Technically he said 70% to Brady, maybe BB is worth 29%I’m shocked Shawn Springs feels BB gets as much as thirty percent of the credit!
Hey, SI did something worth reading!Thanks for linking that @BaseballJones , very enjoyable read.
Crazy unlucky run as well. That Denver debacle, the NYG superbowls, Caldwell dropping the pass and 12-men on the field in '06, that idiotic NYJ loss, Brady's knee in '08. The 2 best teams (maybe 3) in the 18-year run faled to win it all.Just for the record...this nine year period produced...
- a 110-34 regular season record (.764)
- a 9-8 playoff record (.529)
- 8 division titles
- 2 AFC championships
- 5 trips to the AFCCG
I mean, that would be a phenomenal run for any team. But those were the "dark ages" within the larger Patriots' dynasty.
Crazy.
Sometimes the best team just doesn’t win...Crazy unlucky run as well. That Denver debacle, the NYG superbowls, Caldwell dropping the pass and 12-men on the field in '06, that idiotic NYJ loss, Brady's knee in '08. The 2 best teams (maybe 3) in the 18-year run faled to win it all.
Why is he wearing USC pants?Sometimes the best team just doesn’t win...
Alge Crumpler’s end zone drop was such an ominous sign that I overlooked at the time. They just completely melted down. That 2010 team was damn good.I'll never get how they lost that Jets game. The biggest mystery of the entire era is that game.
The offense was damn good, but that defense kinda sucked aside from generating turnovers. I feel like they never really looked as dominant as their record throughout the season, even if they had some impressive wins along the way. Made many bad/mediocre QBs look good.Alge Crumpler’s end zone drop was such an ominous sign that I overlooked at the time. They just completely melted down. That 2010 team was damn good.
I dunno. They finished like gang busters:The offense was damn good, but that defense kinda sucked aside from generating turnovers. I feel like they never really looked as dominant as their record throughout the season, even if they had some impressive wins along the way. Made many bad/mediocre QBs look good.
Man - just turned it on. What a hyped up match up and the Pats D came out so strong. That third down stop by Gay was videogamey in how quick he turned from his guy to make the stop.2004 playoff game vs. Indy is always a joy.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uroQ5DpyPLc&ab_channel=JohnSnyder
My wife and I watched that game in the middle of the night in Cervinia, Italy. I mark my life by where I was during some significant Patriots game. I watched a previous Patriots v Chiefs playoff matchup back in 2016 (2015 season) in Kyoto, Japan.I’m watching the Championship game against KC right now on nfl network. We’re in OT. I miss Tom.
These threads occasionally give me the chance to repost my all time favorite SI cover.2004 playoff game vs. Indy is always a joy.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uroQ5DpyPLc&ab_channel=JohnSnyder
The amount of absolute ownership the Pats would have had over the Colts had the 2006 AFCCG lead not been blown would have been off the charts. Would have been 3 high profile and embarrassing playoff eliminations in 4 years. Still annoyed by the BS OPI on Troy Brown as we were about to put that game away in the first half after the Asante pick 6.The 2003 AFC championship vs Indy is an even better rewatch IMO. The Pats made Indy look absolutely awful for most of that game.
And Brady would be going for ring # 8 and Manning would only have 1.The amount of absolute ownership the Pats would have had over the Colts had the 2006 AFCCG lead not been blown would have been off the charts. Would have been 3 high profile and embarrassing playoff eliminations in 4 years. Still annoyed by the BS OPI on Troy Brown as we were about to put that game away in the first half after the Asante pick 6.
We ended up not hearing from Demetrius Walker, although it sounds like he's doing OK:These threads occasionally give me the chance to repost my all time favorite SI cover.
View attachment 38487
On the outside looking in, people maybe had different expectations for me in high school. For me, though, I was happy. In my sophomore year at Fontana (CA) High, I embraced who I was and realized I was a Division I player. I made the decision to transfer to JSerra for my junior year, where I got to play against the Wear twins, Klay Thompson and a bunch of D-I players. After my junior year, I transferred to St. Mary’s in Phoenix and finally won the state championship I wanted my entire high school career.
