Serie A 2015/16 - Calcio dopo Pirlo

http://www.theguardian.com/football/the-gentleman-ultra/2015/aug/21/carpi-serie-a-alternative-club-guide-italy

Not first hand experience, but the Gentleman Ultra's alternative club guide is great, if you haven't read it (or if anyone else hasn't).

After round 10, Juventus had just 12 points and were 11 points behind the leaders. Since that point, they have run off a club record fifteen straight Serie A wins, culminating in last night's home victory against Napoli, who was on their own club record winning streak. Zaza score the winner in the 88th minute which beat Reina on a nasty deflection.

Juventus and Bayern is quickly becoming the best upcoming Champions League tie.

Serie A's defensive reputation has been ill-deserved for quite some years now; it was the highest scoring of the top 5 UEFA leagues in 2014-15. The biggest issue is lack of competitive balance, as the Milan clubs haven't factored into the last few title races.

Juve has been remarkable after some early stumbling. But with the departures of Vidal, Pirlo, and Tevez that was to be expexted, especially in the midfield.
But wow. Pogba and Cuadrado in the midfield are playing incredible. And as good as Pirlo was, the defensive black hole is no longer there. Plus Dybala is having a great season and making people forget about Tevez.

I'm a Napoli fan so yesterday was painful to watch. Pogba was the key to the game. Allan was overshadowed by him. And Juve's back four was able control Higuain even without Chiellini. I'm still holding out hope that Napoli will shake the loss off and take the Scudetto.

To be in first after that painful start is an amazing thing.

This was Napoli's one chance. The schedule isn't particularly kind to Juve to close out (and there's a long way to go), but barring injury there's no way Napoli can match stride for stride.

Del Piero is a legend that we're unlikely to see again, but Dybala shows flashes here and there. His strike against Frosinone was as close to a left-footed Del Piero as you'll see. I'm really excited to see how he and Pogba continue to grow together (assuming they can stay in Turin).

SocrManiac said:

To be in first after that painful start is an amazing thing.

This was Napoli's one chance. The schedule isn't particularly kind to Juve to close out (and there's a long way to go), but barring injury there's no way Napoli can match stride for stride.

Del Piero is a legend that we're unlikely to see again, but Dybala shows flashes here and there. His strike against Frosinone was as close to a left-footed Del Piero as you'll see. I'm really excited to see how he and Pogba continue to grow together (assuming they can stay in Turin).

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I think Juve's schedule looks much better than Napoli's going forward. The only land mine is probably at Milan on April 10th.

Domer said:

Serie A's defensive reputation has been ill-deserved for quite some years now; it was the highest scoring of the top 5 UEFA leagues in 2014-15. The biggest issue is lack of competitive balance, as the Milan clubs haven't factored into the last few title races.

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The stadium atmosphere hurts the perception of Serie A in comparison to the other big European leagues as well. England and Germany have well-maintained, well-designed stadia that are filled to capacity, whereas Serie A -- due to the fact that the country's been in economic crisis for a while, that the seedy ultras culture causes many fans to say 'screw it, I'm watching on TV at home', and that half of the country supports Juve or Inter rather than their local club -- features mostly outdated, half-empty stadia, oftentimes with fans separated from the field by a running track. So Serie A games, excluding those played at Juventus stadium and a couple other venues, have the visual appearance of being second-rate, rinky-dink affairs, even if they're not. (Just imagine this happening in the EPL or BL.)

I agree that it is a really good league. It's obviously fallen from where it was in the '80s and '90s, but there are still plenty of compelling players and teams, and my sense is that it has more top-to-bottom parity (if less drama at the very top in recent years) than something like La Liga.

nickandemmasuncle said:

The stadium atmosphere hurts the perception of Serie A in comparison to the other big European leagues as well. England and Germany have well-maintained, well-designed stadia that are filled to capacity, whereas Serie A -- due to the fact that the country's been in economic crisis for a while, that the seedy ultras culture causes many fans to say 'screw it, I'm watching on TV at home', and that half of the country supports Juve or Inter rather than their local club -- features mostly outdated, half-empty stadia, oftentimes with fans separated from the field by a running track. So Serie A games, excluding those played at Juventus stadium and a couple other venues, have the visual appearance of being second-rate, rinky-dink affairs, even if they're not. (Just imagine this happening in the EPL or BL.)

I agree that it is a really good league. It's obviously fallen from where it was in the '80s and '90s, but there are still plenty of compelling players and teams, and my sense is that it has more top-to-bottom parity (if less drama at the very top in recent years) than something like La Liga.

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Good read. Thanks for posting.

Juve with a 0-0 draw today against mid-table Bologna.

AirborneSas said:

Juve with a 0-0 draw today against mid-table Bologna.

