If I'm Mourinho, do I risk bringing two clubs to the bottom half of the table in one season? I'd rather just wait and start fresh in the fall.
Manchester United 2015/2016: The Most Exciting Team in the League
- Thread starter Zomp
- Start date
This team is an embarrassing shitshow. Their "attacking" play is a disjointed mess. The defense is passable but prone to shambolic mistakes at inopportune moments. The performance against bottom of the table Sunderland erased any notion that this team is relevant this season. Why Ander Herrera cannot get on the field is a complete mystery to me. Play him along Schneiderlin and let him be a box to box midfielder. Or just get him on the field. I've been leery of changing horses in mid race, but at this point, is doing so really any worse than watching this team run itself into a wall repeatedly? If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, then LvG should be committed at this point.
/end rant
/end rant
Are any credible ManU sources talking about a possible move for Saul, the young Atletico midfielder? AS, the Spanish paper, picked something up. I'm doubtful, though, since I think Saul will want to stay in Madrid. He's a fantastic player, though, and only looks to get better.
There were a few whispers around January that we were after him but nothing came of it. If I were you I'd be confident of him staying, particularly if Mourinho comes in to manage the squad next season.
Even though I'm on the LVG out brigade I can't help but admire his willingness to throw the youngsters straight into the first time. Some haven't done as well I hoped, I honestly don't see the big fuss about Lingard, but others have really shown their worth. In yesterday's disaster the one shining light was Timothy Fosu-Mensah. He's an 18 year old Dutch defender who has played extremely well in his 4 or 5 appearances this year. Physically he is built like a brick shithouse but his first touch and passing range are great for a defender. Scouts and people who work in Uniteds academy say his best position is center back but he's excelled at both fullback positions. If Shaw can come back healthy next year I wonder if TFM supplants Darmian at right back.
He was everywhere against Spurs, it was super impressive as a Spurs fan.
I feel like the LvG era is going to look a lot better in hindsight when some of those young players really blossom.
Or they bring Jose in and then I guess have fun seeing them all grow at Everton and the like as a horde of Mendes clients come in to replace them.
I feel like the LvG era is going to look a lot better in hindsight when some of those young players really blossom.
Or they bring Jose in and then I guess have fun seeing them all grow at Everton and the like as a horde of Mendes clients come in to replace them.
For a while yesterday only Smalling, Carrick, and Schneiderlin were playing in something akin to their natural positions -- it was one of the most bizarre lineup/formation choices I can remember. Bringing on Ashley Young to play center forward was the capper, but Martial was stuck out wide, Lindgard was playing as the #10, Mata was forced to chase Danny Rose up and down the right flank without support ... what on earth was LVG thinking?
I feel like the Mourinho doesn't play youth thing is overblown from the Lukaku fiasco but I haven't looked into it much. Off the top of my head I can remember him preferring youth in some positions for his other clubs. Santon and Balotelli at Inter, Varane at Real Madrid, Zouma at Chelsea.
I think if they're good enough they'll play. I don't think Shaw, Martial, and maybe TFM have anything to worry about. The rest I'm not sure if they're good enough anyway.
In a curious move, United have pushed back the deadline to renew season tickets from May 20th to June 1st. The FA Cup final, if they make it, is May 21st. Maybe they have some news to encourage people to renew after that game?
Well Man UTD fans are pretty die hard...55K season tickets annually...leaving 21K up for grabs for game days. I know that "some ' fans are far from impressed with LVG...do you think that if LVG stays it impacts the 55K season tickets being sold as far as volume? I don't but I could be wrong. Or could it be a pricing issue let's say hire a new coach...expectations through the roof...let's hike up the price? I just don't see winning the FA cup being a factor....maybe I'm giving the fans too much credit
I think it would yeah. Last season when I went to see United vs Villa at Old Trafford I bought my tickets a month or so before the match. From speaking to the locals they were surprised that I was able to get tickets so soon to the match. A few seasons ago they used to have ballots before every game for tickets, last season they released all tickets at once at the beginning of the season because the club was obviously nervous about their performances at the end of the season.
