I've wanted them to draft a TE or WR every year since at least like 2015. Saw a projection of Wise for White. In that time, they took a guy most people thought would go in the 4th or 5th (and looks like a bust at this point), and Harry.The weaponz argument is fine, but like... what offensive player could they have drafted with either of their last 2 picks who would have projected to be a significant upgrade this year?
Definitely not a TE or RB. Which leaves a bunch of ~ok WR. Would any of them be significant upgrades over JuJu, Parker & Bourne this year?
My theory on the Pats offense is that Gesicki will be a TE in name only. In terms of actual usage, he's going to be the slot receiver replacement for Meyers. They'll call him a TE, but he won't be lining up on the end of the line to block. So, TE, and especially in-line blocking TE, is a real area of team need. Henry can line up in line but he is more receiver than blocker. So I would not have been surprised to see the Pats grab a TE on day 2. On the other hand, they have plenty of opportunity to grab one today, so I am not concerned.I would be willing to bet no more than 2 of the top 8 end up better than either Gesicki or Henry, decent change none of them are. We have good TEs, I'm baffled by people acting like Dalton Kincaid and Luke Musgrave are locks to be better than either of those guys.
Also, let's point out the obvious... no WR or TE makes us competitive with BUF or KC, they have elite QBs, we don't, we aren't beating them with our offense scoring a ton of points, if we want to compete a big part of it will be defense, and that's a big part of where BUF in particular has killed us, we can't cover Diggs or Knox and we didn't ahve the speed and pass rush to contain and/or sack Allen.
What seems to stand out about these 3 guys is athleticism. Is BB evolving (or has he evolved) away from where he was early in his Pats tenure, when the focus was more on fit? Or is he just finding athletic fits?Psst. *whispers* The WRs day 3... some of them are pretty good. And the RBs too. And there are a couple of OTs... and, oh yeah, some really good IOL prospects too!
A+ because the first two picks are A+s and the third one makes a ton of sense. I weight based on likely impact and ceilings and they got two guys with all-pro or pro-bowl kind of traits.
You got a top 5-6-7 pick at 17 and added a 4th. You got a top 30 pick at 46. Both are valuable positions and could change the defense. When Phillips leaves and Peppers goes you will have Mapu. I love this so much. This is so much better than last year imo.
Yes of course there is. Use the four fourth rounders and then if you feel like you’ve met all your needs, trade the rest of your picks for future picks. They still have needs on the OL - particularly tackle. They can draft a bunch here and trust that one or two of them pan out. They also need a TE and help at WR. Still lots of work to do.My theory on the Pats offense is that Gesicki will be a TE in name only. In terms of actual usage, he's going to be the slot receiver replacement for Meyers. They'll call him a TE, but he won't be lining up on the end of the line to block. So, TE, and especially in-line blocking TE, is a real area of team need. Henry can line up in line but he is more receiver than blocker. So I would not have been surprised to see the Pats grab a TE on day 2. On the other hand, they have plenty of opportunity to grab one today, so I am not concerned.
The only other offensive position where I think I would have liked to see a day 1 pick is OT. But, there again, maybe they didn't care for the available options. Maybe they have confidence in their current personnel, who were not well served. I think I want to see how the rest of the draft plays out before getting too concerned about the early focus on defense.
What seems to stand out about these 3 guys is athleticism. Is BB evolving (or has he evolved) away from where he was early in his Pats tenure, when the focus was more on fit? Or is he just finding athletic fits?
Edit: The Pats have made 3 picks and they have 9 day 3 picks: 4 4ths, 4 6ths,1 7th. How many of these do you think they will make? Is there a case for them standing pat and using all 4 fourths?
