NFL Hall of Fame Finalists for 2016
- Thread starter E5 Yaz
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Does the Hall always elect a bunch of local guys when the Super Bowl is in town? Because their version of the Vet's committee put in the legendary local owner (Eddie DeBartolo), Ken Stabler, and an old guy from San Francisco who played football at USF who also died in 2015 like the Snake. I'm surprised they didn't throw in John Brodie, Roger Craig and Cliff Branch while they were at it.
In about fifteen years, there will be about seven or eight former Colts from the Manning years in the Hall of Fame versus about four or five former Patriots from the same time frame, but the media will still be making excuses that Brady had better coaching/defense/skill players.
I'm really just criticizing the election process. Stabler is not one of those under-the-radar guys who needed the Seniors Committee to revive his candidacy because he was overlooked in his own time. He played the most famous position for one of the most famous teams ever, he was properly appreciated during his career (unlike, say, Ken Anderson), he was a three-time HoF finalist in 1990, 1993, and 2001. His candidacy got a thorough vetting. He's not a guy who has really benefitted from better data/analytics (as e.g. Anderson is, if anything analytics have been hard on him). The Seniors Committee can nominate anyone who's been retired for 25 years; Stabler has been eligible since 2009 for Seniors consideration without being nominated.
Then he dies, and suddenly he gets elected at the very next opportunity. It just illustrates how silly the process is. It's the same thing that happened with Santo -- the publicity resulting from his death led to a renewed appreciation/remembrance/reevaluation of his career which led to his election at the next opportunity. But a process influenced by those sorts of factors is a bad process. The only difference is that Santo was a no-doubt-about-it HoFer when his career was properly evaluated and Stabler is veeery borderline (I wouldn't have voted for him, and he's probably now the weakest post-merger QB in the HoF, but it's not a travesty that he's in).
Maybe not the media, but I have certainly heard comments about Moss and Gronk as ways of explaining away Brady's success.
OK. My feeling about Stabler is that he's a big game winner, something like David Ortiz but not of that magnitude, who I'm happy to see get in because I hate the stats are the only things that count voting philosophy. As for worst post merger QB in the HOF, you must be considering Namath as one who "straddled" the merger, and Namath's numbers were worse post merger than pre-merger. Also, Namath had probably just one standout high profile game (albeit a huge, huge, one) vs. several for Stabler. And, OK, some of Stabler's votes were probably sympathy votes.
So he's clutch like Jeter, with calm eyes and a winning attitude? Ok, I'll show myself out.
Seriously, it's a horrible process. These guys aren't artists, if Stabler shouldn't have gotten in while alive, his death should be inconsequential to the voters. But it was clear his death propelled him to the hall.
Namath straddled the merger but most of his best years (except for 72) were pre-merger, so I wasn't counting him.
Where does this "big-game winner" myth come from? Despite playing on a ridiculously stacked team with HoFers and pro bowlers all over the place (in addition to Stabler, the 70s Raiders had Shell, Upshaw, Otto, Biletnikoff, Branch, Tatum, Brown, and Henricks, among others, with an HoF coach in Madden), they won only 1 Super Bowl and Stabler finished with a 7-5 record in the playoffs. Good, sure, but hardly Brady or Montana or Bradshaw level They made the Conference Championship game 5 years in a row and won only one of them.
Stabler had an 88 INT+ - that's like if Ortiz had a .300 OBP. Ortiz is a borderline candidate whose postseason resume may get him in. Putting aside whether Stabler was even a big game winner as coremiller said, he shouldn't sniff the HOF. He gave the ball to the other team at one of the highest rates in history. That's not good.
