#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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DourDoerr

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Adam Schefter is the only person at ESPN who does not carry water for the NFL
I agree.

Given the accepted wisdom that the other writers for ESPN are muzzled due to the network's desire to carry extremely lucrative NFL games, I'm wondering why Schefter is allowed to buck that authority. Every time he issues a contrary report to deflategate, he undermines the work of every other ESPN reporter. Why does ESPN risk making a fool of the entire network and its reporters? The pretense of balance?

And at what point does Schefter lose the access that makes Schefter Schefter?
 

JohnnyTheBone

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I caught the Schefter interview, and thought D&C&M did a good job of pressing the issue. No other forum among Schefter's myriad media stops will put that kind of heat on him. Schefter is smart enough and principled enough to tell the truth, because he knows how ridiculous it sounds to try to justify the NFL's conduct. He refuses to go down that road, so good on him. At the same time, it's a tacit admission that he isn't up for the job of crusader despite knowing the truth. Nobody else in his profession will, either, so the NFL will never have to admit their mistake.
 

soxhop411

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Wait.

“@PhilAPerry: Goodell told Rich Eisen that testing PSI ”wasn’t a research study.“ But NFL does have measurements and are evaluating, per Blandino.”
 

soxhop411

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Deflategate is back in the news this week as Roger Goodell said the NFL conducted “spot checks,” not a research study this season when testing PSIs at random games this season. Goodell said there were no violations and didn’t make any comments on whether or not the league would release any data from the checks.

Wednesday night, appearing on Sirius XM radio, vice president of NFL officiating Dean Blandino was asked about the testing and he said the league is still “evaluating” the information collected.

“We did spot checks throughout the year and we measured PSI levels and recorded that information,” Blandino said. “Right now we’re evaluating the information. We didn’t have any violations this year, but again, we’re still in that evaluation phase to look at the information and then we’ll see what that tells us.”

This topic is likely to continue over the next few days, as Goodell gives his state of the league address and takes questions on Friday afternoon.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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"No violations" has to mean they judged the halftime PSI versus the expected PSI using the Ideal Gas Law, right? This whole scandal hinges on the gauge that Walt Anderson says he didn't use.
 

pappymojo

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Wait.

“@PhilAPerry: Goodell told Rich Eisen that testing PSI ”wasn’t a research study.“ But NFL does have measurements and are evaluating, per Blandino.”
Was this another example of the NFL saying something, watching the reaction turn negative, and then immediately reversing course and saying something else?
 

Auger34

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I think you may have stopped reading the King excerpt too soon (understandable given King's general track record). Even he eventually says his belief is that the NFL wasn't trying to understand what the truth was.
I read the whole thing and I agree more with drleather's interpretation than yours. Instead of framing it like Schefter (and anyone with half a brain would) King takes Goodell at face value and thinks they really only did "spot checks" and that everyone was on their P's and Q's. In reality, it's almost 100% that Goodell made sure to test these things like fucking crazy and found nothing that fit their narrative so decided to bury it.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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"We didn't catch anyone scheming to stick needles into footballs. No violations!"
Right, it's classic NFL doublespeak. It could mean the balls were always between 12.5 & 13.5. It could mean they were within acceptable IGL range. It could mean they didn't see any attendants take a piss on the balls. It could mean NFL employees stopped stealing game balls to sell for profit. It could mean all the spot checks occurred in conditions that would be the least conducive to pressure loss or gain.

They were hoping to leave it at "no violations" and have nobody follow up because it's Super Bowl week.
 

pedro1918

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I read the whole thing and I agree more with drleather's interpretation than yours. Instead of framing it like Schefter (and anyone with half a brain would) King takes Goodell at face value and thinks they really only did "spot checks" and that everyone was on their P's and Q's. In reality, it's almost 100% that Goodell made sure to test these things like fucking crazy and found nothing that fit their narrative so decided to bury it.
I agree. Roger and the league should be desperate for some kind of corroborating data. If they weren't "test(ing) these things like fucking crazy" he's a bigger fool than I can possibly imagine.

Of course that is a strong possibility.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I read the whole thing and I agree more with drleather's interpretation than yours. Instead of framing it like Schefter (and anyone with half a brain would) King takes Goodell at face value and thinks they really only did "spot checks" and that everyone was on their P's and Q's. In reality, it's almost 100% that Goodell made sure to test these things like fucking crazy and found nothing that fit their narrative so decided to bury it.
I simply don't think that is a reasonable interpretation of what King actually said; his point is that they should have done full testing to learn something, and that even if (note that uses 'if' there) we take the NFL at face value they badly screwed this up and the public deserves to see the measurements. I don't see how you can realistically suggest he's wrong about those things.