Agreed. Marcus Jones is a good example of using a 3rd on a guy who may never be a full-time starter but who has provided value. You obviously need guys to develop into starters but you also can’t afford to Joey Gallo drafts either. I have no idea about Mapu but the Dugger experience has me far more receptive to a pick like this than I was before.So the Moody and Mapu picks have me thinking-if only like a third of third round picks make it as starters it is in fact a bad use of resources to use a third on someone who has a clear role on your game day roster for the entire rookie contract? Obviously there’s a limit to that-if you can easily get as good a player later or as a udfa then it surely is a waste-but if mapu is a high level special teamer and back up safety maybe that’s a good use of the pick
I think just because they've missed some good opportunities in the past doesn't mean they should exacerbate their mistakes by drafting for "need" this year when their options aren't necessarily difference maker.I've wanted them to draft a TE or WR every year since at least like 2015. Saw a projection of Wise for White. In that time, they took a guy most people thought would go in the 4th or 5th (and looks like a bust at this point), and Harry.
I'd just like to know the plan. I have confidence in Belichick, but it's hard to see this offense being anything other than one of the worst in the conference.
I think they could easily justify four 4ths.Edit: The Pats have made 3 picks and they have 9 day 3 picks: 4 4ths, 4 6ths,1 7th. How many of these do you think they will make? Is there a case for them standing pat and using all 4 fourths?
I wouldn't put any weight on those projections; some experts were projecting McCourty to be nothing more than a special teams ace. And chances are high that a 2nd round pick turns out to be a rotational player; the bust rates on 2nd rounders is always much higher than people realize. Judon is at his peak now and will be entering his decline years soon, so finding a strong edge rusher at this point in the draft would have a lot of value.I've wanted them to draft a TE or WR every year since at least like 2015. Saw a projection of Wise for White. In that time, they took a guy most people thought would go in the 4th or 5th (and looks like a bust at this point), and Harry.
I'd just like to know the plan. I have confidence in Belichick, but it's hard to see this offense being anything other than one of the worst in the conference.
I would like to see them make the picks. I think there's still decent depth at OL, WR, TE and DB. We need more athletes. Go get some RAS.I think they could easily justify four 4ths.
Think of all the different positions people have complained about them not drafting, yet.
Slot WR/outside WR/TE/OT/OG/C/RB, plus DT/LB/P etc. They could use a player at all those positions so why not? It's a deep but not particularly top heavy draft so go grab a guy or 2 from each position.
Or trade a 4th for a 3rd next year if anyone is still dumb enough to do those trades.
Great post.Better than Gesicki? He couldn't get open with Hill and Waddle dragging defenses attention on every play. And Gesicki and Henry might actually be the worst top 2 tight ends when it comes to blocking, a huge part of their job, in the entire league. Arookie TE may not cone in and drop Gronk receiving numbers, but a bunch of them aren't literal turnstiles either.
I have no idea why anyone has faith in our offensive line, and that doesn't seem to be getting any better. Then we get to wide receiver. Folks were telling me Meyers was really good, the Pats disagreed and let him walk for the same money they gave Agholor, who sucks complete ass.
We all know what's coming. Defense will play well, make plays, keep them in the game against middle tier or lower teams. Awesome, meanwhile we'll be here debating whether Mac sucks or not week in week out, as he is running for his life, hoping some retread gets open in under 5 seconds. The defense is going to be staring at short fields, because our offense can't do a damn thing.
The worst part is I love their fucking draft picks. LOVE THEM. I just have no fucking idea what the plan is to actually compete, unless it's to run our the string with Mac, build a defensive team and move on when they find a QB they like. It's a plan, I guess, but one that comes with crazy long odds in today's NFL.
I am a very, very long time season ticket holder, ill be there, ill root them on, but damn, it's 2023, not 1992. The game us different and folks simply need to look at the teams in the playoffs last year to figure out what works and what doesn't.
I don't get what you mean by "franchise strategy." The Patriots lack top end talent both on offense and defense. They got two potential blue chip prospects in this draft, and there are some analysts who think Mapu could be that good as well. What should the "strategy" have been? It's a bad WR class.The draft picks, in and of themselves, are very good.
The draft, in terms of franchise strategy, is bewildering.