I think they are nervous about losing their season ticket holders, definitely.
Fwiw, I wasn't suggesting they were waiting til after the final because they'd hope a win would boost sales...I'm suggesting hiring Mourinho would.
I think they are nervous about losing their season ticket holders, definitely.
Fwiw, I wasn't suggesting they were waiting til after the final because they'd hope a win would boost sales...I'm suggesting hiring Mourinho would.
It's not like Mourinho is tied to another job...it's common knowledge he covets the job ( if you believe the papers)...so why not announce it..if they are hell bent on making a coaching change? As a fan would you personally want him?
As a neutral, I like the guy...he makes the EPL more interesting. I think I said in another thread, Man Utd should hire Mourinho and sign Ibrahimovic and the noise level goes to 11 as far as interest. Although there is a history between them. Put it this way, with other transfer signings and these two....it will put arses on seats and I doubt you get chance to buy a ticket a month before the game. Unless there is an implosion ...which there could be. And of course....that's a huge risk.
Appointing a famous ex-player who's buddy-buddy with the org's higher-ups head of the youth development program ... is Man Utd taking cues from the USSF?
Yes, I've always wanted him. I think to manage a club like United you need to have an ego the size of the city itself. Moyes certainly didn't have it. Van Gaal does but his methods are tiring and he doesn't adapt well enough when things go south. I think, if papers are to be believed, this is the job Mourinho has always coveted and he now has something to prove after the Chelsea debacle.
I agree with you. Sign Ibra. If we're going to just be "another big club" that changes managers every few seasons...might as well make it fun.
I hope you get him.
Although I had inside knowledge of the Moyes hiring, I'm out of the loop here. Maybe a couple of e-mails could remedy that. I'm not sure if Fergie's influence has become more dilute, or he has become more removed from butting heads with Mourinho and subsequently mellowed in age. I can say he did not want Mourinho to replace him for various reasons. But we all saw how his chosen one turned out. Maybe he has moved on.
If the plan now is Mourinho..I still don't get why they don't just announce it.
Surely messrs Neville and Giggs have the inside track for the job! Rat face to the rescue!
Honestly Jose wouldn't be the big reveal, a transfer budget would. This isn't a Jose team right now, they'd need to overhaul all over the place.
Honestly Jose wouldn't be the big reveal, a transfer budget would. This isn't a Jose team right now, they'd need to overhaul all over the place.
Because it could have an effect to the current team and their performance.
Why would you announce anything now?
The best thing would be to let the season just play out like it has until today. Somehow up-and-down, but they probably reach the CL (qualifyers) with their schedule. If they announce the hiring of Mou, you risk to derail everything and possibly drop out of the CL spots. Wait until the season is over, van Gaal steps out after the season, maybe even with a title, but with definitely more respect than being kicked-in-the-ass midseason. So why would you announce it now?
You can sign contracts with players in a month, too. Paying tons of money will still get you Zlatan and other guys.
I did not say "now" , look at zomp's post I was referring to. He said June 1st..after the FA Cup. There is a delay from the norm as far as season ticket sales. The FA Cup final is 21 May. But I can see the confusion by me saying.."why not just announce it". I did not mean today etc. Although an earlier announcement Pelligrini's departure months ago did not derail Man City in the CL..did it?
The one thing I would like to add and I have no clue does it refer to this situation. Many times when a coach is leaving, he confides in players, maybe one or two. I'm not sure if LVG has that relationship with his players. But the cat is out of the bag long before it's announced in the media SOMETIMES. The point being, LVG may already know he is leaving and so does the squad. So..we can't assume just because it is not announced officially...the players don't already know.
What I can also tell you from personal experience is that players can be brought in, similar to an exit interview, and asked how they like the coach and do they want to play for him next season. This is a red flag...players discuss why they went through this process and what they said. They may already know.
