Liverpool 2015-16: We Didn't Want To Play in Europe Anyway
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Just think if Sunderland had realized that a central defense of Sakho and Toure could be vulnerable before they were 2 down.
Wonder if anyone from the club will suggest a connection between the walk out and the swoon -- this could be a bit of a powder keg.
A friend of mine married a Liverpool native and he moved here to Pennsylvania a few months ago. He shared this on FB and I thought you guys might not have seen it.
Liverpool fan protest: It is time ‘customers’ fight back over ticket prices and be treated as fans again
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-fan-protest-it-is-time-for-customers-to-fight-back-and-be-treated-as-fans-again-a6858106.html
Liverpool fan protest: It is time ‘customers’ fight back over ticket prices and be treated as fans again
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-fan-protest-it-is-time-for-customers-to-fight-back-and-be-treated-as-fans-again-a6858106.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/12144970/Ticket-price-scandal-enough-is-enough-English-football-should-hang-its-head-in-shame.html
There's been a lot of good stuff written about the walk-out since the events of the weekend - but I think this piece by Chris Bascombe in The Telegraph is the best yet. The overall view of the media here has been surprisingly positive and there is a body of thought that a tipping point has finally been reached with regards to the cost of tickets - particularly as another 8Billion pounds is about to flood into the game from next season.
There's been a lot of good stuff written about the walk-out since the events of the weekend - but I think this piece by Chris Bascombe in The Telegraph is the best yet. The overall view of the media here has been surprisingly positive and there is a body of thought that a tipping point has finally been reached with regards to the cost of tickets - particularly as another 8Billion pounds is about to flood into the game from next season.
If there is one thing that has changed since I started following soccer, it's how I view the relationship between the fans and the team. I used to subscribe to the idea that it was a business and the people running it can do what they want. I've totally flipped to viewing the people running the club/franchise as managing a public trust. They aren't running a chain restaurant or a Dunkin Donuts. The way owners just shamelessly fuck the people who are their greatest supporters is unbelievable to me. The US is hopelessly submitting to the sports owners (Especially the NFL) and I don't expect that to ever change. Frankly, some fans take a strange sense of pride in how much they swallow. I'm glad that Scousers are at least trying to send the message to the club's director's that they need the fans - even if it's just for atmosphere for their precious television broadcasts.
Sturridge has spent 5 minutes on the pitch without hurting himself.
He has had to already change his boots, though.
He has had to already change his boots, though.
After 90 minutes plus 8 minutes of stoppage time, let's play 30 more!
Since half the guys on the pitch look completely gassed and both teams have already used all 3 subs, this could be messy.
EDIT: Actually, Liverpool still have 1 sub left.
Since half the guys on the pitch look completely gassed and both teams have already used all 3 subs, this could be messy.
EDIT: Actually, Liverpool still have 1 sub left.
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And there's the sucker punch...
For such a physical team, West Ham sure fall down a lot under no pressure.
For such a physical team, West Ham sure fall down a lot under no pressure.
Probably better to focus on other competitions, but man Benteke has seemingly lost all his end product.
Of course, I fully expect him to score 20 goals again in the Premier League if he's sold this summer.
Of course, I fully expect him to score 20 goals again in the Premier League if he's sold this summer.
Like Europa and League Cups? I really feel like top four is unrealistic at this point
That was Liverpool's 40th game of the season in all competitions, the most of any Premier League side.
I'd pay £77 as long as I got to sit next to this guy every game.
http://screamer.deadspin.com/liverpool-fan-cannot-fookin-believe-the-clubs-new-ticke-1758123393
http://screamer.deadspin.com/liverpool-fan-cannot-fookin-believe-the-clubs-new-ticke-1758123393
Love that shit. Love the accent and the patter. But he's totally on point, and his views were pretty much the same as those of most of the callers and Ian (gooner) Wright on 606 last weekend. Football is a working class sport, always has been and I think it always will be. Liverpool and many cities like Liverpool are working class cities and the fans are the lifebood of the club.
A caller on 606 pointed out that it's mostly the tourist fans that use the concessions inside Anfield. Fiver for a beer and so on. The TV money these clubs get is unreal. It has to filter down to the fans. A noisy stadium is a happy stadium. I know it's a relatively small number of seats that are priced at £77, but it's about more than just those seats. Ordinary folks should not have to save up to go to watch their local team and have a beer and a pint and take the kids and park the car.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35546090
Just in:
"Liverpool's owners have scrapped their controversial £77 ticket and apologised for the "distress caused" by last week's pricing announcement.
Thousands of fans left 77 minutes into Saturday's draw with Sunderland at Anfield in protest at the planned top-price £77 ticket in the new main stand.
Club owners Fenway Sports Group (FSG) said: "Message received."