King's comment below:

The checks on the footballs should have been done to determine what happens to the air pressure in a football after it has been used for a half, in all kinds of weather. If that’s not what the NFL did this season, then the league either doesn’t want to know the truth about what weather, and general use, does to the air pressure in a football (which is my belief). Or the league made a mistake in what it went after in the spot checks at halftime of selected games this year. The NFL owes the public an accounting of what exactly was found when the measurements were taken throughout the year.
I don't even like King---I think he's a shill. But in this case, his take is reasonable even if we might want to see a more aggressive framing of his point
 

edmunddantes

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No we don't have the data.

Yes we do, we're evaluating the data.

They literally stick their fingers into the air to see what reaction they get, and they then pivot to the greatest outrage.

Why can't I get paid 7-8 figures annually to be that craven?
 

djbayko

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Of course they have the data. To believe otherwise is to believe they purposely conspired to get rid of the data. You have to actually try hard to not leave some sort of record. If I'm a ref sitting there at halftime, and the rules don't say anything about keeping a record of the numbers, after all of the shit that went down last year, you'd better believe I'm doing it anyway.

They realized they sounded like lying fools. Idiots.

I love the idea that they're just looking at the data for the first time and realizing "Oh, shit, we have some numbers that are out of range. What was that science equation again? Wait, we needed to record temperature? Fuck! What the hell is 'n'?"
 
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Van Everyman

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Does anyone know when Goodell's day he ACTUALLY makes himself available to the media is? Seems like an interesting question would be not just "ARE you going to release the PSI data?" but "Why WOULDN'T you?"

I mean, there's really no justification whatsoever for sitting on this that isn't self-serving and manipulative. You suspended the reigning Superbowl championship quarterback and took away two of the team's draft picks over this. This shouldn't be that hard of a question to ask.
 

Bleedred

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Does anyone know when Goodell's day he ACTUALLY makes himself available to the media is? Seems like an interesting question would be not just "ARE you going to release the PSI data?" but "Why WOULDN'T you?"

I mean, there's really no justification whatsoever for sitting on this that isn't self-serving and manipulative. You suspended the reigning Superbowl championship quarterback and took away two of the team's draft picks over this. This shouldn't be that hard of a question to ask.
Perhaps Mike Reiss can be nudged to pursue the commissioner with this type of Q?
 

snowmanny

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The question to ask is whether the footballs in the Vikings game measured at less than 12.5 psi at the end of the first half.

If the answer is yes, then there is a problem with the integrity of the game in that first half of play.

If the answer is no, then either the balls started at >13.5, and there is a problem with the integrity of the game, or they are lying.
 

Van Everyman

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No chance he'll answer that. "We're still reviewing the data, etc." will be the response to that.

The only chance you have to get an actual answer from him is to give him no way to wriggle out of it. Imagine it could go something like this:

MR: "Will you be releasing the results of the PSI studies done during this season – and if not, why not?"

RG: "Well, Mike, we study all kinds of data during the course of a year – some of which we release to the public and others which we simply use on an internal basis."

MR: "But in this case, you suspended the Super Bowl MVP and docked his team two draft picks over an alleged infraction – the science of which, to put it charitably, has been seriously questioned by the scientific community. Why wouldn't you release the data to prove them wrong?"

RG: "Well, Mike, I'd have to disagree with you there. We had Exponent and others in the scientific community weigh in on this and they came out solidly behind the conclusion we laid out in the report prepared by Ted Wells."

MR: "But Commissioner Goodell, with all due respect, MIT, AEI, the New York Times, all have said the science behind your conclusion was terribly flawed. Why wouldn't you want to set the record straight here?"

RG: "Well, if we feel we need to, we might, Mike. But there's a time and a place for everything – and when we feel that Dean and his team have had the chance to properly evaluate the data we have, we will make sure that a summary of any relevant findings is shared with the media and anyone else who is still interested in this matter. Next question."

Writing this out makes me realize that Reiss better ask this question before Volin does.
 

bankshot1

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I'm pretty sure that the NFL does not allow for follow-up questions to avoid just such an exchange. So what is needed is several like minded reporters to follow-up on RG's likely evasive non-answers.
 

