Liverpool 2015-16: We Didn't Want To Play in Europe Anyway

MiracleOfO2704

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The CPS is officially considering criminal charges. I assume Duckenfield has to be one of those in the crosshairs, I don't know too much about the others.
I'd love to revive Irvine Patnick, just because. This asshole too, though I can't think of actual criminal charges against either:


Now that the inquest has come back with unlawful killing verdicts, Norman Bettison is a name to watch. He was a constable with the SYP that coordinated a lot of the effort to shift blame from police to the fans. With the new verdict, he can actually be considered to have perverted the course of justice.
 

Buffalo Head

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I was just watching old clips -- the Hillsborough 30-for-30 and some of the British TV coverage, including Andy Burnham's speeches in 2009 and 2014. And then I found a clip of John Henry speaking at his first Hillsborough memorial in 2013 and was just struck by the incredible irony that while he was in Liverpool giving that speech (or I suppose literally a few hours later), the Marathon bombing took place in the city of the other team he owns.
 

fletcherpost

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Was in a cafe today, they had a copy of The Sun. Not a single word about it. What was the chit chat in the editors meeting? What do we do? Pretend it never happened? Why don't we show some class? I don't often think about The Sun, but when everyone, every non news international news outlet is covering the story. everyone taking the time to show some class - The Sun, gives us the most undignified silence.

On the other hand - there's Kenny Dalglish, being interviewed by his daughter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03sb94b

Top Man.
 

cjdmadcow

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Was in a cafe today, they had a copy of The Sun. Not a single word about it. What was the chit chat in the editors meeting? What do we do? Pretend it never happened? Why don't we show some class? I don't often think about The Sun, but when everyone, every non news international news outlet is covering the story. everyone taking the time to show some class - The Sun, gives us the most undignified silence.

On the other hand - there's Kenny Dalglish, being interviewed by his daughter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03sb94b

Top Man.
Here's how the BBC highlighted just how out of step The S** was with their editorial decision not to even mention the momentous events of yesterday until pages eight & nine. When you see how all the other papers reacted, it really shows the detestable nature of the ownership and editorial team.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-36147007

I sent a tweet to the editor today - Tony Gallagher - asking for an explanation for his editorial decisions last night. Strangely, I've not received a reply.

I'm listening to the programme on 5Live now and the graphic accounts of some of the survivors should be compulsory listening for anyone who has any doubt as to the human tragedy of that day. I heard a preview of Kelly's interview with Kenny last night and it had me in tears...I'm not sure I can listen to the full thing.
 

fletcherpost

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Here's how the BBC highlighted just how out of step The S** was with their editorial decision not to even mention the momentous events of yesterday until pages eight & nine. When you see how all the other papers reacted, it really shows the detestable nature of the ownership and editorial team.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-36147007

I sent a tweet to the editor today - Tony Gallagher - asking for an explanation for his editorial decisions last night. Strangely, I've not received a reply.

I'm listening to the programme on 5Live now and the graphic accounts of some of the survivors should be compulsory listening for anyone who has any doubt as to the human tragedy of that day. I heard a preview of Kelly's interview with Kenny last night and it had me in tears...I'm not sure I can listen to the full thing.
It's worth a listen. It's a lesson in class and dignity and grace and something else i can't quite find a word for. Whenever Kelly asks him a question like, did Hillsborough change your life? Or did it take it out of you? He always deflects - saying 'A marathon takes it out of you', stuff like that...careful to not compare anything he went through to that of the families who lost loved ones or the fans who were in the crush. You realize why they call him King Kenny, and it's not hyperbole. He did it as a player, as a manager...but what he did as a man...as 'the man' - who was the front face, the leader of the club through that time...I can't think of many or any in sport who are as beloved, who have served like he has. One of my favourite phrases is 'many are called but few are chosen' -

Andy Burnham MP gave a good speech in the commons today. I hope the Government take on board what he had to say.
 

DLew On Roids

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Both Dalglish and Margaret Aspinall deserve knighthoods for the example they've set throughout this saga. I'm sure both would say that's absurd and they were just doing the right thing. And that's the exact fucking reason they earned them. They are actual heroes.