Liverpool's dearest matchday ticket will now stay at £59, while the highest season-ticket price is also frozen."
Just in:
"Liverpool's owners have scrapped their controversial £77 ticket and apologised for the "distress caused" by last week's pricing announcement.
Thousands of fans left 77 minutes into Saturday's draw with Sunderland at Anfield in protest at the planned top-price £77 ticket in the new main stand.
Club owners Fenway Sports Group (FSG) said: "Message received."
Liverpool's dearest matchday ticket will now stay at £59, while the highest season-ticket price is also frozen."
Just two days ago I commented on a piece in The Telegraph by saying that we might have reached a tipping point in the relationship between ownership & fans and the events of this evening have, I think, born that out.
For the owners of a football club the size of LFC to write an open letter to fans & supporters in the manner that they have is nothing short of remarkable. My relationship with FSG is somewhat different to most LFC fans because of my connection with the Red Sox, but I'm first and foremost a fan of Liverpool Football Club and anything that shows us - ownership, management, players, supporters - as leading the way in pricing of attending the games can only be applauded.
Fuck all those supporters at other clubs who continually wave handfulls of cash whenever LFC visit their ground - taking the piss out of the areas economic hardships compared to the wealth of the south-east - when it comes down to it, it was us and us alone who have turned the tide, who have forced the ownerships of all clubs to recognise that without bums on seats / fans in the ground, this game is going nowhere.
This is not a victory for Spirit of Shankly (SoS) and all the other militant supporters groups - it should not be seen as a victory but a recognition of an ownership that has listened to concerns and has had the balls to actually reconsider their decisions.
Thank you.
For the owners of a football club the size of LFC to write an open letter to fans & supporters in the manner that they have is nothing short of remarkable. My relationship with FSG is somewhat different to most LFC fans because of my connection with the Red Sox, but I'm first and foremost a fan of Liverpool Football Club and anything that shows us - ownership, management, players, supporters - as leading the way in pricing of attending the games can only be applauded.
Fuck all those supporters at other clubs who continually wave handfulls of cash whenever LFC visit their ground - taking the piss out of the areas economic hardships compared to the wealth of the south-east - when it comes down to it, it was us and us alone who have turned the tide, who have forced the ownerships of all clubs to recognise that without bums on seats / fans in the ground, this game is going nowhere.
This is not a victory for Spirit of Shankly (SoS) and all the other militant supporters groups - it should not be seen as a victory but a recognition of an ownership that has listened to concerns and has had the balls to actually reconsider their decisions.
Thank you.
Serious question: In the few times I have been to Boston, I've seen a city that's been gentrified. And when i've talked to folks like Ryan/LTF and Kev (they might not remember) they've talked about areas I thought were Boston but are actually suburbs way out of the central belt. I genuinely don't know the geography and the lay out of Boston in terms of rich area poor area, gentrified area, but I know there's a lot of money in the area...I've often wondered if the the poorer/working class fans have been pushed out, cos they can still fill Fenway with realtively expensive ticket prices.
I remember me and Dummy How and Kev went to watch a Scotland match in a pub that i think was in or just off a black neighborhood in Boston and I really liked that neighborhood, the colour of the houses and the lay of the land. I felt at home there. it didn't feel like a poor area, but there were very few whight folks. Off topic I know just saying.
I'm far from an expert in this area, but my two-cents is that American sports have been screwing our working-class fans for years, but no one complains about it. Two reasons that come to mind are that most teams are located in wealthy American cities, so the cost of living is already high and there are enough wealthy people in these cities to buy the expensive tickets. We don't have the regional / local teams like European football -- there is no Eibar, no Bournemouth, no West Brom (we do have the Packers, the one shining light of a team in the middle of nowhere that embodies the spirit of the fans). That there are about zero teams in mid-market towns permits teams to charge elite-city prices. Hell, the NFL just booted the Rams out of St. Louis to Los Angeles, a move that speaks to the desire to cater to the wealthiest.
The second reason is that, for better or worse, American cities have gentrified at a remarkable pace since 2000. This gentrification has only reinforced the first point about the accrual of wealth in our cities. Boston, my home city, and Philadelphia, my current home, are two examples of the wealthy moving in and pushing out the working class folks--again, for better or worse.
Baseball is a different beast, I think. It's a sport that attracts the more white-collar group. Here in Philly, hockey tends to be more for the working class whites, while basketball has more urban and black roots. Football is the greater uniter -- everyone gets equally pissed off.
To fletch's point, gentrification is a controversial topic here in Philadelphia, just as in NYC and Boston. Philly is now a safer city with fantastic restaurants, an exciting business environment, and a thriving arts scene. But there is a loss of character that accompanies this growth. Everything is the same now. It's good in many ways -- I can drink good beer and eat good food at countless restaurants. The pity is that many--if not most--lack heart and soul and character. There is an equal amount of blame to be directed to the newcomers, myself included, because of our stories and personalities are just missing something that I can't quite articulate.
