Thanksgiving Week Game Thread

dcmissle

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Carolina's schedule this year:

jags
texans
saints
bucs
seahawks (in Carolina)
eagles
colts
packers (heavily-injured and in the middle of a collapse)
titans
redskins
cowboys
U play who you U. You can argue that the whole League sucks. The number of teams with a better than .500 record heading into this weak is pitiful.

Example. The Pats schedule heading into tonight is really weak, especially with Miami and Buffalo imploding. They have played one good team, Pittsburgh, with a pitifully weak secondary.
 

EricFeczko

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Seahawks game was in Seattle. But they really don't have a tough game left to the playoffs (2 vs. Atlanta, @ NO, @NYG, TB)
Meh. Seahawks are pretty vulnerable this year. They've been unable to beat anyone with a winning record so far.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Carolina's schedule this year:

jags
texans
saints
bucs
seahawks (EDIT: In Seattle)
eagles
colts
packers (heavily-injured and in the middle of a collapse)
titans
redskins
cowboys

EDIT: Stupid graphics on panthers.com website...
The Seattle game was in Seattle.

But who is good? The Pats? Denver? Cincinnati? There are only like 4 good teams in the league.

Edit: Green Bay and Seattle are as close to two good wins in the NFC as anyone else has.
 

EricFeczko

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U play who you U. You can argue that the whole League sucks. The number of teams with a better than .500 record heading into this weak is pitiful.

Example. The Pats schedule heading into tonight is really weak, especially with Miami and Buffalo imploding. They have played one good team, Pittsburgh, with a pitifully weak secondary.
Sure, which is why I wouldn't use Carolina as an example for why the NFC has better elite teams than the AFC.
 

PedroKsBambino

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You can really see Roethlisberger working the progressions---and how often is is Wheaton, the third option, who has the mismatch.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Tomlin might want to consider bringing in a trick play, what with needing two yards here and all..
 

EricFeczko

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That schedule was Carolina's remaining schedule to go undefeated.
My bad, responded to the wrong post. My reply was meant towards Byrd.

It wouldn't surprise me if both the patriots and the panthers went undefeated this year -- such an occurrence would tell us more about the state of the NFL than of either team.
 

E5 Yaz

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Tomlin goes for two at 16 - 14 and Pitt makes it. Not your textbook call there.
The Steelers lead the NFL in two-point attempts. Among those who haven't attempted it at all -- Arizona, Carolina and New England
 

Byrdbrain

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I agree with the general premise that Carolina isn't necessarily a great or even a very good team. The league is such a mess it's hard to tell who is any good. They've beaten all the teams they've played and that is all they can do.
 

luckiestman

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I think we gotta think about getting rid of the salary cap. These teams all suck. Great, it's competitive but jesus, adjusting for steroids and hgh can you imagine what the 1993 Cowboys would do to these teams.
 

EricFeczko

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I agree with the general premise that Carolina isn't necessarily a great or even a very good team. The league is such a mess it's hard to tell who is any good. They've beaten all the teams they've played and that is all they can do.
Absolutely. If we assume that the Steelers defeat the Seahawks today, then the league looks absurd. In the AFC, 8 of 16 teams will be .500 or better. In the NFC, 5 of 16 teams will be .500 or better. In the NFC, this includes the packers and falcons, who have both went 1-4 in their last 5 games.

From another perspective, we can examine point differentials (since across the NFL, the point differential should be 0). 14 of the 32 NFL teams have a positive point differential. 9 (of 14 negative) of the 32 NFL teams have -50 or worse point differentials. 5 (of 18 positive) of the 32 NFL teams have 50 or better point differentials.
 

EricFeczko

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I think we gotta think about getting rid of the salary cap. These teams all suck. Great, it's competitive but jesus, adjusting for steroids and hgh can you imagine what the 1993 Cowboys would do to these teams.
How would eliminating the salary cap help? Normally, a salary cap is intended to promote parity.
 

Ralphwiggum

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How would eliminating the salary cap help? Normally, a salary cap is intended to promote parity.
I think what's he's saying is that if we eliminated the salary cap there might be more of a divide between the have's and have not's but we'd at least have a few "good" teams this year, as opposed to a shitload of mediocrity. It isn't a bad point.
 

54thMA

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umm, no . He owns 21 Papa John's in Colorado, which virtually makes him a jr. partner and, btw, they are making him a second fortune: sales have spiked way up since....the legalization of pot in Colorado... up over 25% in many cases....munchies rule.
Think of how many they'd sell if their pizzas didn't taste like floor tile with confetti and ketchup sprinkled on it; just goes to show you how picky people are when it comes to quality food when they're stoned.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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I think what's he's saying is that if we eliminated the salary cap there might be more of a divide between the have's and have not's but we'd at least have a few "good" teams this year, as opposed to a shitload of mediocrity. It isn't a bad point.
From the league's stand point how is a "shitload of mediocrity" worse than having a bunch of 2-11 teams going at it in December?

I don't mind the mediocre teams, and I may be a minor voice here. Keeps me interested in games like Buffalo-KC today, for example.
 

E5 Yaz

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From the league's stand point how is a "shitload of mediocrity" worse than having a bunch of 2-11 teams going at it in December?

