Kristaps Porzingis to Celtics!!!!!

mostman said:

White, Brown
Tatum, Zinger
TL

Trying to score on this 5 will be hell.

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Health willing.

Smart has definite value. He will be missed in some real ways. But as he got older, smart's anticipatory skills started to diminish. Maybe it's the way the game is called. Maybe it was smart's rep as a flopper, fair or otherwise.

He will be missed. His run after the White trade was great, but he could not be counted on to make the right play on offense late in games, and I thought he started being late on charges in big spots that led to free throws. It's always a bang bang situation, but it felt like smart wasn't there most of the time, and hopes his rep would work on his favor. It didn't and might have worked against him. He played incredibly hard. I know I'll miss him. That's all I'll say. Everyone has their own feelings on him. And everyone is correct. He was a Rorschach test, but there was never a correct answer-- just the right situation. And it never quite happened for him.

That group assembled there is impressive. And it feels like something else substantial is in the works. CP makes some real sense if the money does, obviously.

mostman said:

White, Brown
Tatum, Zinger
TL

Trying to score on this 5 will be hell.

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Agreed, but TL can’t really be in the crunch-time rotation because he can’t shoot threes or free-throws.

The crunch-time rotation (pending further moves) is going to be KP at the “5,” Tatum, Brown, Brogdon, and White. Which is basically what they had this year except KP moves into Horford’s spot which is obviously a massive upgrade.

The big concern if they don’t trade Brogdon is the injury risk that comes with both Brogdon and KP. If either of those players miss significant playoff time, the roster becomes very thin because you’re downgrading from KP to Horford (or possibly Grant) and/or from Brogdon to Pritchard.

lovegtm said:

Any significant Steph missed time, and that pick gets juicy in a hurry. They already had a lot of regular season issues this year, and no one there is getting younger.

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If they didn't have Jordan Poole, I'd agree. He (Poole) has only one useful role on that team: To provide a reasonable facsimile of Curry, when Steph is inactive. It won't be a great pick, if we're lucky it will be in the teens.

The trio of Tatum, Brown, and Smart had plenty of opportunity and ammunition to win it all, and couldn’t. I’m not surprised to see Smart traded. If Boston has an informal deal to make a bought out Chris Paul their starting PG for a title run, I really like this deal (even though I despise CP3).

Despite their talk about being “like brothers and brothers fight,” Brown now has his friend Brogdon as a more prominent PG. The Jays need to play with good three point shooters, and swapping out Smart for KP, while giving Brogdon more closing time prominence, and possibly elevating Hauser one spot in the rotation certainly does that.

I have a ton of admiration for Smart off the court and on, but won’t miss his offense, which has been frustrating, to say the least. I am concerned with the loss of his toughness and passion on a team that has a lot of players with non-fiery personalities. It looks like this team’s personality will be more Tatumesque in the future, even more so if they move on from Grant Williams.

slamminsammya said:

I am just shocked we got Porizingis AND two firsts for Smart and flotsam. That is a pretty great deal, no? Golden State could be pretty trashy after this year.

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Just need to hunt Baynes down to go roll Curry's leg

OurF'ingCity said:

Agreed, but TL can’t really be in the crunch-time rotation because he can’t shoot threes or free-throws.

The crunch-time rotation (pending further moves) is going to be KP at the “5,” Tatum, Brown, Brogdon, and White. Which is basically what they had this year except KP moves into Horford’s spot which is obviously a massive upgrade.

The big concern if they don’t trade Brogdon is the injury risk that comes with both Brogdon and KP. If either of those players miss significant playoff time, the roster becomes very thin because you’re downgrading from KP to Horford (or possibly Grant) and/or from Brogdon to Pritchard.

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I think the closing 5 will be situational with 2 of Horford/Brogdon/White (assuming Brogdon is still here).

I also think the injury concern difference is overblown. Porzingis and Brogdon have missed an identical 21 more games than Smart over the last 3 years combined.
Brogdon actually played more games than Smart in 2 of those 3. Both played more than Smart last year.
Porzingis has probably the most concerns, but is also the youngest.

Please for the love of god stop bringing up Chris Paul.

He is cooked and washed and washed and cooked, on top of being a low key dirty player who cannot stay healthy. Brad can (and will) do better.

