Patriots Offseason News and Notes (non-transactions)

Shelterdog

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Pretty sure they can tender him at the lowest level per this article. Posted the relevant part below. Those are the 2016 tender numbers.



I guess the leverage Butler has is even though the Pats can offer him a low tender. Another team can offer him more than the tender offer and they have the right to match that offer.

So they could tender at 1.8 for 2017, someone could offer him $10m for 2017 and the Pats only recourse is to match at that price. I'm assuming the Pats could offer any of the three tenders listed, with the top two resulting in a draft pick if he goes elsewhere.
Another team can likely structure the contract to make it hard or impossible for the Pats to match it so you'd expect the Pats to tender him at the first round level.
 

Ed Hillel

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Right, and they still could lose him to a contending team with a late pick, but at least they'd get a first rounder out of it. I'd rather a 5-year extension at 75% market value, of course.
 

lithos2003

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This is great news if true. Get something done now and lock Butler up long term.

I'm sorry, how is this great news? "Our #1 CB is under contract for next year but is pulling a Revis! That's awesome news!" He's under contract for 2016 already and through other articles/twitter posts it's been said that he's holding himself out of voluntary workouts in protest. From Mike Reiss:

“Butler has told teammates and friends he plans to push for an adjustment to his contract before the 2016 season, and staying off the field in voluntary workouts would be a decision that limits injury risk and also could be viewed as a statement to the organization that he’s unhappy with the status quo and/or the movement/specifics of contract talks. Butler was present for the team’s “Fantasy Camp” with high-paying sponsors Wednesday and was playing basketball at a local high school with teammates two weeks ago, so it’s not as if he hasn’t been around. But I think it’s fair to say it’s a situation to monitor in the weeks and months ahead. Butler’s agent, Derek Simpson, didn’t return multiple calls or emails seeking comment late last week.”

Read more at: http://nesn.com/2016/05/report-malcolm-butler-seeking-new-patriots-contract-after-pro-bowl-season/
I would love for them to extend him but I don't think he's going to make a ton more money this year... Also, in the past, not showing up to voluntary workouts hasn't helped players negotiate new contracts so we'll see I suppose.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I'd much rather spread out his hit of $15 million a year or that how he works out once he hits free agency to something longer term and buy out his next year and restricted years for setting him up for life.

Him playing out his contract is not a good thing for the pats in the Long term unless he's a bust.

He's not going to OTA as in optional. It's the only leverage he has.
 

lithos2003

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I know but you're taking his hold out as a given that something will get done and that it's a good thing.. I guess I see "great news" as the contract is done to the details that you mention, not that we're heading into a training camp filled with "will he show up?" rumors.
 

dcmissle

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I'd much rather spread out his hit of $15 million a year or that how he works out once he hits free agency to something longer term and buy out his next year and restricted years for setting him up for life.

Him playing out his contract is not a good thing for the pats in the Long term unless he's a bust.

He's not going to OTA as in optional. It's the only leverage he has.
And he would be an idiot to surrender that leverage. We fans need to check the laundy at the door -- the work outs are v-o-l-u-n-t-a-r-y. The assholery of fans when it comes to OTAs is something to behold.

You have to play hard ball with the Pats, as a player does with any other team. You just do because these owners WILL take advantage of you if you don't. Vince Wilfork says hi.
 

lithos2003

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And he would be an idiot to surrender that leverage. We fans need to check the laundy at the door -- the work outs are v-o-l-u-n-t-a-r-y. The assholery of fans when it comes to OTAs is something to behold.

You have to play hard ball with the Pats, as a player does with any other team. You just do because these owners WILL take advantage of you if you don't. Vince Wilfork says hi.
I'm not saying he should give up that leverage or that he shouldn't play hard ball.. I was just trying to understand how the beginning of a contract dispute could be considered a good thing. This could always go the Logan Mankins route if negotiations go south. What if he gets so frustrated that he starts skipping mandatory activities? Training camp? Preseason games?
 

NortheasternPJ

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He is not in a contract dispute. He has stated he'd rather get paid now and work out a deal using his leverage in voluntary workouts without putting himself at a disadvantage in holding out during non voluntary.

It's not laundry rooting at all. He can be set for life with no risk and benefit the teams cap or he can hold out until free agency and risk coming up with jack shit for a career net worth. It is in Boths best interest to giving him a huge paycheck now and set him up for life. If he wants to gamble and play it out good for him. He'll prob earn an extra $10+ million doing so.

I wouldn't hold it against him either way. It's his life and his gamble. He's 2 years removed from working at a low wage job if BB didn't call. It's up to him.
 

PedroKsBambino

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The pats have long had the choice to negotiate with Butler now or later. They have to this point chosen 'later' at all points in time.