Having said all this bullshit..LVG may be in charge next year. My gut tells me otherwise.
Various outlets including some big name journalists are reporting this evening that United are inching closer to Renato Sanches. I've never seen him play apart from some of his highlights (Irish whipping opponents off the ball) but if Vinho's description is right I hope we have patience with him. Not everyone can be Tony Martial.
By some miracle United actually have a clear path to 4th place.
City are currently 4 points up on United, who have a game in hand.
City's remaining two games are against Arsenal and Swansea (with Arsenal obviously being the more likely opportunity for them to drop points)
One City loss/draw and United winning their 3 remaining games would put United in the 4th and final champions league spot. Two wins and a draw for United would likely not do it, given City holds the tie breaker on GD.
Here's hoping that City lose this weekend. If that happens, United-West Ham would essentially become a final for 4th place, with a win by either side putting them ahead of City into 4th. (This also happens to be West Ham's last home game at Upton Park. Could be an absolutely riotous send off.)
City are currently 4 points up on United, who have a game in hand.
City's remaining two games are against Arsenal and Swansea (with Arsenal obviously being the more likely opportunity for them to drop points)
One City loss/draw and United winning their 3 remaining games would put United in the 4th and final champions league spot. Two wins and a draw for United would likely not do it, given City holds the tie breaker on GD.
Here's hoping that City lose this weekend. If that happens, United-West Ham would essentially become a final for 4th place, with a win by either side putting them ahead of City into 4th. (This also happens to be West Ham's last home game at Upton Park. Could be an absolutely riotous send off.)
I wouldn't just assume a win against Norwich. Away matches against teams fighting for their lives aren't easy. And United has an awful away record in general this season.
Not assuming United gets 4th or even that the likelihood of it happening is greater than 50%. Just pointing out that IF Man City drop points, United has its destiny in its own hands.
Given that and the fact that United already lost to Norwich earlier this season, the team should be more than up for the match.
Given that and the fact that United already lost to Norwich earlier this season, the team should be more than up for the match.
I agree in principle, but Norwich is wretched. Ask SJH how he feels about that matchup.
In spite of United's uninspiring play for most of this season, we are two wins away from securing a champions league spot.
That's probably more an indictment on City and the absolute free fall they went into after KDB's injury and the announcement that Pep would be coming in during the summer.
As much as I'm hoping United finish 4th and win the FA cup, I also don't want either of those milestones to stand in the way of LVG being let go at the end of the season.
That's probably more an indictment on City and the absolute free fall they went into after KDB's injury and the announcement that Pep would be coming in during the summer.
As much as I'm hoping United finish 4th and win the FA cup, I also don't want either of those milestones to stand in the way of LVG being let go at the end of the season.
The names at the top of the table are different from how they usually look, but for all but one or two years in the past decade, 69 points would get a CL spot and often quite easily. If United can get to 20 wins, that it was Leicester and Spurs and not City and Chelsea that are above them doesn't really make much of a difference, I don't think, in terms of how to judge the year. That's a good year.
That's not true. The fourth place team has been >69 (or, in one case, at 69 with a better goal differential than United will have) every year except one in the last eight seasons. That will also be the second lowest point total for Manchester United in the Premier League era while their goal differential will almost certainly be the worst ever for a Manchester United team in the Premier League era, substantially worse than the Moyes year. And, last I looked at least, advanced stats show that they are actually outperforming their expected goal differential. This team is fucking terrible, at least by Manchester United standards.
That isn't what I said. I said that for the last several years, 69 points is good enough to get to the CL. And in fact, in the 15 years since there have been 4 CL spots, 69 points would have been good enough for fourth place (that is would have been enough to beat the fifth place team, often handily) in all but two. You can't completely reconstruct years, but this year looks just like most years. The average over the last 15 years for fourth place may well be a bit above 69, but not that much and if you put up that many points history suggests that you'll make the CL most of the time.