From the Athletic

https://theathletic.com/4629520/2023/06/22/nba-trade-grades-smart-porzingis-celtics-wizards-grizzlies/

Boston Celtics acquire Kristaps Porzingis, 25th pick in 2023 and a 2024 first-round pick
What are the Celtics’ plans for the future of Porziņģis? That was my initial thought when it came to seeing this trade news. Is this a short-term play, or will we see an extension offered that may lower his salary after this season but gives him long-term security? The fit for Porziņģis in the frontcourt has a lot of potential, but we often feel that way with Porziņģis. He’s extremely tall, has a great wingspan, he’s pretty nimble, and he’s exceptionally skilled for a 7-foot-3 man.

Look at his numbers after leaving Dallas. In 82 games with the Wizards, Porzingis averaged 22.9 points, 8.5 rebounds, 2.7 assists and 1.5 blocks with 49.3/38.2/85.5 shooting splits. That’s good for 62.2 percent true shooting. That’s incredibly efficient. He’s become a pretty solid rebounder, he can rim protect some, and he has a great outside shot. Fitting that into what the Celtics do isn’t hard. It means Al Horford (37 years old) can take a step back in the rotation if needed, or he can play alongside Porziņģis when Robert Williams III isn’t available. They could also bring Porziņģis off the bench as a super sixth man next to Brogdon.

They can run the offense through him in the second unit, or he can play third fiddle to Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown as an expert pick-and-pop option. He can camp in the corner and spread the floor. And defensively, he can be a nice rim-protecting presence as long as he’s able to take the physical toll of being in a pretty tough and active defensive system.

The Celtics have options, as long as Porziņģis is healthy, and that’s the part that could worry you. Since the ACL injury that cost him well over 100 games from 2017 to 2019, Porziņģis has missed 95 games in four seasons. That’s a lot of missed time. On a one-year rental, even at $36 million, it’s a risk you can take with the depth the Celtics have.

The fact that they upgraded 10 spots in this draft and got a first-round pick in next year’s draft is pretty ridiculous.

Grade: A

luckiestman said:

I don’t know about these draft picks. I hope they work out but 25 and Warriors pick? I’m not expecting much. Attached to some players maybe we get something good.

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The Warriors are a Steph injury away from giving the Celtics a lottery pick. With Prosper now getting mocked in the 19-24 range I'm hoping that #25 and Brogdon are being packaged for something better. I just have this terrible (and completely irrational) premonition that it's going to be Kevin Porter Jr..

nighthob said:

The Warriors are a Steph injury away from giving the Celtics a lottery pick. With Prosper now getting mocked in the 19-24 range I'm hoping that #25 and Brogdon are being packaged for something better. I just have this terrible (and completely irrational) premonition that it's going to be Kevin Porter Jr..

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After the draft you tell me if we got someone good. I don’t like college hoops that much so know less than nothing about it.

benhogan said:

Just need to hunt Baynes down to go roll Curry's leg

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Smart had four games now to get it done.

TripleOT said:

Smart had four games now to get it done.

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GSW/Curry health is a pretty nice lottery ticket, I wouldn't be in a rush to deal it.

Washington did better by getting Jones, Muscala & #35 instead of #30 & the Clippers crap BUT they really should of held out for one of Memphis' picks. Boston walking away with two Firsts is a complete heist

This is a ton of value for Smart but there is some risk here: most notably injury risk. Keeping Brogdon and trading Marcus while acquiring Porzingis equals adding one more oft-injured player on a team that already had plenty. That said, this is probably a risk you have to take. With luck, this could push the Cs over the top.

- At its simplest, a team of Smart, White, JB, JT, and Horford loses in a hypothetical pickup game against White, JB, JT, KP and Horford. So, to get Porizingis AND real draft equity for Smart and salary filler is a win. The injury history is very scary, but I'd say its a toss up who plays more games over the next 4 seasons between Smart and Porzingis, given their respective ages and playing styles.

- The best version of this trade is the one where KP's post game unlocks the C's late-game playoff offense and brings home a title. It's seemed very clear over the past two seasons that they need an option to generate offense closer to the basket, from someone taller, against the kind of intense defensive pressure that quality opponents can apply late in playoff games.

