Clay Buchholz: Rolaids Relief Man

HomeRunBaker

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CB's sawtooth performance really makes one wonder just how someone can be so consistently inconsistent. Inject his injury history and one wonders if that is the root of the problem, or if there is more of a mental element involved. Either way, it's clear that putting him out there every 5th day is like opening up a door that lead's into a vacuous black hole.
I wouldn't characterize Clay as inconsistent as that implies we don't know what we are getting out of him on any given start. He's actually fairly predictable......when he's going good he's freakin awesome, when he's not he's freakin awful. Many pitchers go through stretches like Clay, Bryan Harvey is in the same boat as Clay right now, it is head scratching however how Clay can be in this type of funk every other season.
 

mt8thsw9th

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He's still the only player I could think of who actually publically demanded to get traded under this ownership group.
And what does that have to do with the clubhouse? His teammates begged him to stay. Dude wanted to head back to the west coast. I can hardly blame him for that.

And you don't remember another player who publicly demanded a trade?
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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And what does that have to do with the clubhouse? His teammates begged him to stay. Dude wanted to head back to the west coast. I can hardly blame him for that.

And you don't remember another player who publicly demanded a trade?
No. I didn't remember that at all. Guess it just got mentally filed with the rest of the Manny-being-Manny stuff.
 

TheoShmeo

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My assumption is that Clay will be sent to the pen. They cannot give him another start in the face of his abject suck and Eduardo's last performance in AAA.

I further assume that they would do that only because they view him as "starter injury insurance" given the slim pickings in AAA. They also probably don't want to DFA him and see him elsewhere go on one of his 10 game runs before breaking down.

The thing that kills me is that Ross, Layne and Hembree are all more useful in the pen in my view. A lot more.

Are there other options? Can the DL him for mental health break reasons?
 
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Savin Hillbilly

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He's actually fairly predictable......when he's going good he's freakin awesome, when he's not he's freakin awful.
But the predictability is only at the results level, and even there, it's basically predictable unpredictability. What's maddening about Clay is that his repertoire and tendencies keep morphing, and it's tempting to think that some particular wrinkle is the culprit, but his track record is such a random mess that it's hard to tease out any clarity. If you want to drive yourself insane sometime, spend an hour on his brooksbaseball player card page and see if you can make sense of it.

One thing seems clear about this year: he's become a flyball pitcher, and it's not working. But that's about all I've got.
 

czar

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My assumption is that Clay will be sent to the pen. They cannot give him another start in the face of his abject suck and Eduardo's last performance in AAA.

I further assume that they would do that only because they view him as "starter injury insurance" given the slim pickings in AAA. They also probably don't want to DFA him and see him elsewhere go on one of his 10 game runs before he breaking down.

The thing that kills me is that Ross, Layne and Hembree are all more useful in the pen in my view. A lot more.

Are there other options? Can the DL him for mental health break reasons?
It's a horribly SSS, but outside of Hembree's first week in Boston, he's been pretty mediocre peripherally. In fact, in aggregate, he actually has a worse SwStr% than Buchholz, so if all you want Hembree to do is chew up 2-3 innings when needed (I think we all agree that guys like Ross, Layne, Barnes are ahead of him in the MR pecking order), then Buchholz could do that.

I still think DL is the easiest "break" for all parties involved. I'd rather have Buchholz take some time off then make 5 starts in Triple-A to try and find 2015 version of himself (even a marginally better 2016 version is still better SP depth than Owens, O'Sullivan, etc.) than just give up and stick him in the pen for the rest of year. Seems like an imperfect allocation of resources.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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My assumption is that Clay will be sent to the pen. They cannot give him another start in the face of his abject suck and Eduardo's last performance in AAA.

I further assume that they would do that only because they view him as "starter injury insurance" given the slim pickings in AAA. They also probably don't want to DFA him and see him elsewhere go on one of his 10 game runs before breaking down.

The thing that kills me is that Ross, Layne and Hembree are all more useful in the pen in my view. A lot more.

