Your preferred Celtic target at #3

Your choice (sorry trade is not among the choices, since that obviously depends on the trade target)

  • Bender

    Votes: 56 46.7%
  • Hield

    Votes: 12 10.0%
  • Dunn

    Votes: 21 17.5%
  • Murray

    Votes: 15 12.5%
  • Brown

    Votes: 5 4.2%
  • Chriss

    Votes: 11 9.2%

  • Total voters
    120
  • Poll closed .

Minneapolis Millers

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The point at which Boston can top Russell and Ingram is the point where they've gutted the team, and I'm not sure people like Boogie enough to come play with him.
Well, I don't think Russell's value (on-court or in the locker room) is as high as you apparently do, but regardless, you missed my next sentence. I don't think LA or Boston is interested in gutting their respective teams.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Rozier is not a PG?
Maybe I'm parsing too finely but I see him as a Monta Ellis scoring guard-type who is capable of covering ball-handling duties but won't be the maestro of an offense. I don't think the distinction really matters for Ainge and Stevens in the end. I think their ideal offense features two guys on the floor at all times who are "point guard-capable."
 

Sprowl

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Maybe I'm parsing too finely but I see him as a Monta Ellis scoring guard-type who is capable of covering ball-handling duties but won't be the maestro of an offense. I don't think the distinction really matters for Ainge and Stevens in the end. I think their ideal offense features two guys on the floor at all times who are "point guard-capable."
Yes, two players who can initiate the offense off the dribble is a must (or at least, it's the only way to keep other teams from keying their defense on Thomas every single play). Bradley, Smart, Olynyk and Turner were the secondary initiators / playmakers last year. Rozier showed good dribble control, but the game has not slowed down enough yet for him to be a primary point guard.

If the Celtics draft Bender, a big man project (Labissiere? Stone? Zuzic/Zubic/Zhou?) and a Eurostash, Evan Turner may yet be back in town.
 

Koufax

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Rozier isn't a primary point guard, but he is primarily a point guard. This does not affect the Celtics' use of the #3 pick in any way however. Best player available and all that.
 

nighthob

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Well, I don't think Russell's value (on-court or in the locker room) is as high as you apparently do, but regardless, you missed my next sentence. I don't think LA or Boston is interested in gutting their respective teams.
By the end of the season Russell was playing pretty well, and due to age still has upside as he fills his body out. He clearly has more upside than Boston's young guard. And that's the difference, regardless of what you think of their future prospects, LA's kiddie corps is full of high upside kids while Boston's really isn't. So Boston needs to break into the guys that they'd like to keep in order to outbid the Lakers.
 

nighthob

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If the Celtics draft Bender, a big man project (Labissiere? Stone? Zuzic/Zubic/Zhou?) and a Eurostash, Evan Turner may yet be back in town.
If they draft Bender I'm not expecting other big man projects. My guess is that you'll see guys like Taurean Prince and high upside guards like Malachi Richardson or Dejounte Murray thereafter. As for ET, I sincerely doubt that they'll pay the toll on him.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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My dream scenario is that this becomes the sequel of the 2003 draft where Simmons goes #1 just like LeBron, whoever picks #2 takes the 18 year-old sky-is-the-limit Euro big man, and we snatch up the talented scoring wing coming off a successful freshman NCAA campaign for a major D1 program. I guess Dunn would be the DWade in this analogy, a talented upper classmen guard who turns into an elite player.
Back in 2003 when there were many advocating for Darko over Carmelo at 2 I never understood it. I looked at his tape and his accomplishments on the court in Europe and thought he was a horrible choice at 2. That actually was the correct analysis. To be honest, I have the same thoughts on Bender. Little in the way of actual accomplishment in Europe and the limited vertical bothers me. I think he has bust written all over him personally. My gut more than anything else. He screams Darko 2.0 to me.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Back in 2003 when there were many advocating for Darko over Carmelo at 2 I never understood it. I looked at his tape and his accomplishments on the court in Europe and thought he was a horrible choice at 2. That actually was the correct analysis. To be honest, I have the same thoughts on Bender. Little in the way of actual accomplishment in Europe and the limited vertical bothers me. I think he has bust written all over him personally. My gut more than anything else. He screams Darko 2.0 to me.
Can you imagine the hype Simmons would be getting right now had he not had his flaws exposed when rotting at the end of a Euro bench while Bender was at LSU asked to carry a dysfunctional team with mostly awful teammates? I see more Splitter potential than I do Porzingis in Bender.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Can you imagine the hype Simmons would be getting right now had he not had his flaws exposed when rotting at the end of a Euro bench while Bender was at LSU asked to carry a dysfunctional team with mostly awful teammates? I see more Splitter potential than I do Porzingis in Bender.
Really? Splitter has never hit a three in an NBA game and has never seemed particularly comfortable facing up. I do agree that the Porzingis comps are overblown- poor man's Dirk or Kukoc is more apt from what little I've seen. It's a good question as to what he would've done as an NCAA freshman. Ellenson or Chriss type numbers as his ceiling, with Skal as his floor? Korkmaz, on the other hand, I'm convinced would've put up good numbers in any conference in the country.
 