- re: losing Smart's intangibles, it wouldn't surprise me if the absence of "toughness" completely submarined the C's season this year, or if it all turned out to a mirage and they're better off without him. We just don't know. I do think there's a world where the C's wanted to move on from Marcus anyway and Mazzulla's apparent sense of obligation to play him late in games.

- it's an odd roster at the moment with several redundancies and overlapping skill sets and— as others have said— short one ball-handler. Dealing Brogdan and draft equity makes sense, but I wonder if dealing RWIII could be on the table. The C's could look at it as upgrading from RWIII to a more versatile, equally-fragile player in KP.

benhogan said:

GSW/Curry health is a pretty nice lottery ticket, I wouldn't be in a rush to deal it.

Washington did better by getting Jones, Muscala & #35 instead of #30 & the Clippers crap BUT they really should of held out for one of Memphis' picks. Boston walking away with two Firsts is a complete heist

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Agree it's a heist, but the Wizards had little leverage here. If the deal didn't get done, KP walks for nothing, or a light S&T return.

The Wizards' (sensible) plan seems to be to offload salary, and be the salary/talent dump when everyone has to get onsides in 2024. m

Is there a chance Boston and KP rip up the one year option and sign him to a long term deal? The value proposition of trading Smart for KP shifts quite a bit if it ends up just being a one year deal for an injury prone big man, but with Jaylen's (potential) extension kicking in next summer, and Tatum's 12 months later, it wouldn't shock me if ownership is content to let him go after one year.

Euclis20 said:

Is there a chance Boston and KP rip up the one year option and sign him to a long term deal? The value proposition of trading Smart for KP shifts quite a bit if it ends up just being a one year deal for an injury prone big man, but with Jaylen's (potential) extension kicking in next summer, and Tatum's 12 months later, it wouldn't shock me if ownership is content to let him go after one year.

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They're not allowed to do that, but they are allowed to sign him to a 2/77 extension on July 6.

I'd be surprised if KP turns that down, given that he was ok with 1 year at 36M, so it's probably a matter of finding the number that works for both parties.

If the Celtics need to clear salary next year, it's much better to do it from a spot of controlling 2 years of KP to deal somewhere, rather than letting him walk. It also gives a lot of options in terms of splitting JB into some good role players in summer 2024, if they go that route.

mostman said:

White, Brown
Tatum, Zinger
TL

Trying to score on this 5 will be hell.

Click to expand...

I doubt TL is ever going to play starter minutes. He was not even close to what we would have hoped in the playoffs. He was clearly hobbled and not the shot blocker he was in the past. My hope is he and KP split time enough both stay healthy.

timelysarcasm said:

Please for the love of god stop bringing up Chris Paul.

He is cooked and washed and washed and cooked, on top of being a low key dirty player who cannot stay healthy. Brad can (and will) do better.

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Yes yes yes.

This ducking sucks.
I’d much rather have traded Brogdon than Smart

Smart is the glue on defense and hustle

Reading about this deal here and elsewhere, it seems like half the Internet thinks it's "Brogdan" for some reason.

I still have my Mark McGuire rookie card.

Love the trade. White's role solidified as our #1 guard was needed.

It has been pretty clear from year 2 of the JT era that point Tatum is our future.

Ale Xander said:

This ducking sucks.
I’d much rather have traded Brogdon than Smart

Smart is the glue on defense and hustle

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Smart for KP is a win already (probably a significant one, since KP is more valuable on both ends), and getting 2 1sts in addition makes it a heist. Only doable because KP presumably wanted to play in Boston and was ok to opt in.

And none of this precludes trading Brogdon at all.

Fuck this shit.

I too would rather have traded Brogdan--though getting the picks makes me think a lot harder about it.

The injury risk makes me nuts though. We now have three rotation guys with rotten injury histories, and last year arguably all three were at the high end of their health potential.

I feel like this is the type of trade that if the Lakers made I would be pissed off that they got Porzingis and more ammo for future moves. Looks like a heist to me.

The more I think about this, the more I like the addition by subtraction of not having to manage Smart's ego about his offensive role and playing time as he gets older.

This team needed some kind of identity rework, particularly offensively. Promoting White to unambiguous starter and paving the way for Point Tatum seem like great steps in that direction.

ifmanis5 said:

This has escalated.
Simmons' current podcast talks about how conservative Brad is and how he doesn't take chances. Tonight changes everything.