Are there other options? Can the DL him for mental health break reasons?
Brian Johnson just went on the inactive list to seek treatment for anxiety issues, so it's not outside the scope of the disabled list for it to be used for mental health reasons, but I'd imagine there would have to be a formal diagnosis rather than just "he needs a break".

Even if there isn't a mental health break option for the DL, I think a general "shoulder fatigue" would cover it just fine.
 

lexrageorge

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The team would need to be careful with any DL stint. Smaller market teams would cry foul if bigger market teams started using the 15-day DL as a de-facto taxi squad, and the league office would not take kindly to teams' using the DL in that manner.

I'm not naive enough to believe such moves don't happen across the league from time to time. Just want to point out that if Clay doesn't go on the DL, it's not because the front office is stupid and ignorant of the rules around roster management.

On a slightly related note, I do believe the team is approaching the 30 day limit on the rehab assignment for Ed Rod. So they may be at the point where they have to either recall him or give him another 15 days off before his next AAA start.

EDIT: I forgot Ed Rod still had options remaining. Thanks Red(s)HawksFan.
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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The team would need to be careful with any DL stint. Smaller market teams would cry foul if bigger market teams started using the 15-day DL as a de-facto taxi squad, and the league office would not take kindly to teams' using the DL in that manner.

I'm not naive enough to believe such moves don't happen across the league from time to time. Just want to point out that if Clay doesn't go on the DL, it's not because the front office is stupid and ignorant of the rules around roster management.

On a slightly related note, I do believe the team is approaching the 30 day limit on the rehab assignment for Ed Rod. So they may be at the point where they have to either recall him or give him another 15 days off before his next AAA start.
Or simply remove him from the DL and option him to Pawtucket without sitting him down at all.
 

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No. I didn't remember that at all. Guess it just got mentally filed with the rest of the Manny-being-Manny stuff.
Remember, they placed him on waivers during the offseason (I'm sure Bowlerman will correct me if waivers is incorrect) and nobody claimed him. He didn't ask for a trade after that.

PS - With the minor league board changes I'm not sure if it was noticed that Owens walked 5 and hit 3 last night in 3 1/3 innings.

I'd like to see Clay DL'd for 2 weeks and then rehab for 4 and see what we have. He'd be ready right after the ASB which makes the timing good to me. If someone is sucking and he's pitching good in ml, he gets a shot. If not and the ML staff isn't set, DD might go shopping if anyone decent is available at a fair price. Crap, with the dearth of SP expected to be available, CB could be the hottest commodity out there if he does well on a rehab assignment.
 

TonyPenaNeverJuiced

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I'm not in a place to get screen grabs/make gifs, but I've been noticing Clay dipping his throwing arm lower than usual this year. He's always had a very heavy arm dip with both his windup and stretch deliveries, but it seems exaggerated as of late. Sometimes he also seems to have a deeper backleg/right knee dip.

This would have the affect of his arm not being able to come to a proper release point, and the ball staying up in the zone, and breaking pitches staying much flatter (along with a dip in velocity). Now, it's not SO bad that he's pulling any Rick Ankiel's, but it could explain why, when he looks generally steady, mechanics wise, start to start and season to season, there's been very, very different results.
 

stp

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Buchholz seems like a poor candidate for the bullpen. A lot of his struggles seem to be early in the game. Maybe my memory is faulty, but I recall that early in his career there was talk of putting him in the bullpen for the playoffs when he returned from an injury, but he required a longer warm up time than most relievers.
 

benhogan

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Calling up Erod before he is 100% is a terrible idea. He is a 23YO with a very bright future for many years to come. You don't call him up early and hope he performs well. He changed up his delivery for his last start and, despite the strong results, his velocity was still low 90s. If you call him up before he has complete trust in his knees I'd be very concerned that he overcompensates for his knee by placing more stress on his shoulder.

The more logical call-up would be Elias who has had back to back strong outings. See if you can catch lightning in a bottle for two to three times through the rotation while you figure out if Erod improves.
Agreed. Obviously you don't call up EdRo before he is fully healthy. I trust DD/JF would not pitch EdRo unless he is ready to go.
 