TheDeuce222

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Really? Splitter has never hit a three in an NBA game and has never seemed particularly comfortable facing up. I do agree that the Porzingis comps are overblown- poor man's Dirk or Kukoc is more apt from what little I've seen. It's a good question as to what he would've done as an NCAA freshman. Ellenson or Chriss type numbers as his ceiling, with Skal as his floor? Korkmaz, on the other hand, I'm convinced would've put up good numbers in any conference in the country.
Seriously. When people compare him to Splitter (not a lot of range, thick, sub-par passer, not a guy who runs the floor particularly well) I really question whether they've watched any Bender highlights or tape or read more than the most cursory scouting report. I'm hardly an expert on the guy, but it's honestly hard to find two guys over 6'10 who have more dissimilar games than Bender and Splitter.
 

TheDeuce222

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Just remember the cardinal rule - because the player is European, he must be compared only to other European players
 

Cellar-Door

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Just remember the cardinal rule - because the player is European, he must be compared only to other European players
Ready for one that will drive people insane, a cross-continent, cross-racial comparison:

Bender is like a taller Draymond Green.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Seriously. When people compare him to Splitter (not a lot of range, thick, sub-par passer, not a guy who runs the floor particularly well) I really question whether they've watched any Bender highlights or tape or read more than the most cursory scouting report. I'm hardly an expert on the guy, but it's honestly hard to find two guys over 6'10 who have more dissimilar games than Bender and Splitter.
I wasn't very clear as the two have much different games. I was referring to their overall impact as role players at this level. Bender doesn't appear to have the natural fluidity as Porzingis to have his type of upside. A better actual comp for style would be Ellenson.
 

snowmanny

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What's the argument for Hield over Murray, who seems to have a similar skill but is three years younger?
 

Cellar-Door

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What's the argument for Hield over Murray, who seems to have a similar skill but is three years younger?
I don't agree with it, but the argument is that Hield is an elite shooter while Murray is not.

I'd be disappointed with either at 3, but more so with Hield.
 

mauf

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What's the argument for Hield over Murray, who seems to have a similar skill but is three years younger?
The argument is Murray might never become the player Hield already is.

I mean, I'm with you on preferring Murray over Hield, but we shouldn't too lightly gloss over the fact that Hield is the better player of the two right now.

I think Murray is the obvious pick if Danny doesn't like Bender and no one makes a compelling offer.
 

LondonSox

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The argument is Murray might never become the player Hield already is.

I mean, I'm with you on preferring Murray over Hield, but we shouldn't too lightly gloss over the fact that Hield is the better player of the two right now.

I think Murray is the obvious pick if Danny doesn't like Bender and no one makes a compelling offer.
3 years is a big age gap. It seems exceptionally likely Murray in three years will be better than hield. But of course you know what hield is right now. I'd always take the talent and prospect over the older OK player. What's hield's upside?
 

DannyDarwinism

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3 years is a big age gap. It seems exceptionally likely Murray in three years will be better than hield. But of course you know what hield is right now. I'd always take the talent and prospect over the older OK player. What's hield's upside?
I don't know that I'd say that it seems exceptionally likely that Murray, if he stayed at Kentucky, would have one of the best offensive seasons in college basketball history. But more importantly, due to Hield's significant advantages in length and lateral quickness, he projects as a much better defender than Murray, who I think will always be a liability on D. Unless you de-value guard defense, Murray would need to be significantly better on offense to make up the difference. As far as Hield's upside, I'd say maybe 85% of Klay Thompson- not quite the defender, passer or shooter that Klay is, but not too far off. I also think he has a fairly safe median projection as someone like Reddick, with a good shot at a Michael Redd/Ben Gordon type career as a volume scorer.