Harry Hooper

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I'm pretty sure that the NFL does not allow for follow-up questions to avoid just such an exchange. So what is needed is several like minded reporters to follow-up on RG's likely evasive non-answers.
Yes, here is last year's video. We had a game thread for it here which I can't find. Another byproduct of the Pats not playing in the Super Bowl is that there's no reason for Glampers to take a question from the NE media.
 
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AB in DC

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Yeah, it won't matter just how artfully someone asks the question -- Goodell will find a way to blow it off and then move right on to the next question.
 

DourDoerr

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I caught the Schefter interview, and thought D&C&M did a good job of pressing the issue. No other forum among Schefter's myriad media stops will put that kind of heat on him. Schefter is smart enough and principled enough to tell the truth, because he knows how ridiculous it sounds to try to justify the NFL's conduct. He refuses to go down that road, so good on him. At the same time, it's a tacit admission that he isn't up for the job of crusader despite knowing the truth. Nobody else in his profession will, either, so the NFL will never have to admit their mistake.
Listening to Schefter over the years, he's light years ahead of all the other insider reporters in content and how well and precisely he imparts it. He's clearly very smart and I agree he knew how bad it looks for a reporter to appear "bought" and, even worse, have to keep up the pretense indefinitely as the rest of the world snickers.

The other insider reporters - Mort, etc. - were apparently not as smart or didn't care to see where their initial reporting might lead on their own, but must now see that Schefter has carved out a position that's a danger to them and their credibility. Even if the NFL and ESPN shrugged off Schefter and allowed him some room, you'd think human nature would take over at some point and the other inside reporters would be howling for some cover from their overlords.

King, it seems, has been walking his position back for some time beginning with his admission of being wrong in believing the initial report of 11 of 12 balls were under-inflated and PKB's quotes of his latest article bears out that he too no longer wants the burden of supporting a position that clearly goes against a force the NFL can't (or at least shouldn't) defeat - science. It'll be curious to see which reporter follows suit - presumably Mort's off the hook for now.
 

DJnVa

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Brad Hoover, formerly of the Panthers, is now saying he thinks the Pats cheated in Super Bowl 38. Why? Because after being shut down in the first half, his team scored a lot more in the second half. That means the Patriots had to have been cheating in the first half.

He leaves out the fact that both teams scored more points in the second half (so, were Panthers cheating?), and had Carolina not connected on an 85 yard TD pass, it's likely they would have scored just about the same in both halves.
 

BlackJack

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When did Rodney Harrison break his arm? Wasn't that a bit of a factor in that 4th quarter or am I remembering that wrong?
 

BigSoxFan

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When did Rodney Harrison break his arm? Wasn't that a bit of a factor in that 4th quarter or am I remembering that wrong?
If I recall correctly, Harrison, Poole, and Wilson all got hurt with Wilson going down on the long bomb to Muhammad. The Panthers' tying TD drive after that was against our secondary backups.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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When did Rodney Harrison break his arm? Wasn't that a bit of a factor in that 4th quarter or am I remembering that wrong?
It happened during the Panthers' final drive. In the play by play log, Harrison is credited with a tackle on the last two plays before the two minute warning. I think the break came on the last tackle, a pass play to Muhammed. The next play after that was a 31 yard pass play that moved the Panthers into the red zone.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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It happened during the Panthers' final drive. In the play by play log, Harrison is credited with a tackle on the last two plays before the two minute warning. I think the break came on the last tackle, a pass play to Muhammed. The next play after that was a 31 yard pass play that moved the Panthers into the red zone.
He broke his arm on the second to last play he was in the game, coming up to make a tackle on the RB on a draw. On the replay you can see him looking at his arm a bit. He couldn't get off the field in time and had to play one more snap with his arm hanging down by his side. He came over to make the hit on Muhammed and you can see he's holding the arm against his side as he does so.That was right at the 2 minute warning.

Shawn Meyer was in coverage on the long 30 yard pass on the next play. Zone coverage. Bad zone coverage. Oy.

EDIT: of course it was Asante who completely blew the coverage on the tying TD to Proehl.
 
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Kenny F'ing Powers

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Brad Hoover, formerly of the Panthers, is now saying he thinks the Pats cheated in Super Bowl 38. Why? Because after being shut down in the first half, his team scored a lot more in the second half. That means the Patriots had to have been cheating in the first half.

He leaves out the fact that both teams scored more points in the second half (so, were Panthers cheating?), and had Carolina not connected on an 85 yard TD pass, it's likely they would have scored just about the same in both halves.
Loser makes excuse for being loser. No wayzzzz.
 