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You do realize that low ticket prices are a boon to scalpers and people who have the extra time to stand in long lines?
The American version of local/regional clubs in Europe is college sports. Our Bournemouth is something like Boise State.
American sports teams get away with all kinds of shenanigans that fans would never stand for in Europe. The most obvious is just moving the team to a more profitable city -- can you imagine if, say, Sheffield Wednesday decided they could make more money and get a shiny new stadium if they moved the team to London? That happens all the time in American sports (to cite the most recent egregious examples, the NFL Rams just moved back to LA after having moved from LA to St Louis for 20 years, the NBA Sonics/Thunder abandoned Seattle for Oklahoma City, the Cleveland Browns moved to Baltimore a decade or so after Baltimore lots its NFL team to Indianapolis). AFAIK, the only time this has happened recently in Europe was the Wimbledon/Milton Keynes Dons fiasco. Partly this is a function of a longer history in two ways -- team movements were more common in the early days when the clubs had less-established identities (e.g. Arsenal moved from Woolwich to North London), and there are very few untapped markets left in the UK for teams to which teams could move. The USA is really big, and there are internal migrations leading to new, growing cities that don't yet have teams (Oklahoma City is good example -- 30-40 years no one would have considered putting a major sports team there, but the population has grown by more than 50% over the last ~30 years).
But even besides moving, teams consistently screw with fans in ways that would be unimaginable in the UK. The current vogue is to build a new stadium with lots of fancy amenities for corporate clients, financed in part by charging season ticket holders "Personal Seat Licenses", which just means that you pay the team money for the right to keep purchasing your tickets. Liverpool fans got upset about ticket prices going up; imagine the fury if LFC had announced that season ticket holders would have to pay at minimum an extra 2000 gbp next year, separate from the actual price of the tickets, just for the right to keep buying the tickets they've already been buying for decades (this is exactly what happened to my father, a long-time 49ers season ticket holder, when the 49ers moved to their new stadium two years ago). And these new stadiums, while great in the expensive seats, are often worse from the perspective of the average fan: the additional tiers of luxury boxes mean the cheaper seats are much higher up and farther away from the playing surface, and making the seating areas more spacious and comfortable has a correspondingly negative effect on atmosphere.
Football in the UK is peculiar because it's far more a distinctly working-class sport than any sport is in America. The various sports here have distinctive demographic appeals, but they aren't really based on class (more race and geography), and there certainly has never been anything like the snobbery with which the UK upper classes view/viewed football. There are sports with a distinctly class-based appeal on the high end (tennis and golf, traditionally associated with the exclusive suburban country club, are the best examples), but not on the low end. For that reason, gentrification has had less effect on professional sports allegiance. Some fans have been priced out of buying tickets, but I don't think it has affected loyalty or TV viewing numbers very much. Sports are actually one of the few ways cities can feel truly united across class and racial lines.
There's a thread in P&G I think I'll articulate myself better at some point, but a large part of the reason I am no longer a Red Sox fan is the fucking hose job they did with the tickets. The ticket prices at Fenway are offensive, and frankly prohibitive to a lot of people who may want to attend.
Good for 'Pool fans for walking out though, I hope it works. Still smells like winning a battle in a war that can't be won.
Edit: I think (sadly) that doing a FC United of Manchester is the only real answer.
Good for 'Pool fans for walking out though, I hope it works. Still smells like winning a battle in a war that can't be won.
Edit: I think (sadly) that doing a FC United of Manchester is the only real answer.
Already done
http://www.afcliverpool.tv/our-club/about-afc-liverpool/
Was formed a few years ago to allow families to attend a match without breaking the bank.
Awesome. A great mission statement on that site.
I discussed it briefly on the Championship thread (responding to an innertatters question), but this problem isn't only in the top flight.
It says something about the state of U.S. Sports that when my wife and I went to Anfield last year, we paid £37 each for good seats in the Kop, and I was amazed how inexpensive it was not only compared to the cheapest NFL games, but even my college seats.
It's worth noting that until about 25 years ago, English clubs were essentially required to be non-profits. Club supporters felt they had an ownership stake in the club, even if legally they didn't. There remains a feeling that the brand equity in those clubs was stolen by the men who converted them into businesses (David Goldblatt goes on a nice rant about this in this week's Howler podcast). Anyone who wants an in-depth look at how all this happened should check out David Conn's book, What Beautiful Game?
While I feel for supporters that are priced out, I also have a bit of an issue with keeping them artificially low. Letting the same 44,000 people attend every game for well under market value, then letting those people sell them on the secondary market for a much higher price to people like me that just want to attend one game isn't ideal, either.