@rodderick is right, though - so much of that streak was turnover-driven. The D forced 20 turnovers during that streak, and the offense only turned it over once (the whole year, the D forced 38 turnovers and the O only turned it over 10 times). The 2010 D was a wretched 30th in yards per drive and only 16th in points per drive. And in the playoff game, a rare Brady pick, a weird not-technically-a-turnover-but-basically-a-turnover on the Chung play, and the D coming up small and not getting any takeaways. And then the same thing happened the next year - the D had forced turnovers in 13 straight games, and then dried up in the Super Bowl. Relying on turnovers is a tough way to live.I dunno. They finished like gang busters:
45-24 @ Lions
45-3 Jets
36-7 @ Bears
31-27 Packers (Matt Flynn so that was a poor performance)
34-3 @ Bills
38-7 Dolphins
They also had 4 double digit wins before that stretch too, including Gronk’s coming out party at Heinz.
I wasn’t expecting a laugher against the Jets like the 45-3 game but I certainly wasn’t expecting such a terrible performance either. I’ll always irrationally blame Welker for creating that distraction. Bad mojo all around culminating in that Chung debacle.
Not disagreeing but turnover differential is pretty much a hallmark of the BB/TB era. We forced turnovers and we protected the ball very well. The 2010 team seemed to fit that mold pretty well. Definitely agree that they probably weren’t as good as the record or margin of victory indicated. Matt Flynn certainly moved the ball with ease, which was jarring to watch at the time.@rodderick is right, though - so much of that streak was turnover-driven. The D forced 20 turnovers during that streak, and the offense only turned it over once (the whole year, the D forced 38 turnovers and the O only turned it over 10 times). The 2010 D was a wretched 30th in yards per drive and only 16th in points per drive. And in the playoff game, a rare Brady pick, a weird not-technically-a-turnover-but-basically-a-turnover on the Chung play, and the D coming up small and not getting any takeaways. And then the same thing happened the next year - the D had forced turnovers in 13 straight games, and then dried up in the Super Bowl. Relying on turnovers is a tough way to live.
That's true, but I think there's a difference between "we take care of the football and create turnovers" and "our defense is probably the worst in the league if you take away the takeaways," which is where they were at in the early part of the 2010s.Not disagreeing but turnover differential is pretty much a hallmark of the BB/TB era. We forced turnovers and we protected the ball very well. The 2010 team seemed to fit that mold pretty well. Definitely agree that they probably weren’t as good as the record or margin of victory indicated. Matt Flynn certainly moved the ball with ease, which was jarring to watch at the time.
I'd always rather have a team with just a solid defense that gets stops without the need for takeaways, than a team that gets a lot of them, but relies on them. Because in that big game where they aren't getting them, it's going to go very poorly.That's true, but I think there's a difference between "we take care of the football and create turnovers" and "our defense is probably the worst in the league if you take away the takeaways," which is where they were at in the early part of the 2010s.
Yup. And that's exactly what happened. Offense couldn't get it going and defense got smoked by Sanchez/Braylon when they desperately needed a stop. With normal turnover luck, that's probably an 11-12 win team that's solid but not nearly as good as the 14-2 juggernaut that they appeared to be. Still shouldn't have lost to the Jets in any event though. That game was just terrible all around.I'd always rather have a team with just a solid defense that gets stops without the need for takeaways, than a team that gets a lot of them, but relies on them. Because in that big game where they aren't getting them, it's going to go very poorly.
Looks like he's at the Coliseum, too.Why is he wearing USC pants?
To play devil's advocate, the last two years were a little rough. Yes, of course, they won the SB in his second to last year, but defense and the running game were huge that season, and the offense was not in any way dominant. That 13 points was enough to win the last Brady SB tells us a lot about the weapons Tom had and did not have. And his frustration was obvious in his last season in NE. So yes, there is huge overstatement in that piece and sentence. Still, it's not hard to see Tom assessing who might have been coming back last year and wanting to play with a more talented group in his last few seasons in the NFL.This passage in the NYTimes' story about the SB, with respect to Brady's last 'few' years in NE struck me as pretty funny. I bet every QB in football history would like to struggle as much as Brady did in the last 3-4 years in NE (three SB appearances, 2 wins).
The quote:
"It is not hard to figure out why Tom Brady wanted to play with the Buccaneers.