He is forcing the issue to do so 'now' instead

The team might make a deal that takes advantage of spreading the cap hit into this year, but don't kid yourself: their actions to date make clear it would be their preference to wait instead.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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They've had one season of him proving to something more than a one hit wonder. I don't think a lot of people would really criticize them for not running right out and giving him a huge contract after one game or even waiting for him to put up a full season of performance. Your conclusions as to their intentions or efforts to this point are complete speculation.
 

Super Nomario

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Maybe I'm crazy, but I would think the Pats won't sign Butler to a big deal. They cut Law, let Asante walk, let Talib walk, declined Revis' option - I don't think they're interested in paying a CB $10 MM+ over a long-term period.

Depending on how Cyrus Jones and guys like Roberts and Coleman play in camp, would a Mankins-like trade shock anybody? Would be fitting with Belichick's MO IMO.
 

jsinger121

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Maybe I'm crazy, but I would think the Pats won't sign Butler to a big deal. They cut Law, let Asante walk, let Talib walk, declined Revis' option - I don't think they're interested in paying a CB $10 MM+ over a long-term period.

Depending on how Cyrus Jones and guys like Roberts and Coleman play in camp, would a Mankins-like trade shock anybody? Would be fitting with Belichick's MO IMO.
Law was over 30 when they cut him and coming off an injury, Asante was never a number 1 corner in the Pats eyes, Talib could never stay healthy when it mattered and Revis wanted to money plus he was over 30 as well. Butler is young and really good a major difference from all of them.
 

Super Nomario

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Law was over 30 when they cut him and coming off an injury, Asante was never a number 1 corner in the Pats eyes, Talib could never stay healthy when it mattered and Revis wanted to money plus he was over 30 as well. Butler is young and really good a major difference from all of them.
I don't know what they thought of Asante internally, but he was coming off a First-Team All-Pro selection when they let him walk. The larger issue is that there is no precedent for the Pats investing that much in a CB. You never say never with Belichick, but unless Butler is going to sign for less than we think - possible given his size and the league-wide trend towards bigger corners - I'd expect him to be elsewhere in 2017.
 

lithos2003

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Maybe I'm crazy, but I would think the Pats won't sign Butler to a big deal. They cut Law, let Asante walk, let Talib walk, declined Revis' option - I don't think they're interested in paying a CB $10 MM+ over a long-term period.

Depending on how Cyrus Jones and guys like Roberts and Coleman play in camp, would a Mankins-like trade shock anybody? Would be fitting with Belichick's MO IMO.
This is exactly why I was harping on NortheasternPJ for saying it was "great news" that Butler was starting to use his leverage to get paid. I mean, I think he's a great corner and I'm all for players using their leverage to get paid, but I think we as fans need to take off those rose-colored glasses for a bit and realize that it may not be the Patriots who pay him.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I think this is a better alternative than the "i'll play my contract out then test free agency" (aka the Scott Boras plan) if the Pats want him long term, which I'm hoping they do. I agree the Pats don't want to pay a fortune for a CB and we've seen that, but if they believe in Butler (who knows what they think of him long term) this is an opportunity to lock him up long term and not pay full market rate of a free agent.

I don't see Butler actually holding out on anything that really matters, but i could be wrong. Who knows what he really wants as well. If he wants $15 million year, then I agree he's gone or will play it out. I would not expect Butler to be back if he hits free agency.

We're looking at the cap, based upon Overthecap going up $45 million by 2019, which would be $75 million higher than when Asante got 5/$57 from the eagles.
 

pappymojo

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I kind of feel like this is much ado about nothing. I like Butler and I wish him a productive career no matter what uniform he ends up wearing in four years.

For now, though, I think the Patriots have all the leverage.

Butler signed a three year contract in 2014 for $1,500,000. This is the last year of his contract and he is due to earn $600,000. He is a restricted free agent next year. Is someone who has earned about $1 million dollars walking away from $600,000? And even if worst case scenario he sits out this year, what does that gain him?

In 2017 he will be a restricted free agent which means the Patriots can keep him through the application of a tender. Let's assume that a first round tender means Butler will get a $4 million one year contract.

In 2018 the Patriots could then use the franchise tag on him. I agree that this is an extreme option but the simple fact is that the Patriots have the leverage to keep Butler on their team through the next three years (including this year). For 2016 a franchise tag on a cornerback would mean a $14 million dollar one year contract.

So, altogether, Butler could potentially earn about $19 million over the next three years. Of course, only $600 thousand of that will be earned this year and he is exposed to serious injury risk. If he gets hurt this year, he could be out a lot of money. I can't blame the guy for sitting out of optional team activities when it represents such a significant risk.

To extend Butler now, I think something in the ballpark of 4 years/$20 million gets the job done. For Butler this lessens his injury risk and it provides him with more of his projected income this year while also still allowing him to hit free agency (big payout) when he is 30 years old. For the Patriots, this type of extension allows them to lock in a key piece of their team for an extra year, it makes the player happy (happier at least), and it allows them to more evenly spread the cap hit for his projected salary over multiple years.