But there are non season tickets held and sold by the club to all home matches at low prices. And for those out of towners, there are tickets available through hospitality packages that are still sometimes cheaper than what we pay for just a ticket in this country. You can buy a ticket plus hospitality at the Sandon (including a prematch meal, non-alcoholic beverages, and post-match snack) for 137 pounds (£114.40 after VAT refund) for the City match right now.
Mate, i kinda see your point to a degree, but, sport ought not to be about 'market value' when it comes to ticket prices. Solving the issue of a black market is another problem, how big of a problem I dunno, you don't hear too much about it to be honest. The premier league is awash with money, and football clubs are part of the community. And, most important, this is not the fucking USA, and thank fuck for that. Shit can get ugly when you put a dollar or a pound on everything. If one day we need giant screens that say 'cheer for your team' or 'make some noise' like you have in some US sports stadia, it'll be a bad day.
Fletch, I agree. I wouldn't want to lose the atmosphere at the grounds if tickets were priced at the point of eliminating most fans, and I totally understand what clubs in general, and Liverpool in particular, mean to the community. I just wish there was a better way for all fans of the club to be able to see a game at Anfield. Like WBV said above, there's always the hospitality route if I want to get in the stadium, but I won't be able to buy a Kop ticket for a league game directly from the club in my lifetime. It's the nature of a side that has millions of fans but a stadium that holds 44,000. I guess I didn't mind the 77 GBP ticket as much as some because it was in a small area and most tickets in the stadium were being frozen or reduced in price. If they were being raised across the board, I would definitely understand the anger more.
Ultimately, it's a good thing that FSG listened to the fans and changed their plans. It's a delicate balance to be able to compete financially with clubs with greater resources without alienating the fan base.
Ultimately, it's a good thing that FSG listened to the fans and changed their plans. It's a delicate balance to be able to compete financially with clubs with greater resources without alienating the fan base.
Dude, we got two seats together in the Kop last year through the member sale. 37 pounds each. You just gotta keep track of when they hold the initial and late online member sales (assuming you keep a membership, which does of course increase the effective price).
Dear Mr WBV,
Thank you for purchasing with Liverpool Football Club.
Your order details are as follows:
Payment Reference:
Customer Product Date Time Price
WayBackVazquez LIVERPOOL V SWANSEA CITY
Turnstile: E
Stand: KOP
Area: 208
Row: 45
Seat: 0012 29/12/14 20.00PM £37.00
Mrs. WBV LIVERPOOL V SWANSEA CITY
Turnstile: E
Stand: KOP
Area: 208
Row: 45
Seat: 0013 29/12/14 20.00PM £37.00
Total Price: £74.00
Dear Mr WBV,
Thank you for purchasing with Liverpool Football Club.
Your order details are as follows:
Payment Reference:
Customer Product Date Time Price
WayBackVazquez LIVERPOOL V SWANSEA CITY
Turnstile: E
Stand: KOP
Area: 208
Row: 45
Seat: 0012 29/12/14 20.00PM £37.00
Mrs. WBV LIVERPOOL V SWANSEA CITY
Turnstile: E
Stand: KOP
Area: 208
Row: 45
Seat: 0013 29/12/14 20.00PM £37.00
Total Price: £74.00
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We're on the same page. As to competing with teams with more resources; firstly, Liverpool will increase revenue due to increasing ground capacity, that's a good thing. Second; and I think this has been talked about here and there in this and other threads, the increase in TV money for all clubs does to a degree level the playing field. Stoke spend 18M on a player, that's really significant. What's also significant is Newcastle have spent a lot of money this season and they're bottom 3. Man U have spend nigh on a quarter of a million pounds and they are unlikely to get Champions League football next season. Nevermind what the Foxes are doing at Crisp Packet Stadium.
I think, moving forwards in the Premier League, the quality of recruitment, not the money spent, the building of a team and in a broader sense a good squad, where all the players in that squad are worth putting on the team sheet, and lastly, a healthy youth system these are the elements that matter. And t's not easy, as we all know to get things right. I suppose i missed out having the right manager and managerial stability, but the life of a manager is an insecure profession and it's likely to remain that way.
Liverpool have to a lot wrong these last few years. recruitment as been patchy at best, but then what team's recruitment (who has designs on the Top4) hasn't been? I think sport is at it's best when people have to use their brains to compete, when it's not just about the chequebook. I thinlk we're heading that we for the next few years. if Liverpool are the smartest club, in most of the ways I've talked about, they will be a top four team. But that goes for Everton and Spurs too. Christ if Villa had their shit together they could have been top four.
Can't say Liverpool look particularly good right now, but great ball to Sturridge by Coutinho and great finish. The Prem has missed DS.