Mike'd Up: The Mike Francesa Show

Dahabenzapple2

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His rant about the Cowboys defense with guys laying on the ground every 4th quarter was very funny. The bitter Cowboys fans calling in is always great. Now Romo would be the saviour but for those same fans a couple of years ago, he was the problem.

Plus hearing Mike asking that maybe once they could get a turnover was off the hook. What do they have 4 for the year?!?
 

nattysez

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Well, he's now backtracked slightly to "I have a really hard time seeing the Giants winning this game." Now he can say he didn't completely rule out them winning.
 

bankshot1

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He said this afternoon, he'd give the Giants a 20% of winning on Sunday.

Separately, a Cowboy fan was arguing the all-time greatness of Brady/BB and FF argued the 2 SB losses automatically put Brady behind Montana (and ignored that Montana had non-SB losses, and Brady gets no credit for getting to the SB 6 times). As to BB's place as the best HC ever, he maintained that Lombardi will always be the greatest HC, and kept on repeating "what has BB won without Brady?"

Lombardit might be the greatest HC of all time, but someone might ask FF, "What did Lombardi win without Starr/Hornung/Taylor and a defense with 6 HoF guys.?"
 

edmunddantes

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I have never understood that logic Brady vs Montana.

It may have made sense back when Brady didn't have 4 to worry about his losses, but once you are tied for wins the dynamic changes. You have to take into account how many they played in.

Otherwise you are saying it's better for you to either not make the Super Bowl at all (or even the playoffs) then to get in and have a chance at winning but fall short. The worst part is knowing that if he wins another and gets to 5-2, we probably will still have people arguing 4-0 is better somehow.
 

luckiestman

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I have never understood that logic Brady vs Montana.

It may have made sense back when Brady didn't have 4 to worry about his losses, but once you are tied for wins the dynamic changes. You have to take into account how many they played in.

Otherwise you are saying it's better for you to either not make the Super Bowl at all (or even the playoffs) then to get in and have a chance at winning but fall short. The worst part is knowing that if he wins another and gets to 5-2, we probably will still have people arguing 4-0 is better somehow.

I think Mike is trolling a bit with the SB losses thing but Brady and Bill must somehow diminish the others claim as the mythical all time great. If Brady is the best QB ever, that has to affect Bill's rep especially considering his non Brady career. I rank them both very high. I don't know if I can put Bill B over Gibbs though. Three Super Bowls with 3 different QBs impresses me. But I get the argument for Belichick. I personally like Belichick's demeanor and outlook more than Gibbs's but that's actually probably another point in favor of Gibbs.

Now, how much credit does Bill get for the work he did with Parcells? Parcells had the patriots right there in 96 and the Jets should have won in 98.
 

snowmanny

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I have never understood that logic Brady vs Montana.

It may have made sense back when Brady didn't have 4 to worry about his losses, but once you are tied for wins the dynamic changes. You have to take into account how many they played in.

Otherwise you are saying it's better for you to either not make the Super Bowl at all (or even the playoffs) then to get in and have a chance at winning but fall short. The worst part is knowing that if he wins another and gets to 5-2, we probably will still have people arguing 4-0 is better somehow.
It's understandable if someone wants to call Montana the greatest Super Bowl quarterback ever. I don't think Brady ever got pulled from a playoff game for ineffectiveness, though.
 

PBDWake

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I think Mike is trolling a bit with the SB losses thing but Brady and Bill must somehow diminish the others claim as the mythical all time great. If Brady is the best QB ever, that has to affect Bill's rep especially considering his non Brady career. I rank them both very high. I don't know if I can put Bill B over Gibbs though. Three Super Bowls with 3 different QBs impresses me. But I get the argument for Belichick. I personally like Belichick's demeanor and outlook more than Gibbs's but that's actually probably another point in favor of Gibbs.

Now, how much credit does Bill get for the work he did with Parcells? Parcells had the patriots right there in 96 and the Jets should have won in 98.
Why, though? Isn't it at least also equally likely that only the GOAT QB *and* GOAT HC/GM combo is able to maintain this level of success for this long, especially considering that almost all of the competition did so in eras without the salary cap? I'm having trouble finding any comparison for this 15 year run of success so far, let alone anything close in the salary cap era.
 

luckiestman

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Why, though? Isn't it at least also equally likely that only the GOAT QB *and* GOAT HC/GM combo is able to maintain this level of success for this long, especially considering that almost all of the competition did so in eras without the salary cap? I'm having trouble finding any comparison for this 15 year run of success so far, let alone anything close in the salary cap era.