FWIW, I just googled Klay and Buddy to compare some college stats, and came across this Nylon Calculus article comparing their college trajectory: http://nyloncalculus.com/2016/03/24/the-rise-of-buddy/. Also found this quote from Klay Thompson himself: “He’ll be a great scorer,” Klay Thompson told CSNBayArea.com this week. “He works so hard. He’ll be a tenacious defender. He’s physically gifted. He’s going to help somebody. He’s going to make a big impact. Whatever team drafts him in the Top 10, well, personally for me, I think he’s top-three, at least top-five pick. But if he slips into that six to 10 range, some team is going to get really lucky.”

I don't particularly want him at 3, as I don't think he's likely to be better than Bradley any time soon, but for a team in need of a shooting guard, he checks enough boxes to warrant a lottery pick.
 

nighthob

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In defense of Hield's defense, he was Oklahoma's first, second, and third offensive option, so staying out of foul trouble was job one for him. In the NBA I don't think he's better than a second or third option, so on a contender it won't be a problem. Even in Boston it wouldn't be as much an issue due to their reliance on depth over quality to roll up regular season wins. He has the proper size to play the SG spot, unlike Bradley, so he has considerably more potential.
 

kazuneko

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The argument is Murray might never become the player Hield already is.

I mean, I'm with you on preferring Murray over Hield, but we shouldn't too lightly gloss over the fact that Hield is the better player of the two right now.

I think Murray is the obvious pick if Danny doesn't like Bender and no one makes a compelling offer.
It's interesting, Dunn really seems like the type of player Danny would normally prefer. He's essentially Marcus Smart with better ball handling, passing and shooting. Obviously this team has a glut of PGs, but will he really pass up a player like that for Murray, whose lack of lateral quickness probably leads to him being a longterm liability on D? If Danny believes Hield can become even close to Danny Darwinism's "85% of Klay Thompson" ceiling, that may be a good reason to prefer Hield to Murray. Danny has always showed a preference for guards that can perform on both sides of the ball, and its easier to see him believing that Hield - at least more than Murray- can be that type of player. For Danny to choose Murray he'd have to believe that he has far and away more potential as a scorer than Hield. And yet I don't see many people predicting greatness out of Murray. It seems like there are enough questions about both his defense and ability to create own shot that he is more likely the type of player that "because of his lack of athleticism and lateral quickness...is better off as a sixth man that feasts on bench units" (Kevin O'Connor, SB Nation).
 

kazuneko

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Btw, I have a question. Is it crazy to be thinking that Marquesse Chriss should be getting more consideration at this spot (or that perhaps the Cs should be trading down to pick him)?
Chriss's primary issues appear to be fundamentals, discipline and consistent effort - particularly on the defensive end- but he is also only 18 years old. He is 6ft 10' and an athletic freak with the type of star-level offensive upside that is exactly what most teams in the lottery most need. Also, unlike Murray, his issues on the defensive end of the floor have nothing to do with unfixable, physical limitations. Honestly, when you look at this draft, Chriss feels like he is on the short list of players that has the talent to eventually become a star..
 

bowiac

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Btw, I have a question. Is it crazy to be thinking that Marquesse Chriss should be getting more consideration at this spot (or that perhaps the Cs should be trading down to pick him)?
Chriss's primary issues appear to be fundamentals, discipline and consistent effort - particularly on the defensive end- but he is also only 18 years old. He is 6ft 10' and an athletic freak with the type of star-level offensive upside that is exactly what most teams in the lottery most need. Also, unlike Murray, his issues on the defensive end of the floor have nothing to do with unfixable, physical limitations. Honestly, when you look at this draft, Chriss feels like he is on the short list of players that has the talent to eventually become a star..
Chriss doesn't rebound or pass. It's hard to be a good player if you do neither. He has issues with motor and defensive effort. That's fixable perhaps, but it's also easier said than done. By BPM, he was a decent, but not especially good college player.

He's young, but apart from a decent 3PT% on low attempts, he's displayed little in the way of skills to build on in the NBA. I know everyone loves upside and athleticism, and that's not nuts, but he's too far off the deep end there for me.
 