FanSinceBoggs

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I would keep Buchholz in the rotation for a few more starts. I would demote Rodriguez and let him regain his velocity in AAA before using him in the major league rotation. You have to wonder if Rodriguez's knee is going to be an issue all season. The Red Sox need to trade for a starter. Once they acquire one, they can deactivate/release Buchholz, assuming Buchholz doesn't show improvement over the next few starts.

It is too bad that Owens can't throw strikes--this would have been a great opportunity for him. They can't rely on Johnson or Elias, either. The starting rotation depth has really thinned out.
 

TheoShmeo

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I would keep Buchholz in the rotation for a few more starts. I would demote Rodriguez and let him regain his velocity in AAA before using him in the major league rotation. You have to wonder if Rodriguez's knee is going to be an issue all season. The Red Sox need to trade for a starter. Once they acquire one, they can deactivate/release Buchholz, assuming Buchholz doesn't show improvement over the next few starts.

It is too bad that Owens can't throw strikes--this would have been a great opportunity for him. They can't rely on Johnson or Elias, either. The starting rotation depth has really thinned out.
I understand your points about ERod and the fact that they have no other viable options in the minors right now.

But the deadly combination of the results over the last several starts, Buck's body language on the mound last night and the fact that he seemed pretty resigned to being demoted after the game, I think we are looking at a guy whose confidence is completely shot. Not that I know whether the problem is ability or confidence or both, and not that the distinction really matters. Whatever the cause, he is awful. In my view, starting Clay in those next two outings would be virtually conceding two looses, and I'm willing to take the chance that ERod at something short of 100% gives them a better chance to win than Buck does. I also think that Eduardo's last start -- results and length -- gives the Sox reason to believe that he is pretty close to ready, if not fully ready.

PS:

Back to the point about using Clay as a reliever, in addition to the fact that Clay is likely less useful than every guy they have in the pen right now, it's arguable that they also have better pen options in AAA. From Over the Monster:

The one thing not to do with Buchholz, though, is try him in the bullpen. Not right away. Not even after a DL stint, really. The Red Sox have a full unit right now, and frankly, between Kyle Martin, Anthony Varvaro, and Pat Light--perhaps even Wesley Wright--plenty of better relief option in Pawtucket than Buchholz. There's neither room or need for him, and just because the Red Sox can do that with their beleaguered starter doesn't mean they should.
http://www.overthemonster.com/2016/5/27/11795712/dfa-or-dl-clay-buchholz-has-no-place-in-the-bullpen
 
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Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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I also think that Eduardo's last start -- results and length -- gives the Sox reason to believe that he is pretty close to ready, if not fully ready.
Unless velocity is something that they're focused on.

Personally, there is no way I'd bring Edro up until his velocity improved. This team gave Gilbert O'Sullivan 2 starts. They can roll the dice with Elias for a couple until Edro is ready or, less likely, Clay is fixed.
 

TheoShmeo

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Unless velocity is something that they're focused on.

Personally, there is no way I'd bring Edro up until his velocity improved. This team gave Gilbert O'Sullivan 2 starts. They can roll the dice with Elias for a couple until Edro is ready or, less likely, Clay is fixed.
Fair point. I may be letting my Buchholz pessimism cloud my judgment on his spot in the rotation. I agree on Elias (or even O'Sullivan) instead of Clay.

That the organization's starting pitcher depth is this weak is a huge problem, to write the obvious. Shades of 2011 in that regard.
 

YTF

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I think DL is the best option for the guy. That said, how do they sell it after last night's postgame interviews with Farrell and Buchholz? Paraphrasing, but Farrell essentially said the Buchholz is fine physically and Buccholz stated more than once that physically he hasn't felt this good in 2 1/2 years. Personally I would try to push for a case of whiplash from watching balls being deposited over The Monster. Dude must have a neck like and owl.
 
