Watching the Jones: Dazed & Confused

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Josh Boyce is a free agent. However the major problem with considering Boyce is that he sucks. However, he must have some knowledge of the offense. If they need a warm body to at least occupy a defender/clear out a zone for a different WR that can actually catch the ball, then Boyce might be near the top of the street free agent list.
 

soxfan121

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I'm not saying I wouldn't try to win the week. I'm lamenting that we pretty much have to.
What are you talking about? The Patriots can snap the ball into the goalposts on every play against Denver and still have the inside track to the #1 seed.
 

Stitch01

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Yeah just realized tiebreak isn't as favorable as I thought (in fact, its unfavorable if they lose to Denver), but given they Pats are still going to be favorites in 80-100% of the remaining games, would still be one up with five to play, the Bengals and Broncos play each other, and Denver is only a fringe top ten team by advanced number they'd still be favorites to be the one seed with a loss next week.
 

MarcSullivaFan

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Hoo-hoo-hoo hoosier land.
Obviousky the injuries on O are hurting, but the D has been incredible. With the way the defense is developing, they don't need the offense to be all world to win. I continue to believe that they are the best team in the AFC by a decent margin. This team is more 2004 than 2007, and I'm totally okay with that.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Duron Carter has seemed interesting to me, though I acknowledge 1) he's on Colts practice squad and they may promote him if they need to and 2) there is no evidence he's a 'plug and play' vs a development candidate.
 

DJnVa

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I'm not saying I wouldn't try to win the week. I'm lamenting that we pretty much have to.
I don't see this as a must win. Even with a loss, we're a game up and both Denver and Cincy, and they still have to play and both teams play a decent enough Steelers team. A win makes it easier, but we'd still be in driver's seat.
 

EL Jeffe

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He Who Shall Not Be Named is speculating that Amendola has a mild PCL sprain based on his video review. Grains of salt and all that, but it's promising when combined with the other tidbits we've been hearing.
 

m0ckduck

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I'm not saying I wouldn't try to win the week. I'm lamenting that we pretty much have to.
.
What are you talking about? The Patriots can snap the ball into the goalposts on every play against Denver and still have the inside track to the #1 seed.
I don't see this as a must win. Even with a loss, we're a game up and both Denver and Cincy, and they still have to play and both teams play a decent enough Steelers team. A win makes it easier, but we'd still be in driver's seat.
Pretty sure he's saying 'I'm lamenting that we pretty much have to try to win'. As in, if the game weren't so significant, we could better afford to rest key parts. Not that we must win the game.
 

DourDoerr

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Even if Amendola and Dobson are out, I think BB goes all out the rest of the schedule to win every game. First, it's his nature and a big clue to his approach on motivation.

Remember a few years ago when the Colts with Manning and Caldwell were flirting with 16-0 - I think they were 14 games in - and they punted on the season. Incredibly deflating for that team. The media coverage then IIRC had the tone of a betrayal of sorts.

BB won't acknowledge 16-0, of course, but he knows his players are thinking it and it makes his job that much easier.
 

edmunddantes

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Plus doing anything else goes against his whole coaching philosophy...

You play the game in front of you (other than the normal preparation any team does for advanced scouting, etc), you don't worry about what happens the week after or bitch about what happened last week (other than coaching up the mistakes). The game the week after next could be completely different based on injuries that happen in this week's game, injuries that happen to the other team, etc so it's not worth planning it out when you have just as important game in front of you right now.

Maybe it's the last game of the season, and there is nothing on the line (seeding, history, etc), then you see things like the Bills game last year.
 

loshjott

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Josh Boyce is a free agent. However the major problem with considering Boyce is that he sucks. However, he must have some knowledge of the offense. If they need a warm body to at least occupy a defender/clear out a zone for a different WR that can actually catch the ball, then Boyce might be near the top of the street free agent list.
Well, he did beat Butler on a slant during Super Bowl practices.
 

dcmissle

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Plus doing anything else goes against his whole coaching philosophy...

You play the game in front of you (other than the normal preparation any team does for advanced scouting, etc), you don't worry about what happens the week after or bitch about what happened last week (other than coaching up the mistakes). The game the week after next could be completely different based on injuries that happen in this week's game, injuries that happen to the other team, etc so it's not worth planning it out when you have just as important game in front of you right now.