There are still linemen left in the draft who are good and the Pats have traditionally been good at identifying players at that position. They had some problems with the line last year but it wasn't an abomination and they've had an above average line almost every year BB has been coach. That's why I have faith.I have no idea why anyone has faith in our offensive line, and that doesn't seem to be getting any better.
Option 3. The goal of the draft is to add players who can help you win now and over the next four years and the ones that fit that bill in the draft happened to be defensive players.It’s been said many times it’s not what the Patriots say, it’s what they do. They said it wasn’t coaching that made the offense bad last year, but they have failed to materially upgrade the players while completely changing the coaching on the offensive side of the ball.
In my uneducated view then, two possible conclusions stand out:
1. BB knows the coaching completely and utterly sucked last year and is expecting a big leap forward - OR -
2. BB thinks the offense is inevitably uncompetitive in the AFC with Mac Jones under center, so it’s ritual sacrifice (or tanking) and they will draft a new QB from a better draft spot and a better QB class in 2024.
So I guess I am preparing for a wide range of outcomes for 2023. But we still have Day 3 to go, and 4 months until actual games start, so I’m going to try to chill out.
Edit: Rereading it, this post has only a tenuous relationship with the thread topic. To tie it back, I guess the picks have been very good so far. I voted B+, as I’m trying not to get worked up over the fact that they haven’t picked even one offensive player yet.
I'm not necessarily against BPA, and like both picks in this draft significantly better than their 2022 counterparts, but am frustrated that an obvious weakness hasn't been addressed in a long time.I think just because they've missed some good opportunities in the past doesn't mean they should exacerbate their mistakes by drafting for "need" this year when their options aren't necessarily difference maker.
Mostly just willing to let the rest of the draft play out, though. They aren't close enough to a title to be drafting basically anything but the BPA who is a scheme fit at all times.
Yeah, I’m wondering if the Pats’ thinking is:I also voted A+ earlier. DJs 11th and 28th guy and then considering the positions it’s an A+. Pats are in BPA situation. I don’t like Mac but he is serviceable with a great BB D giving him tons of opportunities and an NFL OC.
I also think part of the answer to #2 is.... there aren't any elite weapons readily available to them. Not many if any for trade, and prices high, not many if any in this draft.Yeah, I’m wondering if the Pats’ thinking is:
1) Mac is fine. Not great, but capable enough with a lot of options.
2) Absent an elite QB, it’s not worth investing in elite weapons he won’t make the most of anyway. In that case …
3) Build a fast, a ball-hawking, versatile defense that slow the AFC’s top offenses.
4) Reinstitute some variation on the 2021 offense – put up decent points, spread it around, have enough of a running game to chew clock and limit opponents’ TOP.
Will it work? No idea. But if so, this is probably how you do it.
Agreed. Juice isn’t worth the squeeze. That’s part of the investment point.I also think part of the answer to #2 is.... there aren't any elite weapons readily available to them. Not many if any for trade, and prices high, not many if any in this draft.
also, for all the talk about how bad our WR corps is (it's not), we have a bunch of #2 guys (some #3) and a highly drafted project. We also have 2 receiving TEs.I don't think the team's approach to WR's was due to Mac's limitations. There were few if any opportunities to upgrade the position this offseason. Free agent market was barely anything. Draft was considered weak in these positions. And the defense had holes as well. Maybe they didn't manifest themselves as often as the holes on offense, but they were there and some players have since left or retired, or will be potentially be leaving after this season anyway. It does seem as the team's brain trust is treating the roster as a multiyear remodeling project, but maybe they can be good enough to sneak into the playoffs.
This.I don’t think their defense is at a level that allows them to contend with a mediocre offense. They squeezed into the playoffs with a top 5 defense and a serviceable offense in 2021 and didn’t look like they belonged on the same field as the opponent because the QB played out of his mind. Ball control, keep the score down isn’t how teams win anymore.
You don't get a great offense by slapping some weapons around Mac Jones, though. Especially not those that are actually available.This.
