Arsenal 2015-2016: The One That Got Away

mikeford

woolwich!
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2006
29,518
St John's, NL
I'm not sure I would say it's "cut rate costs," Mike. Sure they're not spending all of the money that is brought in, but they're also spending a lot of money in total.
Its not that much compared to other big clubs. Net spend since 12-13 is roughly 90m. Higher than Sp*rs or Chelsea (barely) over the same window (Sp*rs net spend is actually in the negatives thanks to the enormous Bale fee) but considerably lower than United, City or even Liverpool. Total spend is below all 5 teams I just mentioned.
 

sachmoney

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2008
9,513
Tim Thomas' Bunker
Too much time is spent going over net spend on transfers while not enough is spent on how much Arsenal spend on wages etc. Arsenal spends a ton of money on players. To use the term "cut rate costs" is blatantly incorrect.

I'm not sure if Jimbo was being sarcastic, but Ozil and Sanchez were not cheap. You could sell me on saying below market, but not on "cut rate." I'm not sure how to evaluate the Cech deal as most great goalkeepers aren't transferred still in the prime of their careers. I'd lean towards yes, it was "cut rate."

It's nice to finish second and above Spurs. That is something to enjoy out of a disappointing season. Yesterday was actually a lot more fun than anticipated. Thank you, Newcastle. We're now at the hope stage of the transfer window. I hope Wenger adds some pieces to make this team more robust. I hope that he can find and add a goalscorer.
 

sachmoney

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2008
9,513
Tim Thomas' Bunker
I'm not sure this is the thing I would choose to call Mike out on his negativity. Like Fletch said, Arsenal has the money to challenge (they spend that money worse than a small club with finite resources). The opportunity was there. I'm not sure there are many Arsenal fans on this board that would say this season hasn't been a disappointment.

Winning things:
Arsenal isn't going to win anything this year. The opportunity was there in the league. I myself thought they would do it after my trip to England in which I saw three home wins in person, though the warning signs were there (they struggled against Bournemouth and Newcastle, to be honest). Arsenal has struggled ever since (clearly due to my absence). Dropped points after dropped points, missed opportunity after missed opportunity. Arsenal isn't even guaranteed a Top Four spot with City and United both nipping at their heals.

The Champions League was a rough draw in that you got Bayern in the group and Barca in the Knockout. Regardless, you've got to be disappointed with both performances. Arsenal didn't completely struggle with Bayern, in fact, beating them in the first match. It was those dropped points in the first two games that made following the Champions League performances painful. I didn't expect anything from Barca, but the fact that Arsenal was able to stay with Barca for stretches and create goal scoring opportunities leave me lamenting the lack of quality up front. The best teams in the world have guys that take their opportunities. They have a Messi, Suarez, Neymar, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Muller(!!!!), Aguero. Even Vardy and Kane, who [Kane] I'd take over Giroud anyway, have been better than anything Arsenal has had.

Style of play
Under Arsene Wenger, Arsenal has been known to play a pretty attacking style. Playing this way can make up for some of the results. I love me some good team goals with brilliant build ups. This year's team has struggled mightily to score goals at times. It hasn't just been about when the goals are going to come, it's been about how. There has been a severe lack of chances created, let alone chances taken. There's been a lot of slow side to side passing without a lot of inquisition. This makes it hard to see where goals are going to come from versus making chances and not converting them. That's been better lately with the insertion of Iwobi, but for large stretches of the season, this team has been a struggle to watch. I would say that this has been the most painful team to watch since the season after Cesc left. That first year with Arteta was like watching a team kneed bread for 90 minutes, Jesus. Heck, this team might be more frustrating because of the opportunity to win the league.