BigSoxFan

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Agreed. If Ainge wants to gamble on youth and raw ability, Bender is the guy. If he wants the safe play, Hield or Dunn is the guy. If he wants a little bit of both, then it's probably Murray.

I've probably changed my mind about 1,000 times already on who to go with. Right now, my top 3 is Bender, Dunn, Hield. I could see Bender being a solid new age stretch 4 but the lack of familiarity scares. There just isn't much to go off of. I think Dunn is poised to hit the ground running. Shot may take some time to develop but should improve and will be an impact defensive player from Day 1. Finally, Hield may be a little older but Game 6 of the WCF showed the value of a guy who is lights out from long range. In a league that is becoming more and more 3pt oriented, the Celtics are pretty short on long range bombers. IT/Bradley with Hield/Smart off the bench would be 48 minutes of high intensity defense and shot making for coaches to deal with and would give Ainge some trade options should Rozier develop into something useful (not entirely sold on him doing so but we'll see).

Murray just doesn't do it for me. Nice shooter but I really don't see him as more than a 6th man combo guard on a good team or a starting SG on a bad one. Don't think there's much PG potential there.
 

RedOctober3829

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Agreed. If Ainge wants to gamble on youth and raw ability, Bender is the guy. If he wants the safe play, Hield or Dunn is the guy. If he wants a little bit of both, then it's probably Murray.

I've probably changed my mind about 1,000 times already on who to go with. Right now, my top 3 is Bender, Dunn, Hield. I could see Bender being a solid new age stretch 4 but the lack of familiarity scares. There just isn't much to go off of. I think Dunn is poised to hit the ground running. Shot may take some time to develop but should improve and will be an impact defensive player from Day 1. Finally, Hield may be a little older but Game 6 of the WCF showed the value of a guy who is lights out from long range. In a league that is becoming more and more 3pt oriented, the Celtics are pretty short on long range bombers. IT/Bradley with Hield/Smart off the bench would be 48 minutes of high intensity defense and shot making for coaches to deal with and would give Ainge some trade options should Rozier develop into something useful (not entirely sold on him doing so but we'll see).

Murray just doesn't do it for me. Nice shooter but I really don't see him as more than a 6th man combo guard on a good team or a starting SG on a bad one. Don't think there's much PG potential there.
I see Murray's ceiling as Jeff Teague. Not what you want out of the #3 pick. If they pick there, the 3 options to me right now are Bender, Hield, and Jaylen Brown with Kris Dunn an option if they plan on trading a guard. Right now with Thomas, Smart, Bradley, and Rozier that 1/2 spot is filled up with pretty similar players. I don't see Dunn giving them something that much different at least off the bat. I like Dunn as a player and on the Celtics he'd be a good fit if they ended up trading one of those 3 guards. Bender has the highest upside of anyone outside the top 2 and as you said gives you a tremendously talented stretch 4. That is something they need. Hield would give them something they don't have in a big time shooter. His defense scares me, but he can light it up. Jaylen Brown is a crazy athletic wing who can create his own shot. He is still a bit of a project but has such raw ability the upside is very tough to turn down.
 

BigSoxFan

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Tonight's game once again highlighted the value of 3pt shooting and pick-and-roll defense in today's NBA. Point: Bender and Hield.
 

Valek123

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I'd go Hield, second only to Curry in 3s as a senior from what I've read and shot something like 46% from 3. He provides immediate option to stretch the floor, and with the volume of picks they should be able to package for some veteran help.
 

kazuneko

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Questions about Bender:

1. How the heck can we really gauge his potential from the information available? The videos I've seen appear to be against competition so incomparable to the NBA as to make them feel (at least to my untrained eye) virtually useless. Even worse, what I do get from them is not at all entirely positive. I mean, he's tall, runs the floor pretty well, and can pass well against low level competition. I guess his outside shot looks okay - but he also seems to be poorly defended by much shorter players and inclined towards bringing the ball fairly low before shooting. More troubling: he is easily thrown off by almost any level of physicality - even by shorter, skinny defenders. I mean, what would a much less heralded prospect like Marquesse Chriss do against that competition?

2. I'm a bit confused why is there so much excitement generated by a guy whose projected as having a Darko (ie. complete flop) floor and a Nikola Mirotic ceiling? For such a risky pick (especially if you are taking him with the #3) shouldn't he at least have more upside than that? I don't know, Bender feels more like a scratch ticket than a lottery ticket - and as much as I'd be happy to have him with the #16 pick I'm not sure why you'd take him when players like Dunn, Hield, Murray and Brown are available.
 