Maybe it's the last game of the season, and there is nothing on the line (seeding, history, etc), then you see things like the Bills game last year.
Except when BB deliberately dropped a late season game to secure what he thought would be a more favorable playoff matchup ...

M0ockduck captured what I was trying to say. It is a must win? Of course not. Do you have to make a serious effort? Well yes, at least to the extent of playing your healthy players. Would I play anyone with a questionable hamstring? Fuck no, if you think you need them. (Though Breer is reporting that Danny has an MRI scheduled on his KNEE).
 

bsj

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Any interest in kicking the tires on Donnie Avery? I know they had Pettis in earlier this season for a workout so they are clearly not enamored there.

I think at this point they really need warm bodies, as even the PS has been raided now. Yes I know the system is not easy to pick up, but I really don't have any desire to see Boyce again.
 

bsj

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Josh Boyce is a free agent. However the major problem with considering Boyce is that he sucks. However, he must have some knowledge of the offense. If they need a warm body to at least occupy a defender/clear out a zone for a different WR that can actually catch the ball, then Boyce might be near the top of the street free agent list.

Wasnt there some sort of injury settlement related to his departure? I dont think we could just re-sign him. Maybe I am wrong though.
 

Super Nomario

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Totally unsexy options that have had some preseason and / or practice squad reps:
  • Jonathan Krause - currently on Philly's PS
  • Nathan Palmer
  • Austin Hill
  • Zach D'Orazio
  • Jalen Saunders - on Chicago's PS. He also got suspended for four games and I'm not sure if he's served that on the PS or would have to serve it on an active roster
 

CoolPapaLaSchelle

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If Martin is ready to go, I think we just roll with what we have. He will play slot until Amendola is healthy, Jo Jo is outside, and Harper comes in for 3 WR sets. They may also use Chandler more (he lined up wide a few times in the fourth quarter last night).
 

H78

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Track record plus he couldn't really put any weight on it.
Not to mention, he's useless anyways.

It feels like some folks here are waiting for the Dobson "breakout" game. It's not going to happen. He gets almost NO separation on the field; he's just not a quality NFL receiver and there's almost no chance he's on the team next year.
 

bluefenderstrat

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I think Dobson gets that "Bill must be keeping him around for a reason" benefit of the doubt, but yeah, it would appear his opportunity is coming to an end.
 

lexrageorge

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Dobson has been kept around because he provided depth, and, believe it or not, he was actually better than the remaining flotsam and jetsam holding up that particular part of the receiving corps. He showed something his rookie year, was hurt all last year, and was dirt cheap. So there were good reasons for Belichick's keeping him on the roster.

I agree that those reasons no longer apply, and that he'll likely be gone come March.
 

Super Nomario

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Not to mention, he's useless anyways.

It feels like some folks here are waiting for the Dobson "breakout" game. It's not going to happen. He gets almost NO separation on the field; he's just not a quality NFL receiver and there's almost no chance he's on the team next year.
The interesting thing is that Dobson was playing over LaFell last night.

Nathan Jahnke ‏@PFF_NateJahnke 14h14 hours ago
Danny Amendola played in 92% of the Patriots offensive snaps before he got hurt. Aaron Dobson played in 86% before he got hurt.

Nathan Jahnke ‏@PFF_NateJahnke 14h14 hours ago
Brandon LaFell played in 5 of the first 26 Patriots offensive snaps. Then Dobson got hurt, and LaFell played in 43 of the last 43.

I don't really know what that means, if it was matchup-based or a positive sign for Dobson or more of a negative for LaFell. FWIW, I think Dobson is getting much better separation this year (which may be why they used him vs man-heavy Buffalo); his problem is his hands. Even on his catch last night he didn't grab it cleanly.
 

Koufax

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That catch last night looked awfully difficult to me. I thought it was a show of really good hands.
 

GeorgeCostanza

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That catch last night looked awfully difficult to me. I thought it was a show of really good hands.
As did I. Was a nice catch. But of course he hurt his foot because he's Aaron Dobson and that's what he does.

Interesting that he seemed to be ahead of JoJo on the depth chart. Is he dinged up at all?

Anyone notice Brady in his presser called him "Dobson"? All his other targets are referred too much more affectionately. Danny, Jules, Gronk, Jo Jo...and then just Dobson.
 

dcmissle

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I think Dobson gets that "Bill must be keeping him around for a reason" benefit of the doubt, but yeah, it would appear his opportunity is coming to an end.
I recall BB seemingly going out of his way recently to say Dobson was having a good year.