For those who don't know, Dalglish went to all 96 funerals while still managing the club. It tore his life apart for years and ultimately led to his resignation. Aspinall...shit, that woman has more fight in her pinkie toe than most of us put together.
 

PedroSpecialK

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Only 30 days for Sakho. I was under the impression the penalty was 6 months minimum with up to 2 years possible:

 

SocrManiac

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From what I'm reading, 30 day suspension while the investigation is concluded. The ban will be longer.

I'd be pretty grumpy if I were a Dortmund fan. The failed test was before the second leg, certainly.
 

SocrManiac

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Wasn't quite a worst-case result yesterday, but it's in the neighborhood.

The Villareal celebrations will make for a nasty second leg. Klopp taking exception is a fun piece of irony, but if it focuses the group, so much the better. They need to be thinking about pouring three goals in at a minimum.
 

SoxFanInCali

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Liverpool are on to their 12th European Cup Final (7 European Cup/Champions League, 4 UEFA Cup/Europa League, and 1 Cup Winners' Cup). That is twice as many as any other team in England.

If they can win it...wow. I like the thought of Klopp recruiting players in the summer when he is able to offer them Champions League football.

The last 3 league games will likely be a mix of kids and first-teamers trying not to get hurt.
 

SocrManiac

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Remember when Rodgers would rarely play Firmino, and then typically only on the wing? He's been arguably Liverpool's best, most consistent player since Klopp took over.

Having Emre Can back was huge. He's going to be so important to this team's core moving forward.

I know he's on the scoresheet but Sturridge was a big disappointment for me today. His finishing was poor, he forced shots from bad areas or with better options available and continued the team's run of being toothless alone with the keeper. When he's sharp I'd stack him against almost anybody but he spends entirely too much time hurt, rusty, or lost.

Coutinho is another enigma. When he's on its a joy to watch. He's in a rut of predictably forcing he ball onto his right foot. On the plus side he's punching above his weight class when pressing and challenging defensively- a refreshing change from seeing him shy away from challenges.

It's amazing how different and confident Lovren looks when he's paired with somebody not missing vowels in his name. I hope Kolo's inevitable age-related blunder isn't in the final.

Also... The final! Who would have thought after the start to the season!
 

SoxFanInCali

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It's really not fair to what Rodgers did at the club, but I saw a tweet pointing out that Klopp has taken the team to two cup finals in 7 months, which is 2 more than Rodgers did.
 

Schnerres

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What was the beef between Marcelinho and Klopp about? Did he not like that Klopp is jumping around fistbumping like a maniac after advancing (like he always did) or what´s the problem for this guy?
 

SoxFanInCali

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Random useless stat of the day:

With Chelsea's loss today, Liverpool are guaranteed to finish 8th or better. The last time they finished outside the top 8 was 1961-62, when the won the old Second Division.
 

SoxFanInCali

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With the Hillsborough hearings concluded, the 30 for 30 that those of us in the US saw a couple years ago was finally allowed to be shown on BBC Two last night. As was the case here, the reaction to it that I have seen has been extremely positive.
 

SoxFanInCali

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Looks like pretty much what I would expect the starting XI in Basel to be. Give them a runout today, and play the kids on Sunday.

This is Liverpool's 61st game this season, and Klopp's 50th. He took over 217 days ago.
 

SoxFanInCali

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While we get ready for the final on Wednesday, this happened 15 years ago today.


Liverpool cup finals as a rule tend to be crazy, heart-stopping affairs, but this one is right up there with the craziest.
 

mc_red25

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Hello everybody, been visiting the forum for a while but thought I'd finally sign up. It was a bonus that I came across this thread as I'm a life long Liverpool fan.

I read about the Karius news earlier today. I'm very happy that we look to be getting him for around £4.7m. He could do with working on his catching as he tends to punch quite a lot but other than that he looks good. Another player we should be signing very soon is Zielinski from Udinese (currently on loan at Empoli). I hope we manage to sign Gotze.

There are some exciting times ahead for the club, glad to have the manager in charge of it all that every other club in the league (Man City aside) wants/wanted.
 