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I don't get this - Ainge was often reluctant to make a deal, Brad has made a whole bunch of deals. I guess this is the first one involving a core player.

OurF'ingCity said:

I just hope they cleared this or at least discussed with Tatum/Brown. I think they are both smart enough (no pun intended) to get that basketball is a business but they’ve been teammates with Smart literally their entire careers.

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They understand this is a business. Assuming the communication is good and Brown is extended, I don't think there will be an issue here.

BigSoxFan said:

A propos of nothing but Memphis is one of the few teams where I can visualize Smart playing. Must be the Tony Allen effect or something. Too bad for Marcus he only gets to come back to Boston once / year. That’ll be interesting for sure.

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I think Smart is a great fit it Memphis.

I'm watching Porzingis highlights from last year now...I knew his efficiency numbers, and that it's hard to put up that kind of volume+efficiency on a bad team, but I had forgotten how skilled he is off the dribble. This feels like a homerun to me, in terms of what the Celtics need.

They now have the ability to generate interesting mismatches when Tatum or Brown play off Porzingis, which was always missing last year, given that Brown/Tatum are similar-sized wings.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bt38ryYTpw

Ale Xander said:

Smart is the glue on defense and hustle

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Given how much their defense fell off and how little effort they consistently show, this is some damming praise.

Wow they ran curl screen action FOR Porzingis. Never thought I’d see the day when a 7’3” guy is coming off screens for jump shots.

lovegtm said:

Maybe the Celtics *want* more Point Tatum?

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They should, the more he has the ball the better, and him growing into that role will be a step forward for the team I think.

Ed Hillel said:

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Marcus needed to go, the culture needs to change and the team needs to assimilate to Tatum. Marcus already fell pretty significantly last year and is only going to get worse. They’ll need another competent PG now, but I’m confident they’ll find one.

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I don’t think they make this deal if they don’t already have a handshake agreement, whether it’s with a player to sign or another team to trade with. This is a solid move on its own but there are other shoes to drop that can make this make even more sense in retrospect.

Cellar-Door said:

Umm... because they got back Kristaps Porzingis, who is a top defender and rim protector? And Smart's defense is in steep decline.
You don't need every player on the roster to be an elite defender, you can have a below average one, or two even!

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Still feeling the effects of the playoffs but it’s hard not to feel completely ambivalent about the defensive impact of losing Marcus when we just watched their defense completely fall apart.

Not to mention losing games with him taking like 5 of the last 8 shots.

But yeah, a good lesson from Miami and plenty of other successful teams is you don’t need 5 DPOY out there, especially if you have strong interior defenders.

shawnrbu said:

Heart and Soul gone. Feels like a very rushed trade. Brad on tilt?

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DeadlySplitter said:

The hyperbole / outcry about Smart now with "heart and soul of the team ripped out" has me chuckling.

They have a full regular season to make a new team identity.

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Right, what is heart and soul worth if the team’s well-earned reputation is that they choke in big moments, slow down the offense to their detriment, lose to inferior opponents constantly?

I think they already know who their replacement guard will be. Hope it’s some combo of someone quicker, better shooter, better decision maker.

I think they had this smart deal up their sleeve this whole time. This was supposed to be 2 separate deal but when brogdon for KP broke down they had to fold Memphis into this.

Whatever else Marcus was (and he was a lot), he wasn't a top 25 player in the NBA. At least Porzingis is (or is very close). If "top end talent" wins in the NBA, the Celtics now have a top 5 guy, a top 20 guy, and then another guy that's top 25 or at worst top 30. Not tooooo many teams can match that.

BaseballJones said:

Whatever else Marcus was (and he was a lot), he wasn't a top 25 player in the NBA. At least Porzingis is (or is very close). If "top end talent" wins in the NBA, the Celtics now have a top 5 guy, a top 20 guy, and then another guy that's top 25 or at worst top 30. Not tooooo many teams can match that.

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I know there is the contract element but on talent alone getting two firsts alongside KP feels pretty wild, especially with an outside chance that one becomes surprisingly good with the right mix of injury and age decline.