Play against Rivals
If you're not going to win the league, you at least want to beat your rivals or make progress as far as having better performances. Well, first and foremost, it looks like Arsenal isn't going to finish above Tottenham for the first time since 1995. That's failure in and of itself. They beat a subpar United side at the Emirates, a team that Arsenal has consistently struggled with, then followed that up with a cartoonish loss in which they gave up 2 goals to a debutant. I'll still give them progress on this due to past struggles. They lost both times to Chelsea. I don't want to speak about either of those games. I saw them beat City at the Emirates. It was a good performance. Arsenal have done alright against City over the years though. We'll have to see how that match at the Etihad goes. Also, Arsenal beat the club that looks like they're going to win the league twice. There's some good mixed with the bad.

Overall
The season has been disappointing. Arsenal isn't winning anything. They had a chance to take the league and fell off. They didn't progress any further in the Champions League. They played worse football. If it wasn't for the mighty struggles of the other "top" clubs, Arsenal might find themselves buried in the table. This isn't negativity, it's reality.

If we're looking for good, there have been good individual performances. Ozil has been good. Cech has been good when healthy. Nacho has established himself as one of the best fullbacks in the Premier League. Iwobi looks like he may be a gem. It hasn't been enough to lift the side though.

It's shitty to do a post mortem with plenty still at stake, but there's a ton of resignation in this thread already.
Might as well quote myself and say that this did not happen. I don't think it necessary changes things as far as meeting my ambition for the club though. The way Arsenal finished 2nd took the most outlandish of scenarios. Hilarious for years to come? Yes. Reassuring for the coming year? No.

I also said that Walcott and Chamberlain could account for 15-20 goals in the league. Theo had 5. Ox had 1. Yes, I am calling myself out for this. I was wrong. They disappointed. I would not be unhappy if both of them left. I still think that fee wise, they'd garner quite a bit.
 

mikeford

woolwich!
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2006
29,518
St John's, NL
Walcott supposedly told Wenger if there's an offer to sell him, take it.

Silly season rumor mill and all that but West Ham is apparently interested.

Wouldn't exactly break my heart.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

RIP Dernell
SoSH Member
Mar 24, 2008
7,204
Walcott supposedly told Wenger if there's an offer to sell him, take it.

Silly season rumor mill and all that but West Ham is apparently interested.

Wouldn't exactly break my heart.
Walcott has been my anti-binkie for years. I'm willing to keep Ox around, as he's still only 22, but Walcott has never figured it out and never even looked like he was making strides to.
 

mikeford

woolwich!
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2006
29,518
St John's, NL
He did that one year he scored a shit load of goals.

That was, of course, his original "big contract year" after Arsenal's mass desertion of good players (RVP, Sammy the c*nt, Cesc, Clichy, etc)... hasn't done anything but backslide since then.


Speaking of silly season, SportBILD reporting an offer between 40-50m euros for Xhaka.
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
9,154
San Francisco
Too much time is spent going over net spend on transfers while not enough is spent on how much Arsenal spend on wages etc. Arsenal spends a ton of money on players. To use the term "cut rate costs" is blatantly incorrect.
Yes, this is so true. From the perspective of the buying club, there is no meaningful difference between spending on the transfer fee and spending on the wages of a given player. If we value a player at X dollars, then ideally X = transfer fee + wages and who cares how its sliced up as long as we get our man.

On the other hand, the public often only hears of the transfer fee, resulting in moves that appear to be head scratchers since we don't get the full picture.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,345
Philadelphia
The more videos I watch of him, the more I'm sold on Morata. He has a ridiculous combination of size, speed, and skill. He can be a hold up striker, he can play off the shoulder of the last man and run behind the defense and into the channels, and he has very good control in tight spaces. Obviously, goals are pretty critical for a striker and he hasn't scored many of them for Juve. But his goalscoring rate numbers aren't actually that bad (he just hasn't played many minutes).