I think DL is the best option for the guy. That said, how do they sell it after last night's postgame interviews with Farrell and Buchholz? Paraphrasing, but Farrell essentially said the Buchholz is fine physically and Buccholz stated more than once that physically he hasn't felt this good in 2 1/2 years. Personally I would try to push for a case of whiplash from watching balls being deposited over The Monster. Dude must have a neck like and owl.
 

nattysez

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I don't think DL'ing him is realistic. MLB is not going to let them get away with such an obvious phantom DL stint.

I think waiving him with an understanding that the Sox will send him to AAA once he clears waivers is viable. Is there really a high likelihood that another team is going to take on a $10mm salary for a guy who has pitched as poorly as Buchholz has?
 

czar

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Fair point. I may be letting my Buchholz pessimism cloud my judgment on his spot in the rotation. I agree on Elias (or even O'Sullivan) instead of Clay.

That the organization's starting pitcher depth is this weak is a huge problem, to write the obvious. Shades of 2011 in that regard.
Saw a couple folks say this on Twitter, too. O'Sullivan is equally as bad of a pitcher as Buchholz (as we sit right now, that doesn't even speak to their career rates) without any of the potential upside.

Elias has pitched better and if this team is gunshy about ERod (I agree with people who are concerned about the lack of velocity, lack of swings and misses, etc and that he's only one start off a full setback), but it's tough to make the argument that O'Sullivan (or even Owens) are better options than even pretty crappy Buchholz (that might say more about how bad O'Sullivan/Owens have been than Buchholz, obviously).

Not sure I agree with the second bolded, either. The Royals had pretty terrible SP depth last year and won the World Series. Most teams don't have more than a guy or two in AAA who could be effective for an entire season at the MLB level if called on tomorrow. It's one thing if a team heads into a season with like 3 starters and expects to throw **** against a wall for the reset of the year, but it's unrealistic to have Pawtucket be full of potential #3/4 MLB starters. Hell, some people on this board were up in arms the Sox didn't pay Rich Hill $6m to sit in AAA. If they are good enough to be big league starters, why would they settle for being depth?
 

czar

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Also, if you were to replace Clay Buchholz with (insert league replacement Joe) for 2016 to date, they'd be tops in the AL in FIP (as is, they are only 0.06 behind the Astros).

Buchholz is a problem, but the team's SP in aggregate hasn't been as big of an issue as sports radio thinks it is.
 

geoduck no quahog

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So there must be talk about the excruciating Buchholz with men-on-base (excruciating is not a strong enough word).

Last night he sailed through the first 3 innings and looked pretty good (no men on base). Blackmon led off the 4th with a hit, LeMahieu grounded out on an 2-0 count and 1 batter later Gonzalez homered after starting out 2-0. Reynolds then went 3-0 before grounding out.

5th inning: single/homer, single/homer...then 3 outs with the bases empty.

I'm sure it's been asked, but can this guy pitch under any stress? Is there a reason he throws to 1B a thousand times each game? Is it just his stretch mechanics? There needs to be an explanation of why he can look so good and look so bad in the same inning. Don't find any links to a discussion about that.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I don't think DL'ing him is realistic. MLB is not going to let them get away with such an obvious phantom DL stint.

I think waiving him with an understanding that the Sox will send him to AAA once he clears waivers is viable. Is there really a high likelihood that another team is going to take on a $10mm salary for a guy who has pitched as poorly as Buchholz has?
Thing is, Buchholz has to agree to go to AAA should they DFA him. Even if he clears waivers, he can refuse the assignment and force the team to trade or release him. If you were him and given the choice between getting the entirety of your contract with the freedom to go where ever you can find a team that wants you to pitch in the big leagues, and going to Pawtucket to ride buses for who knows how long (rest of the season?), which is the more likely choice?

If they DFA him, it's with the purpose of being rid of him for good. There is no "send him to AAA and hope he figures it out" unless it's a DL rehab assignment.
 

TheoShmeo

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Saw a couple folks say this on Twitter, too. O'Sullivan is equally as bad of a pitcher as Buchholz (as we sit right now, that doesn't even speak to their career rates) without any of the potential upside.

