Absolutely
I think this is parsing things too finely. I think "Sounds like you have landed" is something BB might reasonably have said to Daboll.
You are making an implicit assumption along racial lines here that you haven't supported with anything but conjecture. (White former players are willing/able to put in the work, not so much for black former players). Maybe that's true, maybe not, but it ought to be discussed directly and with awareness of evidence (or lack thereof), rather than being snuck in implicitly.
Could just be posturing.
There's no way the NFL will ok a coaching hire of someone in the midst of suing them for hiring practices. Flores's NFL coaching career is very likely done. He does stand to make a significant amount from this lawsuit if his allegations are proven though, as he could easily claim damages of 25-30x the average HC's salary, assuming a lengthy career. After all, he got fired after 3 seasons of team play around .500, despite a ton of holes and limited QB play. He's clearly good enough to coach for a long time. He'll likely end up in college ball or the CFL in the meantime.
Reread the original tweet again. It’s not real, but it’s really funny.
Think of what Invermectin is actually supposed to be used for
As someone who has spent his career defending class actions, I can say there is close to zero chance the case gets certified: each hiring decision depends on unique facts and circumstances and the evidence would differ. Only way to get certification would be if Flores got past a motion to dismiss, got into discovery, and found a smoking gun memo or emails that said the Rooney Rule was entirely a sham, did not need to be followed, could and should be disregarded with no consequences etc. Even the dopes at the NFL are not stupid enough to put something like that in writing.
Exactly! Stanford grad John Elway thinks that dealing with the side effects of a useless treatment for what was at the time a non-existent pandemic makes him look better than being hung over. Thurber, Wodehouse, and Sturges are pikers compared to Kevin Grandheer.
Great screen name and interesting post. Unlikely to see the light of day, but I imagine there could be emails or texts from a team front office type to NFL HQ along the lines of "My owner is hiring X, but we're good with Rooney as long as we bring Y in for an interview next week, right?"
I think the pay-the-coach-to-tank angle is going to blow up.
This isn't my legal area but the chances of this going to trial is miniscule. There are a bunch of legal defenses but even if it gets to the eve of trial there's a very good chance the defendants just pay out a yuge amount of money to avoid a trial. There will also be confidentiality agreements in place restricting the publication of these materials out of court so the amount of high publicity stuff maybe dissapointing
I agree.
And on ESPN pretty much unanimous support for Flores and his cause. This isn’t going away and I really respect him for what he’s doing here.
I agree, there are issues with class certification. Those issues have been discussed already in the thread.
Nate Solder, among others, have already said they have his back.
Right, but would they have existed, or gotten him fired, if he were not black. That's the $64,000 question.
Not really Eddie. My point was simply most players do not want to be coaches so citing 70% black league is not the be all end all. My guess, based off my own industry, is that the pipelines for a white person wanting to go into coaching would be much more developed than a black player. From the folks I know who have made careers in coaching (few in football) is that many of them spend years in very low paying jobs, moving from place to place for a better job or following a mentor as they rise, etc. So most of the people who put in that work say over the last twenty years or, better yet, were given opportunities to put in that work over the last 20 years or longer were white. I would imagine a lot of good could be done - if it hasnt already - in bulking up those kinds of opportunities for minority candidates in college, developmental leagues and beyond. Those would likely do a lot more good in helping create opportunities for a whole new generation of folks to have access to these kinds of positions. It is probably slower and deeply unsexy work, but the payoff over time would be high and it would be cheap for the NFL or NCAA (if they arent already doing it).
He had a team in 2019 that was designed to go 0-16 and got 5 wins out of it. Then he was above .500 the other 2 years. Most coaches would get more time.
For damages or for injunctive relief that includes damages (like certain kinds of backplay claims or theories) Walmart is a huge hurdle. For injunctive relief claims counsel may be able to fashion a type of relief by at least some of the defendants (the league) that would meet Walmart’s commonality requirement at least as to some subset of the class. Very thin needle to thread.
Not so sure about that. He built an offense to suit his stop-gap veteran QB in Tua’s rookie year. He even went and recruited Fitzy’s old OC out of retirement.
Agree 100%. They outperformed expectations in 2019. And maybe in 2020. 2021 was a significant step back covered up by a king winning streak against and opponents.
The sports radio guys here in Maine - not as bad as Boston area, but not the most enlightened bunch - said much the same thing. They are also honing in, without really knowing it, on the structural racism at work and how the NFL pays cynical lip service by emblazoning the end zone with message and putting stickers on helmets. They openly talked about the glass ceiling for black coaches - basically they can't advance beyond coordinator, and there is a reason for it.
It's fair to have differences of opinion on Flores' coaching acumen. However, on the bolded, I think you're significantly downplaying what happened after he was fired. Normally, organizations just say that they felt a different direction was needed, and so made the difficult decision to let the coach go. Instead, the Dolphins deliberately leaked a bunch of stories about how difficult Flores was to work with, leaks that were directly damaging to Flores's own career prospects.
Flores probably would have gotten close to half a dozen DC offers if he kept his mouth shut and moved on from the Dolphins. Why should he settle for one now?
I can certainly see how if you’re Brian Flores, you take it as a personal assault on your character and an attempt to prevent you from getting another job.
I mean arguing that Flores trying to "win at all costs" is a reason why he should have been fired is . . . something. You are simultaneously killing him for not making the playoffs three years in a row, and also for not sticking with Tua when he had (apparently) made the judgment that a different QB gave him a better chance to win.
Also, Flores’s goal probably isn’t to spend the next five years litigating with the NFL. Asserting a class claim opens the door for a negotiated class resolution, even if a determined defendant could defeat certification.
This aspect does get a bit lost in the overall case.
The larger point is that Tua, or any QB within those parameters, wasn’t put in the position to be successful, regardless if you think he’s any good or not.
I think we can all express a healthy skepticism, now, about what was being reported.
Others may not find this significant, but the team was 29-19-1 ATS during Flores’ tenure. The only teams that have been better are GB and Buffalo.
It just sounds contrived and stuck up, when Flores himself at the time was a head coach. Minor quibble, but why not just, "Bill"? It's like one of those old medical dramas where half the dialogue is, "what do you think, doctor?" "I don't know, doctor..."
However he got there, Miami finished the year with 9 wins. Was that a significant step back? It wasn't what the team and fans wanted, but it was exactly as expected (pre-season over/under was exactly 9 wins).