After struggling to get anything going with a mediocre group of wide receivers in his last few seasons with New England, Brady saw limitless opportunities in..."
Funny thing is, beyond the stupidity of including anything beyond last year, people were genuinely talking about if they had one of the great WR corps ever early in the 2019 season.This passage in the NYTimes' story about the SB, with respect to Brady's last 'few' years in NE struck me as pretty funny. I bet every QB in football history would like to struggle as much as Brady did in the last 3-4 years in NE (three SB appearances, 2 wins).
The quote:
"It is not hard to figure out why Tom Brady wanted to play with the Buccaneers.
After struggling to get anything going with a mediocre group of wide receivers in his last few seasons with New England, Brady saw limitless opportunities in..."
That actually would have been a pretty awesome offense, had it all come together and stayed together.Funny thing is, beyond the stupidity of including anything beyond last year, people were genuinely talking about if they had one of the great WR corps ever early in the 2019 season.
Antonio Brown at the #1, a revitalized Josh Gordon at the #2 and Edelman in the slot was a mouth-watering display of talent and production. Dorsett was a great fit as a 4th WR and they had a 1st round pick at WR waiting in the wings.
The full Michele/Burkhead/White trio was available, and there's a potential Gronk return on the horizon!
It fell apart fast, that's for sure.
I think the weird low-scoring Super Bowl, and the struggles the following year, makes it seem like the bolded was true, but it's absolutely false to say the offense was not good that year. They were 5th in offensive DVOA. Other than TDs, Brady's stats that year overall were very similar (only slightly worse) to the stats he has this year.To play devil's advocate, the last two years were a little rough. Yes, of course, they won the SB in his second to last year, but defense and the running game were huge that season, and the offense was not in any way dominant. That 13 points was enough to win the last Brady SB tells us a lot about the weapons Tom had and did not have. And his frustration was obvious in his last season in NE. So yes, there is huge overstatement in that piece and sentence. Still, it's not hard to see Tom assessing who might have been coming back last year and wanting to play with a more talented group in his last few seasons in the NFL.
The above paragraph is of course true, BUT ALSO, and perhaps more importantly: Brady left because the Patriots wouldn't give him the three-year contract he wanted and asked for. Three years, 80-ish mill probably would've gotten it done - and would've been a bargain. BB refused to commit the team to a 40-something QB for that long. That is when this all really kicked off, IMO. That Brady wound up arguably better off going to a team that had drafted well enough to surround him with a formidable array of weapons was a benefit and, by the post-2019 off-season, clearly a draw.I think the weird low-scoring Super Bowl, and the struggles the following year, makes it seem like the bolded was true, but it's absolutely false to say the offense was not good that year. They were 5th in offensive DVOA. Other than TDs, Brady's stats that year overall were very similar (only slightly worse) to the stats he has this year.
And in the playoffs specifically, Brady actually was much better in the divisional and AFC champ games than he was in the divisional and NFC champ game this year.
Brady left because he knows he only has a few more years in his career and wanted to maximize his chances at more rings (the obviously correct decision in retrospect). And he probably was a little tired of BB/the "Patriot Way" at that point and I'm sure there was an appeal to living in Florida and playing for Arians who, by all accounts, basically just lets Brady do whatever he wants. But somehow for a lot of media members that has turned into "the Pats offense wasn't good for years before Brady left" which is demonstrably incorrect.
The 2018 team was really a weird Jekyll-and-Hyde group, both offensively and defensively. Counting playoffs, they had 7 games where they scored at least 37 points; they also had 4 where they scored 13 or fewer. The O was fine when they had Gordon and Edelman, but it struggled before Edelman come off suspension and before Gordon got ramped up / after he got suspended. Overall they slipped from 2.61 points per drive in 2017, best in the NFL, to 2.27, 8th, and that dropoff showed up as inconsistency week-to-week rather than a general decline.I think the weird low-scoring Super Bowl, and the struggles the following year, makes it seem like the bolded was true, but it's absolutely false to say the offense was not good that year. They were 5th in offensive DVOA. Other than TDs, Brady's stats that year overall were very similar (only slightly worse) to the stats he has this year.