I think he's worth a pretty serious gamble. It seems very likely that Madrid will buy him back from Juve and sell him somewhere else for a profit and we look like one of the clubs that make the most sense as a destination. I just hope that he doesn't kill it at the Euro and give Madrid second thoughts about selling him onward.
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
9,209
South of North
Agreed that Morata is world class, but if CRon is shipped out this offseason, I'd expect RM to hold onto him and rebuild the frontline around Benz, Bale, James, and Morata which sounds absolutely fearsome.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,345
Philadelphia
Agreed that Morata is world class, but if CRon is shipped out this offseason, I'd expect RM to hold onto him and rebuild the frontline around Benz, Bale, James, and Morata which sounds absolutely fearsome.
I could be wrong but my sense is that Ronaldo now plans to stay. But I agree that keeping Morata makes much more sense if they sell him (or anybody else from that front line).
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,345
Philadelphia
I suppose we should mention the imminent purchase and announcement of Granit Xhaka, no? I don't know him at all, but his reputation is excellent and he would seem to significantly increase Wenger's range of options in the midfield. (His name is also the stuff of headline-writers' fantasies.)
I've got a full blown stiffy on the Xhaka signing, having watched a million videos at this point. I think a hard-nosed DM who can really pass was as big a need for us as a new striker. We collapsed without Cazorla this year and now we'll have a ton of interesting options in midfield, which has turned into a real strength.

Xhaka - Santi = Pass circles around anybody with these two and Ozil in midfield.
Xhaka - Coquelin (AKA the "Granit Coq") = Rock solid foundation for tough away matches
Xhaka - Elneny = Solid with a bit more flair going forward, maybe my preferred duo.
Xhaka - Ramsey = I hope we don't see this too often but I suspect we will

In other news, the agent for Maxi Romero - the Argentine wonderkid striker who we almost signed last summer before he tore his ACL - seems to have confirmed(??) that we've reached a new agreement that simply hasn't yet been announced. If true, he would apparently stay at Velez Sarsfield for two more years, which wouldn't be a bad thing given that he only turned 17 in January.
 

The Gray Eagle

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
16,725

Infield Infidel

teaching korea american
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,463
Meeting Place, Canada
I've only watched him in a handful of matches, but Xhaka has real skill and steeliness in midfield, but also fouls a lot. He had 8 yellows and 3 reds last year, although only one yellow and one red were in the second half of the season, so maybe he adjusted his play to get carded less. Does the Bundesliga card more than other leagues?
 

Schnerres

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 28, 2009
1,554
Germany
@infidel: Xhaka is hotheaded, makes dumb fouls with his all-in play (which also results in great tackles) and gets sent off more often than most of the players along the way.
I don´t have the will to look for stats, but i looked them up today, so i remember smth like 140 club matches in his career, 35 yellow cards and 6 times sent off, which is crazy at his age(23). Some were just dumb (google Xhaka red card Darmstadt) and most were for 2nd bookings.

I know it sounds very negative, but he is a great player who improved a lot along his time in Gladbach and can be seen as one of the best players of last years Bundesliga season.

The Bundesliga refs deinitely hand out cards sooner/for easier fouls than when the same refs are seen in CL/Europa League matches, as the intensity rises. I´ve seen many tackles in Premier League play last season that are seen as "normal", or aren´t even penalized with cards, which would be yellow cards in the Bundesliga.
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
5,846
@infidel: Xhaka is hotheaded, makes dumb fouls with his all-in play (which also results in great tackles) and gets sent off more often than most of the players along the way.
I don´t have the will to look for stats, but i looked them up today, so i remember smth like 140 club matches in his career, 35 yellow cards and 6 times sent off, which is crazy at his age(23). Some were just dumb (google Xhaka red card Darmstadt) and most were for 2nd bookings.

I know it sounds very negative, but he is a great player who improved a lot along his time in Gladbach and can be seen as one of the best players of last years Bundesliga season.

The Bundesliga refs deinitely hand out cards sooner/for easier fouls than when the same refs are seen in CL/Europa League matches, as the intensity rises. I´ve seen many tackles in Premier League play last season that are seen as "normal", or aren´t even penalized with cards, which would be yellow cards in the Bundesliga.
This has Diego Costa baiting him into a dumb second yellow card written all over it.
 

teddykgb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
11,016
Chelmsford, MA
Those card numbers don't seem outrageous to me. Mids just have to take yellows with professional fouls in the modern game. Given his position it seems like a reasonable tally, isn't it?
 