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DJnVa

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2. I'm a bit confused why is there so much excitement generated by a guy whose projected as having a Darko (ie. complete flop) floor and a Nikola Mirotic ceiling?
I'm not a Bender guy, but saying his projected ceiling is Mirotic makes it seem like you're cherry picking projections.
 

bowiac

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More troubling: he is easily thrown off by almost any level of physicality - even by shorter, skinny defenders. I mean, what would a much less heralded prospect like Marquesse Chriss do against that competition?
I would imagine he would be an even less impactful player than he was in college. The Euroleague is usually thought to be a much stronger league than the NCAA. This is both from a scouting perspective, as well as from the various statistical translation systems. Yes, you need to take the level of competition into account, but that applies to all the prospects. None of them are playing against anything close to the NBA.

2. I'm a bit confused why is there so much excitement generated by a guy whose projected as having a Darko (ie. complete flop) floor and a Nikola Mirotic ceiling?
I feel like this comment warrants an update of TheDeuce222's comment from above: Just remember the cardinal rule - because the player is Eastern European, he must be compared only to other Eastern European players.
 
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Cellar-Door

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Questions about Bender:

1. How the heck can we really gauge his potential from the information available? The videos I've seen appear to be against competition so incomparable to the NBA as to make them feel (at least to my untrained eye) virtually useless. Even worse, what I do get from them is not at all entirely positive. I mean, he's tall, runs the floor pretty well, and can pass well against low level competition. I guess his outside shot looks okay - but he also seems to be poorly defended by much shorter players and inclined towards bringing the ball fairly low before shooting. More troubling: he is easily thrown off by almost any level of physicality - even by shorter, skinny defenders. I mean, what would a much less heralded prospect like Marquesse Chriss do against that competition?

2. I'm a bit confused why is there so much excitement generated by a guy whose projected as having a Darko (ie. complete flop) floor and a Nikola Mirotic ceiling? For such a risky pick (especially if you are taking him with the #3) shouldn't he at least have more upside than that? I don't know, Bender feels more like a scratch ticket than a lottery ticket - and as much as I'd be happy to have him with the #16 pick I'm not sure why you'd take him when players like Dunn, Hield, Murray and Brown are available.
1. How do you gauge college players then, since the NCAA level is below what Bender plays. As an example, Bender played 26 minutes in his last playoff game, the majority of it was against either James Singleton, a former NBA player, or Charles Rhodes, a former All-SEC player who was a borderline NBA guy (had a few summer league runs) and has played in some of the most desirable Euro leagues. As for Marquesse Chriss, if he were on Maccabi he probably wouldn't play at all.

2. His Ceiling is much much higher than Mirotic, his ceiling is an All-Star player, something like a bigger Kirilenko or a taller Draymond Green. Mirotic is closer to his floor than his ceiling. This is a guy who has been considered a likely top 5 pick in the NBA draft since he was 15.
 

kazuneko

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I would imagine he would be an even less impactful player than he was in college. The Euroleague is usually thought to be a much stronger league than the NCAA. This is both from a scouting perspective, as well as from the various statistical translation systems. Yes, you need to take the level of competition into account, but that applies to all the prospects. None of them are playing against anything close to the NBA.
So I appreciate the response. Since my original post I've watched more videos of Bender and ended up figuring out that the original video I had seen (which prompted my last post) was a bit old and not very representative of the type of competition he usually plays against.

2. His Ceiling is much much higher than Mirotic, his ceiling is an All-Star player, something like a bigger Kirilenko or a taller Draymond Green. Mirotic is closer to his floor than his ceiling. This is a guy who has been considered a likely top 5 pick in the NBA draft since he was 15.
This still seems surprising to me. The media coverage I've read (which granted is a limited amount of articles from mainstream sources) paint Bender as much more of a high ceiling/ low floor player than that, with most emphasizing the risk that he'll be a total bust (i.e a much lower floor than Mirotic). So I am not saying i agree or disagree with your assessment of him, but am curious to hear more. Do you feel that the whole "could he be the next Darko" meme is entirely unfair? I would assume that young European players - if only because of the differences between the games and their youth- would be riskier and had assumed that Bender was probably the most risky of all the players being discussed for this pick. I'm asking not so much because I disagree with your assessment (I'd be the first to admit that I don't have any idea how to assess a player like Bender) but to generate more discussion about him as I think he has a high chance of being the #3 pick..
 