Also, I think people kind of understate the value of Tatum. When he is on the floor, it hasn’t really mattered who else is. When he is off the floor, it hasn’t really mattered who the 5 are, including JB. Which is to say, as talented as the team is, there is a lot of value and still room for improving the roster beyond Tatum because they still haven’t really cracked the minutes with him off the floor. And as for the Tatum On minutes, anything you can do to improve the shooting and defense around him is great.

In case it hasn’t been mentioned, protections on 2024 pick:

2024: Top 4
2025: Top 1
2026: Unprotected

Less throwaway version of this post, I get it’s a good basketball move, but it’s hard not to be a little sad Marcus won’t win here. Was Porzingis’s name ever cleared on his accusation? On a rooting for the player level, hurts to swap a fan favorite for that kind of baggage, but winning cures all I guess.

GreyisGone said:

Given how much their defense fell off and how little effort they consistently show, this is some damming praise.

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If your team got relentlessly back cut by Duncan F'n Robinson and torched by Caleb Martin all the way to Cancun then the glue had solidified in the bottle.

The above poster comparing this to BB moving on from a player a year early rather than a year late is spot on. I'll miss the guy for sure. Awesome dude who possibly gave up his ability to have future children for the C's, but I can't imagine going into next year's playoffs with the same squad that has so famously struggled close and late. D White has ascended and he's earned his shot and I kinda doubt Mazzulla was gonna hand him the keys with Marcus around.

That said, I like this for Memphis too. Major upgrade on Brooks and if Marcus is able to return to form he'll be playing alongside JJ and that could be formidable defensive pairing.

Jed Zeppelin said:

Still feeling the effects of the playoffs but it’s hard not to feel completely ambivalent about the defensive impact of losing Marcus when we just watched their defense completely fall apart.

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Marcus was a high effort defender but he was still a guard, albeit a switchable one. Very hard to make a superlative impact and even a little decline takes a lot of that shine off. He’s still a good player, but this is undoubtably a good move.

Ale Xander said:

Smart is the glue on defense and hustle

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I understand the emotional effect of losing Smart (this hurts more than losing Rondo to me for some reason)
BUT the Celtics have a better version of that guy now...Derrick White.

White was that glue & hustle guy all 102 games last season culminating in his crafty put-back in G6. I hate to say it but this is addition by subtraction in some ways, playing Marcus closing minutes all season over White was sub-optimal.

If anybody had suggested Brad could get 2 Firsts for Marcus Smart last week they would have been laughed at around here, especially after the non-haul from Bradley Beal.
Not only that but the C's got the most talented player in Porzingas (a cusp TOP25 player),
got rid of Gallinari's extension in the process, & avoided Smart's declining years, which could have begun last season.

There is a lot Brad can do now with these 2 extra Firsts + all of Boston Firsts (except '28 swap) between now and next trade deadline.

What a fantastic trade for Memphis.

Getting Smart for a tiny bench PG and two non premium firsts is a heist.

Hate it for the Celtics obviously

At least Celtics fans will finally appreciate Smart this year after he’s gone.

Devastated

BaseballJones said:

Whatever else Marcus was (and he was a lot), he wasn't a top 25 player in the NBA. At least Porzingis is (or is very close). If "top end talent" wins in the NBA, the Celtics now have a top 5 guy, a top 20 guy, and then another guy that's top 25 or at worst top 30. Not tooooo many teams can match that.

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He can barely stay on the court. Am I living in the same reality as you guys?

benhogan said:

I understand the emotional effect of losing Smart (this hurts more than losing Rondo to me for some reason)
BUT the Celtics have a better version of that guy now...Derrick White.

White was that glue & hustle guy all 102 games last season culminating in his crafty put-back in G6. I hate to say it but this is addition by subtraction in some ways, playing Marcus closing minutes all season over White was sub-optimal.

If anybody had suggested Brad could get 2 Firsts for Marcus Smart last week they would have been laughed at around here, especially after the non-haul from Bradley Beal.
Not only that but the C's got the most talented player in Porzingas (a cusp TOP25 player),
got rid of Gallinari's extension in the process, & avoided Smart's declining years, which could have begun last season.

There is a lot Brad can do now with these 2 extra Firsts + all of Boston Firsts (except '28 swap) between now and next trade deadline.

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Also note that Porzingis is a very rich man's version of Gallo on offense: he can shoot 3s and playmake/score in the post at a very high level. That element was missing last year, and that's before you even get into the defensive side of the ball....

mikeford said:

He can barely stay on the court. Am I living in the same reality as you guys?

