General Playoff Thread: The Long 2nd Season

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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LOL - we get it. If you choose to believe that the leg kick was not intentional, hey, more power to you. But it was and that clip you linked to does not really support your opinion. Like, at all.
It supports the fact that he consistently kicks his leg out which is the only point I am making here. I think the kicks are bad whether its Green or Wade or Westbrook or Jamal Crawford. I hope the NBA addresses it this offseason and legislates it out of the game. That said, the evidence is that this is common practice in the NBA. Based on the facts at hand, I believe Green was not trying to kick another guy straight in the nads in a Conference finals playoff game with millions watching. He may be hard to root for but the guy is not dumb.
 

Kliq

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I'm surprised he didn't get suspended just because it seemed to have occurred twice in this series alone. A player doesn't have the right to flail around dramatically and just because he has been doing that for a while it doesn't excuse the fact that he kicked another man right in the nuts.
 

BigSoxFan

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It supports the fact that he consistently kicks his leg out which is the only point I am making here. I think the kicks are bad whether its Green or Wade or Westbrook or Jamal Crawford. I hope the NBA addresses it this offseason and legislates it out of the game. That said, the evidence is that this is common practice in the NBA and that Green was not trying to kick another guy straight in the nads in a Conference finals playoff game with millions watching. He may be hard to root for but the guy is not dumb.
Smart people do dumb things all the time, especially in the heat of the moment. That was an intentional act. I'm fine with no suspension because I'm a neutral observer and like the drama but there is no way that wasn't intentional. It wasn't the fact that he kicked the legs out, it was the force with which he did it that sold me.
 

Cellar-Door

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As a note, intention isn't supposed to matter. The NBA ignores precedent all the time, but traditionally it's a 1 game suspension if it is reckless and not a basketball motion. This is a case of the traditional NBA double standard, if a role player does it, it's a suspension, if this was a regular season game... probably a suspension. You can tell in part by the big fine and the flagrant 2.
The upgrade is the funniest part since it's an admission he should have been ejected, but with no real bite, if Draymond ever actually gets to the limit on flagrants one will be downgraded.
 

Sox and Rocks

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It supports the fact that he consistently kicks his leg out which is the only point I am making here. I think the kicks are bad whether its Green or Wade or Westbrook or Jamal Crawford. I hope the NBA addresses it this offseason and legislates it out of the game. That said, the evidence is that this is common practice in the NBA. Based on the facts at hand, I believe Green was not trying to kick another guy straight in the nads in a Conference finals playoff game with millions watching. He may be hard to root for but the guy is not dumb.
Most players don't kick guys in the nuts twice while kicking their legs out.

You're normally pretty fair, but your love for the Warriors is blinding you here.

Also, while the nba's decision is dumb, it's not surprising
 

Sox and Rocks

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As a note, intention isn't supposed to matter. The NBA ignores precedent all the time, but traditionally it's a 1 game suspension if it is reckless and not a basketball motion. This is a case of the traditional NBA double standard, if a role player does it, it's a suspension, if this was a regular season game... probably a suspension. You can tell in part by the big fine and the flagrant 2.
The upgrade is the funniest part since it's an admission he should have been ejected, but with no real bite, if Draymond ever actually gets to the limit on flagrants one will be downgraded.
Spot on
 

BigSoxFan

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It's a good thing that Draymond didn't do anything really dangerous like leave the bench for a few feet during a scuffle like Stoudamire/Diaw did in 2007 and got suspended for.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It's a good thing that Draymond didn't do anything really dangerous like leave the bench for a few feet during a scuffle like Stoudamire/Diaw did in 2007 and got suspended for.
I thought that was a bullshit call by Stern and robbed NBA fans.

cellar door is right though - intention isn't supposed to matter so they can suspend him if they thought it was not a normal basketball motion. The fact is that flailing is very common across the league and if they want to do something about it, now isn't the time.

And let me be more clear. I don't think Green intended to kick Adams last night but its possible he did. Some people here are absolutely certain of his intent while I simply am not, especially after spending time watching those clips in the deadspin piece.

And Kliq, the game prior Green was going full speed at Adams, did a Euro-step and ran into Adams with his knee. That one was clearly inadvertent. The taunting afterward was unnecessary per your observation.
 

Kliq

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I don't know, with his history of flailing I think he probably did it on purpose.
 

Tangled Up In Red

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Most players don't kick guys in the nuts twice while kicking their legs out.
Draymond didn't. Or are you talking about someone else?
The earlier Green/Adams groin meeting was a clearly unintentional knee on a eurostep drive to the hoop.

I still can't believe James Harden's name isn't thrown around more. Guy flails (arms, legs, torso, beard) more than anyone in history.
 

BigSoxFan

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But isn't now the time if you want to do something about it? If you don't really care, which appears to be the case, don't upgrade the flagrant and fine him. Suspending some random player in December for a similar act where it would receive .0002% of the attention won't address it at all. There is almost always going to be some shred of doubt on intent unless some guy gets Rambis'd.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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But isn't now the time if you want to do something about it? If you don't really care, which appears to be the case, don't upgrade the flagrant and fine him. Suspending some random player in December for a similar act where it would receive .0002% of the attention won't address it at all. There is almost always going to be some shred of doubt on intent unless some guy gets Rambis'd.
Look, we all know what the NBA did here - they were between a rock and hard place and they chose the stars way out. However if they haven't consistently enforced something like this all season - and I have no stats but I am fairly certain other guys have been kicked in the dick this season from guys flailing their legs out - its hard to start now.