I don't mind the mediocre teams, and I may be a minor voice here. Keeps me interested in games like Buffalo-KC today, for example.
I agree with this viewpoint. When we talk about what constitutes a "great" team, there are two distinct contexts in play. A great team in comparison to established standards, and a great team given current conditions. The Panthers (or the Patriots, for that matter) might be the best teams in the league this season ... even if they might not hold up to the better teams of seasons past.
 

luckiestman

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I agree with this viewpoint. When we talk about what constitutes a "great" team, there are two distinct contexts in play. A great team in comparison to established standards, and a great team given current conditions. The Panthers (or the Patriots, for that matter) might be the best teams in the league this season ... even if they might not hold up to the better teams of seasons past.

Yes, we fundamentally disagree but we understand each other.

You are right, I agree that the NFL likes it like this.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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I agree with this viewpoint. When we talk about what constitutes a "great" team, there are two distinct contexts in play. A great team in comparison to established standards, and a great team given current conditions. The Panthers (or the Patriots, for that matter) might be the best teams in the league this season ... even if they might not hold up to the better teams of seasons past.
And this is the year where we had the most number of undefeated teams deepest in to the schedule.

I've heard complaints about the league being too "top heavy" and complaints about being too "mediocre".

I think both are valid points, but it has more to do with some of the bigger stars being out, like Luck, Big Ben, and Manning.

As much as more informed fans may disagree (and we have plenty here), I think more casual at-large fans are more star/narrative-driven when it comes to the interest in the general league play as a whole (minus their own laundry).
 

Ralphwiggum

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From the league's stand point how is a "shitload of mediocrity" worse than having a bunch of 2-11 teams going at it in December?

I don't mind the mediocre teams, and I may be a minor voice here. Keeps me interested in games like Buffalo-KC today, for example.
I don't know, I can see it both ways. Parity is definitely great in terms of keeping the most fans engaged for the longest period of time so on that leve i think it is undoubtedly what's best for most of the league.

But how many threads have we had this year bemoaning the quality of play in the league? Maybe in this day and age injury is enough to ensure some degree of parity from year to year and the salary cap restrictions should at least be relaxed a bit to let the good teams try to build a bit more depth.

i'm honestly not sure what's best. As a Pats fan I love the current systemt because my team has pretty much mastered how to remain competitive year after year and nobody else has. But as a football fan I think the quality of play this year has been pretty shitty, for whatever reason, and there really only appear to be a small handful of teams playing the game at a high level.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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I don't know, I can see it both ways. Parity is definitely great in terms of keeping the most fans engaged for the longest period of time so on that leve i think it is undoubtedly what's best for most of the league.

But how many threads have we had this year bemoaning the quality of play in the league? Maybe in this day and age injury is enough to ensure some degree of parity from year to year and the salary cap restrictions should at least be relaxed a bit to let the good teams try to build a bit more depth.
I think it's more the lack of quality QB play, especially the next generation guys who've got a long, long way to come close to Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben, etc.

Unless the rules change about how secondary is allowed to play, not sure how things change in any meaningful way.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Has anyone ever seen the sneaky 'draw the defense into an offsides' ploy actually work in the NFL?
 

Ralphwiggum

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I think it's more the lack of quality QB play, especially the next generation guys who've got a long, long way to come close to Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben, etc.

Unless the rules change about how secondary is allowed to play, not sure how things change in any meaningful way.
Well I agree with that as well and made the point in another thread. I think allowing defensive backs to going back to playing how they did even 10 years ago would dramatically increase the number of different ways a team can be built and reduce the importance of having an elite QB.

Just think, coming off a Super Bowl in 2003 BB made a franchize alterning move by trading for a running back, and won it again in 2004 based on a power running game and a stifling defense.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Tougher rules for secondary > more passing > more scoring > more ratings > more reliance on star QBs > longer reigns by teams with good QB > more stars > more ratings > more rules to protect star QBs > more confused referees > more investment in secondary and pass rush > tougher for younger QBs > etc. etc. I think.
 

dcmissle

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Phil Simms putting lipstick on Steelers pass coverage. Good Christ.
 

WayBackVazquez

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Nantz is also horrible, but at least he seems to know where he is. Just saying "Sleepless in Seattle" is not funny, Phil. And everyone knows it's a movie reference.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Somebody missed the end of the Super Bowl last year.
No, Super Bowl wasn't a fourth down play trying to draw the first. There are, obviously, many times teams are drawn offsides in other situations.

I see why people didn't get the context in my first post---was watching Pitt-Sea game and was a comment on the specific situation. Teams are, I find, looking for that ploy in that speicfic situation. Did not see GB-Bears game---but guessing those are not 4th down plays either (there are a ton of regular cadence-drive offsides obviously)
 

E5 Yaz

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Nantz is also horrible, but at least he seems to know where he is. Just saying "Sleepless in Seattle" is not funny, Phil. And everyone knows it's a movie reference.
A 22-year-old movie reference, at that. We have members here who weren't born when it hit the theaters
 

WayBackVazquez

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I saw Meg Ryan in the lobby of the Mandarin Oriental in DC a couple of weeks ago. True story appropriate for a game thread, and something Phil Simms might blurt out on national tv.