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Wouldn't it have been better to announce this after Mignolet no longer had an opportunity to gratuitously fuck up the most important match of the season?
 

mc_red25

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Wouldn't it have been better to announce this after Mignolet no longer had an opportunity to gratuitously fuck up the most important match of the season?
Unfortunately the neutrals have no interest in when this gets announced. I would have thought the club could have waited until our last game has been played before starting official negotiations though.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Unfortunately the neutrals have no interest in when this gets announced. I would have thought the club could have waited until our last game has been played before starting official negotiations though.
This may have been in the works for awhile now .. One hopes Mignolet was kept in the loop.

It seems to me this is the downside to being a player's manager. Klopp has been building up the likes of Lovren and Lallana .. Getting them to believe in their abilities. Telling them he trusts them .. And then the club turns around and brings in replacements. Mind you I'd rather have Goetze than Lallana .. Can we keep both?
 

mc_red25

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This may have been in the works for awhile now .. One hopes Mignolet was kept in the loop.

It seems to me this is the downside to being a player's manager. Klopp has been building up the likes of Lovren and Lallana .. Getting them to believe in their abilities. Telling them he trusts them .. And then the club turns around and brings in replacements. Mind you I'd rather have Goetze than Lallana .. Can we keep both?
I'm pretty sure that Lallana won't be going anywhere. Klopp loves him and he's been playing really well lately. We're going to need the depth based on the injuries and problems we've had this season and even more so if we qualify for the Champions League.
 

Schnerres

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Loris Karius just played a fantastic season with Mainz 05 with almost no mistakes (I guess they will arrive when he comes across to the UK :) ). He´s a great signing!

I have no idea what to think of Mario Götze at this point. He is one of the best talents Germany ever had, but this status is long gone. And he just played another really bad season at Bayern. From the top of my head I would guess he had 4 or 5 goals in the Bundesliga (with two coming in the last match against already-relegated Hannover), got almost no starts (maybe a handful) and zero credit from Pep. When he is/was with the national team, i always expect the best and Jogi plays him regularly. I expect heavy minutes this summer, too (so a transfer ahead of the Euro would be smarter than after the tournament) and I really have no idea why Pep didn´t like him. Okay, he has better players in Ribery, Robben, then Coman and Douglas Costa. But there were matches when he played youngsters over him in the last 3 seasons, didn´t change 3 times and Götze was sitting there waiting to be subbed in. I guess Ancelotti told him already, he cannot promise him a bigger role. And that´s alright. How can you be sure about him.

And I really have no idea what would happen at Liverpool. Would he break down physically due to more matches and harder treatment (tackles) as he is already injury-prone? I don´t know, but he would definitely get more playing time and get in a better shape and flow. And Liverpools/Kloppos fast pace football is also more suited for him than Bayerns possession football with 1000 passes per game.
Money? He has just one year remaining on his contract, he barely played this year (all the time at Bayern), they paid 37mil.€ to get him from Dortmund, he earns about 12mil.€ per year. Huge money for a sub. Bayern has to take the highest bid for the guy to at least have him from their wage bill and make up some of the transfer sum. OTOH, you always think, he is still young (turns 24 this summer, already five german league titles and 50 national matches) and can still make it to the very top :). But I think with just one year remaining and the huge wage (he won´t take much less to go anywhere), he either waits another year and then goes anywhere for free to make huge money or Bayern sells him for little money, so the buying team can spend on his wage. Everything over 20mil.€ would seem too much to me, but money these days goes crazy. There would probably be some clauses included with playing time adding some money to the transfer sum.
 

mc_red25

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Loris Karius just played a fantastic season with Mainz 05 with almost no mistakes (I guess they will arrive when he comes across to the UK :) ). He´s a great signing!

I have no idea what to think of Mario Götze at this point. He is one of the best talents Germany ever had, but this status is long gone. And he just played another really bad season at Bayern. From the top of my head I would guess he had 4 or 5 goals in the Bundesliga (with two coming in the last match against already-relegated Hannover), got almost no starts (maybe a handful) and zero credit from Pep. When he is/was with the national team, i always expect the best and Jogi plays him regularly. I expect heavy minutes this summer, too (so a transfer ahead of the Euro would be smarter than after the tournament) and I really have no idea why Pep didn´t like him. Okay, he has better players in Ribery, Robben, then Coman and Douglas Costa. But there were matches when he played youngsters over him in the last 3 seasons, didn´t change 3 times and Götze was sitting there waiting to be subbed in. I guess Ancelotti told him already, he cannot promise him a bigger role. And that´s alright. How can you be sure about him.