Yeah, the Super Bowl wasn't a great offensive game, but the O was really good in the preceding two games, and the "D and run game carried them" narrative is way overblown.And in the playoffs specifically, Brady actually was much better in the divisional and AFC champ games than he was in the divisional and NFC champ game this year.
Yup. 4th in passing DVOA too. This narrative that the running game won them the title in 2018 (which even the coaching staff seems to have bought into) makes little sense to me. Yeah, they struggled a little down the stretch in the regular season after losing Gordon, but their WR corps was Edelman, Patterson, Dorset and the ghost of Chris Hogan. I think Brady got a lot out of what he had that season and they won their first two playoff games throwing the ball.I think the weird low-scoring Super Bowl, and the struggles the following year, makes it seem like the bolded was true, but it's absolutely false to say the offense was not good that year. They were 5th in offensive DVOA. Other than TDs, Brady's stats that year overall were very similar (only slightly worse) to the stats he has this year.
And in the playoffs specifically, Brady actually was much better in the divisional and AFC champ games than he was in the divisional and NFC champ game this year.
Brady left because he knows he only has a few more years in his career and wanted to maximize his chances at more rings (the obviously correct decision in retrospect). And he probably was a little tired of BB/the "Patriot Way" at that point and I'm sure there was an appeal to living in Florida and playing for Arians who, by all accounts, basically just lets Brady do whatever he wants. But somehow for a lot of media members that has turned into "the Pats offense wasn't good for years before Brady left" which is demonstrably incorrect.
Right. On the one hand you could make the argument that a lot of the offensive struggles in 2019 were out of their control (Gronk retiring, Brown essentially forcing the team to cut him, Gordon's issues, Sanu turning into a pumpkin) but on the other hand they made their own bed in that regard due to their complete and total inability to draft a top-tier wide receiver (or TE after Gronk).The 2018 team was really a weird Jekyll-and-Hyde group, both offensively and defensively. Counting playoffs, they had 7 games where they scored at least 37 points; they also had 4 where they scored 13 or fewer. The O was fine when they had Gordon and Edelman, but it struggled before Edelman come off suspension and before Gordon got ramped up / after he got suspended. Overall they slipped from 2.61 points per drive in 2017, best in the NFL, to 2.27, 8th, and that dropoff showed up as inconsistency week-to-week rather than a general decline.
And in 2019, the offense was fine half the year, and then fell off a cliff down the stretch once they started playing Harry and a hobbled Sanu instead of Gordon and Dorsett / Meyers. Obviously we saw those struggles continue into 2020 as well.
Even with all of that, they would have been better in 2019 if not for the injuries to the OL + Develin. Andrews barely played, Wynn missed a ton of time, everyone was hurt at one time or another.Right. On the one hand you could make the argument that a lot of the offensive struggles in 2019 were out of their control (Gronk retiring, Brown essentially forcing the team to cut him, Gordon's issues, Sanu turning into a pumpkin) but on the other hand they made their own bed in that regard due to their complete and total inability to draft a top-tier wide receiver (or TE after Gronk).
They would have run the ball better - and they did run the ball better later in the year after Wynn returned from injury. However, it did not help the passing game, which continued to deteriorate after Gordon went on IR.Even with all of that, they would have been better in 2019 if not for the injuries to the OL + Develin. Andrews barely played, Wynn missed a ton of time, everyone was hurt at one time or another.
Right and I assume there would have been some trickle down effect to the passing game. I know running effectively doesn’t affect play action passing but I would assume better pure pass blocking would have helped (Newhouse was a turnstile). Top 5 offense? No. League average? I think so.They would have run the ball better - and they did run the ball better later in the year after Wynn returned from injury. However, it did not help the passing game, which continued to deteriorate after Gordon went on IR.
Wynn was back and Newhouse was on the bench for the worst stretch though. The improved pass-blocking didn't matter with Brady throwing to Sanu and Harry.Right and I assume there would have been some trickle down effect to the passing game. I know running effectively doesn’t affect play action passing but I would assume better pure pass blocking would have helped (Newhouse was a turnstile). Top 5 offense? No. League average? I think so.
True, Sanu’s ankle injury was a major killer too.Wynn was back and Newhouse was on the bench for the worst stretch though. The improved pass-blocking didn't matter with Brady throwing to Sanu and Harry.