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No, you are not. I can confirm, with numbers, that you are not living in the same reality as us:

Games played, 2019-2023
Kristaps Porzingis: 216
Marcus Smart: 240

2022-23
KP: 65
MS: 61

2021-22
KP: 51
MS: 71

2020-21
KP: 43
MS: 48

2019-20
KP: 57
MS: 60

mcpickl said:

What a fantastic trade for Memphis.

Getting Smart for a tiny bench PG and two non premium firsts is a heist.

Hate it for the Celtics obviously

At least Celtics fans will finally appreciate Smart this year after he’s gone.

Devastated

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I think Celtics fans appreciate him plenty, if anything my impression is we hold him in higher esteem than non-Celtics fans.

benhogan said:

I understand the emotional effect of losing Smart (this hurts more than losing Rondo to me for some reason)
BUT the Celtics have a better version of that guy now...Derrick White.

White was that glue & hustle guy all 102 games last season culminating in his crafty put-back in G6. I hate to say it but this is addition by subtraction in some ways, playing Marcus closing minutes all season over White was sub-optimal.

If anybody had suggested Brad could get 2 Firsts for Marcus Smart last week they would have been laughed at around here, especially after the non-haul from Bradley Beal.
Not only that but the C's got the most talented player in Porzingas (a cusp TOP25 player),
got rid of Gallinari's extension in the process, & avoided Smart's declining years, which could have begun last season.

There is a lot Brad can do now with these 2 extra Firsts + all of Boston Firsts (except '28 swap) between now and next trade deadline.

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Yes, as much as I loved watching Marcus - what made him a joy to watch will likely also lead to an early decline. He seemed to be a step slow last year already.

lovegtm said:

Or if Memphis came in late and upped the offer for Smart. I think Brad would have done this Memphis deal all day if it were the first one on the table.

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Yeah, I have the same feeling. I'll miss Marcus for his hustle, attitude and being all in as a Celtic. And I feel bad for him, knowing how he probably feels about this trade. But viewed dispassionately, this looks like a home run move for the Celtics, as long as Porzingis isn't too brittle.

Marcus Smart's defense had definitely taken a noticeable dip last year. On offense, it was hard watching him stroll up the court with the ball, instead of moving with urgency. He made some good passes, but then there were plenty of lazy ones too. He never felt like a natural point guard. He's 29 (Porzingis surprisingly is 27; it feels like he's been around longer than that).

My main concern is they now have three big men now with questionable durability ... if they can juggle that properly, hopefully they're all healthy come playoff time. If not ... yikes.

\

CaptainLaddie said:

oh god now i have to explain to my 3.5 year old daughter about "cap space" and "the CBA", she has no idea what's happening in an NBA game but she LOVES marcus smart's green hair

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Yes, I just had to explain why my 5 yo's favorite player got traded. She took it well, especially when I told her new guy's known as The Unicorn.

ehaz said:

He shot nearly 45% from 3 throughout the playoffs until he tore his elbow. Maybe he should've called his own number more often.

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In tbb345’s world Brogdon can’t do anything right and has a complete blind spot for Smart or at least close to it.. every post in the playoffs was criticizing any mistake Brogdon made.. and by mistake any missed shot or turnover or holding the ball too long or…

Imbricus said:

Yeah, I have the same feeling. I'll miss Marcus for his hustle, attitude and being all in as a Celtic. And I feel bad for him, knowing how he probably feels about this trade. But viewed dispassionately, this looks like a home run move for the Celtics, as long as Porzingis isn't too brittle.

Marcus Smart's defense had definitely taken a noticeable dip last year. On offense, it was hard watching him stroll up the court with the ball, instead of moving with urgency. He made some good passes, but then there were plenty of lazy ones too. He never felt like a natural point guard. He's 29 (Porzingis surprisingly is 27; it feels like he's been around longer than that).

My main concern is they now have three big men now with questionable durability ... if they can juggle that properly, hopefully they're all healthy come playoff time. If not ... yikes.

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Horford played 69 and 63 games last 2 years. Durability isn’t really the concern with him, it’s more about how fresh his legs are by the spring. Hopefully, KP can stay healthy enough to help in that regard.