Celtics trade rumors - Deadline 2/18, 3 PM

BigSoxFan

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The funny thing is that the "best case" scenario you describe is pretty much reality. This team is going to win 45-50 games, barring collapse or injury. They're going to get a top 5 pick, barring trading the pick. They have cap space and an attractive situation / coach.
Sorry - was referring to getting Simmons/Ingram in draft and Horford in FA as the "best case". I'd be happy with one of those things happening. If both did, I'd be ecstatic.
 

zenter

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Yeah, it's pretty amazing. To turn Pierce and Garnett, at that age, into such a huge haul is basically robbery. Ainge also got an all star point guard for free, turned Rondo into Crowder (I doubt there's a GM in the league that would prefer Rondo to Crowder at this point) and a first. Oh, and the Celtics are going to host a playoff series 3 years later.
According to my "math", here's the Pierce/Garnett deal today. The Garnett/Terry aspect is not truly breakable, but I did anyway for simplicity, with least valuable pick on Terry and most (at that time) with Garnett. Some of the TPE stuff was tough to reconstruct, so it may be off.

Terry --> Wallace + 2014 BKN 1st
- Wallace --> Lee
- 2014 BKN 1st --> Young

Pierce --> 10M TPE + Bogans + 2016 BKN 1st
- 10M TPE --> Zeller + Thornton + 2016 CLE 1st
-- Thornton + 2015 CLE 1st --> Thomas
- Bogans --> 2 CLE 2nds + 5M TPE (expired)​

Garnett --> Humphries + 2017 BOS/BKN 1st Swap + 2018 BKN 1st
- Humphries --> 5M TPE --> Brendan Wright --> 2 PHX 2nds (likely)

In Sum:

Terry, Pierce, Garnett --> Thomas, Zeller, Lee, Young, 3 (remaining) 1sts, 4 (remaining) 2nds

From this perspective, if Ainge basically had to give up one of the Nets picks for Horford, the trade is still coming out way ahead.
 

E5 Yaz

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amfox1

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A trade where NYK gets Mozgov, Lee and draft picks works, technically. NYK would then have $40 million under next year's cap and some draft picks.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Plenty intrigued by what he could do for the offense. Petrified of what he could do to the defense.
 

luckiestman

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Maybe KO ends up on Cleveland and breaks Love's shoulder again but this time in the ECF. In one universe of the multiverse, this happens.
 

CaptainLaddie

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FWIW

A five-way deal works.

Boston gets: Love
Denver gets: Blake
New York gets: Mozgov, Lee, Sullinger
Clippers get: Gallinari, Will Barton, Kyrie
Cleveland gets: Paul, Melo

add picks where necessary

GUYS I'M JUST SAYING THE MONEY WORKS. Bron gets his best friends (except Wade), Boston gets the idea big man for the offense, Denver gets Blake, Clippers get parts and can finally make things work AND gets a 23 year old elite (near elite?) PG, NY gets cap space and picks.

WHO SAYS NO
 

HomeRunBaker

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Really? Felt like they had one but I'm out and didn't feel like googling. Thanks though. I guess that ruins that dream.
TPE's last for one full year. The trades made last winter which resulted in a TPE occurred well before the deadline when the Rondo, Brandon Wright, Austin Rivers paper transaction, and Jameer Nelson trades took place. They are rarely useful anyway and typically expire worthless.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Isn't this pretty much a horrible draft class? Like overrated Ben Simmons and maybe a handful of rotational players? That Nets pick is maybe not as valuable as one would hope
 

Scott Cooper

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Am I the only one who is nervous about upsetting the apple cart ? The one thing that makes this team successful and fun to watch is the tenacity of their play. They play hard at all time and buy into their young head coach. I think that Howard has turned into a destroyer of team chemistry, Carmelo needs to be a one on one superstar and Love is not the greatest defender in the world. Love intrigues me the most but I worry about what one of these guys do to the cohesive unit we have.
 

Jeff Van GULLY

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The Celtics are really fun to watch and are a great group but they're not winning the championship this year. You trade for Love with a look to 16-17 and 17-18 and you hope he can assimilate quickly this season to enhance their playoff chances but I'm doubtful Stevens can get him up to snuff defensively without a full training camp.