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Didn´t see the match or lineups, but were they already saving some gas/players for Bayern?

nickandemmasuncle said:

The stadium atmosphere hurts the perception of Serie A in comparison to the other big European leagues as well. England and Germany have well-maintained, well-designed stadia that are filled to capacity, whereas Serie A -- due to the fact that the country's been in economic crisis for a while, that the seedy ultras culture causes many fans to say 'screw it, I'm watching on TV at home', and that half of the country supports Juve or Inter rather than their local club -- features mostly outdated, half-empty stadia, oftentimes with fans separated from the field by a running track. So Serie A games, excluding those played at Juventus stadium and a couple other venues, have the visual appearance of being second-rate, rinky-dink affairs, even if they're not. (Just imagine this happening in the EPL or BL.)

I agree that it is a really good league. It's obviously fallen from where it was in the '80s and '90s, but there are still plenty of compelling players and teams, and my sense is that it has more top-to-bottom parity (if less drama at the very top in recent years) than something like La Liga.

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This kinda misses the point though. The main difference between stadia in England & Germany vs. stadia in Italy is the Ultras, aka the virulently awful people who do attend games and behave ... poorly. More than the facilities themselves, it is the fan behavior that affects attendance, and the reputation of the league.

Schnerres said:

Didn´t see the match or lineups, but were they already saving some gas/players for Bayern?

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Almost the same lineup as the match against Napoli. Zaza got a start as a reward for the last match.

soxfan121 said:

This kinda misses the point though. The main difference between stadia in England & Germany vs. stadia in Italy is the Ultras, aka the virulently awful people who do attend games and behave ... poorly. More than the facilities themselves, it is the fan behavior that affects attendance, and the reputation of the league.

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There are two separate but related issues here. The first is the poor optics of Serie A games on TV (which I think causes the league to be perceived as being of lower quality than it really is), and the second is the lackluster attendance, which is one factor contributing to the poor optics on TV. And it's true that the decrepit, outmoded stadium issue isn't likely to be the major factor keeping fans at home (although I wouldn't be too eager to watch my team play here), but it still contributes substantially to a product that looks second-rate on TV, independent of the attendance issue, because structurally, these stadia are ancient (in a shitty soulless concrete hellhole kind of way, and not in a way that projects any kind of character) and often keep fans from being close to the action.

As far as the attendance issue itself, it's true that going to see il calcio isn't considered a family-friendly outing, and that's largely down to the ultras, so it does suppress attendance, but there's a lot of other related and unrelated stuff going on as well. There's just not a lot of disposable income for entertainment in Italy, thanks to widespread unemployment and a generally dysfunctional economy (particularly in the south), so that's another significant barrier that doesn't exist in England or Germany and definitely keeps people from going to games.

Then there's also the broad apathy that exists among many Italians for their local teams, for whatever reason - I'm not close enough to the culture to know whether frontrunning is more of an accepted thing, or whether Italian fans are just more realistic about the utter futility of rooting for clubs outside the Big Four / Five, but whatever it is, that's how the numbers shake out. (It's also consistent with my personal experience - my family in Italy has a local Serie B team [Pescara] that's regularly in the hunt for Serie A and occasionally makes the jump to the top level, but my relatives could give two shits and instead prefer to support Juventus, 400 miles away in Torino.) It's a strange thing, especially when you consider that Italians in Italy are known for not having a real strong sense of national pride (outside World Cups and European Championships), and tend to have more loyalty to their own neighborhood, village, or province over any larger unit of social organization.

And then as a knock-on effect of the problems associated with the ultras - particularly the Catania - Palermo riot that resulted in the death of a cop back in 2007 - there are security measures in place (fan ID cards, passport checks, etc.) that make it a hassle to even get tickets and get into the stadium, so that creates another disincentive for more casual fans that doesn't exist in other countries.

So it's a messed up situation, and the ultras are part of it, but there's a lot of other stuff going on. And it's worth noting that it's only a fraction (admittedly a non-trivial fraction, like 10%) of ultras who are acting like violent shitheads and creating these problems, which is unfortunate, because the nonviolent ones are in some ways a positive force for authenticity and against all of the modern football BS that's homogenizing and sterilizing the sport in a way that's becoming increasingly noticeable, particularly in the EPL and at FIFA tournaments. In a lot of ways, Germany seems to have gotten it right with their fan ownership regulations (combined with the fact that their country isn't a complete mess financially and socially).

nickandemmasuncle said:

There are two separate but related issues here. The first is the poor optics of Serie A games on TV (which I think causes the league to be perceived as being of lower quality than it really is), and the second is the lackluster attendance, which is one factor contributing to the poor optics on TV. And it's true that the decrepit, outmoded stadium issue isn't likely to be the major factor keeping fans at home (although I wouldn't be too eager to watch my team play here), but it still contributes substantially to a product that looks second-rate on TV, independent of the attendance issue, because structurally, these stadia are ancient (in a shitty soulless concrete hellhole kind of way, and not in a way that projects any kind of character) and often keep fans from being close to the action.

