think he was overyhyped, because I don't really think of him as any sort of all-time great or HofF coach -- he was more of a caricature to me. 55-55-1 is pretty perfect for him as an HC. That should be the epitaph of the Ryan Family Plot.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Jun 28, 2016

Oil Can Dan said:
I mean, that's super awesome for Chris Carter but not so much for the Philadelphia Eagles. Yay I guess?

Over in the Bruins forum there's been a lot of talk about Seguin's off-ice behavior and habits that led the team to get fed up with him and trade him away. It's always a tough thing to decide if the team should have done more or better when they do so, like the Eagles did with Carter. Impossible to know if he would have gotten his shit together in Philly. Honestly the closest parallel I see to Carter in Philly is Keith Hernandez getting dealt away from the Cardinals to the Mets because Whitey had enough of his nose candy problem.

It's to Hernandez and Carter's immense credit that they got their lives turned around once traded away.

ifmanis5 · Jun 28, 2016

Carter figured out that he needed a fall guy. Then he lectured everybody else about it. He's awful.

accidentalsuccess · Jun 28, 2016

It was incredibly frustrating to watch Cunningham run for his life on those Eagles teams. Exciting but frustrating. A good OC and they really would have been amazing.

For every Carter that puts their life together there's 100 guys that bomb out of the nfl (and pro sports in general). I had no problem with him being cut, give 'em credit for getting straight, and find him annoying as hell on TV ever since he started that gig.

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag · Jun 28, 2016

Oil Can Dan said:
I am jealous that you've been able to black out Rick Kotite.

I did not know that about Braman behing behind Carter's release. Maybe the "all he does is catch TD passes" comment was a subliminal shot at Braman then?

I don't think that you can ever get a straight story around who made which decisions in the Braman-Ryan era, but the version I have heard was that Braman was concerned and pushed the issue to the center of the table and it was Kotite that gave the opinion to the front office that Carter was a risk, leading to the release. I am not sure that you can say that Braman was the one who pulled the trigger, but he didn't help. Ryan was also sick of Carter's antics by the end, but he had a lot of guys with substance abuse problems on the '85 Bears that were not cut.

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag · Jun 28, 2016

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
It's to Hernandez and Carter's immense credit that they got their lives turned around once traded away.

Agreed

DeJesus Built My Hotrod · Jun 28, 2016

Buddy Ryan's main failing as a HC was that he coached in the same division as Parcells, Gibbs and Landry/Johnson. And at the same time as Walsh was dominating the conference . Those Eagles teams were ferocious on defense. All else is revisionist history.

Bergs · Jun 29, 2016

DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Buddy Ryan's main failing as a HC was that he coached in the same division as Parcells, Gibbs and Landry/Johnson. And at the same time as Walsh was dominating the conference . Those Eagles teams were ferocious on defense. All else is revisionist history.

I emphatically disagree. A great leader of men does not cause the public internal drama Buddy did. The 46 was a stroke of genius, but it was thoroughly dismantled by Don Schula, who I consider equally flawed as a head coach.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Jun 29, 2016

Well, it was really dismantled by Marino, who was one of the few QBs in the league that time to have a quick enough release to beat the 46. The 46 could be beaten on screens and especially crossing patterns, but most QBs in that time simply couldn't read and react quickly enough to make those throws in the face of the Bears' pressure. Marino could.

It's always an interesting thought experiment to guess how Miami might have done against Chicago in that SB if the Pats hadn't won the Squish the Fish game. Of course Miami had been taken apart by SF in the SB the year before, and Chicago's D was better than the 9ers, so IMO it's likely the Bears would have won a SB against Miami as well.

JayMags71 · Jun 29, 2016

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Well, it was really dismantled by Marino, who was one of the few QBs in the league that time to have a quick enough release to beat the 46. The 46 could be beaten on screens and especially crossing patterns, but most QBs in that time simply couldn't read and react quickly enough to make those throws in the face of the Bears' pressure. Marino could.

It's always an interesting thought experiment to guess how Miami might have done against Chicago in that SB if the Pats hadn't won the Squish the Fish game. Of course Miami had been taken apart by SF in the SB the year before, and Chicago's D was better than the 9ers, so IMO it's likely the Bears would have won a SB against Miami as well.

Well Chicago's only loss that year was when they played the Dolphins. So, if your hypothetical Super Bowl happened, it's likely to be remembered the in the same breath as SB XLII.

joe dokes · Jun 29, 2016

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Ryan's legacy is an interesting one. His lasting legacy will of course be as DC of the '85 Bears, and of course that's one helluva impressive thing to have as your mark on the game.