Relevant links:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/08/nfl-sets-restricted-free-agency-tenders-for-2016/
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25499237/here-are-the-2016-nfl-franchise-tag-and-transition-tag-numbers-for-every-position
 

Ed Hillel

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I'd expect him to be elsewhere in 2017.
So you think somone's going to give up a first rounder and pay him more than the Pats are willing to? Certainly the Pats are at least willing to offer the tender.

Papi, I agree with what you say, though -despite posing the above question -, I wouldn't be surprised to see a contending team give up a late first and pay him big, a la Seattle with Branch. I don't know how high of a probability Butler and his agent think that is, though.
 

Stitch01

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I don't know what they thought of Asante internally, but he was coming off a First-Team All-Pro selection when they let him walk. The larger issue is that there is no precedent for the Pats investing that much in a CB. You never say never with Belichick, but unless Butler is going to sign for less than we think - possible given his size and the league-wide trend towards bigger corners - I'd expect him to be elsewhere in 2017.
Id see this as more likely than a Mankins like trade unless he becomes a real untenable distraction (and we don't have any reason to expect that yet). Id expect he's behind Collins and Hightower on the extension priority list (although, of course something could get done with Butler sooner, particularly because the Pats have more leverage there).

Would it shock me if he has a good year if he gets tendered for the 1st and ends up signing elsewhere or getting traded? No.
 

Zeus21

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Id see this as more likely than a Mankins like trade unless he becomes a real untenable distraction (and we don't have any reason to expect that yet). Id expect he's behind Collins and Hightower on the extension priority list (although, of course something could get done with Butler sooner, particularly because the Pats have more leverage there).

Would it shock me if he has a good year if he gets tendered for the 1st and ends up signing elsewhere or getting traded? No.

One also has to take into account that Butler, while nearing the end of his first contract, is older than the normal first time eligible player. He obviously understands that this is likely his only opportunity to cash in.
 

tims4wins

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ESPN has the point spreads for every game - no surprise, the Pats are favored in every game except week 1 at Arizona. If Brady is clearly playing that may change too.
 

m0ckduck

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Eek: Mike Reiss on ESPN.com news feed just now...

"Top story from Patriots practice was brief scare with TE Martellus Bennett. Walked off slowly under own power and had left leg/knee examined."
 

tims4wins

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Eek: Mike Reiss on ESPN.com news feed just now...

"Top story from Patriots practice was brief scare with TE Martellus Bennett. Walked off slowly under own power and had left leg/knee examined."
Mike Reiss ‏@MikeReiss 34m34 minutes ago


Bennett returned shortly after and caught a Tom Brady pass on first snap. Bennett has been getting top reps with Rob Gronkowski out. (2/2)
 

Harry Hooper

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I love reading about stuff like this; "....Bennett said after one of the sessions that among the things he and Brady were focusing on was what each tilt of the head means."

From NFL.com's Judy Battista

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000668260/article/patriots-doing-just-fine-during-another-offseason-of-uncertainty
Definitely fun to read, but Battista gets a bit silly with this part:

Does it even dent the Pats' title hopes if Brady has to sit out those four games?

The Patriots are so stocked with talent on both offense and defense right now that it is hard to imagine Garoppolo, with the benefit of two offseasons of intensive work -- and two offseasons of Belichick and Josh McDaniels planning their approach -- could not navigate the first four games with the help and health of Gronkowski, Edelman, Blount and Amendola. Not to mention, the newly arrived tight endMartellus Bennett and the defense of Jamie Collins, Malcolm Butler, Terrance Knighton and Dont'a Hightower.
It's not hard to imagine in an actual game JG floating a pass too high or into a defender's path that gets one of the key offensive talents absolutely rocked and on IR. Yes, Brady could do the same, but the odds increase with JG playing.
 

Granite Sox

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I take your point, but don't forget Brady routinely got Welker killed, and has thrown Burgertyme onto Queer Street several times as well. Brady knows Edelman is fearless to a fault. Amendola is similar as well. The difference between Brady and Garoppolo, arguably, is that a hospital ball from JG would be the result of a poorly thrown ball, as opposed to a pass from Brady leading a WR into a crushing hit for the sake of a 3rd down conversion.
 
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Papelbon's Poutine

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It's not hard to imagine in an actual game JG floating a pass too high or into a defender's path that gets one of the key offensive talents absolutely rocked and on IR. Yes, Brady could do the same, but the odds increase with JG playing.
This works just as well but taking out the bolded and substituting "intercepted at a crucial part of the game or leads to a pick six".
 

mwonow

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Does anyone know who on the Pats current roster would be practice squad eligible, with the 2 accrued seasons allowance?