I don't think it is a knowable thing. I like Belichick about as much as any non pats fan can but if I try to play devil's advocate it's easy and the salary cap is not as helpful as you would think because you have the best QB ever playing in a QB driven league on a team friendly deal in weak division. I think Belichick is one of the best ever but I don't think it's clear cut that he's the best.
 

dcmissle

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Reasonable people can differ about GOATs, but it's very difficult to carry the argument that the pre-salary cap era was more difficult to sustain success. For example, the 49ers carried Steve Young as a backup for 4 years after he had already played professionally was was highly prized. That could not happen now. Twenty five years ago, Jack Kent Cooke was paying reserve linemen starter money for o-line depth.
 

snowmanny

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Yes, the GOAT arguments are unresolvable, Just like in basketball there are arguments one could make for Russell, Jordan, Chamberlain,James maybe and even a pretty good one for Abdul-Jabbar. So I prefer to stick with other inarguable points:

B/B is the greatest coach/quarterback combination in NFL history.
Belichick has six rings as a head coach/coordinator. Nobody else has five.
Taking into account both individual and team performance, Brady is the most accomplished quarterback in NFL history.
No reasonable person would trade Belichick's NFL coaching career or Brady's NFL quarterback career for anybody else's in the Super Bowl era.
But sure, if you want to say someone else is "greater" I won't argue.
 

ipol

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Yes, the GOAT arguments are unresolvable, Just like in basketball there are arguments one could make for Russell, Jordan, Chamberlain,James maybe and even a pretty good one for Abdul-Jabbar. So I prefer to stick with other inarguable points:

B/B is the greatest coach/quarterback combination in NFL history.
Belichick has six rings as a head coach/coordinator. Nobody else has five.
Taking into account both individual and team performance, Brady is the most accomplished quarterback in NFL history.
No reasonable person would trade Belichick's NFL coaching career or Brady's NFL quarterback career for anybody else's in the Super Bowl era.
But sure, if you want to say someone else is "greater" I won't argue.
When I tried to make this my sig I was told it was 5 lines too long. Great post, though.
 

Stu Nahan

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Tubby opens by talking about how the only thing standing between complete "immortality" and "total greatness" for Brady and Belichick is the Giants. On what planet have those two guys not already attained those things?
 

bankshot1

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FF takes great pride in his G-Men beating BB twice in the SB. And he has a NY market of Boston haters to feed his red meat.

I think his point is that if the Pats had won those two games, at 6-0, it would be almost impossible to dismiss them as GOAT team., or any other superlative that one could bestow on them. Although I imagine he's do his best to suggest that winning titles now is easier than it used to be.
 

snowmanny

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Yeah, the problem with that is that there is an equally strong argument that the only thing standing between his chosen idol Joe Montana and "immortality" and "total greatness" is also, interestingly, the Giants. And by "equally strong" I mean "quite idiotic." Whatever. A man believes what he wants to believe and disregards the rest.
 

Omar's Wacky Neighbor

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Leaving in a bit to the studio :)
Right, but will he be post Super Bowl levels of apoplectic with rage or rub it in with 'Eli only beat the Pats when it matters' smarmy charm?
Low key, taking lemons and making Dom Perignon: these things happen over the course of a season, the Giants had their chances and they just couldnt seal the deal. But it's only a regular season game, no one expected the Giants to go 16-0, Pats needed a near-impossible FG with no time left to pull it out, but at least they know they can handle the Pats come playoff time....
 

cheekydave

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Someone call the medics. Fat boy saying belichicks management of the clock was BRILLIANT he is going on about how amazing a kick the gost made, who stole Mike and replaced him with Zolak???

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh only explanation is Mike bet heavy on the Pats and won
 

Omar's Wacky Neighbor

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Leaving in a bit to the studio :)
Opening: Conversational voice, not selling the Pats short. Brady did make some questionable decisions to make it a game. Big big FG, fantastic kick. Pats are not the Pats the past two games, due to recent injuries. Questionable clock management by Giants; BB clock management was brilliant, should be required viewing by all NFL coaches. Pats did a number of small things exactly right, praising coaching and prep work. Only two coaches in the NFL make the decisions (and manage the clock the way) BB did leading up to the two minute warning.

Giants always rise to the occasion when they see it's Pats. Tons of BIG plays for both teams. NFL Game of the Year so far.

(Oddly, much of what FF's saying sounds like BB sound bytes, heaping praise on the opponent. Stops just short of "we're on to....")

EDIT: dasm, this was a let down.
 
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bankshot1

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ball-washing BB's clock management, and mentions the injuries but he gets to the Pats Achilles heel on D,

(paraphrase) Eli attacked them, no question they'll get beat regular season...
 

nattysez

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I think this is FF's way of defending Coughlin. He keeps repeating "This was not a clock management game." His position is that the Pats are really good, got a bunch of breaks and played well, but the Giants hung with them.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Opening: Conversational voice, not selling the Pats short. Brady did make some questionable decisions to make it a game. Big big FG, fantastic kick. Pats are not the Pats the past two games, due to recent injuries. Questionable clock management by Giants; BB clock management was brilliant, should be required viewing by all NFL coaches. Pats did a number of small things exactly right, praising coaching and prep work. Only two coaches in the NFL make the decisions (and manage the clock the way) BB did leading up to the two minute warning.