Zedia

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“@DanWetzel: Goodell’s answer is so circular, convoluted and contrary to written NFL policy I think he even confused himself. https://t.co/POxkgf05pk
That link goes to Christopher Price's twitter and write-up. From that, here's the whole infuriating exchange:

Curran: “Earlier this week you said during your “spot checks” that no violations of the PSI rule were found. What actually constitutes a violation now? Did you find anything under 12.5? In the spirit of getting better, doesn’t this whole thing demand transparency in terms of what the numbers were and what the standards will be going forward?”

Goodell: “As you know, at the beginning of the season we made changes to our protocols of how we were going to manage the footballs. That is how they were going to be managed in the moment. They were taken into the stadium right after the game. We have implemented that. As part of that, and it happens in most of our game operations areas, we conduct random checks. We make sure the clubs understand that we will look at that type of procedure and make sure there were no violations of that. We did that, in a very limited basis. We don’t disclose all the specifics on that because it’s meant as a deterrent. If you tell everybody how many times you’re checking, which games you’re checking, it’s not much of a deterrent. It’s a deterrent when they think that game may be being checked.

“It’s also important that the data that was collected in that was not data for research. It was data that collected just to see if there was a violation. Our people never found violations. There was never an accusation of a violation by any other club. And so we’re comfortable that this policy, this rule was followed by our clubs. And we do this across the board on our game operations. There are many areas in our game operations that requires that type of thing.

“Second of all, we did a great deal of research, scientific analysis last year. That was part of the appeal hearing. There was Ted Wells’ report where [he wanted] independent people to study this type of issue. The intent of what we were doing was not a research project, it was to make sure that our policies were followed just like we do in other areas of our game operations.”
 

Harry Hooper

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Either the NFL wants to wait on releasing data until after the appeals case is over, or some evil genius is pulling a setup here where the NFL will be berated into releasing numbers that are all 12.3 psi or more. "We were holding back the results since the Patriots had already been significantly punished, and we wanted to keep the focus on SB 50."
 

djbayko

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That link goes to Christopher Price's twitter and write-up. From that, here's the whole infuriating exchange:
Okay, so I misunderstood previous summaries of Goodell's answer. When he talks about "deterrent" he's talking about not being able to disclose which games they will check the balls. Well, no shit, Sherlock. That's not what people are asking for. We want to know when you randomly decide to check the balls, what criteria do you use to determine if a violation occurred? Of course, he goes on to say that the purpose of this new procedure is to look for violations, not to conduct a scientific study. No shit. Go back to question #1 you robot.
 

DJnVa

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There's also the idea that if the procedure is different the results aren't a straight apples to apples comparison.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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Before the frigid Vikings game: "Sal Paolantonio of ESPN reports that the NFL will implement its random PSI testing protocol at Sunday’s Seahawks-Vikings game."

Before the Pats/Titans game: Lisa Kraus Edwards reported: "League source tells me footballs at #TENvsNE will be weighed before, at half & postgame. It's random.. but 1st time this season at #Patriots"

I don't know if there are more examples from other games out there, this was after a quick search.

So what's the point of even doing checks if teams are going to learn about it before hand? Because the NFL didn't want to find footballs outside of the 12.5-13.5 range. They didn't want to admit they were wrong and had no clue about the Ideal Gas Law. And now that the numbers show the NFL was wrong, Roger is trying to throw them out. He's trying to spin it by saying they didn't have any violations this year and he's happy about that. He's trying to get us to look the other way while he tosses the numbers in the trash.
 

Ed Hillel

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Hundred bucks says these "spot checks" all occurred pregame, which is awesome because that's before the weather impacts them or anyone even has an opportunity to cheat.
 

dhappy42

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According to their procedures, the random checks are at halftime.
My distrust of the NFL knows no limit. They probably tested the balls at the end of halftime, indoors, after they had time to warm up.

If (big if) the NFL ever releases any raw data, I would bet $100 it is missing some crucial information -- time of measurement, temperature, something that makes the data scientifically useless -- so they can interpret it however they like.

"We're pleased that we haven't had any violations" is a huge indication that they've fudged the data again.
 

djbayko

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Oh, we know it's garbage, scientifically. I'm just saying that I'd be surprised if they didn't follow the letter of their law, which is very sparse, since it goes to the integrity of the game and all. They don't need to cut corners to frame it how they want.
 

thehitcat

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Fuck you Roger. They just booed the GOAT in his hometown because of you and this bullshit. I am so done with this league after Tom and Bill go.