But other than that? Meh. He was overall a failure as a head coach. He was more known for style than actual results. .500 record, zero playoff wins, lots of obnoxious things said and done over that time. I mean, yes, the Eagles were an exciting team when he was coaching them but they didn't really accomplish much overall because they kept losing in the playoffs. He ran up the score on the Cowboys, so....yay? He never won a playoff game there, got shitcanned and then punched Gilbride down in Houston as DC (and that team never did anything either). He went to the Cardinals and didn't do shit there.

Even the 46 defense, on which he hung his hat, eventually became obsolete, and in a big way. No wonder it was Marino who cost the Bears an undefeated season, he was exactly the QB who could expose that d's weakness to the crossing patterns and quick releases. And many more QBs today can make those passes. The 46 is deader than Abe Lincoln.

And of course he's blessed us all with his fratboy douchebag blabbermouth overrated asshole sons who have also never really accomplished anything expect garnering attention for themselves.

So meh. I'd be interested in hearing more from Eagles fans, because my outsider's view is that as a head coach, he's one of the most overrated, overhyped guys ever.

FWIW--He is credited for a lot of the defensive success the Jets had when they beat the Colts in SBIII. He wasn't the coordinator, but is said to have come up with the defensive scheme to stop the Colts.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Jun 29, 2016

JayMags71 said:
Well Chicago's only loss that year was when they played the Dolphins. So, if your hypothetical Super Bowl happened, it's likely to be remembered the in the same breath as SB XLII.

Yes I know. But that game was played in Miami. On a neutral field? I'm not so ready to say the Dolphins would have beaten them.

mwonow · Jun 29, 2016

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Yes I know. But that game was played in Miami. On a neutral field? I'm not so ready to say the Dolphins would have beaten them.

I'm not even sure that I would have taken the Phins in a rematch in Miami - that was a really, really good Bears team

Rick Burlesons Yam Bag · Jun 29, 2016

Steve makes a good point, that teams really didn't run the offense needed to beat the Bears after that Miami game, which is kind of weird. After Andy Reid and Jim Johnson came up with a defense that slowed down the Patriots in 2007 every team the Pats faced ran that exact same defense in every game, even when it wasn't a great fit for their personnel.

Remagellan · Jun 29, 2016

joe dokes said:
FWIW--He is credited for a lot of the defensive success the Jets had when they beat the Colts in SBIII. He wasn't the coordinator, but is said to have come up with the defensive scheme to stop the Colts.

Did you ever watch that game in its entirety? The Colts went up and down the field on the Jets and then blew chance after chance in the red zone. Morrall made so many bad decisions in the red zone that if there was the slightest suggestion that the game was fixed, I'd believe it.

I was in Philly for Buddy's reign with the Eagles, and a friend and I used to make a weekly habit of going to Rib-It, a now defunct rib place in Center City, when Buddy held his radio show there to listen to him spew crap like "Mark Bavaro is the only Giant tough enough to play for me." (Somehow I think he would have found room on his squad for Lawrence Taylor.)

Buddy failed because he, like Rex, put all his focus on his defense and did not give enough attention to the other side of the ball. He used to brag that "Randall just needed to run around and make a few plays" and his defense would take care of the rest. Running around and making a few plays does not constitute a championship caliber offensive philosophy.

He was fun, but ultimately a failure here. But there are a number of yahoo Eagles fans that prefer him to Andy Reid because they would rather a team that beats their opponents up than beats them.

Van Everyman · Jun 30, 2016

BigSoxFan said:
Are the Ryan brothers going to dedicate their upcoming 7-9 season to Buddy?

It begins:

“This season means a hell of a lot to us,” Rex told Jenny Vrentas of TheMMQB.com while driving to Kentucky for Buddy’s funeral. “Our name, our legacy, means a hell of a lot. Our dad is recognized as being one of the great defensive coaches, probably arguably the best, in the history of the game. You can’t say he’s not in the top five, certainly. And we’ve been pretty successful through the years ourselves, but nothing like we want to be. We have won five Super Bowls as a family, but we want to win our sixth at some point. And I want to win it as a head coach, because that has never been done in our family. Obviously, it’s not like these teams are going to roll down for us. We have to earn everything we get, and we’re a long-ass way away from it. It’s going to take a ton of work. But I really like my team.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/06/30/rex-ryan-this-season-means-a-hell-of-a-lot-to-us/

This season is going to be absolutely insufferable.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Jun 30, 2016

In that quote:

us, our, our, our, we've, ourselves, we, we, we, our, I, our, us, we, we, we're, I, my.

The Ryans are absolutely breathtaking in their pure narcissism.

Van Everyman · Jun 30, 2016

No better tribute to Buddy, really.

DanoooME · Jun 30, 2016

And they'll go 6-10

Buddy Ryan Dead at 82

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