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Cellar-Door

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This still seems surprising to me. The media coverage I've read (which granted is a limited amount of articles from mainstream sources) paint Bender as much more of a high ceiling/ low floor player than that, with most emphasizing the risk that he'll be a total bust (i.e a much lower floor than Mirotic). So I am not saying i agree or disagree with your assessment of him, but am curious to hear more. Do you feel that the whole "could he be the next Darko" meme is entirely unfair? I would assume that young European players - if only because of the differences between the games and their youth- would be riskier and had assumed that Bender was probably the most risky of all the players being discussed for this pick. I'm asking not so much because I disagree with your assessment (I'd be the first to admit that I don't have any idea how to assess a player like Bender) but to generate more discussion about him as I think he has a high chance of being the #3 pick..
I think the "next Darko" total bust is a bit of a media crutch. Most of the draft people I trust seem to think that at the very least Bender's passing will translate, and that he's likely to be at least a decent defender (with upside to be more). I also think people make a mistake in assuming a low floor for Euros, if anything I think on average they have higher floors because they already play pro basketball and have had to fit into a role which college players rarely have.

That's what I mean when I say Bender has a decent floor, of course basically every player in the draft has a floor of "everything goes wrong out of the league", but if scouts are correct that Bender can play OK defense and move the ball at 7', he has a bench role in the league even if his scoring doesn't develop.

Also reading my post, I probably wasn't clear enough. I think Mirotic is a solid bench PF, maybe he grows from that. My point wasn't that he is Bender's floor, but more that I think the difference between Bender's floor (bench big) and Mirotic (first big off the bench) is closer than the difference between first bench big and Bender's ceiling (All-Star).
 

Jimbodandy

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Are there any well-rounded players outside of the top 2, who themselves aren't perfect? We're talking about an OK defense, good passing big man as the #3 pick. Is our best hope that another GM falls in love with someone so badly that we're able to package 3+ for a real NBA player?
 

nighthob

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Are there any well-rounded players outside of the top 2, who themselves aren't perfect? We're talking about an OK defense, good passing big man as the #3 pick. Is our best hope that another GM falls in love with someone so badly that we're able to package 3+ for a real NBA player?
That would be the best case scenario, but I doubt they're getting the sort of player they want, and there's no real sense in trading it for more of what they have (average/above average NBA players). Personally I think their best bet is a trade back into the later lottery range for whatever else they can get to pick off a slider or someone from the Chriss/Labissiere/Ellenson pool.
 

ifmanis5

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Tonight's game once again highlighted the value of 3pt shooting and pick-and-roll defense in today's NBA. Point: Bender and Hield.
GSW's three point ability has teams in fear. All they need is a few stops and they can erase a 10 point deficit in 2 minutes. We saw it in the Thunder series a few times. The big question for the league is can this be replicated? Curry and Klay are pretty outlier with their accuracy but I think a lot of teams are going to go for it (shooting lots of 3's) anyway so the value of Hield is probably going up.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Do you feel that the whole "could he be the next Darko" meme is entirely unfair? I would assume that young European players - if only because of the differences between the games and their youth- would be riskier and had assumed that Bender was probably the most risky of all the players being discussed for this pick. I'm asking not so much because I disagree with your assessment (I'd be the first to admit that I don't have any idea how to assess a player like Bender) but to generate more discussion about him as I think he has a high chance of being the #3 pick..
There has been a sea change in scouting since Darko was the #2 pick. Joe Dumars admitted that when he picked Darko, he didn't have much tape - in fact, he said that he had maybe "two sources of information," plus the NBA world wasn't scouting overseas like they do now. (See also http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2012/06/darko_milicic_mistake_changed.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+detroit-pistons+(Detroit+Pistons+Impact+-+MLive.com)).

People have been watching Bender for a couple of years now. He was playing in a second-division Israeli league at what, 17. He's been to a bunch of top-flight camps. People are pretty sure he's going to be better than Saric. For example, here's a report on him from earlier in the seaso (https://capstrategist.com/2015/10/21/2016-nba-draft-preseason-top-5/):

2.Dragan Bender: Maccabi Tel Aviv
7’0.5” 216 (7’2” Wingspan, 9’3” Standing Reach, Max Vertical 27.5”)
Age: 17 (11/17/1997)
Center/Playmaking 4


Positional Size: Bender is all legs and arms right now with a frail frame, but he has insane measurables for a playmaking 4 (and even plus measurables for a 5), especially when you factor in his coordination and skill level.

