5 more years! 5 more years! /chantHow did that get through Mignolet?
If there is one thing that has changed since I started following soccer, it's how I view the relationship between the fans and the team. I used to subscribe to the idea that it was a business and the people running it can do what they want. I've totally flipped to viewing the people running the club/franchise as managing a public trust. They aren't running a chain restaurant or a Dunkin Donuts. The way owners just shamelessly fuck the people who are their greatest supporters is unbelievable to me. The US is hopelessly submitting to the sports owners (Especially the NFL) and I don't expect that to ever change. Frankly, some fans take a strange sense of pride in how much they swallow. I'm glad that Scousers are at least trying to send the message to the club's director's that they need the fans - even if it's just for atmosphere for their precious television broadcasts.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/12144970/Ticket-price-scandal-enough-is-enough-English-football-should-hang-its-head-in-shame.html
There's been a lot of good stuff written about the walk-out since the events of the weekend - but I think this piece by Chris Bascombe in The Telegraph is the best yet. The overall view of the media here has been surprisingly positive and there is a body of thought that a tipping point has finally been reached with regards to the cost of tickets - particularly as another 8Billion pounds is about to flood into the game from next season.
Like Europa and League Cups? I really feel like top four is unrealistic at this pointProbably better to focus on other competitions,
Love that shit. Love the accent and the patter. But he's totally on point, and his views were pretty much the same as those of most of the callers and Ian (gooner) Wright on 606 last weekend. Football is a working class sport, always has been and I think it always will be. Liverpool and many cities like Liverpool are working class cities and the fans are the lifebood of the club.I'd pay £77 as long as I got to sit next to this guy every game.
http://screamer.deadspin.com/liverpool-fan-cannot-fookin-believe-the-clubs-new-ticke-1758123393
So... when's the Fenway walkout over pricing out the working class fans?http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35546090
Just in:
"Liverpool's owners have scrapped their controversial £77 ticket and apologised for the "distress caused" by last week's pricing announcement.
Thousands of fans left 77 minutes into Saturday's draw with Sunderland at Anfield in protest at the planned top-price £77 ticket in the new main stand.
Club owners Fenway Sports Group (FSG) said: "Message received."
Liverpool's dearest matchday ticket will now stay at £59, while the highest season-ticket price is also frozen."
Serious question: In the few times I have been to Boston, I've seen a city that's been gentrified. And when i've talked to folks like Ryan/LTF and Kev (they might not remember) they've talked about areas I thought were Boston but are actually suburbs way out of the central belt. I genuinely don't know the geography and the lay out of Boston in terms of rich area poor area, gentrified area, but I know there's a lot of money in the area...I've often wondered if the the poorer/working class fans have been pushed out, cos they can still fill Fenway with realtively expensive ticket prices.So... when's the Fenway walkout over pricing out the working class fans?
I'm far from an expert in this area, but my two-cents is that American sports have been screwing our working-class fans for years, but no one complains about it. Two reasons that come to mind are that most teams are located in wealthy American cities, so the cost of living is already high and there are enough wealthy people in these cities to buy the expensive tickets. We don't have the regional / local teams like European football -- there is no Eibar, no Bournemouth, no West Brom (we do have the Packers, the one shining light of a team in the middle of nowhere that embodies the spirit of the fans). That there are about zero teams in mid-market towns permits teams to charge elite-city prices. Hell, the NFL just booted the Rams out of St. Louis to Los Angeles, a move that speaks to the desire to cater to the wealthiest.Serious question: In the few times I have been to Boston, I've seen a city that's been gentrified. And when i've talked to folks like Ryan/LTF and Kev (they might not remember) they've talked about areas I thought were Boston but are actually suburbs way out of the central belt. I genuinely don't know the geography and the lay out of Boston in terms of rich area poor area, gentrified area, but I know there's a lot of money in the area...I've often wondered if the the poorer/working class fans have been pushed out, cos they can still fill Fenway with realtively expensive ticket prices.
I remember me and Dummy How and Kev went to watch a Scotland match in a pub that i think was in or just off a black neighborhood in Boston and I really liked that neighborhood, the colour of the houses and the lay of the land. I felt at home there. it didn't feel like a poor area, but there were very few whight folks. Off topic I know just saying.