The top rated defense in the league last year, San Fran, gave up 44 to the Chiefs in the regular season, and 31 to Philly in the playoffs. The Jets were the #4 defense in the NFL last year, and finished 7-10 because they couldn't score points. Great offenses in 2023 will beat great defenses.
What bunch of #2 guys? Juju? When has Bourne been a #2? The guy has had 50 catches in a season 1 time in his career (2021 with the Pats) and is coming off a 35 catch season and FTR, I am a big Bourne guy. Parker's last 4 seasons reception totals have dropped from 72-63-40-31, and he just turned 30 years old. Tyquan hasnt proven himself a #2. Is Agholor still on the roster? He fucking blows.also, for all the talk about how bad our WR corps is (it's not), we have a bunch of #2 guys (some #3) and a highly drafted project. We also have 2 receiving TEs.
The place we could use an upgrade is a true #1 WR/ game changer. There hasn't been a real opportunity to trade for one, and even the best guys in the draft don't really seem to fit that profile.
I'm not looking for a great offense. I think this has the potential to be a bottom 5 offense. I'll settle for mediocre.You don't get a great offense by slapping some weapons around Mac Jones, though. Especially not those that are actually available.
They were 17th in points scored last year (albeit 26th in yards) despite... everything that transpired last year. Don't really see any reason to think they'll be worse next year or that incremental improvements to the defense wouldn't be just as valuable as incremental improvements to the offense.I'm not looking for a great offense. I think this has the potential to be a bottom 5 offense. I'll settle for mediocre.
And bottom line, I put basically no faith in the "it's a bad class" takes. Justin Jefferson was the #5 wide receiver taken in his class. The 2019 WR class was considered bad too, which is why the first WR taken was Hollywood Brown at #25, then the Pats took Harry at 31. But wait, what's that, a few teams took shots in round 2 on guys, and voila, Deebo at 36, AJ Brown at 51 and Metcalf at 64.
You'll certainly never find any weapons if you don't actually try, so I guess it's one way to do it.
They scored a boatload of defensive / ST TDsThey were 17th in points scored last year (albeit 26th in yards) despite... everything that transpired last year. Don't really see any reason to think they'll be worse next year or that incremental improvements to the defense wouldn't be just as valuable as incremental improvements to the offense.
You're underselling just how bad Jonnu was.What bunch of #2 guys? Juju? When has Bourne been a #2? The guy has had 50 catches in a season 1 time in his career (2021 with the Pats) and is coming off a 35 catch season and FTR, I am a big Bourne guy. Parker's last 4 seasons reception totals have dropped from 72-63-40-31, and he just turned 30 years old. Tyquan hasnt proven himself a #2. Is Agholor still on the roster? He fucking blows.
Even if I call all those guys #2's, it's still a bad receiving corps, and I don't understand how anyone can argue differently. It's bad, it's not good, and compared to every playoff team in the league last year, except maybe the Giants, its fucking dreadful.
Gesicki and Henry cannot block. Henry has gone from 60 catches to 50 to 41 over the last 3 seasons. Gesicki's blocking is so bad that Miami could only put him on the field for 45% of their offensive snaps, and instead gave 57% of the offensive snaps to Durham Smythe at tight end. Gesicki had 32 catches for 362 yards and 5tds last season. The year before he came to New England, Jonnu had 41 for 448 and 8td's. Folks were excited about his pass catching ability, but once he got here, and Bill realized he couldn't block...What do we think Bill is going to do after Gesicki blows multiple blocking assignments early in the season.
This is a bad receiving corps, and in the case of the tight ends, they might be able to catch, but we're going to need a ball control offense given the dearth of actual weapons we have, and they can't block anyone.
See, who needs offense?They scored a boatload of defensive / ST TDs
Seems to be a lot of kudos on the players we got. Gonzalez was an A/A+ for many. White seemed popular. Daniel Jeremiah loved Mapu on Day 2. Boutte was seen as a good pick.Isaiah Bolden is Bucky Brooks' favorite Day 3 pick.