As for how it compares to prior United years, yeah of course it's not Fergie quality. But I was responding to the suggestion that United possibly making the CL would be only because of City being bad. Look, I hope West Ham wins by a half dozen and makes it moot, but if United goes W W that's a pretty standard CL qualifying campaign. Whether it's good enough to keep LVG or acceptable to United fans to have an Arsenally year is up to them and not something I have an opinion about.
As for how it compares to prior United years, yeah of course it's not Fergie quality. But I was responding to the suggestion that United possibly making the CL would be only because of City being bad. Look, I hope West Ham wins by a half dozen and makes it moot, but if United goes W W that's a pretty standard CL qualifying campaign. Whether it's good enough to keep LVG or acceptable to United fans to have an Arsenally year is up to them and not something I have an opinion about.
I have no idea what data you're looking at. In almost every recent year, the 4th place team has had >69 points.
Manchester United themselves would usually have been able to qualify on 69 points, but if they had 69 (instead of 85 or whatever) then those other points would have been distributed among competitors. And 69 would still be a very, very low total for a 4th place team in the post 2007 years.
Anyway, my point is less that LVG isn't Fergie, more that this team has been worse than Moyes' team in many respects. That's the more relevant comparison. And this after two years, bringing in 12-13 first team players over that time, and spending almost 200m pounds net. LVG should go.
Manchester United themselves would usually have been able to qualify on 69 points, but if they had 69 (instead of 85 or whatever) then those other points would have been distributed among competitors. And 69 would still be a very, very low total for a 4th place team in the post 2007 years.
Anyway, my point is less that LVG isn't Fergie, more that this team has been worse than Moyes' team in many respects. That's the more relevant comparison. And this after two years, bringing in 12-13 first team players over that time, and spending almost 200m pounds net. LVG should go.
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We're not looking at different data. You're asking how many points the fourth place team received, and I'm asking whether 69 points is generally enough to make it into 4th place. To make the champions league, you only need to finish above the 5th place team. The fifth place team since CL was expanded to four teams has received 66, 64, 58, 58, 65,60, 65, 63, 67, 62, 65, 72, 72, and 64 points. So, 69 points is a fairly standard CL achieving campaign. (It's true that if you look at a year where the 4th place team received 71 and the fifth place team 68, you cannot say for certain that 69 would have done it, but by and large 69 is a fourth place score.) Also, even you do ask how many points did the fourth place team actually receive, since the PL got a 4th spot, the average over the 14 years is 69.78.
But in addition to asking different questions about the data, we're arguing different points. I'm not trying to convince you that it's a good year by United standards.
It's a results business innit. But anyone who's watched Utd all season, like my dad, has been really disappointed (hopping mad) by the week in week out performances. But they have expensive individual 'talent' on the pitch, they do have quality...but as a team, they can be flat, disjointed, far from exciting. City have lost ten games this season. That's made it much easier for everyone, except Chelsea. Utd's goalie is player of the season yet again. Whenever utd next win the title, i'll wager the goalie won't win that award.
It's not easy building and rebuilding teams.
It's not easy building and rebuilding teams.
But not with half the handsomeness.
I can't believe that I set myself up to be the United defender with the "69 points is not bad" stuff. Cuz, yeah, they suck.
Fucking Carroll and Payet could have ended this already.
How on earth does Payet of all people knock one into row Z?
How on earth does Payet of all people knock one into row Z?
This is why i have only bad things to say about Pearl Jam, i just don't want to get caught out.
It's the internet that does it. It starts off innocent enough, me just trying to pretend I'm smarter than the next guy, and before you know it I'm defending United.
Something of a bit of interest in today's Guardian. There is an article stating if LVG stays on David De Gea wants to leave. Its being speculated that De Gea's agent leaked this. He shares an agent with Jose Mourinho.
Fuck you, Smalling. The last kick of the entire season you manage to cost me shit knows how many fantasy points by scoring an own goal & consequently losing 2 clean sheets as well (de Gea).