The American version of local/regional clubs in Europe is college sports. Our Bournemouth is something like Boise State.I'm far from an expert in this area, but my two-cents is that American sports have been screwing our working-class fans for years, but no one complains about it. Two reasons that come to mind are that most teams are located in wealthy American cities, so the cost of living is already high and there are enough wealthy people in these cities to buy the expensive tickets. We don't have the regional / local teams like European football -- there is no Eibar, no Bournemouth, no West Brom (we do have the Packers, the one shining light of a team in the middle of nowhere that embodies the spirit of the fans). That there are about zero teams in mid-market towns permits teams to charge elite-city prices. Hell, the NFL just booted the Rams out of St. Louis to Los Angeles, a move that speaks to the desire to cater to the wealthiest.
The second reason is that, for better or worse, American cities have gentrified at a remarkable pace since 2000. This gentrification has only reinforced the first point about the accrual of wealth in our cities. Boston, my home city, and Philadelphia, my current home, are two examples of the wealthy moving in and pushing out the working class folks--again, for better or worse.
Baseball is a different beast, I think. It's a sport that attracts the more the blue collar group. Here in Philly, hockey tends to be more for the working class whites, while basketball has more urban and black roots. Football is the greater uniter -- everyone gets equally pissed off.
To fletch's point, gentrification is a controversial topic here in Philadelphia, just as in NYC and Boston. Philly is now a safer city with fantastic restaurants, an exciting business environment, and a thriving arts scene. But there is a loss of character that accompanies this growth. Everything is the same now. It's good in many ways -- I can drink good beer and eat good food at countless restaurants. The pity is that many--if not most--lack heart and soul and character. There is an equal amount of blame to be directed to the newcomers, myself includes, because of our stories and personalities are just missing something that I can't quite articulate.
Already doneEdit: I think (sadly) that doing a FC United of Manchester is the only real answer.
Awesome. A great mission statement on that site.Already done
http://www.afcliverpool.tv/our-club/about-afc-liverpool/
Was formed a few years ago to allow families to attend a match without breaking the bank.
But there are non season tickets held and sold by the club to all home matches at low prices. And for those out of towners, there are tickets available through hospitality packages that are still sometimes cheaper than what we pay for just a ticket in this country. You can buy a ticket plus hospitality at the Sandon (including a prematch meal, non-alcoholic beverages, and post-match snack) for 137 pounds (£114.40 after VAT refund) for the City match right now.While I feel for supporters that are priced out, I also have a bit of an issue with keeping them artificially low. Letting the same 44,000 people attend every game for well under market value, then letting those people sell them on the secondary market for a much higher price to people like me that just want to attend one game isn't ideal, either.
Mate, i kinda see your point to a degree, but, sport ought not to be about 'market value' when it comes to ticket prices. Solving the issue of a black market is another problem, how big of a problem I dunno, you don't hear too much about it to be honest. The premier league is awash with money, and football clubs are part of the community. And, most important, this is not the fucking USA, and thank fuck for that. Shit can get ugly when you put a dollar or a pound on everything. If one day we need giant screens that say 'cheer for your team' or 'make some noise' like you have in some US sports stadia, it'll be a bad day.While I feel for supporters that are priced out, I also have a bit of an issue with keeping them artificially low. Letting the same 44,000 people attend every game for well under market value, then letting those people sell them on the secondary market for a much higher price to people like me that just want to attend one game isn't ideal, either.
We're on the same page. As to competing with teams with more resources; firstly, Liverpool will increase revenue due to increasing ground capacity, that's a good thing. Second; and I think this has been talked about here and there in this and other threads, the increase in TV money for all clubs does to a degree level the playing field. Stoke spend 18M on a player, that's really significant. What's also significant is Newcastle have spent a lot of money this season and they're bottom 3. Man U have spend nigh on a quarter of a million pounds and they are unlikely to get Champions League football next season. Nevermind what the Foxes are doing at Crisp Packet Stadium.Fletch, I agree. I wouldn't want to lose the atmosphere at the grounds if tickets were priced at the point of eliminating most fans, and I totally understand what clubs in general, and Liverpool in particular, mean to the community. I just wish there was a better way for all fans of the club to be able to see a game at Anfield. Like WBV said above, there's always the hospitality route if I want to get in the stadium, but I won't be able to buy a Kop ticket for a league game directly from the club in my lifetime. It's the nature of a side that has millions of fans but a stadium that holds 44,000. I guess I didn't mind the 77 GBP ticket as much as some because it was in a small area and most tickets in the stadium were being frozen or reduced in price. If they were being raised across the board, I would definitely understand the anger more.
Ultimately, it's a good thing that FSG listened to the fans and changed their plans. It's a delicate balance to be able to compete financially with clubs with greater resources without alienating the fan base.