Again, I liked what the local radio guys (Tolbert, who played in the NBA for a long time and sports pundit Ray Ratto) here were advocating - make it a steep suspension of say three games along with a hefty fine. That will hit these guys hard enough in terms of both PT and money to deter them from the practice.

Finally, Draymond Green is not Dahntay Jones. One is a star player while the other is clearly the NBA's version of Tie Domi.
 

BigSoxFan

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Nice start for Toronto. Don't think they'll ever get within 10 in Cleveland but glad they may extend the series.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yeah, it's Tie Domi versus...Scott Stevens? Let's not pretend that Draymond Green is about to win a sportsmanship award out there.
He is a very good NBA player and one of the best defenders in the game. He is also a world class shit talker but he is no Scott Stevens.
 

Kliq

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Draymond didn't. Or are you talking about someone else?
The earlier Green/Adams groin meeting was a clearly unintentional knee on a eurostep drive to the hoop.

I still can't believe James Harden's name isn't thrown around more. Guy flails (arms, legs, torso, beard) more than anyone in history.
People haven't brought up Harden because somehow despite his legendary amount of flailing, he hasn't managed to nail the same guy in the nuts twice in two games.
 

JCizzle

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Green seems to play on the edge a lot (see: final play of Celtics game where he basically tackled two guys). He deserves his reputation from non warriors fans just like KG did with his antics. Great player, but I think he deserves a game. I hope Adams gets him back
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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People haven't brought up Harden because somehow despite his legendary amount of flailing, he hasn't managed to nail the same guy in the nuts twice in two games.
You forgot to mention that Harden is also no longer playing basketball this season.
 

tbrep

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Meanwhile in Toronto, the Raptors shot their first FTs of the game with 6 minutes left in the 3rd quarter.
 

shawnrbu

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Toronto's end of quarter offense is maddening. Kevin Love could barely walk and the point guard doesn't bother calling a play and instead takes an impossible fadeaway.
 

tbrep

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And just like that Toronto's lead is down to 1. CLE 8-10 on 3PT FG in the second half.

The acquisition of Frye has really paid dividends - he's been phenomenal these playoffs.
 

ifmanis5

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Meanwhile in Toronto, the Raptors shot their first FTs of the game with 6 minutes left in the 3rd quarter.
Been a terribly officiated game. Cavs get lucky that Love is hurt so they can bench him without guilt. He's been awful. Frye is hot and is a huge step up.
 

tbrep

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Cleveland finally misses a shot in the 4th quarter. After starting 11-11 from the field. Toronto not too shabby offensively either (8-11 FG)
 

ElUno20

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A road shitshow by Cleveland. Losing two games to a team as average as the raptors is not good.
 

Bergs

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I only watched the 4th quarter, but I'd say Cleveland got jobbed by the refs.
 

tbrep

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A road shitshow by Cleveland. Losing two games to a team as average as the raptors is not good.
Gotta credit Toronto's offense though. Lowry and DeRozan made some tough mid-range jumpers and finished really well in the paint.
 

Fishy1

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Biyombo is basically not there in the pick and roll, but boy has he been impressive on defense. He embarrassed JR.

Rough showing by the refs; most of the missed calls, as far as I could tell, we're in Toronto's favor.

Fun game.
 

reggiecleveland

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Toronto is a really well coached team. They caved the small to small pick where JR switched until they needed it. They found ways to get their guys the ball, and did about as well as they could with being unable to cover Lebron and all on D.

If you look after the ball and make the extra pass against the cavs it comes down to making shots. They gamble all over the place. That is why the Warriors crush them.
 

Kliq

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We keep saying it, but Bismack is having an Eric Dampier-like contract run.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Toronto - OKC finals. Would this be the lowest rated finals ever? Somewhere, executives at Disney are making frantic phone calls trying to figure out how to stop this from happening.
 

TheRooster

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Simple question: If LeBron has Lowry guarding him on the post, shouldn't he shoot? I believe he passed out of that at least 3 times in the 4th quarter. Very odd decisions for such an elite player. Jackson made a vague reference to James over-passing too.
 

reggiecleveland

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It is amazing the effect the success of the Toronto teams have on the sports popularity in Canada. Because of the Jays playoff run the number of kids baseball teams is up about 40% the highest since the early 90s. Those kids that played ball n the 90s are mostly baseball fans now. Basketball is already threatening to eclipse hockey in participation, and a Rapters run to the finals would have similar effects.

That said when the Raps don't shoot a single FT in the 1st half, you have to wonder if the NBA is pulling for better TV in the USA.
 

chilidawg

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Simple question: If LeBron has Lowry guarding him on the post, shouldn't he shoot? I believe he passed out of that at least 3 times in the 4th quarter. Very odd decisions for such an elite player. Jackson made a vague reference to James over-passing too.
I noticed the same, although in at least one instance he got doubled. 4th Q. choke for the queen.
 

Kliq

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OKC comes out like gangbusters and goes on a 16-0 run in the first quarter. GS very sloppy and giving up points in transition.
 

coremiller

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Great minutes from Ezeli. Strange to say this, but the Ws need his size/athleticism to match up.