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Really good post. Thanks for writing.

Perhaps it's a stretch, but I sometimes believe that the more or less broken Spanish and Italian leagues reflect the more or less broken Spanish political and economic systems. By contract, for better or worse, the English and German economies are doing much better and the leagues reflect the order and stability of these systems.

bosox4283 said:

Perhaps it's a stretch, but I sometimes believe that the more or less broken Spanish and Italian leagues reflect the more or less broken Spanish political and economic systems. By contract, for better or worse, the English and German economies are doing much better and the leagues reflect the order and stability of these systems.

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Yes, it's near impossible for a league to be successful in spite of its domestic economy. If all you needed to do was develop talent, the South American leagues wouldn't be feeders for the big three in UEFA.

Why is the presence of Ultra groups not holding down attendance for Juventus, Real Madrid, , or FC Barcelona? Each club has very prominent groups. I view Ultras as being a massive liability for the clubs, but to pin the blame on attendance issues on just them is not accurate.

Vinho Tinto said:

Why is the presence of Ultra groups not holding down attendance for Juventus, Real Madrid, , or FC Barcelona? Each club has very prominent groups. I view Ultras as being a massive liability for the clubs, but to pin the blame on attendance issues on just them is not accurate.

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Not all Ultras are equal in Italy. Inter/Roma and Napoli Ultras are violent in the South. Juve is the MFY in Italy. They are either loved or hated across the country based on their trophies, and to a certain extent, their feeding of the national team.

Vinho Tinto said:

Why is the presence of Ultra groups not holding down attendance for Juventus, Real Madrid, , or FC Barcelona? Each club has very prominent groups. I view Ultras as being a massive liability for the clubs, but to pin the blame on attendance issues on just them is not accurate.

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Not all Ultras are equal in Italy. Inter/Roma and Napoli Ultras are violent in the South. Juve is the MFY in Italy. They are either loved or hated across the country based on their trophies, and to a certain extent, their feeding of the national team.

Vinho Tinto said:

Yes, it's near impossible for a league to be successful in spite of its domestic economy. If all you needed to do was develop talent, the South American leagues wouldn't be feeders for the big three in UEFA.

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I don't know, the English league reached its peak level of success from about 1975-1985, during which e.g. English clubs won 7 European Cups and made two more finals, while the English economy was a total mess (high inflation, the Winter of Discontent, strikes, Thatcher fighting the coalminers, etc.).

coremiller said:

I don't know, the English league reached its peak level of success from about 1975-1985, during which e.g. English clubs won 7 European Cups and made two more finals, while the English economy was a total mess (high inflation, the Winter of Discontent, strikes, Thatcher fighting the coalminers, etc.).

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And going back to Vinho Tinto's point, that was also the peak of hooliganism in England, or at least the perception of it. (The last final of that period was at Heysel.)

coremiller said:

I don't know, the English league reached its peak level of success from about 1975-1985, during which e.g. English clubs won 7 European Cups and made two more finals, while the English economy was a total mess (high inflation, the Winter of Discontent, strikes, Thatcher fighting the coalminers, etc.).

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The question is whether what happened in that time period is still relevant as a comparison. There is far, far more money and far, far more player mobility in the game now than there was 30-40 years ago. The local economy is more important than ever because you can't rely on the pre-Bosman environment or the non-existence of mega TV bucks in other countries to create barriers to losing players abroad.

Napoli is 25 mins away from pissing away 2 much-needed points against Milan.

The Price Is Wrong said:

Napoli is 25 mins away from pissing away 2 much-needed points against Milan.

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Next up for Napoli is a road trip to Firenze.

Maurizio Zamparini has never been known for his patience, so it was quite surprising that Giuseppe Iachini had lasted two years in the manager's position at Palermo. He took over in September 2013, won promotion in 2014, and stayed up in 2015. However, Iachini wore out his welcome on November 10 and was fired. What happened next is crazy, even by rosanero standards. In the span of just over three months, Palermo went through seven managerial changes. The end result has been Iachini's reappointment on February 15. Through all of this, Palermo are still 4 points clear of the relegation zone.
http://www.espnfc.com/palermo/story/2807994/palermo-bring-back-beppe-iachini-seventh-managerial-change

Napoli loses to Roma in an important battle for second place, handing Juventus its fifth straight scudetto, a feat that had not been accomplished since Torino did it in the 1940s.

Crotone has all but clinched promotion from Serie B and will make their debut in the top division next season. Cagliari looks likely to return as well.

It's fun to watch the locker room celebrations build. Of the five consecutive, this one is the sweetest after the disastrous start.

SocrManiac said:

It's fun to watch the locker room celebrations build. Of the five consecutive, this one is the sweetest after the disastrous start.

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I still put this at least second to the undefeated season in Del Piero's final year. It was great to see faith rewarded for all the players who stayed with the club during relegation.