Voters started the day by whittling a group of 15 finalists down to 10. Those eliminated on the first cut were K Morten Andersen, S Steve Atwater, WR Terrell Owens, G Alan Faneca and RB Edgerrin James, meaning the five modern era candidates who made the final 10 but were not selected were QB Kurt Warner, T Joe Jacoby, RB Terrell Davis, S John Lynch and Coach Don Coryell.
http://www.zoneblitz.com/2016/02/06/2016-hall-of-fame-class-unveiled/
http://www.zoneblitz.com/2016/02/06/2016-hall-of-fame-class-unveiled/
Career averages are a little hard on Stabler because he had a very peaks-and-valleys career and his case is all peak value. He was legit great in 74 and 76, above average in 72, 73, 77, and 79, and about average in 75. But he stunk pretty badly in his other five seasons (which is why his career numbers are weak), so those 6-7 seasons are basically all his value. Are two elite seasons and 4-5 additional good ones enough for the HoF, esp. given his favorable teammates/coaching? I see the case, but I would draw the line above him.
Yeah, he really fell off after leaving Oakland plus he only had 74 attempts in 72 so his entire candidacy is based around 73-79, a period in which he still had a 5.9 INT%. I think we're in agreement that Anderson is a much more deserving contemporary.
But dude, that guy in that bar that time...he totally said that. And then on Facebook...
Perhaps the following will not excuse my hyperbole, but it certainly proves that I am not the only one capable of writing something stupid:
http://www.footballperspective.com/guest-post-brad-oremlands-best-qbs-in-history-6-10/
The Indianapolis Colts teams from 2001 through 2010 won 114 regular season games (45 losses) and won one super bowl. They are represented in the Hall of Fame by Bill Polian (1998-2011), Tony Dungy (2002-2008), and Marvin Harrison (1996-2008).
The New England Patriots from 2001 through 2010 won 121 regular season games (39 losses) and won three super bowls. They are represented in the Hall of Fame by Junior Seau (2006-2009).
All of the representatives from the Colts may be viable candidates on their own individual terms, and, of course, people who represented either organization (or both in Adam Vinatieri's case) during that century are not yet eligible for the Hall of Fame. Still and all, it just doesn't seem right to me.
I guess what I am saying is that Ty Law should be in the Hall of Fame.
The New England Patriots from 2001 through 2010 won 121 regular season games (39 losses) and won three super bowls. They are represented in the Hall of Fame by Junior Seau (2006-2009).
All of the representatives from the Colts may be viable candidates on their own individual terms, and, of course, people who represented either organization (or both in Adam Vinatieri's case) during that century are not yet eligible for the Hall of Fame. Still and all, it just doesn't seem right to me.
I guess what I am saying is that Ty Law should be in the Hall of Fame.
You all remember the HOF fast track Welker was on before Brady started riding his coattails, hmm?
Law is a pretty borderline case. From CBs during his era, he's definitely behind Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey, and Aeneas Williams. Williams is already in, and I would guess the other two get in easily. Then there's a second tier with Law, Ronde Barber, Troy Vincent, and Sam Madison where it's hard to separate them. Law has very good postseason value, but Barber does too. It will come down to how many corners from that 1995-2005ish period they want to put in, but I'd be surprised if any of the 2nd-tier guys make it.
Two of three Colts guys who are in are the coach and GM. Obviously Belichick (who combined both those roles) is as much of an HoF lock as there can be, he just hasn't retired yet. Belichick, Brady, Moss, Gronkowski, and Revis (only 1 year in NE, but it was a good one) are all very likely. Seymour, Wilfork, Law, and Viniateri will have cases but are less likely.
From the Colts, obviously Manning will get in. Maybe Freeney also. Wayne and Edge James will have cases, but they're going to get swamped by contemporaries (for Wayne, it's Steve Smith, Andre and Calvin Johnson, Fitzgerald, Boldin, etc.; for James, it's Faulk/Martin/Tomlinson/Barber/Alexander/Holmes/etc.) and will struggle to stand out.
I don't think in the end there will be a big disparity.
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#Packers will face the Colts in the Hall of Fame Game in Canton on Aug. 7
#Packers will face the Colts in the Hall of Fame Game in Canton on Aug. 7