Elias has pitched better and if this team is gunshy about ERod (I agree with people who are concerned about the lack of velocity, lack of swings and misses, etc and that he's only one start off a full setback), but it's tough to make the argument that O'Sullivan (or even Owens) are better options than even pretty crappy Buchholz (that might say more about how bad O'Sullivan/Owens have been than Buchholz, obviously).

Not sure I agree with the second bolded, either. The Royals had pretty terrible SP depth last year and won the World Series. Most teams don't have more than a guy or two in AAA who could be effective for an entire season at the MLB level if called on tomorrow. It's one thing if a team heads into a season with like 3 starters and expects to throw **** against a wall for the reset of the year, but it's unrealistic to have Pawtucket be full of potential #3/4 MLB starters. Hell, some people on this board were up in arms the Sox didn't pay Rich Hill $6m to sit in AAA. If they are good enough to be big league starters, why would they settle for being depth?
I'm not getting on a soap box for O'Sullivan. He sucks too. My point was less about him than they need to start someone other than Buck until he gets his shit together, if ever.

As to depth, I don't think it's a death knell and agree that teams can win without good starting reinforcements in AAA. But the fact that we're even discussing the likes of Sean O'Sullivan right now underscores that it is a problem.
 

YTF

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I didn't catch this in Farrell's postgame, but can't imagine that it wasn't asked. Has anyone heard an explanation for sending Buchholz back out to pitch in the top of the 6th inning. He had someone up and throwing in the 5th and I have to believe ready to start the 6th. Not a whole lot of love for the guy, but making Buchholz walk off to a chorus off boos, just seemed a shitty thing to do.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I didn't catch this in Farrell's postgame, but can't imagine that it wasn't asked. Has anyone heard an explanation for sending Buchholz back out to pitch in the top of the 6th inning. He had someone up and throwing in the 5th and I have to believe ready to start the 6th. Not a whole lot of love for the guy, but making Buchholz walk off to a chorus off boos, just seemed a shitty thing to do.
Have to figure that since Buchholz was still under 80 pitches at that point, he sent him back out to try to steal a couple more outs before taxing his bullpen. That and Buchholz, after giving up the two HRs in the fifth, got the last three hitters in order. Maybe he figured Clay had gotten back to what got him through the first three innings untouched.
 

nattysez

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Thing is, Buchholz has to agree to go to AAA should they DFA him. Even if he clears waivers, he can refuse the assignment and force the team to trade or release him. If you were him and given the choice between getting the entirety of your contract with the freedom to go where ever you can find a team that wants you to pitch in the big leagues, and going to Pawtucket to ride buses for who knows how long (rest of the season?), which is the more likely choice?

If they DFA him, it's with the purpose of being rid of him for good. There is no "send him to AAA and hope he figures it out" unless it's a DL rehab assignment.
Even if he clears waivers, I find it hard to believe that any cellar-dweller is going to hasten to pick him up AND immediately put him into the rotation. I think he'd be much better off going to AAA and getting straightened out than going home and hoping that someone gets desperate enough to sign him. I guess we'll see.
 

YTF

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Have to figure that since Buchholz was still under 80 pitches at that point, he sent him back out to try to steal a couple more outs before taxing his bullpen. That and Buchholz, after giving up the two HRs in the fifth, got the last three hitters in order. Maybe he figured Clay had gotten back to what got him through the first three innings untouched.
I hear what you're saying, but at that point you're down four runs with four more shots at trying to score, not impossible given this offense. So if your going to pull him as soon as another potential run gets on base, why not just get him out of the game? Dude's damaged goods right now and IMO there is something to be said for not sending him back out there. And of course I realize that hindsight is 20/20, but it just didn't make much sense to me.
 