And I really have no idea what would happen at Liverpool. Would he break down physically due to more matches and harder treatment (tackles) as he is already injury-prone? I don´t know, but he would definitely get more playing time and get in a better shape and flow. And Liverpools/Kloppos fast pace football is also more suited for him than Bayerns possession football with 1000 passes per game.
Money? He has just one year remaining on his contract, he barely played this year (all the time at Bayern), they paid 37mil.€ to get him from Dortmund, he earns about 12mil.€ per year. Huge money for a sub. Bayern has to take the highest bid for the guy to at least have him from their wage bill and make up some of the transfer sum. OTOH, you always think, he is still young (turns 24 this summer, already five german league titles and 50 national matches) and can still make it to the very top :). But I think with just one year remaining and the huge wage (he won´t take much less to go anywhere), he either waits another year and then goes anywhere for free to make huge money or Bayern sells him for little money, so the buying team can spend on his wage. Everything over 20mil.€ would seem too much to me, but money these days goes crazy. There would probably be some clauses included with playing time adding some money to the transfer sum.
There's some talk that we're looking at bringing in one of the keeper coaches at Chelsea as he's fallen out with Courtois. Cech credits him with helping to make him a great keeper. John Achterberg really has to leave the club! It got so bad with him at one point that Pepe Reina refused to work with him and instead wanted to bring in his own coach and pay the guy out of his own pocket.

Gotze's season really wasn't all that bad. In the end he played 21 games (all comps), scored 6 goals and got 4 assists. Compare that to Coutinho who played in 42 games, scored 12 goals and got 6 assists. So that's half the games, half the goals and 1 assist over .500. The latter of the two just took a clean sweep of all the trophies he could possibly win at the club awards. He missed 17 games through injury (the same injury), 3 through not being fit after the injury and 1 he was given a rest. When he got the goals doesn't matter, they don't matter any less, they don't equate to being less than a goal at any other time in the season.

He started 11 of 14 league games, 1 of 4 Champions League games and 2 of 2 DFB-Kopal games. The other appearance was in the super cup. The reported fee for him is approx. £20m and in today's market that seems a decent price. I don't see that much being wrapped up in clauses, he has 1 year left, there's no chance they get anything close to what they paid back. He will be earning less than the €12m a year that you suggested. That works out at just over €230k a week and approx. £180k a week.
 

SocrManiac

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I wrote about Achterberg at some point this season, not sure if it was in this or a game thread. I totally agree that it's time for a change. Mignolet has an above average shot stopping skill set. With his level of ability you should at least have a serviceable keeper. The peripherals are absolutely coachable but have remained poor and/or inconsistent. Migs is either dumb as a box of rocks and won't take instruction or he's receiving poor coaching.

I'd dual path the solution. Pitch Achterberg and bring in strong competition. Worst case is the coaching doesn't help and Migs is an FA Cup keeper.
 

Schnerres

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I doubt Götze will come over without international football to play.
And there will be less money to spend, too.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Recruiting might be harder but Liverpool, United, and Leicester have all shown the last three years that not playing in Europe can confer a pretty substantial domestic advantage. So there is that at least.

Tough match. If you had gotten the second goal in the first half, I think things would have been different. And Liverpool has some good reason for complaint with the refereeing.
 

cjdmadcow

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The only complaint I would have about the ref is him continually falling for the Seville players drawing fouls by deliberately moving into an opponent and then falling over, plus his time-keeping was dreadful, I mean for the first 2 Sevilla goals their players were lying on the ground hugging each other for a good 2 minutes and that plus the various subs meant it should have been at least 6 or 7 minutes extra.

But that's irrelevant as we were beaten by a better team - a better team that is more like a skillful Stoke City of old than a Barcelona, but a better team nonetheless.