Howard intrigues for a run this year only if the cost in nominal. He's a short-term rental and in the playoffs he may even sit a bit in crunchtime due to his poor FT shooting.

I'm pretty doubtful Ainge would re-sign Howard.
 

Montana Fan

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Isn't this pretty much a horrible draft class? Like overrated Ben Simmons and maybe a handful of rotational players? That Nets pick is maybe not as valuable as one would hope
It would be to Phil since NYK don't have a pick this year at all and are a building team. Melo doesn't fit the triangle, is close to Lebron and would be the perfect wingman for Lebron to kick it to. My sense is that the discussion is real and the Celts are involved because Love doesn't fit with the NYK.
 

HomeRunBaker

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if Cs get rentals like Horford and Howard, why should we give anything up other than late 1s or our bucket of 2s?
Disclaimer: We are 99.999% likely to not trade for either.

Howard's value should be much lower as he is a pure rental however the team Horford's Bird Rights are traded to gain a tremendous advantage in resigning him this summer as he can earn a greater amount by resigning with the team that holds his Bird Rights rather than by flying the coop. See what I did there. ;)
 

BigSoxFan

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It all depends on the price for Love. If the 2016 Brooklyn pick is required, I pass. I do think that Melo would be a good fit on Cleveland.
 

the moops

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It all depends on the price for Love. If the 2016 Brooklyn pick is required, I pass. I do think that Melo would be a good fit on Cleveland.
This makes little sense to me. What are the chances that the BRK pick becomes as valuable as someone like Kevin Love? There is only so much room for improving youngsters on any roster. And especially a Celtics team that has so many picks over the next few years.
 

Cellar-Door

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Isn't this pretty much a horrible draft class? Like overrated Ben Simmons and maybe a handful of rotational players? That Nets pick is maybe not as valuable as one would hope
No it isn't horrible. It's shallow for college, but the top 5 or so is probably as good as last year, as good as 2014 and much better than 2013. It's not as deep in college players, but a lot of good evaluators think it's a terrific year for Euros. The Nets pick has a lot of value, the problem is there are few real stars available who aren't impending FAs.
 

BigSoxFan

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This makes little sense to me. What are the chances that the BRK pick becomes as valuable as someone like Kevin Love? There is only so much room for improving youngsters on any roster. And especially a Celtics team that has so many picks over the next few years.
Or, you can wait and see on the Brooklyn pick and go after Horford, a better player, in FA and potentially have the best of both worlds.
 

the moops

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I think it is debatable that Horford is a better player than Love. Love is also signed to a much better deal than Horford will get this summer.
 

BigSoxFan

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I think it is debatable that Horford is a better player than Love. Love is also signed to a much better deal than Horford will get this summer.
Yes, but Love would likely require giving up a valuable draft asset among other pieces and Horford wouldn't.
 

the moops

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True. There is also not one shred of evidence that Horford would have any interest in coming to Boston though. There are going to be too many teams with lots of cap space that I find it doubtful that a guy like Horford would sign.

I do agree that a Horford + BRK pick is better than a Love - BRK pick though
 

BigSoxFan

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Clearly no guarantee but I'm maintaining my flexibility until the summer if I'm Ainge. Getting either Simmons or Ingram on a rookie deal would represent significant value. Regardless, doesn't look like Melo will waive no-trade clause anyways.
 

Van Everyman

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All this talk about whether Boston is an attractive place to play has me thinking:

Just about everyone thinks that Stevens has this team playing above its talent level, or, at a minimum, to its absolute maximum talent level. Thus far, we really only have Thomas (and maybe Crowder?) saying what a great place Boston is to play.

If you assume that buzz matters when it comes to making deals and signing elite FA's, should the Celtics be doing more to market Stevens' wizardry to lure talented but disgruntled veterans who haven't been able to get over the top? Or does Stevens need to demonstrate that he can do something like get this team to the ECF before the story shifts to "this guy wins wherever he goes" and the floodgates potentially open?