Giants always rise to the occasion when they see it's Pats. Tons of BIG plays for both teams. NFL Game of the Year so far.

(Oddly, much of what FF's saying sounds like BB sound bytes, heaping praise on the opponent. Stops just short of "we're on to....")

EDIT: dasm, this was a let down.
Why is this a "letdown"? I was pleasantly surprised by Fatso's opening remarks. He actually and rightly praised the Pats while admitting they have injuries. What was wrong with what he said? Count me surprised but I have no problems with Fatso today.
 

TheoShmeo

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I think the point is that it's more fun to hear FF in his typical highly irrational, Patriots hating, Belichick hating and Pats success minimizing form.
 

Stu Nahan

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Mike has been fairly even handed in the bit I heard. He did just lapse into criticizing the defense and bringing up how they should have lost the Super Bowl "if the coach didn't lose his mind on the goal line". The fact that he is incapable of giving any credit to Butler, Browner, and the coaching staff of the Pats for that play is mind boggling.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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Dahabenzapple2 said on 9/22:
Fat Fuck already KNOWS that the new JETS coaching staff is excellent.

"They now have a Coach!!"

Wait until it all goes terribly wrong (which it may or may not)

His arrogance knows no bounds

Response from un-named member:

There is plenty to kill him about but this seems like a stretch. Go to the Jet thread and posters are basically saying the same thing about Bowles.

Of course now the Jury is out and let's see if Bowles and the GM have what it takes

I thought he KNEW that Bowles was A COACH!!!???
 
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Philip Jeff Frye

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Mike making an ass out of himself about the Case Keenum concussion situation. He seems to find it inconceivable that the mighty NFL might have screwed this up. Of course, he hasn't bothered to watch the video, but why would you expect him to do that?
 

Vinho Tinto

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While talking about Porzingis, he mentioned that his nickname "Special K" is also used for a drug among the club kids. I love when Tank discovers 20 year old drug terms.
 

Omar's Wacky Neighbor

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Leaving in a bit to the studio :)
While talking about Porzingis, he mentioned that his nickname "Special K" is also used for a drug among the club kids. I love when Tank discovers 20 year old drug terms.
Whoa, there, dont limit it to just drugs. Have you heard him explain the internet lately? Him walking his audience thru, step by step, on how to navigate a simple website is always a hoot.

Sad part is, much of his audience probably does consider him tech savvy.
 

Stu Nahan

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Mike arguing with a caller that Ernie Adams has never been interviewed was something. He told her to send him the tape. His hate of the Pats is so deep that he totally ignored Do Your Job.
 

Vinho Tinto

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Tank with a great anti-NFL rant this morning. He's mentioned a lot of this before (Rule changes for scoring, replay leading to lower quality officiating, the games taking forever), but he was on fire. Had a great line about how nothing they do is for safety. "They'd make them play 5 times a week if they could. The commissioner is still trying to get a 18 game schedule. He wouldn't care if their brains fell out".
 

h8mfy

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He also said he's not interested in the Rutgers football HC job (because he doesn't want to recruit) but would take the call from Texas, which, since there is an established pipeline for recruits is otherwise easy.

Has he even coached his own kids?
 

dcmissle

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So. Coming off a bye. A game that, if won, would have them commanding the division. And they don't begin to play until well into the 4th quarter. I read he was cocky about this game.

So who is this on? Other than the QB with 3 picks?

And don't even think about injuries.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Not to defend Eli, but at least two of the three picks I'd blame the receivers for. The ball in each case was in the receivers' hands and should have been caught. The third interception was a real killer though as it took place in the end zone and obviously killed a good drive.
 

Omar's Wacky Neighbor

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Leaving in a bit to the studio :)
I heard only 30 seconds or so on Monday, as he was going to break (~2:55PM), but it sure sounded like Mike was agreeing that the Pats "no question, won the game", but got totally jobbed by the horrible officiating.

He's been coming over to the dark side more and more every week.
 

Dan Murfman

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Not totally he thought they got hosed on the Chung hold but he thought Gronk absolutely committed OPI. But he thought if they didn't call the hold they most likely won game.
 

Rusty13

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Ugh. They are only promoting a One Night Only gig at Radio City Music Hall. Oh well.
 

nattysez

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They're trying to cover all of sports in about 15 minutes right now and it's awesome.

Edit: And now it's over. :(
 
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