Schnerres

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 28, 2009
1,554
Germany
Those card numbers don't seem outrageous to me. Mids just have to take yellows with professional fouls in the modern game. Given his position it seems like a reasonable tally, isn't it?
The yellow cards numbers are okay. The problem is when you get two in a game and sent off. He was well on his way to the record number of all-time sent-offs for career.
The Bundesliga record is eight from Jens Nowotny (5 reds and 3 Gelb-rote Karten), but in 334 Bundesliga matches.
Xhaka has another one in the Europa League, alright, so it´s probably balanced.
In Bundesliga, he had 108 matches, 5 sent offs (season / games / yellows / Gelb-rote Karten / red; 12-13 / 22 / 4 / 0 / 0 ; 13-14/ 28 / 10 / 1 / 0 ; 14-15 / 30 / 10 / 1 / 0; 15-16 / 28 / 5 / 2 / 1 ). Players like Jerome Boateng (4 reds, 2 Gelb-rote Karten in 209 games) or Luiz Gustavo (1 red, 6 Gelb-rote Karten in 218 games)are ahead of him in the sending off department, but they are getting sent off less frequent than him. He just isn´t stopping his aggressive style of playing after receiving a yellow card. I have hope, as he is still young and can improve just by ageing and gaining experience. OTOH, they tried to make him the captain and he basically failed in the leadership department and didn´t show any maturity at all last season.

[BTW: what is the English word for two yellow cards? Gelb-rote Karte :) like we say over here..]
 

Schnerres

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 28, 2009
1,554
Germany
They changed their coach after (i think it was 5) consecutive losses to start the season. Then they turned it around and won (i think it was at least the same number in the Bundesliga, 5) consecutive matches and really played well. But that was more due to their great roster and then being completely out of Europe after the Winter break. Their roster is full of great players. Mahmoud Dahoud is 20 and a prospect for team Germany, Andre Hahn was injured in the first part of the season, Harvard Nordtveid is one of the leaders, but he´s now off to West Ham and Raffael in front and Lars Stindl in midfield were creative attacking options for this team.

Why I think he didn´t show maturity? He was expected (former coach Lucien Favre was a master of the detail, in the way of Guardiola; some would say they are missing the look for the whole thing) to keep himself away from early cards, from dumb cards (meaning hard fouls next to the sideline or the middleline when the opponent has the back to the goal and nothing big to win) and he went hard in, opponent took the chance and Xhaka got yellow cards. I knew about the dumb, hard fouls, but i also read about the early yellow card fouls in a Gladbach blog.
Additionally, when Favre was dismissed / stepped down after the early losses and Andre Schubert was installed as a placeholder, Xhaka told reporters his opinion, that Schubert was a great coach and should be installed permanently. It was said from Gladbach management (Max Eberl) that he is looking for every opportunity and Schubert could be gone (back to the 2nd team) as soon as they have another coach. And after some wins and climbings up the league table, this was still the managements opinion (Schubert never worked in the Bundesliga as a coach) and Xhaka said, he wants him to be coach. I mean, if you´re asked from a reporter, you have to be smarter and say something like "it´s the managements job, but so far, Schubert has done a great job" or smth like that. But you cannot go out and say what he did. In the end, it was no problem, as Schubert was installed (but is still seen as a so-so-solution and could be under instant pressure if they get in early CL trouble) as a long-term solution after reaching CL spots again with this team.
So if you´re told to hold yourself back a little bit (i´m sure he´s been told multiple times by multiple persons), especially early in games, keep yourself from dumb fouls/cards but still collects them as often as he collects goals and isn´t afraid to hide his own opinion (maybe the language barriere holds him back here a little bit, as well..), instead of being just smart...then i think you´re not showing maturity, yes :)