Maybe he is -- was -- reluctant to part ways with Dobson because of potential. The consensus of BBTL before the end of last year was that Amendola was dead man walking.

But there is a difference, of course. Amendola has actually done something in the League -- he just was seemingly always hurt. Dobson has really not accomplished very much.
 

nothumb

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The interesting thing is that Dobson was playing over LaFell last night.

Nathan Jahnke ‏@PFF_NateJahnke 14h14 hours ago
Danny Amendola played in 92% of the Patriots offensive snaps before he got hurt. Aaron Dobson played in 86% before he got hurt.

Nathan Jahnke ‏@PFF_NateJahnke 14h14 hours ago
Brandon LaFell played in 5 of the first 26 Patriots offensive snaps. Then Dobson got hurt, and LaFell played in 43 of the last 43.

I don't really know what that means, if it was matchup-based or a positive sign for Dobson or more of a negative for LaFell. FWIW, I think Dobson is getting much better separation this year (which may be why they used him vs man-heavy Buffalo); his problem is his hands. Even on his catch last night he didn't grab it cleanly.
I've been working on this hypothesis that LaFell is really not a great zone-beater receiver and his main strength is winning on the outside against man. Which is important against, say, Denver, but not when BUF is showing all kinds of exotic zone pressures and different looks.

He also seems to make a lot of his good plays after run action and the Pats were not selling that much last night.
 

Jimbodandy

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Dobson was filling Amendola's role, with Amendola filling Edelman's. LaFell was playing LaFell. Apparently the staff would rather use Dobson on those quick outs and other very short passes, while LaFell runs longer routes. I wouldn't equate snap count with confidence.
 

pokey_reese

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Dobson was filling Amendola's role, with Amendola filling Edelman's. LaFell was playing LaFell. Apparently the staff would rather use Dobson on those quick outs and other very short passes, while LaFell runs longer routes. I wouldn't equate snap count with confidence.
This. As much as we like to think that any WR can play any WR spot, ultimately each one has certain responsibilities and routes to run, and they practice those routes, not all of them. In addition to knowing 'their' part of the playbook, they also have to get used to working with Brady on each route, where he is going to place the ball, which way to turn, how much to come back, etc.. WR is a high level designation, but they aren't completely fungible. We have lots of programmers at work, but some do JS, some do node, some are .NET guys, etc., even if they are all "developers."
 

joe dokes

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That catch last night looked awfully difficult to me. I thought it was a show of really good hands.
I thought it was a very tough catch. But I also thought that he didn't catch it cleanly. I also thought that he broke his hip when he landed, but I am not DRS.
 

dcmissle

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So this thread has informed me that the practice squad is tapped out, and there are not realistic ads out there, whether on someone else's roster or on the street.

I'm really pleased the defense has played so well, and the 2010 Packers are always there for inspiration, though I recall their ridiculous injury rate being spread much more evenly on both sides of the ball and among position groups.

I imagine the perfect season stuff is going out the window when a bye is secured if it does not happen before them. By sheer body count at this particular position.
 

Super Nomario

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Dobson was filling Amendola's role, with Amendola filling Edelman's. LaFell was playing LaFell. Apparently the staff would rather use Dobson on those quick outs and other very short passes, while LaFell runs longer routes. I wouldn't equate snap count with confidence.
I'll have to go back and check the tape, but I think you're wrong on this. If LaFell was playing his typical role, that role was much smaller than it had been in previous weeks, until Dobson went out.
 

DJnVa

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Even with the injuries on offense, the defense is #1 in football by points allowed.

How many points will teams like Eagles, Titans, Texans, Dolphins and Jets be able to put up on them?
 

PaulinMyrBch

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Speaking on a conference call Tuesday afternoon, Bill Belichick had no updates to offer.