In today's NBA does any of this even matter?
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Horford's solid all-around game fits on this team better than Love's all-O, no D game. If they can get Love for Sully (and Lee) and late 1sts/2ds, ok, but given the team's success, I don't think they'll sink huge assets into getting him. By himself, he doesn't improve the team enough, and he doesn't seem to be a guy who helps attract a true FA superstar.
 

benhogan

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Am I the only one who is nervous about upsetting the apple cart ? The one thing that makes this team successful and fun to watch is the tenacity of their play. They play hard at all time and buy into their young head coach. I think that Howard has turned into a destroyer of team chemistry, Carmelo needs to be a one on one superstar and Love is not the greatest defender in the world. Love intrigues me the most but I worry about what one of these guys do to the cohesive unit we have.
+1. I'm with you. Lets go to war with what we have, which is a collection of role players that have bought into Stevens system. Maybe look to add a rental player by using our late first round or collection of #2 picks.

Playoffs, a 50-win season and winning the first round match-up would be considered a very successful season IMO. With the current players, the team friendly contracts and potentially high upside draft picks we own over the next 3 years we our set up to have a nice 5+ year run. We should see a decline in LeBron's play and the Cavs over the next few seasons and by the end of next season I could see the Celts vying for top honors in the East.

If Ainge/Stevens think spending big on Love now makes sense, thats fine too. These guys have done a remarkable job over the last year and should have carte blanche.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yes, but Love would likely require giving up a valuable draft asset among other pieces and Horford wouldn't.
This doesn't make sense to me I have it completely opposite. Cleveland isn't looking for draft picks.....they are looking to build a championship team right now. Horford is the one who would require a load of future assets as Atlanta would be wanting to acquire production on the super cheap rookie contracts that the Brooklyn pick(s) would provide.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I do think that Melo would be a good fit on Cleveland.
I don't feel his wife would ever agree on living in Cleveland.....this is why he (she?) required the no-trade clause to protect against something like this.

Melo would become a spot up 3-point shooter in their offense and a 3rd option like Love it currently. Cleveland doesn't need another iso player who needs the ball to play out of position.
 

BigSoxFan

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This doesn't make sense to me I have it completely opposite. Cleveland isn't looking for draft picks.....they are looking to build a championship team right now. Horford is the one who would require a load of future assets as Atlanta would be wanting to acquire production on the super cheap rookie contracts that the Brooklyn pick(s) would provide.
Umm...I was referring to Horford as a FA. That was pretty obvious.
 

Fishy1

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All this talk about whether Boston is an attractive place to play has me thinking:

Just about everyone thinks that Stevens has this team playing above its talent level, or, at a minimum, to its absolute maximum talent level. Thus far, we really only have Thomas (and maybe Crowder?) saying what a great place Boston is to play.

If you assume that buzz matters when it comes to making deals and signing elite FA's, should the Celtics be doing more to market Stevens' wizardry to lure talented but disgruntled veterans who haven't been able to get over the top? Or does Stevens need to demonstrate that he can do something like get this team to the ECF before the story shifts to "this guy wins wherever he goes" and the floodgates potentially open?

In today's NBA does any of this even matter?
At the end of the day, it's a player's league in this sense. Playing for Stevens is no doubt a plus for guys, but it's not as much of a plus as playing with Lebron or Curry or Durant.

Remember that Stevens worked his "magic" to a certain extent before the All-Star break of last year (Jordan Crawford was a serviceable basketball player for a while there), but this team really didn't turn into a good team until Thomas gave us an option on offense and Crowder made us a nightmare not just for 1's and 2's, but for small forwards too. Do not get me wrong for even a minute: Stevens' coaching and utilization of his players, and his ability to get them to buy into a selfless system, has been admirable, but this team has only a minor chance of winning against a healthy Cleveland team, and I think free agents whose first interest is winning understand that.