Athleticism: This category is obviously Bender’s bugaboo as he isn’t an explosive vertical leaper, which caps his finishing upside in traffic. But vertical explosiveness is only one attribute of overall athleticism. 80% of the game is played moving laterally or backward, and for his size Bender is incredibly mobile laterally and recovering. He runs like a deer in transition and beats bigs consistently down the floor.

Feel: Similar to Simmons, Bender has outstanding feel for the game as a passer. In the limited tape I’ve seen, he has a knack for advancing the ball immediately in transition with Love-esque outlet passes and has demonstrated dominant passing instincts from the high post locating cutters and shooters. Patenting his game after idols like Kukoc, Bender might not ever be a go-to scorer, but he brings an unselfishness and passing instincts seldom found in bigs.

Skill Level: It’s hard to find players 7’1” who can take the ball coast to coast through a maze of defenders. His overall skill level for his size is basically unprecedented. He’s reportedly put in a ton of time on his three point shot over the summer, and showed promise as a spot-up threat in Chicago. He has the handle, passing skills and developing shot to be a triple threat making plays/reads attacking closeouts.

Overall: Often unwarrantedly compared to Porzingis, Bender is infinitely more skilled and has far greater wiggle and creativity as a playmaker. Defensively, Bender will obviously struggle some with strong post-players/rebounders until he fills out, but he projects as a fantastic pick and roll defender with his length, mobility and recovery ability. If he puts on more weight as expected he could be a dominant 5 in the league with his mobility, length and skill level, but he is easily skilled enough and enough foot-speed to play the 4 spot. He’s still 17, which is beyond bizarre, and could very well move up to #1 on my board. To say I’m intrigued is an enormous understatement.
 

moly99

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Jun 28, 2007
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Not only has scouting improved, but even drafting Darko blind he managed almost 500 games and over 8,000 minutes. Hasheem Thabeet is less (in)famous, but probably a bigger bust as a number 2 pick out of college. Darko only seems worse because he was drafted ahead of Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwayne Wade.

The problem with so many of the early Euro players was really an issue of "don't draft a guy purely on measurables."
 
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BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
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GSW's three point ability has teams in fear. All they need is a few stops and they can erase a 10 point deficit in 2 minutes. We saw it in the Thunder series a few times. The big question for the league is can this be replicated? Curry and Klay are pretty outlier with their accuracy but I think a lot of teams are going to go for it (shooting lots of 3's) anyway so the value of Hield is probably going up.
I think it's the way the league is going. The Spurs have been an elite 3pt shooting team the past few years. They clearly saw this trend and adjusted. I'm sure part of that was out of necessity as Duncan got older.

Now, nobody is going to perfectly replicate what GS has. They basically have the new age Pippen/Jordan on their team. Curry is only 28 and Thompson is only 26. Unless injuries happen, they're going to be elite for at least another 5-6 years as shooters tend to age well. Additionally, Draymond is only 26 and is a guy who should age well too. The rest of the pieces will change but are replaceable. There will be a new Bogut. There will be a new Iggy at some point but the other guys can be replaced.

In order to beat these guys, you need a frontcourt that can really move around and some perimeter threats that can match the Splash Brothers for periods of time. OKC was probably 1 reliable shooter away from beating them. SA is right there as well with a core of Kawhi and Aldridge.

When I look at the Celtics, I see a frontcourt that needs a ton of work. I have no use for Sullinger going forward, Olynyk is not a starter on a contender, and Amir is a JAG. On the flip side, we really only have 1 guy in IT who can create looks and put pressure on the defense. I see a need for both Bender and Hield. In today's NBA, you can't trade 2's for 3's.
 

the moops

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Jan 19, 2016
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I think it's the way the league is going. The Spurs have been an elite 3pt shooting team the past few years. They clearly saw this trend and adjusted. I'm sure part of that was out of necessity as Duncan got older..
Yet they went out and signed Aldridge and shot 4 fewer threes per game this year than last year and won the second most games in the NBA.

But your point stands that teams need to adjust, but smart teams will adjust to what the talent they have is capable of doing.