“I mean, we’re less than 24 hours from the game. Give everything a chance to try and sort it out and then we will list them on the practice report based on where they are on Wednesday,” Belichick said. “I know everyone wants instant diagnosis, but it doesn’t always work that way.”
Have to feel like this is good news. If he's talking about the practice report then he's not talking about season ending IR. Which is unlikely for either, but with BB talking about the Wednesday report, prepare yourself for "Limited Participation - Leg" for Dola and "Limited Participation - Foot" for Dobson. No news is good news on a day we don't practice.
 

staz

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Have to feel like this is good news. If he's talking about the practice report then he's not talking about season ending IR. Which is unlikely for either, but with BB talking about the Wednesday report, prepare yourself for "Limited Participation - Leg" for Dola and "Limited Participation - Foot" for Dobson. No news is good news on a day we don't practice.
Or the team's got 2 bad medical reports in one hand and the phone numbers of 12 agents in the other - and BB doesn't want to torpedo the negotiations.
 

RedOctober3829

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It's okay news, and not-so-okay news, on the Patriots' two wide receivers who were injured Monday night against the Bills.

Danny Amendola has a knee sprain that will limit him throughout the week. His availability for the game Sunday in Denver will be determined by how he responds to treatment and an increase in work load as the week progresses. He's not expected to miss an extended period of time.

As for Aaron Dobson, the prognosis is not final but he is expected to miss at least the Denver game, and perhaps more than that. As Jeff Howe of the Boston Herald reported, X-rays of Dobson's foot showed no broken bones, but the extent of any ligament damage will dictate how long he'll be down.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/danny-amendola-has-knee-sprain-not-expected-to-miss-much-time-for-new-england-patriots

Sounds like a Grade 1 MCL sprain as DRS indicated.
 

Koufax

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If Amendola is going to miss 0 - 1 games, that's a big improvement over what we all seemed to think was going to happen. As for Dobson, he's more expendable, and even he may be back soon.
 

dynomite

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I imagine the perfect season stuff is going out the window when a bye is secured if it does not happen before them. By sheer body count at this particular position.
I don't think that's necessarily true.

Belichick knows and respects the history of the NFL more than perhaps anyone else in the world. If his team has a chance to go 16-0 I would be surprised if he plays Jimmy G in Week 17.

Pats had already clinched the #1 seed before Week 17 last year and Brady still played significant snaps. That said, a lot of other players did sit, so it wouldn't surprise me if he limited snaps for banged up guys if it comes to that.
 

RedOctober3829

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I don't think that's necessarily true.

Belichick knows and respects the history of the NFL more than perhaps anyone else in the world. If his team has a chance to go 16-0 I would be surprised if he plays Jimmy G in Week 17.

Pats had already clinched the #1 seed before Week 17 last year and Brady still played significant snaps. That said, a lot of other players did sit, so it wouldn't surprise me if he limited snaps for banged up guys if it comes to that.
He was also playing behind an OL that wasn't getting him killed every week. I'd think Bill would do the right thing and limit his snaps if they clinch everything early.
 

Stitch01

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That's a really good diagnosis for Dobson IMO. Figured it was at best a bad sprain that probably needed an IR to free the roster spot.

I imagine the perfect season stuff is going out the window when a bye is secured if it does not happen before them. By sheer body count at this particular position.

Not sure in what way you mean. If you mean on the margin they don't push injured guys and rotate personnel a lot, for sure, but I doubt they DNP-CD healthy players before week 17 (where they'll play a Dolphins team long since done for the season) and they're going to be favored in every game on the schedule barring the calamities that shall not be named.
 

54thMA

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Curran just reported that it's a sprained knee, was confirmed just now on the Felger and Mazz show.

Status uncertain for Sunday night.

Dodged that bullet.......................

N/M, just noticed the report upthread, my bad.
 

Jettisoned

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Or the team's got 2 bad medical reports in one hand and the phone numbers of 12 agents in the other - and BB doesn't want to torpedo the negotiations.
We're talking about fringe professional athletes who are desperate for jobs. There's no way any of them don't jump at the chance to play for anybody, even at the league minimum.
 

soxfan121

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That's a really good diagnosis for Dobson IMO. Figured it was at best a bad sprain that probably needed an IR to free the roster spot.
They still need a roster spot or two, because there's no way they go into a game with just two healthy WR.

And after last night, it won't be Tavon Wilson getting the axe. ;-)
 

Super Nomario

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They still need a roster spot or two, because there's no way they go into a game with just two healthy WR.

And after last night, it won't be Tavon Wilson getting the axe. ;-)
We don't know how close Keshawn Martin is to returning; that would give them three if he can go. He hasn't missed a practice but has been limited / questionable with a hamstring since Week 7. Three still seems light. Slater might get some extra WR reps in practice this week.