It's important that Danny not blow his load here: Horford or Howard would make this team better in the short run, but neither of them is guaranteed to stick around for their own individual reasons If this team can't add a talent like Boogie or Love through a trade or free agency, we'll have to build through the draft (and we will anyways). That's not a terrible result. It's not often that a 45-50 win team gets to add a (potentially) top 5 pick three years in a row
 

NoXInNixon

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This doesn't make sense to me I have it completely opposite. Cleveland isn't looking for draft picks.....they are looking to build a championship team right now. Horford is the one who would require a load of future assets as Atlanta would be wanting to acquire production on the super cheap rookie contracts that the Brooklyn pick(s) would provide.
That's why the Knicks are involved. Cleveland swaps Love for Melo, which they would view as an upgrade. I'm not sure it is, but I'm not sure it isn't. The Celtics get Love and the Knicks get some combination of players and picks from the Celtics. The Knicks don't have a first this year, so while I'm sure they would be asking for the Brooklyn pick, hopefully there's a package including the Celtic's own and the Dallas pick plus someone from the Celtics current roster that makes it worth their while. Or even one of the future Brooklyn picks. Just not this year's.
 

cardiacs

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Horford is the only rumor that has me excited at all. No to Love and Howard. If we could somehow get him with some amount of confidence he would seriously consider staying I would do it, with the caveat we don't overpay.
 

Devizier

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Cleveland is only trading Love for immediate contributors. So that means, either an established high-impact veteran like Anthony, which requires all number of unlikely approvals happening in addition to moving some draft picks, or by getting some of the best players from the Celtics' roster. I don't really like either approach, since you can't rely on the first and the improvement from the second seems marginal at best.
 

NoXInNixon

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I am completely on board with Love. I think if he comes to Boston, he will put up numbers closer to what he put up in Minny because his usage% will go back to the high 20's instead of the low 20's where it is right now. His shot distribution has changed a lot since he went to Cleveland, which has hurt his offense.

Of course, it depends on Melo being willing to to Cleveland to play with LeBron, and it depends on the Knicks not asking for the moon. But I think there's definitely a possible trade that helps all three teams.
 

southshoresoxfan

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I am completely on board with Love. I think if he comes to Boston, he will put up numbers closer to what he put up in Minny because his usage% will go back to the high 20's instead of the low 20's where it is right now. His shot distribution has changed a lot since he went to Cleveland, which has hurt his offense.

Of course, it depends on Melo being willing to to Cleveland to play with LeBron, and it depends on the Knicks not asking for the moon. But I think there's definitely a possible trade that helps all three teams.
This x 100. He's not an elite spot up three point shooter. But as a post/elbow facilitator he is elite offensively.
 

E5 Yaz

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We need to put the brakes on convincing ourselves that a Love trade has a chance of happening. Because of what has been stated previously, the Cavs and Celtics aren';t a particularly good 1-on-1 fit, which means the inclusion of a third team that can give something to Cleveland that can help them immediately. That narrows the options significantly for the sort of teams that can be involved, not to mention the difficulty of pulling off three-team trades.
 
FWIW, I can't see Boston signing Horford as a free agent unless they have his Bird rights. Too much competition in a crowded field - the Hawks have a much, much better chance of resigning him than the Celtics do of convincing him to leave money on the table and come to Boston (over other potential suitors).

Re: everyone's reluctance to trade this year's Brooklyn pick, let me ask you this question: how much of that reluctance is down to the hope that the pick might be the lottery winner? If I could guarantee that the pick would be the #4 and not the #1, for example, would you be willing to include that in a trade for Horford?
 

BigSoxFan

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No. Why would Celtics give up a top 5 pick for a rental? If we're talking Love, sure, I'd give up #4 for him.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Umm...I was referring to Horford as a FA. That was pretty obvious.
Right......but the only shot we have at him is to own his Bird Rights to maximize his contract as he'd otherwise take a significant financial hit to play in Boston while leaving his present team. This goes for most teams looking to sign him away from Atlanta this summer.
 

mcpickl

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FWIW

A five-way deal works.

Boston gets: Love
Denver gets: Blake
New York gets: Mozgov, Lee, Sullinger
Clippers get: Gallinari, Will Barton, Kyrie
Cleveland gets: Paul, Melo

add picks where necessary

GUYS I'M JUST SAYING THE MONEY WORKS. Bron gets his best friends (except Wade), Boston gets the idea big man for the offense, Denver gets Blake, Clippers get parts and can finally make things work AND gets a 23 year old elite (near elite?) PG, NY gets cap space and picks.

WHO SAYS NO
NY, The Clippers and LaLa Anthony say no.