A win might have papered over the cracks of what needs to be done with the squad - though I'd rather have won, obviously - and it may make recruiting a bit tougher but it's from here on in that we get to see what Klopp is really like in putting together a squad and then working with them continuously on the training pitch. Every midweek will be spent on the training ground now and I expect good things to follow.

Up the Reds!
 

DLew On Roids

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I'm not concerned about the money as much as I am the recruitment opportunities. The TV deal dwarfs the CL money.

I'm bummed about no Europe mostly because it means fewer matchdays. But keep the squad together and go for it in the league.
 

CPT Neuron

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I am literally salivating at the opportunity to bring Goetze to Anfield. It creates a bit of a log jam in the mid-field of a 4-2-3-1, but for that quality, I'm good with it......I don't have to make the decision on who plays!
 

SocrManiac

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I started writing out my thoughts on the current squad and realized it's pointless. 1) nobody here wants to read my ramblings and 2) Klopp is going to turn the team over, anyway.

I came across this:
Klopp is going to blow this thing up. I'm fine with it. There are two many players that you'd want to like but just aren't good enough. Who in this squad is truly untouchable based on their performance this year? I think Firmino , Coutinho, Emre Can, Clyne, and Origi are relatively safe. Sturridge likely is as well, though Klopp may not have the patience for a man made out of wet napkins and string cheese regardless of his talent. Is he worth the wages for the half dozen matches he isn't either out or playing into form? His upside is world class. His mean level isn't.
 

SocrManiac

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Don't stop there... Benteke and Skrtel are there, too.

The tough ones are Milner, Henderson, and Lallana. These are hardworking guys that are faces of the franchise. I don't think they're good or consistent enough to bring the team to the promised land. This is where Klopp can shine as he's proven he's not afraid to make these decisions.
 

PedroSpecialK

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I think the three above all stay, in some capacity.

Milner is most probable for me to stay, and I believe he'll move into a similar role as he had at City, some central midfield, some right AM, filling in at fullback, but I doubt Klopp will want to count on him as a full-time CM outside of matches against the Burnleys and West Broms of the world.

Lallana clearly has a great relationship with Klopp and should feature as an option off the bench, not unlike Allen did under Klopp. With Firmino, Coutinho, and potentially Götze in the mix, I doubt he'd nail down a starting role off the bat, but he'd be valuable as a squad player/borderline starter. Unless Pochettino blows LFC's doors off with an offer, of course.

Regarding Henderson... I don't think anybody would have imagined his stint as club captain to go as poorly as it did, but we also saw how important he can be to an uptempo playing style with his work rate, pressing, and vision in midfield during the '13-'14 campaign. I also don't discount that JWH & co. would be wary of the optics of punting on SG's replacement as captain 1 year into his tenure (although they didn't get the memo that Michael Owen is not really popular around the LFC fanbase, but I digress). Given his injury woes, his value is low. He stays IMO.

Outside of those three, I believe Clyne, Lovren, Smith, Can, Coutinho, Firmino, Allan, Ibe, Origi, Sturridge, and Ings all stay, maybe loans for Ojo and Allan. I'm hopeful that Joe Allen will stay but he may not be satisfied as a squad player, would be interesting to see if Klopp is willing to keep him and lose him on a free after next season though. With Sakho's future still up in the air, I'm hopeful they give Kolo one more year.


Agreed that Moreno and Mignolet will be on the outs, but I don't see Mignolet being sold until near the end of the summer as he has a new 5 year deal starting this coming season, and would likely require a similar/greater contract than the £60k weekly he's receiving. Maybe the threat of playing second fiddle will impact his decision as he'll want first team time to improve his stock for Belgium.

I really wanted Moreno to succeed, and I still think he could be very successful as a LWB with a back 3 behind him. That isn't Klopp's style though, and I think he's gone, especially considering Klopp had this to say after the first leg at Villareal:

There is no explanation for this. They played one chip ball on the back of Kolo and Alberto [Moreno] is not there – I don't know where he was – so that was really fortuitous and that makes really no sense but that was the only big mistake we made in the game.
and about Sevilla's first goal:

It's not about really football, it's a second when you are not concentrating enough.