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Even if he clears waivers, I find it hard to believe that any cellar-dweller is going to hasten to pick him up AND immediately put him into the rotation. I think he'd be much better off going to AAA and getting straightened out than going home and hoping that someone gets desperate enough to sign him. I guess we'll see.
But if he goes to AAA, he's stuck there. He's at the mercy of the Red Sox to bring him back (or not). Not exactly an ideal situation. If he forces his release, he at least has some control in where he ends up next (and if it's home, so be it). And for the pro-rated league minimum, I think there'd easily be a handful of teams willing to pick him up, especially if a pitching coach or two thinks he knows how to fix him.
 

nattysez

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I'm curious to see who goes to make room for ERod if they're keeping Buchholz.
 

Sprowl

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Meh. Velocity looks fine, location a little off -- too much groove, not enough edge. I think Clay's troubles are a mix of the temporary
  • failure to paint (he has not yet hit the edges this year like he did in 2015, 2013, 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2007)
  • good guessing by batters -- Cargo guessed curve, got curve
  • or somebody somewhere has figured out something in his motion, and he's giving the offspeed away
and the permanent
  • squirrels.
I'll take the high ceiling, even with squirrels nesting in the insulation. Three more starts for Clay. EdRo not ready. Ruinous Elias and O'Sullivan never. Owens WTF?
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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I'm curious to see who goes to make room for ERod if they're keeping Buchholz.
Pretty obvious call is Hembree, who Farrell's been using as long man/mop-up, and who has options.

This is better than a DFA, I suppose, but still don't think much of Clay as a relief arm.
 

AimingForYoko

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I'm not too thrilled about this but I don't know what else they would do with him since I don't think they'd just DFA him.

I just don't see much use for him in the pen seeing as how the squirrels start running when men are on base.

There's always a chance he'll be useful and help them out though.
 

Maximus

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Who wants to trade for him at this low point?
Please let me know a likely trade partner and what the expected return is.
An NL team with a good pitching coach where a GM thinks a change in scenery will benefit him. Return will be dependent if DD will packages other assets for another target asset. Just a hunch.
 

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Wait for injuries on a playoff-bound NL team that has a weak bottom of the rotation and may need to take a flyer. Pirates, maybe?
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Wanted to go back to something lexrageorge referred to upthread.

I hate watching Clay Buchholz. His pace makes Josh Beckett look like Tim Wakefield, and the degree to which he nibbles makes Daisueke look like Rich Garces. I don't think I can remember seeing him smile since the no-hitter. All of which I could forgive, but for the fact he's responsible for the Red Sox losing an awful lot of games this year.

However... I've never heard anything about his not enjoying Boston, and not being a good team player. When he signed his current contract, it was widely viewed as below-market and a sign of how much he wanted to remain a Red Sox.

http://m.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/alex-speier/2011/04/10/extension-reflects-coming-age-clay-buchholz
"I owe a lot, just about everything, to the Red Sox," Buchholz continued. "They drafted me. They gave me an opportunity to come up in Boston and pitch even though the couple of down years. There's always going to be doubts. This game's not near as easy as some of the guys make it seem sometimes. But I definitely got to the highest point of the highs in this game, and then it took its toll on me and I thought I was better than I was at the time. Just the fact that they stuck with me through those hard situations allowed me to make this decision. It's a really good feeling."
He's volunteered to pinch hit and pinch run. He seems to be a regular at team charity functions. And his gut-it-out performance in the 2013 World Series should ensure he too never has to buy a beer in this town again.

Plus his wife is ridiculously hot, so there's that.

So I wonder if asked to just accept the assignment to Pawtucket, with a promise that he'd be back in Boston or be offered his unconditional release after 3 AAA starts, he might just go along. Seems like the best thing for the team, and for Clay's rehabilitation as a good pitcher. [If not necessarily for Clay's ego or his understandable preference for good hotel rooms.] It worked for Max Scherzer and Roy Halladay, anyway...
 

am_dial

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No. I didn't remember that at all. Guess it just got mentally filed with the rest of the Manny-being-Manny stuff.
With apologies for the digression: I kind of can't believe that one of this board's longest-running jokes ("Why did he sign here if he just wants to get traded?": "Get a gun" must be older, as is megatarp, but $10 for DRS isn't) has been forgotten.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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So I wonder if asked to just accept the assignment to Pawtucket, with a promise that he'd be back in Boston or be offered his unconditional release after 3 AAA starts, he might just go along. Seems like the best thing for the team, and for Clay's rehabilitation as a good pitcher. [If not necessarily for Clay's ego or his understandable preference for good hotel rooms.] It worked for Max Scherzer and Roy Halladay, anyway...
Difference being that Scherzer and Halladay got sent down when they still had options and no choice in the matter.

If the deal is 3 AAA starts and a recall or release, then the counter to that from Clay is to agree to go on the DL with a hangnail or dead arm or some other minor thing and doing those 3 starts as part of a rehab assignment. That way, at least he has more than their word that he'll be brought back in a timely manner. And there's zero risk that some team out there will snag him off waivers. That's the biggest thing. If we're going with the premise that the Sox aren't ready to give up on him and Clay doesn't want to leave, then the potential that some other team is going to swoop in and snatch him up (say, the Yankees...what have they got to lose adding ~$10M to the payroll?) has to be worst-case-scenario for both sides.
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2008
12,408
Seems like panic to me. Rodriguez still lacks velocity and isn't striking anyone out. He screams not ready. His command and secondary stuff is cringeworthy. Kelly became Kelly again tonight. Owens is basically a lost cause at this point. Johnson never impressed me and he's DL'ed anyway. Elias has been very promising his past 2 starts, and was an effective starter when healthy, but he's a 4/5 in an organization full of 4/5s.

If I was replacing Buchholz it would be with Elias, but my priority would remain fixing Buchholz. He's the only potential # 2 and maybe even #3 in the organization above Greenville until Rodriguez's velocity goes back to mid-90s. He's one of the best 7 starters in the organization even as broken as he is right now, and probably still better than ERod at 89 mph. DFA would be batshit crazy. Hopefully the break and some video and side work is all it takes.
 

Fishy1

Head Mason
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
6,093
Seems like panic to me. Rodriguez still lacks velocity and isn't striking anyone out. He screams not ready. Kelly became Kelly again tonight. Owens is basically a lost cause at this point. Johnson never impressed me and he's DL'ed anyway. Elias has been very promising his past 2 starts, and was an effective starter when healthy, but he's a 4/5 in an organization full of 4/5s.

If I was replacing Buchholz it would be with Elias, but my priority would remain fixing Buchholz. He's the only potential # 2 and maybe even #3 in the organization above Greenville. He's one of the best 7 starters in the organization even as broken as he is right now. DFA would be batshit crazy. Hopefully the break and some video and side work is all it takes.
I agree with this assessment. This team could be headed for trouble if any of a couple of things happen - Wrights k rate craters or BB rate goes up (function of a wild or tumbling knuckler), Porcello goes back to leaving his two seamer in the top of the zone, or if the offense gets cold all at once.

What I'm getting at is very simple, essentially: we want all the insurance we can get in case the rotation blows up. Buchholz finding his form in the bullpen would be the ideal insurance.
 

simplicio

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 11, 2012
5,153
Seems like panic to me. Rodriguez still lacks velocity and isn't striking anyone out. He screams not ready. His command and secondary stuff is cringeworthy. Kelly became Kelly again tonight. Owens is basically a lost cause at this point. Johnson never impressed me and he's DL'ed anyway. Elias has been very promising his past 2 starts, and was an effective starter when healthy, but he's a 4/5 in an organization full of 4/5s.

If I was replacing Buchholz it would be with Elias, but my priority would remain fixing Buchholz. He's the only potential # 2 and maybe even #3 in the organization above Greenville until Rodriguez's velocity goes back to mid-90s. He's one of the best 7 starters in the organization even as broken as he is right now, and probably still better than ERod at 89 mph. DFA would be batshit crazy. Hopefully the break and some video and side work is all it takes.
Agreed, though I'm not ready to write off Kelly like that. 8 Ks in 4.2 is a good sign for him; it looked to me like he got a little unlucky, but mostly that loss is on Donaldson just having an unstoppable night.